The Boy Scouts are considering bankruptcy

[Parliament 14112]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/boy-scouts-america-pushed-brink-bankruptcy-battles-insurers-n948181

I want to blame the social justice cisgender warriors.  But...

The Boy Scouts of America is considering filing for bankruptcy in part because insurance companies are balking at paying settlements to almost a dozen men who claim they were sexually abused as boys by a notorious scoutmaster.

Since August, the venerable organization has been battling insurers INA, which is now part of Chubb, and National Surety, which is an Allianz company, and the Hartford Accident and Indemnity Co., court records show.

“We remain in disputes with some carriers and look forward to a resolution that benefits victims and helps them on their journey towards healing,” BSA spokeswoman Effie Delimarkos said in a statement to NBC News.

[HenryJames 65868]

[Pancho 44358]

Go back to the Ohio state boards. Please.

[Aqua Buddha 14488]

Ever noticed how the Boy Scouts are always at the center of some political or child molestation controversy?  Meanwhile, the Girl Scouts never are.

I'm sure people will blame "the libs," though.

[atomheartbevo 89362]

They better survive this.  My kid will be eligible for Cub Scouts next fall, and we actually like the fact that his sister can follow him a few years later   We did not like the idea of having to deal with Cub Scouts and Girl Scouts.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

They better survive this.  My kid will be eligible for Cub Scouts next fall, and we actually like the fact that his sister can follow him a few years later   We did not like the idea of having to deal with Cub Scouts and Girl Scouts.

It'll be there, but renamed the non gender specific campers of the world (the word America is too controversial and imperialistic, and scout has waaaaay too much of a military sound to it).  

[Celery Man 20873]

You could still blame your culture war opponents for BSA's protection of a serial predator coming back to cripple them financially.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

12 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

You could still blame your culture war opponents for BSA's protection of a serial predator coming back to cripple them financially.

Of course there's blame for the scouts if they knew that shit was happening. Don't confuse my sarcasm for condoning that shit.  Every single kids org in the history of the world has had sexual abuse, and it's been covered up in most of the orgs.  

Hell, many if not most school systems don't prosecute teachers when they have innapropriate relations with students, they just move 'em to another school.  I'm embarrassed to say our county system (Extremely highly rated academically nationally) does this very thing. I have long time friends who are teachers, and they've said that happens.  Your results may vary.  I'd also venture to say every council has this in place, but you have to undergo a police background check before being allowed to participate as an official BSA leader.

If BSA has covered that shit up, then they deserve anything they get.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Onboard 2.0

[HenryJames 65868]

Protecting pedophiles to own the libs.

[Royalfan5 2344]

4-H is far better than Scouts anyway, and it's been Co-ed forever. 

[Pig Bellmont 8679]

30 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Every single kids org in the history of the world has had sexual abuse, and it's been covered up in most of the orgs.  

link?

[Asithappens 974]

The BSA is kind of like the NRA. Both were good, respectable organizations but now have been driven to dark side by evangelicals and right-wing retards. 

The BSA's stance against gay kids (however that stance may have changed) was pathetic, as was their rule against having moms be den leaders. 

[Goredho 17301]

But... but... who is going to feed Reveille?!

[Chad Fuck 17503]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

They better survive this.  My kid will be eligible for Cub Scouts next fall, and we actually like the fact that his sister can follow him a few years later   We did not like the idea of having to deal with Cub Scouts and Girl Scouts.

This.  We're trying to get a new Cub Scout pack up and running at Chad Jr.'s school and the fact that it's co-ed is a huge selling point.  

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

35 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

link?

Yeah cause I don't post a link you don't think it's happened/happening ?  Seriously sex is primal, and deviancy is only a couple steps behind that.  Sexual assault happens every where. You don't know that ?  The office, schools (public and private) sports teams, religions, prisons, reformatory schools, Congress, The Boy Scouts, The Girls scouts (but with less frequency I'd be willing to wager).

Those facts in no way absolves any organization of guilt if it covers it up.  But maybe you should just keep your head in the sand.

[Asithappens 974]

3 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yeah cause I don't post a link you don't think it's happened/happening ?  Seriously sex is primal, and deviancy is only a couple steps behind that.  Sexual assault happens every where. You don't know that ?  The office, schools (public and private) sports teams, religions, prisons, reformatory schools, Congress, The Boy Scouts, The Girls scouts (but with less frequency I'd be willing to wager).

Those facts in no way absolves any organization of guilt if it covers it up.  But maybe you should just keep your head in the sand.

It doesn't absolve them of guilt even if they don't cover it up.

[Degenerate Gardner 4081]

Yeah, well maybe they should get off their asses and start selling some cookies.

[David Dennison 18603]

3 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yeah cause I don't post a link you don't think it's happened/happening ?  Seriously sex is primal, and deviancy is only a couple steps behind that.  Sexual assault happens every where. You don't know that ?  The office, schools (public and private) sports teams, religions, prisons, reformatory schools, Congress, The Boy Scouts, The Girls scouts (but with less frequency I'd be willing to wager).

Those facts in no way absolves any organization of guilt if it covers it up.  But maybe you should just keep your head in the sand.

But it doesn't happen at house parties in suburban Maryland.

That much we know.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, David Dennison said:

But it doesn't happen at house parties in suburban Maryland.

That much we know.

EVERYWHERE, the point was organizations and sexual abuse within their framework.  Houses are private property, you know that right ?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

4 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

It doesn't absolve them of guilt even if they don't cover it up.

I didn't say there isn't legal responsibility, but if someone wants to they'll get around the obstacles an organization puts in place.  

There's a difference in covering up the abuse and trying to hide it to escape culpability.

[phdhorn 6224]

12 minutes ago, Degenerate Gardner said:

Yeah, well maybe they should get off their asses and start selling some cookies.

New entry after the gender change:  Creme-filled Lorna Doones.

[RDCanecutter 26239]

So say BSA goes belly-up. What would stop a group of parents from buying a few old scout manuals, and working through the projects with the kids, taking them on a hike or camp-out?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, RDCanecutter said:

So say BSA goes belly-up. What would stop a group of parents from buying a few old scout manuals, and working through the projects with the kids, taking them on a hike or camp-out?

The kids parents schedules ....... of course.

[RDCanecutter 26239]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

The kids parents schedules ....... of course.

I meant parents who loved their kids.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, RDCanecutter said:

I meant parents who loved their kids.

Ohhhhhhhhh....... thooooose parents......

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

7 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

So say BSA goes belly-up. What would stop a group of parents from buying a few old scout manuals, and working through the projects with the kids, taking them on a hike or camp-out?

On a more serious note. Part of scouting is that kids get out with other kids, away from their parents, and learn how to deal wIth shit on theIr own or in a team, not under the constant, watchful eye of their parents.  

I went on lots of overnight trips with our son during his scouting days, but didn't go on all purposefully to allow him that time away to experience life on his own a bit more. We've become helicopter parents. Some parents go to all their precious snowflakes team practices. Jeebus get a life, let kids have their time to grow on their own a bit.

[Brian Fantana 6654]

I haven't paid much attention lately but if BSA is still a homophobic piece of shit organization that covers up child rape I'll be happy to just let them die.

If not best of luck and hopefully the free market works out for ya.

[freyguy 4245]

Teach your kids how to camp and hunt yourself, you lazy fucks.

[RDCanecutter 26239]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

On a more serious note. Part of scouting is that kids get out with other kids, away from their parents, and learn how to deal wIth shit on theIr own or in a team, not under the constant, watchful eye of their parents.  

I went on lots of overnight trips with our son during his scouting days, but didn't go on all purposefully to allow him that time away to experience life on his own a bit more. We've become helicopter parents. Some parents go to all their precious snowflakes team practices. Jeebus get a life, let kids have their time to grow on their own a bit.

Fer sure. I'm just going worst-case, say it dies, seems like it could be resurrected on a local level, unofficially and without all the scout-branded gear.

Punk Rock Scouting.

[Brisketexan 104462]

26 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

New entry after the gender change:  Creme-filled Lorna Doones.

I think it was the creme-filled cub scouts that got them in trouble.

And, what we're seeing is a large-scale reckoning for organizations that covered up decades of pedophilia (as was the standard practice up until quite recently).  The BSA, Catholic Diocese, Penn State, Michigan State....all of those and more are taking huge hits because of those practices.

Them's the breaks.  They all do, or can do, good and decent things.  But a reckoning will always come.  You can delay it.  But it will ALWAYS show up, it's just a matter of when.  I'd much prefer that organizations 1) do all that's reasonably possible to make whole the victims, and 2) continue to do their good work in a safe and self-aware way.  But if they can't....then they'll die.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, RDCanecutter said:

Fer sure. I'm just going worst-case, say it dies, seems like it could be resurrected on a local level, unofficially and without all the scout-branded gear.

Punk Rock Scouting.

No, I saw the worst case. Kids that were dumped into scouting because the parents didn't take the time to teach their kids or be involved.  I'm just pointing out what gets lost in that scenario a bit.

 

Garage band scouting or pirate scouting..  I like pirate scouting of America. PSA....FOREVER !!!

[Brisketexan 104462]

2 minutes ago, freyguy said:

Teach your kids how to camp and hunt yourself, you lazy fucks.

And this.  I was in scouting when I was young, but the outdoor activities were weak as shit compared to the open desert hunting trips I'd been going on with my dad since I was 2.  I wondered when we were going to shoot stuff and eat it, when we were going to build fires from scratch, when we were going to build deadfall traps.  Those weren't in the offiing for our urban scout troop in the mid-70s.  We tied some knots and shit.  Great.  When do I get a knife and a gun, so I can go full-on Grizzly Adams, bitches?

[wildcat09 29187]

One illegal immigrant kills an American: "WE MUST BUILD A MASSIVE FORTY BILLION DOLLAR WALL TO KEEP ALL OF THEM OUT!"

Boy Scouts spends decades covering up sex abuse: "Slow down now, yeah, this is bad, but the organization is still mostly good and it would be a real shame if it shut down."

[phdhorn 6224]

4 minutes ago, freyguy said:

Teach your kids how to camp and hunt yourself, you lazy fucks.

There is actually a lot of wisdom to this.  (I was a Scout and my kid was until the Weblos... by the way, let's get a new fucking name for this level, I mean really?).

[Brian Fantana 6654]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

One illegal immigrant kills an American: "WE MUST BUILD A MASSIVE FORTY BILLION DOLLAR WALL TO KEEP ALL OF THEM OUT!"

Boy Scouts spends decades covering up sex abuse: "Slow down now, yeah, this is bad, but the organization is still mostly good and it would be a real shame if it shut down."

Onboard is very concerned.

[Spankytoes 1735]

2 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

They better survive this.  My kid will be eligible for Cub Scouts next fall, and we actually like the fact that his sister can follow him a few years later   We did not like the idea of having to deal with Cub Scouts and Girl Scouts.

There are plenty of organizations willing to molest your kid. Not the end of the world

[Spankytoes 1735]

15 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

I haven't paid much attention lately but if BSA is still a homophobic piece of shit organization that covers up child rape I'll be happy to just let them die.

If not best of luck and hopefully the free market works out for ya.

Like the church?

[Celery Man 20873]

can I rely on the corrupt bureaucracy of BSA to teach my kid about libertarianism for me?

[Brian Fantana 6654]

5 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

Like the church?

Well I wasn't gonna say it.

[RDCanecutter 26239]

[OldManStory]Cub scouts in the 60s was fun for artsy-crafty stuff. Webelos was a complete waste, sitting around a church basement getting yelled at to shut up. Boy Scouts was pretty awesome because I caught the tail-end of when it was paramilitary, we had knives and hatchets and made spears and might have thrown them at each other way out in the woods.

Our scoutmaster was from Scotland, had been in the British Army, and occasionally slipped back into that world. 20-mile-hikes up and down crags in the rain and muck, "Step it oot, lads, ye'll get more tired if ye stop and rest."

Then he left, and at the same time the BSA started some pacifist trend, going from Jonny Quest to H.R. Puffnstuff. Little girly berets. Shiny 1970s artwork on clinky little belt thingies to augment manly merit badges. Sitting around inside.

Last time I paid attention, two of my friends were forging their parents' signatures to shoot up the ranks, to the admiration of the scoutmaster. I had quit getting rank, maaaaan. But I did show the punk-ass new kids how to set up tents and build fires. I like fire.[/OMS]

[Chad Fuck 17503]

At the unit level, BSA is basically about getting kids outside and learning how to do shit.  Like any volunteer org, it's basically what the parents make it. It's just another way to keep kids occupied in positive pursuits and out of trouble.  

If the National level BSA files for bankruptcy protection, I highly doubt it will have any significant meaningful affect at the Council or Pack/Troop level.  

 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

4 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

[OldManStory]Cub scouts in the 60s was fun for artsy-crafty stuff. Webelos was a complete waste, sitting around a church basement getting yelled at to shut up. Boy Scouts was pretty awesome because I caught the tail-end of when it was paramilitary, we had knives and hatchets and made spears and might have thrown them at each other way out in the woods.

Our scoutmaster was from Scotland, had been in the British Army, and occasionally slipped back into that world. 20-mile-hikes up and down crags in the rain and muck, "Step it oot, lads, ye'll get more tired if ye stop and rest."

Then he left, and at the same time the BSA started some pacifist trend, going from Jonny Quest to H.R. Puffnstuff. Little girly berets. Shiny 1970s artwork on clinky little belt thingies to augment manly merit badges. Sitting around inside.

Last time I paid attention, two of my friends were forging their parents' signatures to shoot up the ranks, to the admiration of the scoutmaster. I had quit getting rank, maaaaan. But I did show the punk-ass new kids how to set up tents and build fires. I like fire.[/OMS]

The 70's was that line that we crossed over into extreme litigation in our society.  Everyone suing everyone over every little lawn dart puncture wound....

Edited December 17, 2018 by Onboard 2.0

[Brisketexan 104462]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

The 70's was that line that we crossed over into extreme litigation in our society.  Everyone suing everyone over every little lawn dart puncture wound....

I don't think it was that at all.  Rather, it was when the "flower child" ethos matured and went mainstream.

I didn't want to sit in a goddamned "lodge" and make arts and crafts.  I wanted to go out in the woods and build shit, break shit, burn shit, hunt, fish, and eat what I killed.  But that wasn't the "kindler, gentler" approach that our culture decided to take then.  Come on, we had the damned Coca Cola commercial about everyone signing in peace and harmony.  It was not a good time for "F that, I wanna be Jeremiah Johnson."

[Celery Man 20873]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I don't think it was that at all.  Rather, it was when the "flower child" ethos matured and went mainstream.

I didn't want to sit in a goddamned "lodge" and make arts and crafts.  I wanted to go out in the woods and build shit, break shit, burn shit, hunt, fish, and eat what I killed.  But that wasn't the "kindler, gentler" approach that our culture decided to take then.  Come on, we had the damned Coca Cola commercial about everyone signing in peace and harmony.  It was not a good time for "F that, I wanna be Jeremiah Johnson."

 

[HenryJames 65868]

29 minutes ago, freyguy said:

Teach your kids how to camp and hunt yourself, you lazy fucks.

Molest your kids yourself.

[Asithappens 974]

12 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

Like the church?

Catholic church. 

And the BSA seems to be more popular with the engineering/autistic crowd. My troop at the time was heavily represented by dads with engineering degrees who produced professional grade pinewood derby cars. The kids didn't do squat. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

I don't think it was that at all.  Rather, it was when the "flower child" ethos matured and went mainstream.

I didn't want to sit in a goddamned "lodge" and make arts and crafts.  I wanted to go out in the woods and build shit, break shit, burn shit, hunt, fish, and eat what I killed.  But that wasn't the "kindler, gentler" approach that our culture decided to take then.  Come on, we had the damned Coca Cola commercial about everyone signing in peace and harmony.  It was not a good time for "F that, I wanna be Jeremiah Johnson."

Well, that's still late 60's and into the early 70's, and flower child may be part of it, but the late 60's early 70's was still the macho man machismo fashion era. Hippy culture was still counter culture, and not mainstream America.

[Asithappens 974]

7 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

The 70's was that line that we crossed over into extreme litigation in our society.  Everyone suing everyone over every little lawn dart puncture wound....

I agree. 

This was caused by several factors, not the least being the over-population of law school graduates. Way too many marginal minds are attempting to "think like a lawyer". That type of "thinking" works in a courtroom, but not so much in real life. 

[Sbbruin 21697]

As the father of a Star Scout on the path to Eagle,  I have been discouraged by the pussification of the scouts in recent years.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

I agree. 

This was caused by several factors, not the least being the over-population of law school graduates. Way too many marginal minds are attempting to "think like a lawyer". That type of "thinking" works in a courtroom, but not so much in real life. 

Yeah Briskets point isn't off base either though.  A combo of lots of social issues. Hell the BSA was probably seen as para military by some quarters (SEE:  Red Dawn).