Screwed up need help

[Bevo 13602]

I needed a 9x30 patio slab poured. Later we will tile it in travertine tile. I put down road grade and had about half the rebar for the job. I used a guy who did a retaining wall for me where I supplied the stone and mortar and he did the work. That job was reasonably priced. Anyway, I asked the guy for a quote. He didn’t send it to me. He got into a car accident and couldn’t start for a few weeks. He said he could get it done this Monday. I said okay. Everything looks fine. He sent me an invoice today for $6000. How much should a 9x30  4” slab cost. What should I pay him? Is there any way to avoid a fight?

[South Austin 52635]

You need to hire Paul Batrice.

[Rusty Shackelford 414]

You should try and negotiate that down. I’m thinking more like $3000-$4000 is a fair price.

[luke duke 6414]

Sounds like you’ll be paying his hospital bills for him.

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

Just don’t pay it.  It will probably be fine. 

[woohorn 1131]

$22/sq. ft. for a patio?

[Bevo 13602]

1 hour ago, woohorn said:

$22/sq. ft. for a patio?

Just for the slab

[horn4life 3784]

Unless he has some signed paperwork it will be difficult to put a mechanic's lein on your house if you do not pay him.  That price is OBSCENE!! Unless it's you mistyped 4 inches and meand 4 feet deep. He fucking needs the money after not working and is hoping to make up time by overbilling you.  Tell him you will see him in court if he insists on pressing the issue.  YOU determine what is a fair price and BE REASONABLE here!  $6K 

THIS was the top lisitng when I put in the term "Cost of a concrete slab in Austin.

According to our concrete slab material estimator, the average minimum cost per square foot of a concrete slab is $1.36 and the maximum is $1.88. By comparison, the price per square foot for a cement slab is $5.50.

2018 Concrete Slab Costs & Types | Concrete Calculator - ImproveNet

I also might simply agree to the price and tell him that as soon as the Travertine is down you will pay him... 😉

[Chewbacca 7787]

Yeah, in the absence of a signed contract it is your word vs his.  He needs to be reasonable.

[Gil Bang 26052]

road grade?  

[Gil Bang 26052]

FYI, he used about 3 1/2 yds of mud.   Probably under $500 worth of material, depending on delivery charge.  If I were you, I'd contact the ready mix company and pay their bill directly.  They have lien rights, and they are highly likely to enforce them. 

[RamjetFDO 10578]

5 hours ago, South Austin said:

You need to hire Paul Batrice.

Just avoid full moons.

[Handcruser 2805]

Yeah, in the absence of a signed contract it is your word vs his.  He needs to be reasonable.

Until all the emails back and forth show up


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

What you got there my man is some first rate top of the line concrete.... I'm assuming of course.  Ho-lee shit.

[Chewbacca 7787]

Until all the emails back and forth show up


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Potentially.

[williemackgarza 1826]

Should run $8-$10 per SF for that small of an area, assuming he provided all subgrade, forming, rebar, concrete, finishing, recking forms.
The concrete company has a minimum/short load fee, usually around $750-$800.
Sound advice to make sure concrete company and rebar supplier is paid first.

[freyguy 4305]

You proceeded with the job w/o the quote?  Oh boy.  You're screwed either way.  What about your safety if you decide not to pay him the full amount?

[Bevo 13602]

5 hours ago, williemackgarza said:

Should run $8-$10 per SF for that small of an area, assuming he provided all subgrade, forming, rebar, concrete, finishing, recking forms.
The concrete company has a minimum/short load fee, usually around $750-$800.
Sound advice to make sure concrete company and rebar supplier is paid first.

Is that number $8-10 pretty accurate or is it more like $5 like Gil stated? I supplied most of the rebar and he purchased (I think) about 5 sticks. I also dug up all the sod and put down the base (road grade). He put up forms and placed the rebar. I had a friend put in a 1500sq ft slab for an office building and it cost him about $5500.

[CooterBrown 18034]

I did an 8x10 a decade ago and it was $1200 cash price. 3x that with inflation says you probably should’ve got a firm price upfront.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Slab on grade not a structural floor slab just a slab on grade. Wondering why you did the rebar pad ?  Around here in central Va. we use Fibermesh concrete.  Fiberglass embedded concrete for garage and patio slabs usually.  Less expensive than a rebar embedded slab.

[SHOOTER12 8836]

23 hours ago, Rusty Shackelford said:

You should try and negotiate that down. I’m thinking more like $3000-$4000 is a fair price.

^^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Or that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[SHOOTER12 8836]

^^^^^^^^^^^or the other^^^^^^^^^^^

[luke duke 6414]

I did an 8x10 a decade ago and it was $1200 cash price. 3x that with inflation says you probably should’ve got a firm price upfront.

I paid $350 for an 8’x14’ about 7 or 8 years ago. It was so cheap because they were doing a big job next door and this was basically leftover concrete and an hour or two of extra labor. I asked him what he would have charged normally and he told me $1500.

[horn4life 3784]

Just in case anyone is looking to put in a 9x30 patio, I will be happy to do it for the low, low price of $5999! With a 50% discount for cash prepayment! 😉

[BottleRocket 647]

Consider this approach.

Get copy of material invoices. Pay supplier yourself. Pay contractor 25% of material costs for his overhead and profit.

Calculate labor hours. 4 men 10 hours each at $25/ hr is $1000 for labor.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

13 minutes ago, BottleRocket said:

Consider this approach.

Get copy of material invoices. Pay supplier yourself. Pay contractor 25% of material costs for his overhead and profit.

Calculate labor hours. 4 men 10 hours each at $25/ hr is $1000 for labor.
 

25% ?   generous you are

[BottleRocket 647]

Happy Holidays!

 

But really I’m just trying to formulate a proposed solution for the OP that he might be able to sell to the contractor without getting punched in the face. Besides, 10% profit and 15% overhead is pretty standard for a small job like this.

[shakahorn 1645]

33 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

25% ?   generous you are

My first thought as well.  If I was on the other side, I'd ask for 25% to start.  So offer 15%, let him come back at 25% and settle at 20.  Still on the generous side, but will eliminate any questions about fairness.  

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

27 minutes ago, shakahorn said:

My first thought as well.  If I was on the other side, I'd ask for 25% to start.  So offer 15%, let him come back at 25% and settle at 20.  Still on the generous side, but will eliminate any questions about fairness.  

20% for a slab is fair all day long. It's a damn slab .

[Bevo 13602]

41 minutes ago, BottleRocket said:

Happy Holidays!

 

But really I’m just trying to formulate a proposed solution for the OP that he might be able to sell to the contractor without getting punched in the face. Besides, 10% profit and 15% overhead is pretty standard for a small job like this.

Thanks for the help. This is what I'm looking for. I think I need to get the pricing for the concrete first and then pay the concrete guy. I can then contact the contractor and make this proposal and go from there. There shouldn't be any hard feelings although I am sure there will be. I'm just trying to do it in a way where there isn't some overblown fight.

[davidg 4038]

17 hours ago, freyguy said:

You proceeded with the job w/o the quote   a signed contract?  Oh boy.  You're screwed either way. 

FIFY

 

And your friend got 5X more area and probably the thicker footings too for less that your original invoice.  I think your high end is that $2700-3000 and that with is with them doing everything.  

Its stupid to do it after the fact but you could get a couple of other quotes and use those for reference to negotiate.

[Whitman 694]

I saw a movie sort of like this once and the wife found a way to negotiate a much better price with the contractor.  I'll be honest though and didn't make it to the very end of the movie.

[Gil Bang 26052]

here in CA. a licensed contractor is in violation of the law if he performs work without a written contract.  I'm curious if TX has something similar.   IIRC, you guys don't really have licensed contractors, so prolly not. 

[Bevo 13602]

4 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

20% for a slab is fair all day long. It's a damn slab .

Hey onboard, what is the going rate for 3 1/2 yards of concrete assuming that is about what he used.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 hours ago, Bevo said:

Hey onboard, what is the going rate for 3 1/2 yards 4of concrete assuming that is about what he used.

Don't know what the rate is down there in Texas,   $60-$90 a yard. 3 1/2 yds may be below a min. delivery depending on the hauler.  1 yd. = a 9 x 9 x 4" slab

[Bevo 13602]

10 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Don't know what the rate is down there in Texas,   $60-$90 a yard. 3 1/2 yds may be below a min. delivery depending on the hauler.  1 yd. = a 9 x 9 x 4" slab 

Thanks. Today, I am going to get the name of the cement company and call and pay them directly. After that I am going to get labor costs (which I have a decent idea about and is easy to estimate with overage if he continues to play games). The other materials are pretty minimal as 3 of the sides were pre-existing (a stamped concrete deck, the house, and a raised gunite wall), I already had most of the rebar, and I had some lumber already back there as well. Then, I will add 20%, cut him a separate check and call it a day. I see no reason to sit there and fight with the guy.

BTW, I thought you were in Texas. Where are you?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 hour ago, Bevo said:

Thanks. Today, I am going to get the name of the cement company and call and pay them directly. After that I am going to get labor costs (which I have a decent idea about and is easy to estimate with overage if he continues to play games). The other materials are pretty minimal as 3 of the sides were pre-existing (a stamped concrete deck, the house, and a raised gunite wall), I already had most of the rebar, and I had some lumber already back there as well. Then, I will add 20%, cut him a separate check and call it a day. I see no reason to sit there and fight with the guy.

BTW, I thought you were in Texas. Where are you?

Central Va. just outside of Richmond. Your plan is solid.  No reason to try to screw the guy 20% is fair (and not saying you're trying to do that at all), just a figure of speech . Smaller jobs can garner higher %'s so if you ended up at 25%, that's not un fair either, and puts you solidly in the right.  He should have never tried to slip that past you. Slab on grade Concrete work is pretty straight forward especially the job you just described.

[Upgrayedd 5821]

2 hours ago, Bevo said:

Thanks. Today, I am going to get the name of the cement company and call and pay them directly. After that I am going to get labor costs (which I have a decent idea about and is easy to estimate with overage if he continues to play games). The other materials are pretty minimal as 3 of the sides were pre-existing (a stamped concrete deck, the house, and a raised gunite wall), I already had most of the rebar, and I had some lumber already back there as well. Then, I will add 20%, cut him a separate check and call it a day. I see no reason to sit there and fight with the guy.

Concrete.  You are paying the concrete vendor.

Get lien waivers from whomever you pay- including the contractor.

20% is more than fair since after the fact the contractor has taken zero risk.

[RMac5 1551]

Do you think the concrete supplier will let you pay the bill? I would be surprised if they do, they would try and protect their customer not knowing what he marked the concrete up.

 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

6 minutes ago, RMac5 said:

Do you think the concrete supplier will let you pay the bill? I would be surprised if they do, they would try and protect their customer not knowing what he marked the concrete up.

 

Call the supplier for their rate of concrete delivered, and add 20% to that, and pay the contractor directly, along with the base labor rate for his work + 20% for the total.

Tell him to look to the courts if he has a problem with that. If he goes that route just make sure you have 3-5 quotes that back up your payment to the guy.

[Steel Shank 9432]

On 12/20/2018 at 12:31 PM, horn4life said:

Unless he has some signed paperwork it will be difficult to put a mechanic's lein on your house if you do not pay him.  That price is OBSCENE!! Unless it's you mistyped 4 inches and meand 4 feet deep. He fucking needs the money after not working and is hoping to make up time by overbilling you.  Tell him you will see him in court if he insists on pressing the issue.  YOU determine what is a fair price and BE REASONABLE here!  $6K 

THIS was the top lisitng when I put in the term "Cost of a concrete slab in Austin.

According to our concrete slab material estimator, the average minimum cost per square foot of a concrete slab is $1.36 and the maximum is $1.88. By comparison, the price per square foot for a cement slab is $5.50.

2018 Concrete Slab Costs & Types | Concrete Calculator - ImproveNet

I also might simply agree to the price and tell him that as soon as the Travertine is down you will pay him... 😉

I don't understand the difference between a cement slab and a concrete slab.

[milkman 428]

Some of these replies/ideas on what you should pay are laughable.

 

If you want to be fair I would pay the guy at least cost + 35%. It’s both of your fault for not having an agreed amount up front.

 

[Gil Bang 26052]

11 minutes ago, Steel Shank said:

I don't understand the difference between a cement slab and a concrete slab.

It's a concrete slab.  Concrete is made up of portland cement (powder), sand, and gravel.  Sometimes other additives too, such as calcium carbonate.  Cement just glues the other shit together. 

[Steel Shank 9432]

1 minute ago, Gil Bang said:

It's a concrete slab.  Concrete is made up of portland cement (powder), sand, and gravel.  Sometimes other additives too, such as calcium carbonate.  Cement just glues the other shit together. 

This is what I don't understand - two different rates:

According to our concrete slab material estimator, the average minimum cost per square foot of a concrete slab is $1.36 and the maximum is $1.88. By comparison, the price per square foot for a cement slab is $5.50.

[Gil Bang 26052]

On 12/22/2018 at 7:22 AM, RMac5 said:

Do you think the concrete supplier will let you pay the bill? I would be surprised if they do, they would try and protect their customer not knowing what he marked the concrete up.

 

So...I'm in California, and lien rights vary from state to state.  Having said that, yes, absolutely 100% the supplier will let you pay the bill, for 2 reasons.

 

1) they want their fucking money

2) they can only lien the job for their actual cost.  They can't lien the job for their cost, plus the contractor's markup.  Out here, the subs and suppliers (concrete, lumber, etc) have to send a notice to the owner saying "hey, we're supplying materials to your job at the cost of X, and if we don't get paid, we're gonna lien your property".  This is to prod the owner to make sure that the contractor doesn't take the money and run without paying the suppliers and subs what they are owed.  You simply ask the concrete supplier for a conditional release, and you pay them the amount stated on that release. 

 

[Gil Bang 26052]

3 minutes ago, Steel Shank said:

This is what I don't understand - two different rates:

According to our concrete slab material estimator, the average minimum cost per square foot of a concrete slab is $1.36 and the maximum is $1.88. By comparison, the price per square foot for a cement slab is $5.50.

authentec frontier gibberish.  There's no such thing as a "cement slab".  There was also no such thing as a "cement pond", but I would have pushed the critters out of the way to lay some pipe on Miss Ellie.  

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

10 minutes ago, milkman said:

Some of these replies/ideas on what you should pay are laughable.

 

If you want to be fair I would pay the guy at least cost + 35%. It’s both of your fault for not having an agreed amount up front.

 

Yeah no way,  35% add on for a job that should have been half that from the start ?  What are you, a contractor ? 

[Gil Bang 26052]

meanwhile, "road grade" remains a mystery. 

[Steel Shank 9432]

2 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

authentec frontier gibberish.  There's no such thing as a "cement slab".  There was also no such thing as a "cement pond", but I would have pushed the critters out of the way to lay some pipe on Miss Ellie.  

Maybe they figure some sucker will pay the higher rate. Appreciate the help.