2023 Republican Government Shutdown: Same Shit, Same Story

[Anastasis 23469]

8 minutes ago, Js1 said:

No one wants to be the President who passed an executive order that planes could fly without security/TSA, because you're on the hook for the first bad thing that goes wrong. 

Heaven forbid somebody get 3.5oz of toothpaste through the line. Shut it down.  Shut it all down. 

[Js1 85310]

8 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I don't see anything precluding the forcing of an up/down vote in Jefferson's Senate rules.  But I only did a superficial skim. https://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/resources/pdf/SDoc103-8.pdf

There should be a mechanism for the minority part to force a vote, it shouldn't even require that the other chamber pass a bill imo. 

 

Yup.  The House has the discharge petition option, which takes 218 votes.  Should be something similar for the Senate that requires 51 votes to force it out of committee and onto the floor.

[Js1 85310]

8 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Heaven forbid somebody get 3.5oz of toothpaste through the line. Shut it down.  Shut it all down. 

Air Marshalls are under the TSA umbrella, fyi.

[Francisco 2.0 32389]

18 minutes ago, Js1 said:

No one wants to be the President who passed an executive order that planes could fly without security/TSA, because you're on the hook for the first bad thing that goes wrong. 

 

Well, here we are.  If there were ever such a President who could care less what happens when something goes wrong, we have our litmus test in office this very moment.

 

[mdmost 43001]

33 minutes ago, immamac said:

Serious question, I haven't been able to find the answer. 

Is TSA actually mandatory for airline travel? I'm not talking from a fundamental safety perspective I mean can planes literally not fly if TSA doesn't check the passengers? 

Just to posit how crazy he is, would there be any way he could give an executive order to bypass security and allow planes to keep flying? 

I know if ATC stop showing up the music stops.

The TSA was created in response to 9/11 through the Aviation and Transportation Security Act. It was folded into the Department of Homeland Security when that department was created in 2002. Before that, airline passenger screening was the responsibility of the airlines who contracted that out to private firms.

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

24 minutes ago, Js1 said:

No one wants to be the President who passed an executive order that planes could fly without security/TSA, because you're on the hook for the first bad thing that goes wrong. 

LOL, you act like facts matter.

*Trump waives TSA requirement*

*worst-case terrorist attack/hijacking/etc. occurs*

*Fox News blames Democrats because Trump wouldn't have had to waive the requirement if they just agreed to wall in first place*

*Trump tweets that this is just more proof of how unsafe we are*

*60 million Americans nod their heads*

Edited January 16, 2019 by Chuckie Finster

[woohorn 1131]

I am shocked to find out that the tsa functions just fine with 25% less staff.

Next you'll tell me that all of those people standing around on roadway projects aren't necessary.

[Nivek 16923]

Serious question, I haven't been able to find the answer. 
Is TSA actually mandatory for airline travel? I'm not talking from a fundamental safety perspective I mean can planes literally not fly if TSA doesn't check the passengers? 
Just to posit how crazy he is, would there be any way he could give an executive order to bypass security and allow planes to keep flying? 
I know if ATC stop showing up the music stops.

And if anything negative happens due to the shutdown during that time? There would be no way to recover politically.

Tsa should shutdown the airports surrounding DC and target the hubs and major international airports.

The system is broken and it has been broken by a single party. Putin and Alexy are sitting back enjoying this while the US and UK are fumble fucking around. Russians got their ass kicked in Syria, but they played us like a fiddle. I wish we could just deport all trump and gop voters.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

51 minutes ago, immamac said:

Serious question, I haven't been able to find the answer. 

Is TSA actually mandatory for airline travel? I'm not talking from a fundamental safety perspective I mean can planes literally not fly if TSA doesn't check the passengers? 

Just to posit how crazy he is, would there be any way he could give an executive order to bypass security and allow planes to keep flying? 

I know if ATC stop showing up the music stops.

 My guess is that there is a delegation of authority into some executive department, and that there is a federal regulation that requires it. This means it would be an APA issue and you would just have to do a rule change under the APA. 

[Nivek 16923]

I am shocked to find out that the tsa functions just fine with 25% less staff.

Next you'll tell me that all of those people standing around on roadway projects aren't necessary.

Define fine? Does 1.5 hour long security screening lines seem fine to you?

[Anastasis 23469]

Something about all this makes me think that maybe the federal government shouldn't be given broad and unquestioned control over essential functions of daily life. 

[Mole 4330]

10 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Define fine? Does 1.5 hour long security screening lines seem fine to you?
 

No one likes a play that lasts too long.

[Pancho 44757]

Uhh how many plans must dems bring?

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

9 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Something about all this makes me think that maybe the federal government shouldn't be given broad and unquestioned control over essential functions of daily life. 

Thank goodness we live in a representative democracy where we can make informed decisions to change the government if necessary.  

/sarcasm 

[relapse98 634]

12 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’m not sure this would have been avoidable even if the Democrats won the Senate in 2018.

But they could have brought up the bill for a vote in both houses and put it squarely on the shoulders of the guy that said he would take the blame but suprise, once again, he lied.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 minute ago, relapse98 said:

But they could have brought up the bill for a vote in both houses and put it squarely on the shoulders of the guy that said he would take the blame but suprise, once again, he lied.

It would have played out differently but it’s uncertain if the outcome would be the same. 

It may have been a bigger war between the two branches of government.  

We will never know but it’s just another reminder of how much Trump is overtly abusing his power and completely ignoring the wishes of the majority of the population he supposedly governs. 

[Biff Tannen 45673]

50 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Air Marshalls are under the TSA umbrella, fyi.

[High Plains Drifter 11035]

11 hours ago, bolverk said:

I've often thought of him as the love child of Chauncey Gardner and Archie Bunker.

 

Except at the end of the show, Archie ends up doing the right thing. Plus, Archie makes the MAGA0ts look like geniuses.

 

 

24 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Something about all this makes me think that maybe the federal government shouldn't be given broad and unquestioned control over essential functions of daily life. 

 

Something about all this tells me budgets should be automatically continued unless specifically changed by Congress and signed by the President.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13581]

35 minutes ago, woohorn said:

I am shocked to find out that the tsa functions just fine with 25% less staff.

Next you'll tell me that all of those people standing around on roadway projects aren't necessary.

I know I never post from work!

[Anastasis 23469]

Just now, High Plains Drifter said:

Something about all this tells me budgets should be automatically continued unless specifically changed by Congress and signed by the President.

We'd probably be operating under mid 1990s budget in that case. 

[lemonlime 5503]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

Serious question, I haven't been able to find the answer. 

Is TSA actually mandatory for airline travel? I'm not talking from a fundamental safety perspective I mean can planes literally not fly if TSA doesn't check the passengers? 

Just to posit how crazy he is, would there be any way he could give an executive order to bypass security and allow planes to keep flying? 

I know if ATC stop showing up the music stops.

The security theater of the TSA is pointless, except for the theater aspects.  But essentially announcing that there will be no (or extremely limited) airport security at all would be a huge invitation to anyone who wants to do damage that here's your two week window.   No politician would want to be responsible for what could happen.

It would shut down travel essentially anyway.  Highly unlikely that businesses would be having their employees travel if there's no airport security.

[Bama Chick 28596]

And lovely to hear a representative from the air traffic controllers union on CNN this morning state unequivocally that air travel is demonstrably less safe because of the shutdown and continues to get more unsafe each day.

And her statement had nothing to do with TSA screening and everything to do with stressed and overwhelmed air traffic controllers and the lack of support and maintenance personnel.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13581]

47 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Something about all this makes me think that maybe the federal government shouldn't be given broad and unquestioned control over essential functions of daily life. 

The party that has a vested interest in proving government can't do anything right is making you question the role of government in our lives. Did not see that coming.

[immamac 42839]

I get all the discussion around it would be political suicide to circumvent TSA to keep air travel going, but I'm still not sure where if anywhere there is a law/regulation that would prohibit air travel sans TSA (lets say airlines hire private security and add a pass through cost) 

Is there anything specifically stating that air travel cannot happen with passengers that did not go through TSA? During my research any aircraft under 12500lb or something like that doesn't have to have TSA checks at all. I'm genuinely curious about the TSA now and what role it actually plays in Blocking air travel if they don't show up.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

Just now, immamac said:

I get all the discussion around it would be political suicide to circumvent TSA to keep air travel going, but I'm still not sure where if anywhere there is a law/regulation that would prohibit air travel sans TSA (lets say airlines hire private security and add a pass through cost) 

 Is there anything specifically stating that air travel cannot happen with passengers that did not go through TSA? During my research any aircraft under 12500lb or something like that doesn't have to have TSA checks at all. I'm genuinely curious about the TSA now and what role it actually plays in Blocking air travel if they don't show up.

I just did a CFR search when you asked and saw regulations that say safety plans are done at the airport level and approved by TSA.  You can have changes but they have to be approved by TSA.  There was a short term and long term change (above / below 60 days) procedure depending on the length of the change.  So it looks to me that they are required to have a security plan, TSA approves it, if there is any variation from the plan, it has to be submitted and approved.  The regulations detail what has to be in the plan, but not the level of security.  So it seems that as long as TSA signs off on it, the airport can do whatever is necessary.

[Ghost of LL 15531]

30 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

And lovely to hear a representative from the air traffic controllers union on CNN this morning state unequivocally that air travel is demonstrably less safe because of the shutdown and continues to get more unsafe each day.

And her statement had nothing to do with TSA screening and everything to do with stressed and overwhelmed air traffic controllers and the lack of support and maintenance personnel.

My brother-in-law is an air-traffic controller.  He strongly counsels against flying right now.

[immamac 42839]

wow, just wow. Just pontificating, but that wouldn't be very hard to get around in a "politically friendly" way if there was say a friend in the TSA that would sign off?

SO we should be looking at ATC and seeing when they start dropping like flies and not TSA - I have a feeling if airport lines get too long they will just "relax" some aspect of it to get people through much quicker

[Hank Kingsley 20918]

 

[Fudge Nuggets 19190]

57 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It may have been a bigger war between the two branches of government.  

I think the problem is there isn't a bigger war between the two branches of government.  Until Turtle McTurtleFuck gets off his ass and allows a vote then the legislative branch is on the sidelines no matter how much the House tries to get something on the table.

[lemonlime 5503]

25 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

I think the problem is there isn't a bigger war between the two branches of government.  Until Turtle McTurtleFuck gets off his ass and allows a vote then the legislative branch is on the sidelines no matter how much the House tries to get something on the table.

Or a few GOP senators instead of "being troubled" tm, caucus with the dems to bring this to the floor.  Every GOP member of the Senate is complicit in this.  Nothing's forcing them to abide by the turtle's asshattery.

[CO Horn 156]

13 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

so i was at heb, waiting to buy a sixer of lone star in the express aisle. i glance over to the self-check aisle and see a uniformed TSA officer buying a handful of items obviously for her dinner. 

then i witnessed a guy about to check out notice her, and he took his few items over to her and (i couldn't hear what he said, so this is assumption) "let's combine these and let me pay for them."

i watched as she scanned her items, then he scanned his and paid for all of it. 

now it wasn't much - she probably had $10 worth of items.

but it kind of made my day. people are still good out here.

A number of restaurants here are offering free lunches to government employees.  The Denver ATC Center is here so there are a number of employees affected by the shutdown.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

37 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

Or a few GOP senators instead of "being troubled" tm, caucus with the dems to bring this to the floor. 

That would take real political courage, something the GOP has been void of since forever. 

[Captainant 27653]

3 hours ago, immamac said:

Serious question, I haven't been able to find the answer. 

Is TSA actually mandatory for airline travel? I'm not talking from a fundamental safety perspective I mean can planes literally not fly if TSA doesn't check the passengers? 

Just to posit how crazy he is, would there be any way he could give an executive order to bypass security and allow planes to keep flying? 

I know if ATC stop showing up the music stops.

TSA isn't mandatory (by statute) for airline travel, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a line item on their insurance that required it. ATC is a big concern, but we're officially at the point where FAA inspectors and engineers aren't fully staffed so it's possible and likely that there may be birds in the air that aren't airworthy, which is a disaster waiting to happen.

[retread 2951]

Hoyer just said on CNN that the House has sent 7 bills (8 by tomorrow) to the Senate. None have received a Senate vote. smdh

[relapse98 634]

18 minutes ago, Captainant said:

FAA inspectors and engineers aren't fully staffed so it's possible and likely that there may be birds in the air that aren't airworthy, which is a disaster waiting to happen.

The free market will take care of that.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13510]

19 minutes ago, Captainant said:

TSA isn't mandatory (by statute) for airline travel, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a line item on their insurance that required it. ATC is a big concern, but we're officially at the point where FAA inspectors and engineers aren't fully staffed so it's possible and likely that there may be birds in the air that aren't airworthy, which is a disaster waiting to happen.

good point.  If you ask United or American to take on more risk because the passengers and baggage hasven't been adequately screened, I would assume their legal and risk mgmt depts will not sign off on that change.

[Brisketexan 105095]

3 minutes ago, relapse98 said:

The free market will take care of that.

Actually, in this case, I think it will - at least for all the US carriers I can think of.  There's a robust enough risk outside of the regulatory environment that the dropoff in maintenance and QC shouldn't be too much in the near-term.  If this goes on for a year, then maybe bigger problems.  But SWA doesn't want to have an engine fall off because that's bad for business.  FAA inspections are secondary to that desire.

That said, this situation is still sub-optimal in that respect.

[Js1 85310]

32 minutes ago, retread said:

Hoyer just said on CNN that the House has sent 7 bills (8 by tomorrow) to the Senate. None have received a Senate vote. smdh

"DeMoCrAtS nEeD tO pRoViDe MoRe SoLuTiOnS" - Sarah Huckabeef Sandwich

[retread 2951]

Meanwhile, Cheeto has normalized not paying 800k federal workers, including some members of our military.

[elfenix 34230]

5 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Would it shock you to learn that Mitch is an Alabama native who headed north to Kentucky? A rare reverse carpetbagger. (To be fair, he moved to KY at 14, but he's far more Bama than Kaintuck)

everything south of the ohio river is pennsyltucky anyway. 

 

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Something about all this makes me think that maybe the federal government shouldn't be given broad and unquestioned control over essential functions of daily life. 

republicans: government is so big it can do terrible things

also republicans, when in government: look at all these terrible things we're doing to you now that we're in power

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Nothing says “Party of small government” like holding the taxpayers hostage for a 2,000 mile concrete border wall.

[Homercles 10205]

Hoyer just said on CNN that the House has sent 7 bills (8 by tomorrow) to the Senate. None have received a Senate vote. smdh

Party of No continues

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

The party of treason 

[GSU&UT 1798]

Someone needs to just fucking lay out McConnell on the floor right now, the sight of him makes me angry.

[Captainant 27653]

Oh good, I already called Cruz and Cornyn's offices this morning about taking away family owned land to build a border wall through executive action - now I can ask why they're voting to allow sanctions to be lifted against russian oligarchs.

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

nObOdY iS tOuGhEr On RuSsIa *fart noise*

[Pig Bellmont 8712]

11 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The party of treason 

I’m getting closer to joining brisket in the “we’re all fucked” camp. 

[relapse98 634]

11 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

Someone needs to just fucking lay out McConnell on the floor right now, the sight of him makes me angry.

I don't normally condone violence, but if someone went all Charles Sumner on him, I wouldn't cry.