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The Declining Wealth of the Bottom 90%

Horn Under a Bad Sign

By Horn Under a Bad Sign
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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13414

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I know that estate or death taxes are controversial topics as some (not all) of that wealth has been previously taxed, but that tax also has the side benefit of transferring (stealing) wealth from the wealthy and distributing to others via the govt.  It prevents the accumulation of wealth that will never be spent.

The problem of the uber-wealthy without high taxes is that given enough time and some basic planning, they do nothing but collect more wealth.   Meaning that the middle and lower class have less wealth.  Pay that scenario forward a few generations and top 1% own 99.9% of the world/wealth.   That story can never end well for anyone.

However wealth inequity is not because the wealthy are greedy or corrupt.  The poor have a lot to do with it was well.  A big criticism that I have of some lower middle/poor class is their unwillingness to take some actions to improve their situation.  If you live in a rent-controlled apt in NYC or backwoods WV town and you earn a low wage, you will never get ahead.   Move to a place that has more job prospects or lower costs of living.  People used to move to the US knowing they most likely will never see their family in Europe again.   Today we have people in the US that won't move 2 hours away in order to improve their life.

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ADHD

ADHD 28

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Who wants to pick up and move from your family etc just for a (short lived) job and a lonely life in unfamiliar parts of America .. 

Developers want you too. The American family is spread out and estranged to each other, all of us paying way too much for mortgages and rent. 

Europe doesn't operate this way. The idea that an Austinite has to pick up and move to North Dakota because Californians have to pick up and move to Austin is why America is in crisis mode.

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elfenix

elfenix 34171

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13 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I know that estate or death taxes are controversial topics as some (not all) of that wealth has been previously taxed, but that tax also has the side benefit of transferring (stealing) wealth from the wealthy and distributing to others via the govt.  It prevents the accumulation of wealth that will never be spent.

estate taxes are an alternative to income taxes on the people to whom that money is income (the beneficiaries) who have not been taxed on that income.  it's a ginormous fucking tax break. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18660

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7 minutes ago, ADHD said:

Who wants to pick up and move from your family etc just for a (short lived) job and a lonely life in unfamiliar parts of America .. 

Developers want you too. The American family is spread out and estranged to each other, all of us paying way too much for mortgages and rent. 

Europe doesn't operate this way. The idea that an Austinite has to pick up and move to North Dakota because Californians have to pick up and move to Austin is why America is in crisis mode.

Divide and conquer. Family alienation is a major tenet of capitalism. More households equals more consumers. 

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13414

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5 minutes ago, ADHD said:

Who wants to pick up and move from your family etc just for a (short lived) job and a lonely life in unfamiliar parts of America .. 

Developers want you too. The American family is spread out and estranged to each other, all of us paying way too much for mortgages and rent. 

Europe doesn't operate this way. The idea that an Austinite has to pick up and move to North Dakota because Californians have to pick up and move to Austin is why America is in crisis mode.

Actually many people have to sacrifice to move their life ahead.  I didn't want to come to work today but I had to in order to earn my paycheck.   Yes, no one wants to move away for a short term job but successful people realize that life isn't handed to them.   Work hard today to make tomorrow easier.

I've been around some people that take a job for a year, but then get sick of the job or boss so they quit.  then pick up another job in 3 months.  Then after 10 years of that pattern, they complain that rich people have everything and they can't get ahead or earn that promotion.   No, it's 100% your fault for wanting a nomad life plus a big salary.    I don't care if someone doesn't want to sacrifice but don't complain because life isn't handed to you on your terms.  

I like Europe but don't paint Europe as some panacea without problems.  Some of their countries on the verge of disaster.   Italy will collapse worse than Spain, Ireland or Greece in the next 2-5 years without an unprecedented aide package from the EU.  Scandinavia seems to be in good shape but that is due to ridiculous oil reserves (Norway) or having much higher educated work forces and relatively small populations.

 

 

 

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13414

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2 minutes ago, ADHD said:

And the corporate model no longer rewards you for loyalty or hard work.

Agree to a point.  And as long as you know that, you can use the Corp model to still get ahead.  

Moving to a different city is not abandoning your family especially if it allows you to succeed.   If they feel you’re abandoning them, then maybe you’re not losing anything by moving. 

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13414

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3 minutes ago, ADHD said:

Moving to a different city is a stupid norm. What a waste of resorces etc having everybody live alone. You never see siblings etc again this way. It's one of the reasons Americans are so unhappy, suicidal and violent.

No one ever said you had to move far far away to live alone to get ahead. But you also sound very entitled. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18660

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1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Agree to a point.  And as long as you know that, you can use the Corp model to still get ahead.  

Moving to a different city is not abandoning your family especially if it allows you to succeed.   If they feel you’re abandoning them, then maybe you’re not losing anything by moving. 

This is a fine notion in theory, but in practice it has unfortunate effects on elderly parents in this country who often find themselves alone after they are widowed. It's even more of an issue when seniors can no longer care for themselves. 

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11555

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5 minutes ago, ADHD said:

Moving to a different city is a stupid norm. What a waste of resorces etc having everybody live alone. You never see siblings etc again this way. It's one of the reasons Americans are so unhappy, suicidal and violent.

Have you read the Holidays Bitch about your Family thread?

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ADHD

ADHD 28

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1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

No one ever said you had to move far far away to live alone to get ahead. But you also sound very entitled. 

Yeah, I'm an American. I've also moved all over this country and except for the boom and bust towns, it's all the same.

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Sgt Hulk

Sgt Hulk 13648

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10 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Agree to a point.  And as long as you know that, you can use the Corp model to still get ahead.  

Moving to a different city is not abandoning your family especially if it allows you to succeed.   If they feel you’re abandoning them, then maybe you’re not losing anything by moving. 

I tend to agree, I've spoken to many here in southern cal on the brink of collapse due to outrageous rents and COL but refuse to move to another part of the country where the cost of living is lower,  there are even folks here who work and have jobs but live in tent city, they say the weather is too nice to leave   but then complain about inequality and simultaneously do nothing to improve upon their own lives.  I dunno  to each their own, someone will always complain, all we have control of here is our own lives and choices,  some make better ones than others 

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

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What country of more than 100 million or so citizens has a better standard of living for low income folks than the USA?

our low income folks have shelter, utilities, and seem to manage to consume an excess amount of calories judging by the facebook thread.  

You want a full style cradle to grave safety net like the Nordic model?  Ignore the fact that they are small countries full of highly educated Northern Europeans with a ton of natural resources.  Their tax structure is a lot flatter than ours.  So to afford it they aren’t just taxing the rich.  They tax the fuck out of everyone.  The biggest tax increases wouldn’t be to the rich under their model.  It would be too everyone else.  

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

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3 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

The same because they have McDonalds and WalMart?

Because California, Iowa and South Carolina are nothing alike.

Depends.  Parts of South Carolina and Iowa shit all over parts of California.  You ever been to Bakersfield?  Compare that to Charleston.  

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18660

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1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

What country of more than 100 million or so citizens has a better standard of living for low income folks than the USA?

our low income folks have shelter, utilities, and seem to manage to consume an excess amount of calories judging by the facebook thread.  

You want a full style cradle to grave safety net like the Nordic model?  Ignore the fact that they are small countries full of highly educated Northern Europeans with a ton of natural resources.  Their tax structure is a lot flatter than ours.  So to afford it they aren’t just taxing the rich.  They tax the fuck out of everyone.  The biggest tax increases wouldn’t be to the rich under their model.  It would be too everyone else.  

That sounds perfect.

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11555

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Just now, Johnny Sack said:

Depends.  Parts of South Carolina and Iowa shit all over parts of California.  You ever been to Bakersfield?  Compare that to Charleston.  

It wasn't a commentary on the quality of any of the 3.  It was a response to, "everywhere in America is the same".  Which it really isn't.

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ADHD

ADHD 28

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6 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

The same because they have McDonalds and WalMart?

Because California, Iowa and South Carolina are nothing alike.

They're really the same. Central CA is Iowa plus Mexicans. I've been to North Carolina, it reminds me of Northern CA.

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

That sounds exactly perfect.

We put all our low income people in prison, eventually.

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ADHD

ADHD 28

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1 minute ago, Incredulity said:

It wasn't a commentary on the quality of any of the 3.  It was a response to, "everywhere in America is the same".  Which it really isn't.

Yes it fucking is. It has the same infrastructure, billboards and life choices. Really only politics, genetics & climate are different.

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Chrispy

Chrispy 132

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7 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

 

I tend to agree, I've spoken to many here in southern cal on the brink of collapse due to outrageous rents and COL but refuse to move to another part of the country where the cost of living is lower,  there are even folks here who work and have jobs but live in tent city, they say the weather is too nice to leave   but then complain about inequality and simultaneously do nothing to improve upon their own lives.  I dunno  to each their own, someone will always complain, all we have control of here is our own lives and choices,  some make better ones than others 

Hey man, all they need is tasty waves and a cool buzz. 

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Firemans4Horn

Firemans4Horn 17834

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We have an impending retirement crisis that’s barely talked about. The risk transfer from DB plans to 401(k) has put the responsibilty on the individual and most have failed horribly to squirrel away enough money and stay invested in age appropriate investments. 

Fidelity did a study earlier this year that the average 65 year old couple will spend $280k in healthcare in the remaining years of their lives. Contrast that with this study:

 

Nearly half of Americans are at risk of retiring broke. That's according to a survey by GOBankingRates, which found that 42 percent of Americans have less than $10,000 tucked away for their golden years. 

Another report from the Economic Policy Institute (EPI), using 2013 data, also found that many Americans are highly unprepared for retirement. The EPI looked at the mean and median retirement savings of working-age families, which it defines as those with wage-earners between 32 and 61 years old.

The mean retirement savings for these families is $95,776 in 2013 dollars. That sounds considerable but, as the EPI points out, that number doesn't tell the whole story. Since so many families have zero savings and since super-savers can pull up the average, the median savings, or those at the 50th percentile, may be a better gauge. And the median for all working-age families in the U.S. is just $5,000.

www.cnbc.com%2F2018%2F04%2F23%2Fhow-much-us-families-have-in-retirement-savings-and-how-much-they-need.html&psig=AOvVaw0oiWA1mcI29pF2ibvWQLzB&ust=1545503939155193

https://www.fidelity.com/about-fidelity/employer-services/a-couple-retiring-in-2018-would-need-estimated-280000

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ADHD

ADHD 28

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We do need to become more Northern European, absolutely. Those people are apple cheeked, healthy and happy. And they dress better and have nicer things than most Americans. I see them all the time as tourists in Cali. They look great. They have money and they are technologically ahead of Americans. Plus they rake their forrests.

Whatever those euro fags are doing, it is working.

Honestly, we should all become more Canadian.

 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18660

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1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

White Northern Europeans tend to well in this world.  So when your society is nothing but those people, it’s really not an apt comparison. Why do you think they have such racist immigration policies?   

That doesn't mean we can't model our society on theirs without being racist. It just takes some effort.

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