The Athletic - College football leaders ready to discuss eight-team Playoff

[Guest]

I don't have a problem with the HFA, as the lower levels of competition do the same thing even up to the semi-finals.  Then the bitching will start being about the 5th Con Champ who has to travel...

 

and yes, that 2nd SEC team will be expected to hit the fucking road.

Edited December 12, 2018 by slorch

[Tex Pete 20,430]

40 minutes ago, bamachine said:

Either that or let each P5 conference subsidize a partner FCS conference and as a JSU fan, I would be happy.

That's all well and good, but I went to Texas and don't give a fuck about FCS schools.

The people who do can take care of them. Not our problem.

[Guest]

so bama fan wants everyone to have a Blinn...and then schedule them for games?

 

Holy fuck, just double down on the SEC idiocy.

[Anwar Namtut 344]

It should be a 16-team playoff - 10 conf champions plus 6 at-large. Sorry if Tulsa is the conference champion at 8-4 - they'll draw #1 Alabama as the #16 seed. (Full disclosure - I'm admittedly biased toward the 16-team playoff because I'm a fan of a G5 school.)

More for the realignment thread, but related - Blow up conferences and go back to 12, 10-team reasonably regional conferences, no CCG and everyone plays everyone in their conference. Some teams would have to go back to 1-AA. Teams are discouraged, but not banned from scheduling 1-AA teams (yes, I still call them that). Independents would need to join a conference. 

 

[El Squared 1,813]

30 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

How are you going to determine the best 8 teams? 

The same committee feggetry and espin shennanigans from the media hype machines.

An 8 team beauty pageant/ marketing contest is for those who crave more diving, ice dancing, and rhythmic gymnastic competitions. There's a network for that: NBC.

As for myself, I want to watch football without a committee of judges. The zebras are enough of a subjective human element in the game.

Autobids to conference winners every time over committees of  Condy Rice and other posers.

 

Edited December 12, 2018 by El Squared

[pops 7,006]

31 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

How are you going to determine the best 8 teams? 

Coaches poll?  AP?  Combo of the two?  I think when you get to 8 you aren't leaving someone out that has a legit shot at winning it all. 

I also think no poll should come out until after week 4. All preseason polls do is fuck themselves with a confirmation bias for at least a month. 

[MrPhlegm 3,413]

That’s alot of games to ask from an amateur student athlete. I guess removing conference championships would help. Bowl games would be even more meaningless, regular season games wouldn’t have the same importance either.

Urine Idoit ^^^

So in college basketball and baseball the regular season doesnt mean anything?

Idoit.

8 is NOT enough.

16 minimum.

1st round at home.

P5 Conf champs host 1st round then higher seed. Teams in same conf cant play each other in 1st round. Conferences decide champs however they want.

2nd n 3rd rotate in bowls.

OU sucks.

[Guest]

No poll should come out before December.

Fuck ESPN and radio talk shows acting like we give a fuck about who's getting screwed in the polls.

[Monster 219]

Thank you Notre Dame for excluding the Big 10 from this years 4 team invitational.    And thank you to UCF for proving that 80% of universities will never, ever, ever be invited.

Proposal's not perfect.  You still need an eye-test to determine top group of 5 team.   *cough*16 teams is better*cough*   But what they're proposing is 1000% better than what we have now.  You've got an objective selection criteria that everyone understands and requires zero eye-testing--Conference champs.  And every team in the country starts the season with the legitimate hope they could play themselves into a national championship game-.  As it fucking should be.

 

 

[rickyspub 801]

8 minutes ago, Anwar Namtut said:

It should be a 16-team playoff - 10 conf champions plus 6 at-large. Sorry if Tulsa is the conference champion at 8-4 - they'll draw #1 Alabama as the #16 seed. (Full disclosure - I'm admittedly biased toward the 16-team playoff because I'm a fan of a G5 school.)

More for the realignment thread, but related - Blow up conferences and go back to 12, 10-team reasonably regional conferences, no CCG and everyone plays everyone in their conference. Some teams would have to go back to 1-AA. Teams are discouraged, but not banned from scheduling 1-AA teams (yes, I still call them that). Independents would need to join a conference. 

 

If they are going to blow it up then the P5 need split off. ND would have to join a conference to take part. At that point you could talk about going back to smaller regional conferences, though I doubt even that logic would pass muster with the idiots running the show. Bama and Auburn sure as shit aren't signing on to be in a 10-team conference with a bunch of Sunbelt teams and Texas isn't signing on to go back to sharing a conference with Houston and Rice, much less UNT, Texas State, UTSA and UTEP.

[El Squared 1,813]

I

7 minutes ago, slorch said:

No poll should come out before December.

Fuck ESPN and radio talk shows acting like we give a fuck about who's getting screwed in the polls.

Its the same for "pre-season All American". Jeez .

Who thinks this is a real thing of value? Why not award "future participation" trophies too?

Edited December 12, 2018 by El Squared

[BabaYaga 15,305]

4 minutes ago, pops said:

I also think no poll should come out until after week 4. All preseason polls do is fuck themselves with a confirmation bias for at least a month. 

No, they are more insidious than that.  It absolutely is confirmation bias.  Start in the top ten, drop two games, get on a small winning streak at the end of the season.  You're right back in the top ten.  Start @ 25 and drop two.  Nope.  Not unless it's early and you go on a 8-10 game winning streak.  It damn sure matters these days.  Less than the BCS days. but it's not unimportant.  The darlings typically start ranked and stay ranked.  

The reason I want to see the numbers expanded is to keep the conferences from dicking over their own teams.  Fuck anyone that says LSU didn't get screwed over to make a spot for GA.  I also think we got royally fucked against OU.  We win, we're still not in the playoffs, but OU is....the whole damn game changed on that non-PI call to LJH.  We all knew we were going to score.  Everyone knew it.  We do, then trade shots back and forth.  We win.  Simple as that.  It killed a key drive and changed the entire dynamic of the game.  There are too many incentives NOT to give little pushes and nudges to top teams to see that they land in top bowl games. 

***old man yelling at clouds rant over***

[CooterBrown 18,022]

4 hours ago, AUS-97HORN said:

SEC w/ 14 teams means every fking game would have to be an SEC game....  which means no more OOC games ever, and no cupcakes at all.  

As long as Vandy and aggy are on the schedule, cupcakes will exist in the SEC.

[Buzzrock 14,936]

What the hell will we argue about in the off season?

[Monster 219]

From the article...

"As one Power 5 athletic director said, “Sometimes it feels like they’re deciding based on recruiting rankings and not the games actually played on the field.”

This rings true.  And ranking high school players has got to be the most subjective thing in a sport filled with polls and votes and eye tests.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Monster

[BabaYaga 15,305]

1 minute ago, CooterBrown said:

As long as Vandy and aggy are on the schedule, cupcakes will exist in the SEC.

I'd be fine with scheduling weaker teams if the trade off was an expanded post-season.  They do serve a purpose of allowing your team to coalesce and get the kinks out early.  Or maybe schedule one marquee OOC game?  Then save your powder for the tournament (as we see so often in the NFL, NBA, etc).

[Hagbard Celine 10,909]

1 hour ago, formermav43 said:

How are you going to determine the best 8 teams? 

My table.

[Anwar Namtut 344]

21 minutes ago, rickyspub said:

If they are going to blow it up then the P5 need split off. ND would have to join a conference to take part. At that point you could talk about going back to smaller regional conferences, though I doubt even that logic would pass muster with the idiots running the show. Bama and Auburn sure as shit aren't signing on to be in a 10-team conference with a bunch of Sunbelt teams and Texas isn't signing on to go back to sharing a conference with Houston and Rice, much less UNT, Texas State, UTSA and UTEP.

Sure - I get that. Years ago, I had the conferences all aligned with relatively reasonable (to me) conferences line-ups. Too much to remember and to put in this post.

19 minutes ago, Herpes said:

They would have to be invited first.  Can't just up and join.  

   

True - I just figured we were shotgunning stuff. Or is that just me?

[justinjc7 153]

35 minutes ago, Anwar Namtut said:

It should be a 16-team playoff - 10 conf champions plus 6 at-large. Sorry if Tulsa is the conference champion at 8-4 - they'll draw #1 Alabama as the #16 seed. (Full disclosure - I'm admittedly biased toward the 16-team playoff because I'm a fan of a G5 school.)

More for the realignment thread, but related - Blow up conferences and go back to 12, 10-team reasonably regional conferences, no CCG and everyone plays everyone in their conference. Some teams would have to go back to 1-AA. Teams are discouraged, but not banned from scheduling 1-AA teams (yes, I still call them that). Independents would need to join a conference. 

 

Me and a coworker had about a 30 minute long debate the other day about this (yeah we probably should have been working but it's a slow time of year for us accountants) but he was arguing for that exact same playoff format.  I'm not a huge fan of (to use your example) an 8-4 Tulsa getting in over a more deserving Big 12 or SEC school but I've come around on it a little bit, it's definitely preferable than what we have now because it still would assure more deserving teams make it in with the conference champs and another 6 at large teams.  

[Guest]

I know as a Red Raider, i am supposed to be accustomed to that shit, but the Herp's avatar is rather disturbing.

 

Gotdam.

[rickyspub 801]

1 minute ago, justinjc7 said:

Me and a coworker had about a 30 minute long debate the other day about this (yeah we probably should have been working but it's a slow time of year for us accountants) but he was arguing for that exact same playoff format.  I'm not a huge fan of (to use your example) an 8-4 Tulsa getting in over a more deserving Big 12 or SEC school but I've come around on it a little bit, it's definitely preferable than what we have now because it still would assure more deserving teams make it in with the conference champs and another 6 at large teams.  

That is why 8 is the sweet spot. If you go to 10 or more than the G5 will demand those spots and you'll watch a bunch of SEC teams get virtual 1st round byes against the unranked Sunbelt, MAC, and CUSA champs, while we have to play a highly ranked Michigan, Oregon, or some other really good conference runner-up.

[Hagbard Celine 10,909]

35 minutes ago, slorch said:

No poll should come out before December.

Fuck ESPN and radio talk shows acting like we give a fuck about who's getting screwed in the polls.

Polls are not needed with my system but the AP could be used as a tiebreaker once every 30 years or so.

[justinjc7 153]

1 minute ago, rickyspub said:

That is why 8 is the sweet spot. If you go to 10 or more than the G5 will demand those spots and you'll watch a bunch of SEC teams get virtual 1st round byes against the unranked Sunbelt, MAC, and CUSA champs, while we have to play a highly ranked Michigan, Oregon, or some other really good conference runner-up.

That is a good point as well.  FWIW, an 8 team playoff is what I was arguing for with him.  People say, "well if you have an 8 team playoff, people will then just argue over the 9th and 10th teams who got left out instead of the 5th and 6th teams that got left" but I disagree with that.  There's only so many teams that you can legitimately argue can on a given night beat the top team and win it all.  Could Georgia or Ohio State be the national champion?  An argument can be made.  But can Florida (currently ranked #10 in the CFP ranking)?  Absolutely not.  I feel like every year, there are more than 4 teams but less than 8 teams that can legitimately make an argument for deserving a chance to play for the championship and that's why I'm fully on board with an 8 team playoff.  

[Tex Long 4,431]

It's still a Beauty Contest.

Barring a full-participation, 7-period playoff, the next step should include the ten conference champions - no beauty there - plus, say, five at-large.

If Nort Dame, BYU and whomever else don't want to confer, the best they should get is an at-large.

[rickyspub 801]

2 minutes ago, Herpes said:

but the rankings are political and subjective, so why even have that as part of the seeding?

You just said use the BCS formula one post up...The BCS was 2 parts polls, which are political and subjective, and 1 part computers, which are also potentially political and subjective. It is going to be political and subjective no matter what format you choose. The key is to keep the playoff down to teams of a similar quality. If a Northwestern gets through on occasion, then you the #1 team gets to benefit. If you have 10+ teams then you have several teams getting an easy first round game against Tulsa or Northern Illinois and other teams getting a two-loss Michigan or Washington. 

[Anwar Namtut 344]

27 minutes ago, justinjc7 said:

Me and a coworker had about a 30 minute long debate the other day about this (yeah we probably should have been working but it's a slow time of year for us accountants) but he was arguing for that exact same playoff format.  I'm not a huge fan of (to use your example) an 8-4 Tulsa getting in over a more deserving Big 12 or SEC school but I've come around on it a little bit, it's definitely preferable than what we have now because it still would assure more deserving teams make it in with the conference champs and another 6 at large teams.  

Off topic - don't you have some year-end planning to do? Lol. Or are you not a tax accountant like me.

[Vic Mackey 47,130]

5 hours ago, CastHorn said:

That’s alot of games to ask from an amateur student athlete. I guess removing conference championships would help. Bowl games would be even more meaningless, regular season games wouldn’t have the same importance either.

Yet high school athletes who go the distance and every other classification of college football play more games than this. What's the issue?

But if you are that worried about it, then go to 11. 9 conference games and 2 OOC games to keep a lot of the rivalries alive.

[SnowAggy 154]

39 minutes ago, slorch said:

I know as a Red Raider, i am supposed to be accustomed to that shit, but the Herp's avatar is rather disturbing.

 

Gotdam.

For real.  Flashbacks to treating my Marines who got VD...YUCK!

[Hurtlocker 2,213]

6 hours ago, Machinator said:

https://theathletic.com/708538/2018/12/12/college-football-playoff-expansion-eight-team-support/

 

  Hide contents

 

 

I've been a proponent of staying with 4 and not including conference champs, because of things like Pitt potentially getting in this year, or GTech doing it the year they were 6-6.   

Love it far more than the BCS, but there are clear issues the first being 11 playoff teams have come from two conferences (representing 28 teams) who play eight conference games and 8 participants (representing 36 teams) came from three conferences who play nine.   You should be penalized for not playing top talent every week and rewarded when you do.   This is rewarding BCS schedules, which sucks.   

I'm pivoted, they can start Neines' plan next year for all I care.   

[NowThis 931]

4 hours ago, LonghornSean said:

Home -field advantage serves two purposes

- Provides a clear advantage and reward for finishing in the top 4, which would  help to limit the effect an 8-team format has on diminishing the regular season

- Mitigates the issues of fan travel.  Very few fans have the financial flexibility to travel to multiple rounds of neutral-site playoffs on short notice. At bowl sites I think you'd probably see significant numbers of empty seats, or at least a very cold ticket market, particularly with games involving Pac-12 teams.

so why not have HFA for Bama and Clemson now? Since they are the top 2 seeds of the 4 currently. 

[kopp0e 1,135]

The short story here lies in the fact a certain midwest conference has been shut out of the CFP in back to back years due to the "slimmer" configured XII...

[DeadArmadillo 907]

You wouldn't have to eliminate CCGs, but if you leave it up to the conferences to determine a champion, it could end up happening.

But that seems fair, simple, and effective.

No way it happens

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

[DeadArmadillo 907]

I agree with your first comment.  There are literally thousands of youth league commissioners that come up with playoff formats across the country.  God knows we have enough bowl games and more than enough top facilities to host said games in every region of the United States.  The market and interest is certainly there to make it happen.  I will say that the PAC 12 championship game was pathetic in terms of crowd turnout.  Does anyone even give a shit about football in that part of the country?

A lot less than in the South, for sure. But would interest have been higher if a guaranteed spot in the playoffs was on the line?

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

[BluTechsan 393]

I think there has to be a realignment component to it.

I agree with those who have stated it previously and I too would like to see uniformity among the leagues - same number of teams, same schedules, formats etc. etc. -

I'd prefer 12 teams if CCGs are used and 10 teams if they are not.

But either way,  the Blue Bloods are gonna have to decide that it's ok to remain spread out and stop trying to consolidate all the time. 

And therein lies the rub - is the goal  to provide a more equitable playoff format or is the goal to maximize conf affiliation, grant $$$, and market share.

Why not both?

Well, if it were so easy to do we wouldn't be having this discussion as it would already be happening.

But as it is currently, only 1 conference is checking all those boxes.

 

[DeadArmadillo 907]

Oh, I'm sure the secsecsec will go along when it's guaranteed 5 of the 8 spots.

Most CFB fans don't want that, but ESPN does. And ESPN and really most networks will squeeze every last dollar out of an easy money source. They'll try to convince us that we have to watch the Red Sox v Yankees, Duke v UNC, or the stinkin' UCONN women. They're doing the same with SEC football now because they have the SEC network

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

[DeadArmadillo 907]

What the hell will we argue about in the off season?

You were probably kidding, but there is at last a little bit of truth behind what you said

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

[burntorangebongos 10,752]

Why can't all P5 schools have to play only other P5 schools during the regular season? Or at least maybe only limit to one non P5 game a season? That should be considered.

[kopp0e 1,135]

1 hour ago, TheLadiesChoice said:

and had Georgia won, 3 of the P5 conferences would have been left out. 

I can't disagree with that... (but it would have caused for a near immediate change to the current system)...

Edited December 13, 2018 by kopp0e

[Hurtlocker 2,213]

6 hours ago, formermav43 said:

How are you going to determine the best 8 teams? 

[Surlybastard 65]

7 hours ago, bamachine said:

As a Bama season ticket holder, I would much rather have another marquee opponent coming into BDS than a FCS "cupcake". I am just pointing out why those games are played. In Bama's case, it is not for an auto win. It is to ensure they have 7 home games for the season ticket holders. Now that they finally are seeming to go away from the neutral openers, with the ND and UT home and homes scheduled, they may end up with less of those, especially during the home stands of those series.

You honestly think its some big coincidence that Bama and probably Auburn seem to always schedule some fcs cupcake the week before they play each other? In fact, the sec is the only P5 conference I know of that regularly works those sort of games into the meat of the conf schedule every single year. I think everyone here knows exactly what is going on there and its called pussy ass bullshit. That is what it is.

[BB65 480]

Make it 8, 16, 32 or 64 but no team should get a bye. The playoffs should be all play the same number of games to win it all.

[utee94 15,852]

64?  No way, make it 128.

Everyone gets in plus 3 from D1-AA.  Regular season of 5 games determines seeding, then let the REAL FUN begin!

[Guest]

13 hours ago, DanRydell said:

It's easy.  
 
 


It’s baffling how people refer to SEC scheduling advantages as if the conference/schools are doing something every other conference can’t. It’s not their fault if other conferences/schools shoot themselves in the dick.

The baffling part is why scheduling isn’t standardized...and then you see what else the SEC bitches about like pace of the game and academics.

 

But yeah, the SEC is just innocently going about their business...

[Guest]

6 hours ago, burntorangebongos said:

Why can't all P5 schools have to play only other P5 schools during the regular season? Or at least maybe only limit to one non P5 game a season? That should be considered.

Because that, sir, would be too bold...

 

and complicated.

[kopp0e 1,135]

I wonder if the AAC looking to form a GoR's for it's next media deal would be able to leverage that with ESPN for inclusion into an expanded 8 team playoff..?

[kopp0e 1,135]

I am not sure how FCS does it in ranking teams that is different from FBS in using the current polling system, but the CFP will most likely grow to 8 in the midst of the current 12 year ESPN contract... After that point there needs to be talk of expanding to 16 or 24 as the FCS has a 24(+) team setup...

[Sock Drawer 214]

17 hours ago, bamachine said:

You will hear it quite a bit from FCS fans, of which I am one of those. My alma mater, JSU, has needed those payout games to stay somewhat relevant in their division. B12 teams play FCS teams, maybe not every team but still. ACC plays them, B1G play in state FCS teams. It is no more of a bye week than playing a bottom dwelling P5 or G5 team. Hell, we had more injuries playing against the Citadel than most P5 games this season, dealing with all the cut blocking against an option team.

Damn, you're a T-shirt 'Bama fan? Who knew? (Now that I think about it, you do sound a little too erudite.)

[Al_4_ISU 12,477]

I don't have a problem with how the SEC schedules.

I have a problem with the national media completely fucking ignoring it.

Schedule however the hell you want, but when you play 8 games instead of 9, people should be able to wrap their heads around it while evaluating teams.

[Wally Fairway 5,575]

17 hours ago, slorch said:

 

ask dumbass Kirk Herbstreit, of course.

FIFY

[El Hornarino 374]

Put me in the 8 team camp.  Bye weeks too valuable.