Georgia Defense: an Analytical Summary

[Fondren & Main 6670]

1 hour ago, SHOOTER12 said:

X2

Fuck ‘em.

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

1 hour ago, lemonandaturd said:

Are Tyson Campbell and Eric Stokes better than Parnell Motley and Tre Norwood?  If not, they may be in for a long night.  

They probably are... but they probably will be in for a long night anyway.

[kopp0e 1135]

5 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

They probably are... but they probably will be in for a long night anyway.

Keep in mind LSU shut down the UGA offense, so it is doable...

[sushihorn 3233]

3 hours ago, So_co said:

It's official now.  Baker will not suit up for the game.  As a fan, I selfishly want him to play one more time, but logically speaking, it's the right move for a guy in his position.  

It's probably the right move for him.  It still sucks for the fans and his teammates. 

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

1 minute ago, kopp0e said:

Keep in mind LSU shut down the UGA offense, so it is doable...

Well, that's true, but the topic at hand was Georgia's CBs compared to Oklahoma's CBs.

I'm expecting a shootout, actually, because I look at the matchups, and I see pretty much "advantage offense" on both sides. The only question is, do the Georgia DBs wear out faster than the Texas DL? Whoever makes more critical stops will likely win, which makes it advantage Texas, simply because Georgia never has to play in a game like that. In the contrast of styles, this game is likely to look more like a B12 game than an SEC game.

[sushihorn 3233]

Just now, kopp0e said:

Keep in mind LSU shut down the UGA offense, so it is doable...

Just don't give them multiple short-filed opportunities.  Make them drive the length of the field.  Auburn basically did that and Georgia scored 27 on them.  Some will argue that LSU has a better defense than Texas.  Pretty tough to make that case for Auburn.

[sushihorn 3233]

7 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

Well, that's true, but the topic at hand was Georgia's CBs compared to Oklahoma's CBs.

I'm expecting a shootout, actually, because I look at the matchups, and I see pretty much "advantage offense" on both sides. The only question is, do the Georgia DBs wear out faster than the Texas DL? Whoever makes more critical stops will likely win, which makes it advantage Texas, simply because Georgia never has to play in a game like that. In the contrast of styles, this game is likely to look more like a B12 game than an SEC game.

Two factors working in opposite directions here.  Texas has a more disruptive defense and is more likely to create stops via plays for loss and turnovers.  Georgia has a more consistent defense and is less likely to make a mistake and give up a big play.

[lemonandaturd 4285]

4 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

Two factors working in opposite directions here.  Texas has a more disruptive defense and is more likely to create stops via plays for loss and turnovers.  Georgia has a more consistent defense and is less likely to make a mistake and give up a big play.

So if the above happens we get a 13 to 10 SECSECSEC snoozefest.  But if it mirrors last year's OU/Georgia playoff game, then we get a 48 to 45 track meet.  We win a track meet.  

[So_co 69]

15 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

Just don't give them multiple short-filed opportunities.  Make them drive the length of the field.  Auburn basically did that and Georgia scored 27 on them.  Some will argue that LSU has a better defense than Texas.  Pretty tough to make that case for Auburn.

One thing Auburn and LSU do have is a stud DL. That was a big reason for being able to slow Georgia's offense.

[kopp0e 1135]

2 hours ago, Walden Ponderer said:

Well, that's true, but the topic at hand was Georgia's CBs compared to Oklahoma's CBs.

I'm expecting a shootout, actually, because I look at the matchups, and I see pretty much "advantage offense" on both sides. The only question is, do the Georgia DBs wear out faster than the Texas DL? Whoever makes more critical stops will likely win, which makes it advantage Texas, simply because Georgia never has to play in a game like that. In the contrast of styles, this game is likely to look more like a B12 game than an SEC game.

Texas has a very physical & aggressive defense, that can impose it's will, I look for the team to do the same vs UGA... 

[kopp0e 1135]

2 hours ago, sushihorn said:

Just don't give them multiple short-filed opportunities.  Make them drive the length of the field.  Auburn basically did that and Georgia scored 27 on them.  Some will argue that LSU has a better defense than Texas.  Pretty tough to make that case for Auburn.

Agreed...

[Teddy 25]

2 hours ago, lemonandaturd said:

So if the above happens we get a 13 to 10 SECSECSEC snoozefest.  But if it mirrors last year's OU/Georgia playoff game, then we get a 48 to 45 track meet.  We win a track meet.  

That’s what OU said last year about if it got to a track meet. 

[Nivek 16859]

That’s what OU said last year about if it got to a track meet. 

Fuck ou

[So_co 69]

14 minutes ago, kopp0e said:

Texas has a very physical & aggressive defense, that can impose it's will, I look for the team to do the same vs UGA... 

One question. Do you think #44 would be starting on the DL of either LSU or Auburn?

I like that Texas' philosophy is a physical brand of football.  UGA loves physical football, and won't back down from a battle. 

[Hamttx 419]

1 hour ago, So_co said:

One question. Do you think #44 would be starting on the DL of either LSU or Auburn?

I like that Texas' philosophy is a physical brand of football.  UGA loves physical football, and won't back down from a battle. 

Yeah, they looked real fucking physical chasing Hurts around as he was running through gaps 5 yards wide. 

[So_co 69]

3 hours ago, So_co said:

One thing Auburn and LSU do have is a stud DL. That was a big reason for being able to slow Georgia's offense.

To illustrate my point:  

LSU DL:

DE 97 Glen Logan 6-4 297 So.

NT 91 Breiden Fehoko 6-4 291 Jr.

DE 90 Rashard Lawrence 6-3 317 Jr.

 

Auburn DL;

Buck 91 NICK COE (6-5, 282, So.)

DT 95 DONTAVIUS RUSSELL (6-3, 320, Sr.)

DT 5 DERRICK BROWN (6-5, 320, Jr.)

DE 3 MARLON DAVIDSON (6-3, 278, Jr.)

 

Texas DL:

DE 44 Breckyn Hager Sr. 6-3 255

NT 97 Chris Nelson Sr. 6-1 315

DE 90 Charles Omenihu Sr. 6-6 275

 

UGA OL:

LT 71 Andrew Thomas (6-5, 320, So.)

LG 66 Solomon Kindley (6-6, 335, RSo.)

C 53 Lamont Gaillard (6-2, 308, Sr.)

RG 77 Cade Mays (6-6, 318, Fr.)

RT 79 Isaiah Wilson (6-7, 340, RFr.)

[So_co 69]

2 minutes ago, Hamttx said:

Yeah, they looked real fucking physical chasing Hurts around as he was running through gaps 5 yards wide. 

Is Alabama's OL playing in the Sugar Bowl?  

[Sgt Hulk 13647]

2 hours ago, kopp0e said:

Texas has a very physical & aggressive defense, that can impose it's will, I look for the team to do the same vs UGA... 

Que 

[kopp0e 1135]

3 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

Que 

If I may say so, UT was one of the more, if not  most consistent defense in XII, holding the majority of opponents under their season averages... UGA is not impermeable... 

[Pig Bellmont 8691]

We don’t have any common opponents, right? And Texas has way more to gain with a win than GA? Fuck the spread. Texas by 10. 

[vtaenz 601]

Texas has a very physical & aggressive defense, that can impose it's will, I look for the team to do the same vs UGA... 

Our defense did not do a lot of this against good teams for 4 quarters this year. ISU was the most consistent performance by them.

[gmr548 16513]

I go back and forth on the Texas D vs UGA O (ironic the conversation got here given the thread title...). On the one hand, the poster above has a point about the Texas DL. We don't have the horses that LSU or even Auburn possess. Georgia's offensive line will be the second best we've seen, behind Oklahoma, against whom the DL performance was a mixed bag over two games. Very different schematically though. Orlando has done really well against slower, more conventional pro style offenses. It's hard to argue that Georgia is trotting out significantly more offensive talent than USC, who we have stifled for two years in a row. Except of course at QB, which is also pretty damn important. ISU is also somewhat similar in terms of scheme and they were completely shut down - Georgia obviously brings more to the table in terms of OL talent though.

Ultimately I think Texas will be able to get some first half stops. Not a shutout or anything but certainly a respectable showing. In a way, the biggest key for the Texas D will be its own offense, not unlike B12 play. Can the offense avoid killer mistakes/turnovers that put the defense in bad positions? Can they sustain drives and keep the defense fresh and not feeling like they have to win the game on their own? Can they score points to dictate the pace of the game and make UGA play the type of game they aren't used to? I think those are the things that will impact defensive performance most, to be honest. Texas O vs Georgia D is the key matchup.

[SquishMitten 10401]

Since most comments have been on UT’s offense vs. UGA’s defense... How do you guys think your defense will matchup against UGA’s offense? I’ve seen a few UT games, so don’t know a lot about your defense and playmakers. 
UGA’s offense is fairly “simple” pro-style. 60/40 run/pass. Goal is to grind your front 7 into submission on the ground. If you have depth on the front 7, you should be able to slow them down. UGA will take shots in the passing game to keep the defense honest. Fromm can throw for 300 if you sellout on the run, and is accurate and efficient. There’s a handful of good receivers and tight end, but no one with gaudy numbers, due to the run first philosophy and Fromm spreading the ball around. 

Short version: you’ll see a really perplexing mix of three and outs along with more deep gashes than you’ve laid down on anyone all season. We’re sort of a “bend but don’t break, but when you do break, do so in infuriatingly wide the fuck open fashion.”

[SquishMitten 10401]

Alternate version/prediction: if it’s an SEC game, y’all win. If it turns into a shootout, we win.

[Nicole44 22027]

We’ll probably get gashed on the run. Georgia on the pass. If officiating stays fair (not suggesting it won’t and I don’t think the outcome would reflect it) I’d imagine a low scoring game unless we aren’t conservative on offense. If we play to our opponent-low scoring game.In that scenario, On offense they have the upper hand (mix in our inconsistent punting and FG game) Georgia wins. We throw like a mofo we can pull this off. Long way to say we need to just stretch the field. But I think we can. If we do we win. By two TDs. I just wonder how our Oline holds up. 

[meansonny 3]

On 12/27/2018 at 5:46 PM, lemonandaturd said:

Are Tyson Campbell and Eric Stokes better than Parnell Motley and Tre Norwood?  If not, they may be in for a long night.  

PFF grades Stokes at 79.1.  Campbell at 69.9 (LSU picked on him).  

McGhee (nickel) grades 65.9 (Bama picked on him).

 

https://247sports.com/college/georgia/LongFormArticle/Sugar-Bowl-2019-How-Georgia-Bulldogs-Texas-Longhorns-stack-up-by-position-126913486/#126913486_11

[Funk Doctor Spock 11923]

We're going to win because Sam said he's not letting this team down again, and I believe him. 

[tbone_ 14025]

Sweet.

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

On 12/27/2018 at 10:54 PM, So_co said:

Texas DL:

DE 44 Breckyn Hager Sr. 6-3 255 Marqez Bimage Fr. 6'2" 256 or Malcolm Roach Jr. 6'3" 269

NT 97 Chris Nelson Sr. 6-1 315

DE 90 Charles Omenihu Sr. 6-6 275

Bimage is actually a bit bigger than that now, but I don't have the current numbers. More to the point, he's stronger, has a better center of gravity, and is a whole lot quicker. That's even more true of Roach, though Bimage has shown surprisingly good technique for a Fr. The Texas DL is more required to be quick (especially laterally, but also upfield in a hurry), and while Hager will certainly get a lot of snaps, being a team captain and all, I would not in the least be surprised if Bimage and/or Roach gets more. 

If you have watched much of Orlando's work at his various stops, the only DL he puts on the field that even remotely follows traditional DL philosophy (and not always even then) is the NT. And he is probably happier, actually, when he has a slightly smaller but much quicker NT like Poona Ford, the only NFL NT under 6' tall, who is proving for Seattle what he proved at Texas -- a quick lineman in the right scheme can be better than a big one.

[Machinator 32097]

1 minute ago, Walden Ponderer said:

Bimage is actually a bit bigger than that now, but I don't have the current numbers. More to the point, he's stronger, has a better center of gravity, and is a whole lot quicker. That's even more true of Roach, though Bimage has shown surprisingly good technique for a Fr. The Texas DL is more required to be quick (especially laterally, but also upfield in a hurry), and while Hager will certainly get a lot of snaps, being a team captain and all, I would not in the least be surprised if Bimage and/or Roach gets more. 

If you have watched much of Orlando's work at his various stops, the only DL he puts on the field that even remotely follows traditional DL philosophy (and not always even then) is the NT. And he is probably happier, actually, when he has a slightly smaller but much quicker NT like Poona Ford, the only NFL NT under 6' tall, who is proving for Seattle what he proved at Texas -- a quick lineman in the right scheme can be better than a big one.

Bimage is out for the season.

[So_co 69]

50 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

The Texas DL is more required to be quick (especially laterally, but also upfield in a hurry)

That's a good strategy when facing a finesse team looking to spread the field horizontally and vertically while using RPOs and misdirection. 

That's not Georgia football though.  They're gonna run it right at you and dare you to stop it even though you know it's coming. That takes a different type of DL to stop it. 

[So_co 69]

One note about using Auburn as an example of a team that held the UGA offense in check. While they ultimately held the Dawgs to a lower scoring output, the team stats tell a very lopsided story. Because of AU's outstanding DL, they were able to muster two big time goal line stands costing UGA 8 points due to settling for FGs. Also, as you can see, UGA was held back by self inflicted penalties too.  Just food for thought when trotting them out as an example. 

 

Matchup
1st Downs	19	24
3rd down efficiency	3-11	8-14
4th down efficiency	0-1	1-2
Total Yards	274	516
Passing	172	213
Comp-Att	25-37	15-23
Yards per pass	4.6	9.3
Interceptions thrown	0	1
Rushing	102	303
Rushing Attempts	20	46
Yards per rush	5.1	6.6
Penalties	6-52	12-85
Turnovers	0	1
Fumbles lost	0	0
Interceptions thrown	0	1
Possession	21:45	38:15

[sushihorn 3233]

Auburn is just one example.  Georgia needed turnovers or big plays on special teams to crack 30 against Missouri, Kentucky, Florida, Tennessee and Auburn.  Obviously they didn't do well against LSU regardless.  There are enough examples to establish a pattern.

 

21 minutes ago, So_co said:

That's a good strategy when facing a finesse team looking to spread the field horizontally and vertically while using RPOs and misdirection. 

That's not Georgia football though.  They're gonna run it right at you and dare you to stop it even though you know it's coming. That takes a different type of DL to stop it. 

Texas will penetrate and disrupt.  Creating negative plays hurts a run-dependent offense more than it would hurt an offense comfortable throwing it from any down and distance.

[sushihorn 3233]

1 hour ago, Machinator said:

Bimage is out for the season.

More's the pity.  There are several other guys who can play space eating run-stopper if that's what Orlando feels he needs.  Coburn, Ojomo, Christmas-Giles all have some game experience.  But Ta'quon Graham would be my bet.  He got a lot of snaps in a couple of games and he's got the size (6'4" 285 lbs) and quickness to make plays not just soak up blocks.  We might also see some plays with Wilbon and Nellie on the field at the same time.

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

37 minutes ago, So_co said:

That's a good strategy when facing a finesse team looking to spread the field horizontally and vertically while using RPOs and misdirection. 

That's not Georgia football though.  They're gonna run it right at you and dare you to stop it even though you know it's coming. That takes a different type of DL to stop it. 

Actually, the opposite is true. Finesse teams (like Maryland, for example) can drive this defense crazy. Misdirection is the Achille' Heel for a team that slants and stunts constantly. This defense is designed to get LBs a clear path to the runner in a straight-ahead power game. The best case in point is what Herman's (and Orlando's) defense did against Florida State in the 2015 Peach Bowl.

It's actually part of the reason it is extremely difficult to recruit DL for this scheme -- the whole purpose of DL is to occupy linemen and confuse the extra blocking surface (usually a TE, but occasionally the quaint FB) so that the second level defenders can get to the LOS. Not a lot of high school DL want to play in a scheme where they are expected to not get a lot of tackles. 

[lemonandaturd 4285]

Georgia had 445 total offense against Missouri.  Missouri had 393 total offense against Georgia.  Missouri was moving the ball at the Georgia 31 and fumbled.  Georgia  picked up the  fumble and returned it for a touchdown.  They also blocked a Missouri punt and returned it for an 8 yard touchdown.  The final score was 43 -29.  Georgia is not Alabama, especially without Baker.  

[Teddy 25]

20 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

Auburn is just one example.  Georgia needed turnovers or big plays on special teams to crack 30 against Missouri, Kentucky, Florida, Tennessee and Auburn.  Obviously they didn't do well against LSU regardless.  There are enough examples to establish a pattern.

 

Texas will penetrate and disrupt.  Creating negative plays hurts a run-dependent offense more than it would hurt an offense comfortable throwing it from any down and distance.

Are turnovers and special teams not apart of the game? Is UT immune from turnovers or having to play special teams? I'll never understand why people just want to exclude the stats they don't like. UGA averaged winning by 19 points. over those 5 teams you mentioned being a pattern (for reference, UT did not beat one team this year by 19, while UGA averaged that against 5 SEC foes you mentioned, with two of those being top 15 teams)... Regardless, it should be an interesting/good game, especially with UGA missing its #1 CB, and now UGA's #1 DL and #1 LB are game time decisions to play. 

[sushihorn 3233]

2 minutes ago, Teddy said:

Are turnovers and special teams not apart of the game? Is UT immune from turnovers or having to play special teams? I'll never understand why people just want to exclude the stats they don't like. UGA averaged winning by 19 points. over those 5 teams you mentioned being a pattern (for reference, UT did not beat one team this year by 19, while UGA averaged that against 5 SEC foes you mentioned, with two of those being top 15 teams)... Regardless, it should be an interesting/good game, especially with UGA missing its #1 CB, and now UGA's #1 DL and #1 LB are game time decisions to play. 

It depends on the context of the discussion.  Here was what I responded to:

Quote

One note about using Auburn as an example of a team that held the UGA offense in check.

 

[Teddy 25]

2 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

It depends on the context of the discussion.  Here was what I responded to:

 

Please reference @So_co 's stats above about Auburn holding UGA's offense "in check."

[Cajun 11675]

On 12/27/2018 at 6:39 PM, kopp0e said:

Keep in mind LSU shut down the UGA offense, so it is doable...

Yeah, but LSU has a coach that no one can understand outside of Acadiana, so advantage aggy.

[sushihorn 3233]

15 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

Actually, the opposite is true. Finesse teams (like Maryland, for example) can drive this defense crazy. Misdirection is the Achille' Heel for a team that slants and stunts constantly. This defense is designed to get LBs a clear path to the runner in a straight-ahead power game. The best case in point is what Herman's (and Orlando's) defense did against Florida State in the 2015 Peach Bowl.

Todd Orlando's defensive philosophy has just fine against a lot of different offensive looks.  But this year's personnel are best suited to defending pro style offenses.  The last SEC team Texas played was held FAR below their season averages in points, rushing and total yards by Orlando's defense.

[sushihorn 3233]

7 minutes ago, Cajun said:

Yeah, but LSU has a coach that no one can understand outside of Acadiana, so advantage aggy.

He was great in The Waterboy.

 

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

11 minutes ago, Teddy said:

Are turnovers and special teams not apart of the game? Is UT immune from turnovers or having to play special teams? 

Turnovers and special teams are a part of the game. And while not immune, UT is definitely much better in the turnover department than all but three of the teams they've played this year. They lost against two of those (WVU and Maryland). The Horns rank 27th in FBS in turnover margin; Georgia ranks 36th. Sam very rarely throws interceptions, and the more fumble prone RB on our roster is not likely to get much playing time in this game, so I am not remotely worried about the turnover game -- I fully expect Texas to win that battle, though perhaps not decisively.

Special teams are another thing altogether. We have a decent, not great, kicker, and a punter whose best days had better be ahead of him, because his career so far has (ahem!) not been indicative of his being the talent that his cousin is. In the return game, we get to pick our poison -- either go with the explosive return man who is a threat to take it to the house, provided he does not, instead, field punts he shouldn't, and not field punts he should, or we can go with the sure-handed, high football IQ return man who is probably not going to bust a long one (though to be fair, he has before, once, last year, so it is possible).

Herman referenced flipping the field on Georgia being a key. I hope he's wrong, because I do not expect Texas to win that particular battle.

[Gaffords 755]

UGA has never seen a Hager materialize in the backgield at the snap and it will take them a couple of quarters to figure out that as long as they ignore him, he will run right by..

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

2 minutes ago, Gaffords said:

UGA has never seen a Hager materialize in the backgield at the snap and it will take them a couple of quarters to figure out that as long as they ignore him, he will run right by..

[Teddy 25]

3 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

Todd Orlando's defensive philosophy has just fine against a lot of different offensive looks.  But this year's personnel are best suited to defending pro style offenses.  The last SEC team Texas played was held FAR below their season averages in points, rushing and total yards by Orlando's defense.

I'm assuming you're talking about Mizzou last year. I wouldn't consider them your typical SEC offense. If anything, they are a Big12 offense. Heupel, then at Mizzou & now at UCF, runs a spread offense. 

[sushihorn 3233]

3 minutes ago, Teddy said:

I'm assuming you're talking about Mizzou last year. I wouldn't consider them your typical SEC offense. If anything, they are a Big12 offense. Heupel, then at Mizzou & now at UCF, runs a spread offense. 

The point is that Texas did a much better job than the average of those supposedly superior SEC defenses, which Missouri faced every week.  Every SEC defense other than Georgia gave up more rushing yards than Texas did for example.  It's the most recent comp available with zero common opponents this year.

Edited December 31, 2018 by sushihorn

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

1 minute ago, sushihorn said:

It's the most recent comp available with zero common opponents this year.

This is why, even though I'm hoping Texas does some mudhole stomping tomorrow, I would love to see Georgia run through their SEC schedule undefeated next year. You just know aggy is wet-dreaming about being able to do a comparison with how our respective teams fared against Georgia. The only way to keep them from putting another quality loss on the championship wall is for us to beat Georgia, and Georgia to take no pity next fall.

[meansonny 3]

2 hours ago, Walden Ponderer said:

Bimage is actually a bit bigger than that now, but I don't have the current numbers. More to the point, he's stronger, has a better center of gravity, and is a whole lot quicker. That's even more true of Roach, though Bimage has shown surprisingly good technique for a Fr. The Texas DL is more required to be quick (especially laterally, but also upfield in a hurry), and while Hager will certainly get a lot of snaps, being a team captain and all, I would not in the least be surprised if Bimage and/or Roach gets more. 

If you have watched much of Orlando's work at his various stops, the only DL he puts on the field that even remotely follows traditional DL philosophy (and not always even then) is the NT. And he is probably happier, actually, when he has a slightly smaller but much quicker NT like Poona Ford, the only NFL NT under 6' tall, who is proving for Seattle what he proved at Texas -- a quick lineman in the right scheme can be better than a big one.

So_co is stating that our OL does a great job getting to the linebackers when the DL is undersized and a quick combo block leaves a clear path to the linebacker.

 

We will find out tomorrow if that is the case.  But an OL that can't hold the double-team usually spells trouble for the linebackers.

[SA-KC_Horn 1295]

I'm curious to seem how many Jet Sweeps UGA is willing to run, since that is our achilles heel.

This match up is intriguing because we've been playing B12 teams that have exceptional speed and willingness to use all four downs, but UGA appears to want to utilize their size in the trenches and wear Texas out and create running lanes that was displayed from 2012-2016.