Things not going well for the Oregon marijuana industry

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, Larry T. Spider said:

Seems like the place with the cheapest electricity would be the best place to grow.

That and depending on the size of your operation, land costs.

[immortal13 4059]

10 hours ago, Red Six said:

If you make alcohol incorrectly at home, you'll go blind.

I guess the same could be said about some cannabis products -- if you try to make hash oil at home, you could blow yourself up.

But the difference between weed and almost any other agricultural product is that it is relatively easy to produce a sufficient quantity for personal use with limited resources of space, time, and money.

A person can't grow everything he needs for beer in his back yard. He might be able to grow enough grapes for some wine, but wine grapes are picky. You also can't grow them inside under some fluorescent lights.

I think I've mentioned this on other cannabis-related threads, but the real money in this new pot economy is going to be in the extracts and other derivative products. That's what the kids want and the businesses that perfect this business model are going to be the ones who win.

Straight flower is perishable and is subject to the same economic risks as any other cash crop -- weather, disease, pests, etc. The only way to differentiate oneself as a corporate grower and actually make money on it is to ensure uniformity and maximize yield. And, given the aforementioned reasons, I don't think that's going to be enough.

I wouldn't be surprised if, when the industry is legitimized nationally, agricultural production focuses mainly on creating a standardized raw material for the processed goods, just like cotton, corn, wheat, or any other cash crop that comes out of the ground. There will be co-ops and commodity exchanges and those who can maximize yield and operate on economies of scale will be the most successful.

There just won't be much of a market for pure flower, not because there won't be a demand, but because the suppliers will tell us not to demand it. Home growers will be like home brewers and backyard gardeners, producing and sharing styles and strains of the days of yore.

So, anyhow... where are my Doritos?

Derivatives aren't going to replace good bud. Period

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

5 hours ago, immortal13 said:

Derivatives aren't going to replace good bud. Period

I don't know that I believe that. More and more people are shying away from combustibles.  It's nothing that'll happen soon, but the younger folks have more choices than inhaling smoke in their lungs.

[Hanrahan 1306]

He’s old and crotchety. I haven’t smoked actual weed in six months. Vaping it is much better.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, Hanrahan said:

He’s old and crotchety. I haven’t smoked actual weed in six months. Vaping it is much better.

Well I'm no spring chicken anymore (first documented official use of that term to describe myself BTW).  I love passing a joint around, but if I had the choice to eat something and catch a buzz in the same time frame and degree as smoking I'd probably pick that.  Having said that I don't like ingestibles when I ski they make me a bit nauseous, and the buzz lasts longer than I like while skiing.

[immortal13 4059]

37 minutes ago, Hanrahan said:

He’s old and crotchety. I haven’t smoked actual weed in six months. Vaping it is much better.

I've done plenty of vaping both wax and oil, and it's not as good. 

[RPM 26368]

 

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

43 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

I've done plenty of vaping both wax and oil, and it's not as good. 

As demand increases, so will quality. Eatables too, I imagine.

[Zepol87 9198]

The quality is pretty damn good right now. 

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

23 minutes ago, Zepol87 said:

The quality is pretty damn good right now. 

It will only get better and cheaper as more states legalize. That's how you end the War on Drugs. (No CR)

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

It will only get better and cheaper as more states legalize. That's how you end the War on Drugs. (No CR)

It just moved.........

[Ben Tobin 374]

On 12/17/2018 at 9:07 AM, Hate said:

It is done in controlled environments for the most part.  

Indo?  Smell like outdo.

[High Plains Drifter 11053]

On 12/17/2018 at 11:50 AM, Bat Guano said:

South of the 30th parallel is best for quality, outdoor growing, based on hours and intensity of the sun, but there are no places in the US that are legal to grow it that far south (basically south of San Antonio and much of Florida).  Most growers are using controlled environments.

A friend of mine who grows outdoor in an area far north of Texas begs to differ. Or at least he would if he weren't high as a fucking kite.

 

 

 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

8 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

A friend of mine who grows outdoor in an area far north of Texas begs to differ. Or at least he would if he weren't high as a fucking kite.

 

 

 

Altitude can affect those conditions, just saying.

[Bat Guano 359]

7 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

A friend of mine who grows outdoor in an area far north of Texas begs to differ. Or at least he would if he weren't high as a fucking kite.

 

 

 

Sure, you can grow good stuff in other latitudes; as noted, Northern Cal produces some good weed. It's based mostly on the genetics. All other things being equal, though, the latitude makes a difference if you want optimal quality from a given strain.

[Hate 20149]

Here is an example of why it may be better to grow inside a controlled environment.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dead-skunks-rotting-lemons-no-that-stench-is-just-california’s-pot-fields/ar-BBRajek?li=BBnbcA1&ocid=DELLDHP17

CARPINTERIA, Calif. — They call it fresh skunk, the odor cloud or sometimes just the stink.

Mike Wondolowski often finds himself in the middle of it. He may be on the chaise longue on his patio, at his computer in the house, or tending to his orange and lemon trees in the garden when the powerful, nauseating stench descends on him.

Mr. Wondolowski lives a half-mile away from greenhouses that were originally built to grow daisies and chrysanthemums but now house thousands of marijuana plants, part of a booming — and pungent — business seeking to cash in on recreational cannabis, which has been legal in California since January.

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“If someone is saying, ‘Is it really that bad?’ I’ll go find a bunch of skunks and every evening I’ll put them outside your window,” Mr. Wondolowski said. “It’s just brutal.”

When Californians voted to legalize recreational marijuana in 2016, there were debates about driving under the influence and keeping it away from children. But lawmakers did not anticipate the uproar that would be generated by the funk of millions of flowering cannabis plants.

As a result of the stench, residents in Sonoma County, north of San Francisco, are suing to ban cannabis operations from their neighborhoods. Mendocino County, farther north, recently created zones banning cannabis cultivation — the sheriff’s deputy there says the stink is the No. 1 complaint.

In Santa Barbara County, cannabis growers confronting the rage of neighbors are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars installing odor-control systems that were designed for garbage dumps.

The smell from commercial cannabis farms, which brings to mind a mixture of rotting lemons and sulfur, is nothing like the wafting cloud that might hover over a Phish show, pot farm detractors say.

“It’s as if a skunk, or multiple skunks in a family, were living under our house,” said Grace Guthrie, whose home sits on the site of a former apple orchard outside the town of Sebastopol. Her neighbors grow pot commercially. “It doesn’t dissipate,” Ms. Guthrie said. “It’s beyond anything you would imagine.”

When cannabis odors are at their peak, she and her husband, Robert, sometimes wear respirators, the kind one might put on to handle dangerous chemicals. During Labor Day weekend, relatives came to stay at the house, but cut short their visit because they couldn’t stand the smell.

“I can’t be outside more than 30 minutes,” Mr. Guthrie said of peak odor times, when the cannabis buds are flowering and the wind sweeps the smell onto his property. “The windows are constantly closed. We are trapped inside. There’s no escape.”

After nearly one year of recreational sales in California, much of the cannabis industry remains underground. Stung by taxes and voluminous paperwork, only around 5 percent of marijuana farmers in the state have licenses, according to Hezekiah Allen, the executive director of the California Growers Association, a marijuana advocacy group. Sales of legal cannabis are expected to exceed $3 billion this year, only slightly higher than medical marijuana sales from last year. Tax revenues have been lower than expected, and only about one-fifth of California cities allow sales of recreational cannabis. The dream of a fully regulated market seems years off.

The ballot measure legalizing recreational marijuana passed in 2016 with a comfortable majority of 57 percent. Many of those complaining about cannabis odors say they were among those who supported it. They just don’t want it stinking up their property, they say.

“Just because you like bacon doesn’t mean you want to live next to a pig farm,” said Lynda Hopkins, a member of the Sonoma County Board of Supervisors, whose office has been inundated with complaints about the smell.

The odor question is also roiling local politics.

Marijuana businesses in Carpinteria recently donated $28,000 worth of lab equipment to Carpinteria High School, according to Philip Greene, the chief of operations for Ever-Bloom, a cannabis producer that helped coordinate the donation. The high school is flanked by cannabis greenhouses that have sent odors wafting in. In the past two years, students have complained of headaches, parents have grown angry and the high school has had to warn visiting sports teams that they might encounter the odor.

The donation has not yet been made public, but is seen by some as an effort to offset the damage done by the stench. In an interview, Maureen Foley Claffey, a member of the Carpinteria School Board, said it would send a “confusing and problematic” message to students to accept it. Ms. Claffey lashed out at the superintendent, Diana Rigby, for soliciting donations from the cannabis industry at a time when members of the community are battling the stink.

“Are we that desperate for cash that we are willing to take it from anyone without regard to the source and the message?” she said. “I guess money talks.”

Ms. Rigby, the superintendent, did not return phone calls or email requesting comment.

In Sonoma County, hearings on cannabis ordinances at the board of supervisors overflow with representatives from the cannabis industry, who wear green, and angry residents, who wear red.

Of the more than 730 complaints Sonoma County has received about cannabis this year, around 65 percent are related to odor, according to Tim Ricard, the county’s cannabis program manager.

“There’s been a tremendous amount of tension in the community,” said Ms. Hopkins, the Sonoma supervisor. “If I had to name an ice-cream flavor for cannabis implementation it would definitely be rocky road.”

Cannabis executives recognize that pot grows can be odorous, but say their industry is no different from others that produce smells.

“You have a smell issue that sometimes can’t be completely mitigated,” said Dennis Hunter, a co-founder of CannaCraft, a large marijuana business based in Santa Rosa in Sonoma County. “But we have dairy farms here in the area or crush season for the vineyards — there’s agricultural crops, and a lot of them have smells.”

Britt Christiansen, a registered nurse who lives among the dairy farms of Sonoma County, acknowledges that her neighborhood smells of manure, known locally as the Sonoma aroma.

But she says she made the choice to live next to a dairy farm and prefers that smell to the odor that drifted over from the marijuana farm next door to her house.

“We opened the door and the smell kicked us in the face,” Ms. Christiansen said. Her neighbors banded together in October and sued the operators of the pot business; the case is ongoing.

One problem for local governments trying to legislate cannabis odors is that there is no objective standard for smells. A company in Minnesota, St. Croix Sensory, has developed a device called the Nasal Ranger, which looks like a cross between a hair dryer and a radar gun. Users place the instrument on their nose and turn a filter dial to rate the potency on a numerical scale. Charles McGinley, the inventor of the device, says a Level 7 is the equivalent of “sniffing someone’s armpit without the deodorant — or maybe someone’s feet — a nuisance certainly.”

A Level 4, he said, is the equivalent of a neighbor’s freshly cut grass. “It could still be a nuisance, but it wouldn’t drive you away from your front porch,” Mr. McGinley said.

Standing next to a flowering cannabis bud, the smell would easily be a Level 7, Mr. McGinley said.

The Nasal Ranger is in use in Colorado, the first state to legalize recreational marijuana, but California counties and cities are still struggling with the notion that smells are subjective.

Ever-Bloom in Carpinteria is one of a number of marijuana businesses that have invested hundreds of thousands of dollars to mitigate the stink. Two previous system failed, but the current one, modeled on devices used to mask the smell of garbage dumps, sprays a curtain of vapor around the perimeter of the greenhouses. The vapor, which is made up of essential oils, gives off a menthol smell resembling Bengay.

Dennis Bozanich, a Santa Barbara County official charged with cannabis implementation who has become known as the cannabis czar, says the essential oil odor control has been largely successful. But not every grower can afford to install it.

On weekends, Mr. Bozanich becomes a cannabis odor sleuth, riding his bicycle through Carpinteria sniffing the air for pot plants. He recently drove through the area with a reporter, rolling down the windows on a stretch of road with cannabis greenhouses. He slowed the car and puzzled over where a cannabis odor was coming from.

“I’ve got one stinky location right here and I can’t quite figure it out,” he said.

His description of the stink?

“Dead skunk.”

[XYZ 2154]

Does a dead skunk smell any worse than a live skunk?

[Guest]

absolute shocker that Cali would bury industry in red tape...

[High Plains Drifter 11053]

5 hours ago, XYZ said:

Does a dead skunk smell any worse than a live skunk?

My dogs think dead skunk is the acme of smells. I came home a few weeks ago and they were playing tug of war with one.

[woohorn 1131]

When is Monsanto gonna take over the weed seed mkt?

[F250 28828]

 

[workswithseed 2122]

On 12/17/2018 at 8:19 AM, Incredulity said:

Historically the coastal mountains of Southern Oregon and Northern California have been areas that had outdoor illegal volume grows.

Most of the legal weed in Oregon is being grown indoors, however some of the major players are trying to develop outdoor "in the ground" grows to maximize production and decrease costs to compete in the current environment.  If that is succesful prices will continue to fall.  

On my way back to Portland from Sisters, I saw a large crop of weed. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Same concept with cigar smoke. It used to stink to high even to me, then I started smoking, and now its a Pavlovian response thing when I get a whiff of a good stick.  When I smell the skunk weed aroma my head is like a  swiveling periscope on the prowl for the source.

[El Diablo 4232]

They'll isolate the stink gene and unskunk the pot.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 hour ago, BurntEyes said:

Oddly, while I stupidly participate in tabacco use namely cigarettes on occasion, I actually hate the smell of both cigarettes and cigars.

I have to wash my hands and face after smoking and rinse my mouth out/use mouthwash. 

I do, curiously, like pipe tabacco smell.

Yeah can't stand cig smoke, and I wash my face and hands after smoking a cigar. Stale cigar stinks.

Love pipe smoke. Takes me back to the days I would hang around my great grandfathers wood working shop. He had a pipe, a cigar or a plug of tobacco in his mouth all day.  The sweet cherry pipe smell is almost Pavlovian to me, it Brings a flood of memories.

[Buffsoldier 1895]

24 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Love pipe smoke. Takes me back to the days I would hang around my great grandfathers wood working shop. He had a pipe, a cigar or a plug of tobacco in his mouth all day.  The sweet cherry pipe smell is almost Pavlovian to me, it Brings a flood of memories.

Truth.  In addition to puffing a pipe, Grampa used to keep a Pipe tobacco bag full of fresh tobacco hanging from the rear view mirror of his truck as an air freshener.  THAT brings back a LOT of damn fine memories....

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4979]

Most pipe tobacco they sell at non tobacco specific stores is pretty heavily cased with flavorings. The more English styles and Balkan blends and stuff not so much.

[Texas_Rocks 347]

Oregon just needs some time to weed out the the get rich fast dreamers before big tobacco comes in and saves the day by driving up the cost.

 

But seriously, as this spreads across the country it will be interesting as big tobacco goes all in with backdoor multi million payouts to the politicians that will inevitably pass regulations that make it too cost prohibitive for small time growers. That’s definitely going to happen. So there will always be illegal weed.

 

[El Diablo 4232]

Common sense would dictate that those who can should grow their own and trade among themselves. No doubt that growing for personal use will be illegal at some point.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 hour ago, El Diablo said:

Common sense would dictate that those who can should grow their own and trade among themselves. No doubt that growing for personal use will be illegal at some point.

Well of course it will.  SEE:  Moonshine.

[El Diablo 4232]

41 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Well of course it will.  SEE:  Moonshine.

That's the gubmint protecting you from yourseff. Yet ever toofless hick in the holler can distill they own corn likker. Only a few go blind or blow theyself up. @Whitmancan probably provide some data.

[Colonel Sanders 1370]

On 12/17/2018 at 10:23 AM, Onboard 2.0 said:

Va. does not allow hard liquor to be shipped across/ into the state line. I get "car parts" shipped form my guy in Conn. for those rare blends of bourbon goodness I can't find here. 

That included wine clubs for many years, but I believe you can now. Like I said alcohol is a state issue and not a federal issue, weed won't be any different.

 

Yes, I do get your point and support your run for office to get it passed in all states nationwide !!!!  Same thing with insurance. You can't sell insurance across state lines because of each states unique little phifedom of regulatory BS.  That's one of the reasons it's so expense in many places now.

I get bourbon I can't find at VABC sent to my home. I have to sign for it but it gets here.  If it is against the law no one seems to care.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

4 minutes ago, Colonel Sanders said:

I get bourbon I can't find at VABC sent to my home. I have to sign for it but it gets here.  If it is against the law no one seems to care.

 

4 minutes ago, Colonel Sanders said:

I get bourbon I can't find at VABC sent to my home. I have to sign for it but it gets here.  If it is against the law no one seems to care.

I do the same thing "car parts"

[F250 28828]

On 12/20/2018 at 9:44 AM, El Diablo said:

They'll isolate the stink gene and unskunk the pot.

Why? That's like taking the stank out of sex.

[BigHorn'13 3387]

On 12/20/2018 at 9:44 AM, El Diablo said:

They'll isolate the stink gene and unskunk the pot.

I don't want to see this world you envision. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

On 12/16/2018 at 1:03 PM, Onboard 2.0 said:

Too bad that doesn't happen in the bourbon industry.

Weed is way easier and cheaper to grow than corn. Even modern variants that are grown indoors.  Corn is way more picky. And thats even before you get to making a mash, distilling it, and aging it for years.  The post grow processing for weed isn't all that time consuming or burdensome either. 

If it was completely deregulated, most weed would be damn near free. 

[Incredulity 11684]

1 hour ago, FondrenRoad said:

Weed is way easier and cheaper to grow than corn. Even modern variants that are grown indoors.  Corn is way more picky. And thats even before you get to making a mash, distilling it, and aging it for years.  The post grow processing for weed isn't all that time consuming or burdensome either. 

If it was completely deregulated, most weed would be damn near free. 

Which is exactly why it will never be deregulated.

Unregulated growing will be eliminated under the pretense of protecting the children. 

[Bernard 879]

On 12/21/2018 at 3:20 PM, Colonel Sanders said:

I get bourbon I can't find at VABC sent to my home. I have to sign for it but it gets here.  If it is against the law no one seems to care.

If it's all white, it's all right. As soon as some brown people get into the business (buyers or sellers), 5-0 will be all over it. 

Bernard

[Junior Miller 1502]

On 12/18/2018 at 9:09 AM, Zepol87 said:

The quality is pretty damn good right now. 

No shit. I remember in the 90s I'd smoke a while joint and be high but nothing too crazy. Now I take one good sized hit off a disposable vape pen, wait 5 minutes, and I'm blasted. The dispensary shit is fucking strong. 

[immortal13 4059]

3 hours ago, Junior Miller said:

No shit. I remember in the 90s I'd smoke a while joint and be high but nothing too crazy. Now I take one good sized hit off a disposable vape pen, wait 5 minutes, and I'm blasted. The dispensary shit is fucking strong. 

Username checks out

[BigHorn'13 3387]

Also lol at all the people making it sound like growing is easier than toasting bread. I remember being 14 thinking the same shit and then plant after plant kept dying. Shit is wayyy more complex than put seed in ground and water. Weed is a misnomer. 

[Surly Bevo 25222]

Also lol at all the people making it sound like growing is easier than toasting bread.

You should check out the Steel Shank thread. Roasting bread = serious bidness

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

24 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Also lol at all the people making it sound like growing is easier than toasting bread. I remember being 14 thinking the same shit and then plant after plant kept dying. Shit is wayyy more complex than put seed in ground and water. Weed is a misnomer. 

Water and sunlight ?  How do they work ?  keeping it alive isn;t that hard, it's getting it to flower, and create buds. THAT'S the trick. 

[El Diablo 4232]

55 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Also lol at all the people making it sound like growing is easier than toasting bread. I remember being 14 thinking the same shit and then plant after plant kept dying. Shit is wayyy more complex than put seed in ground and water. Weed is a misnomer. 

Cousin of mine had a '66 Chevy II. They lived out on the farm, on a dirt road. Lots of mud got tracked into that car and being a teen farmboy he didn't much give a shit. I guess one of his buddies dropped some seeds in the floorboard 'cause he had pot plants sprout back there after leaving the windows down during a rain. /csb

[RPM 26368]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Water and sunlight ?  How do they work ?  keeping it alive isn;t that hard, it's getting it to flower, and create buds. THAT'S the trick. 

I tend to highly disagree. Getting it from seed to vegetative state is the hardest part. Cloning bypasses that and increases yield. Once the plant is viable nature takes it's course, if you follow the rules. It all hinges on light exposure.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Never had any problem getting plants to grow 3,4 and 5' tall.  Budding always escaped our abilities.  We were also using seed from the weed we were buying back then which was mostly Mexican "dirt weed" in the late 70's early 80's.

[Hornius Emeritus 12491]

On 12/17/2018 at 10:19 AM, Incredulity said:

Historically the coastal mountains of Southern Oregon and Northern California have been areas that had outdoor illegal volume grows.

Most of the legal weed in Oregon is being grown indoors, however some of the major players are trying to develop outdoor "in the ground" grows to maximize production and decrease costs to compete in the current environment.  If that is succesful prices will continue to fall.  

I would imagine that when the folks at Iowa State University and the farmers in Iowa get hold of the industry, you'll REALLY start to see prices go down.  Those folks know what the #*$@! they are doing when it comes to massive agricultural projects.

[RPM 26368]

10 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Budding always escaped our abilities.

Indoor or outdoor?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, RPM said:

Indoor or outdoor?

Oh outdoor for sure, we were in High school growing it in the cut overs, and power lines around our neighborhood.  We scoped out places we could hide plants being grown unless you stumbled right on 'em.  I'd really like to do an indoor grow, box but the wife would freak.

[hookemATL 11934]

My buddy grew it with an aero garden (small hydroponic garden thingy meant to be used to grow small herbs/etc.).  Obviously it couldn’t get too big but it flowered and budded just fine. Had he transplanted them I’m sure it would have put out plenty of the good stuff. 

Granted that’s just one anecdote, and the seeds were from California I believe but I found the whole process incredibly simple and quick.