2023 Republican Government Shutdown: Same Shit, Same Story

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 hour ago, Whitman said:

If McConnell had the votes to over-ride the guaranteed veto he would put the bill on the floor tonight.  The Senate does not have the 2/3 votes with the current House Bill, so it would just be theatre.  I thought I read something earlier today where there was talk of individual bills for certain depts, but then read that Trump said he would veto those if it was done.  Something has to give whether it is a few more Senators or a different bill.

Lie.

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 hour ago, Whitman said:

No, it was said here passed.  It has not passed the current Congress and simply needs to. 

PS: I think the ERA passed the 37th state last year.  Will it now be added to the Constitutional Amendments?

The ERA! Fuck off defelection troll. Why are you here?

Edited January 15, 2019 by JimmyJames

[Whitman 694]

6 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

The ERA! Fuck off defelection troll. Why are you here?

It is apparent that you don't know the meaning of the word deflection.  We were talking about passing legislation and the timing of such.  The amendment issue is exactly that.  There are time frames in the rules.  That was an example recently.  If some don't like them, then get them changed.

 

As to why I am here, why shouldn't I be here.  The mods or owners have never asked me to leave, and your opinion of my presence means little to nothing to me.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Whitman

[Judge Roybeanbag 11796]

The bill would pass the senate and they do have the votes to override it.  That’s precisely why that pussy won’t let it come to the floor.  

[Whitman 694]

2 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

The bill would pass the senate and they do have the votes to override it.    

I'm glad that you are privy to that information.  I didn't know that anyone was or see it published anywhere.

[bolverk 29360]

7 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

In fairness, AfD would like a word with you.....

I realize I'm 7 hours late in responding to this according to Surly time. It was a busy day, so please forgive me. AfD's base is in the former East Germany that we had no control over in reforming. The former West Germany remains pretty dang liberal and accepting to immigrants by European standards.

Quick CSB: I, along with about 30 other Texas Tceh undergrads who were also studying German (my minor), spent the summer of 1993 living with families in a small East German farm village of about 800 called Wust (near Tangermunde, Magdeburg and Rathenow) as part of a German language program. Mind you, this was only a 2-3 years after the formal process of reunification.

Our particular village was really open to our presence likely because we spent so much money buying their beer and they were still desperately poor by Western standards. Plus, we were living among them and they were just as fascinated by us as we were by them. However, there was a neighboring village where a group of teenage boys had ALREADY established a Nazi-type attitude, which the local teenagers in Wust later had to explain to us.

Anyway, one night shortly after our arrival, everyone between the ages of 15-25 were at the community center next to the soccer fields drinking, carrying on, having a good time when the other neighboring village dudes (whom we hadn't previously met) showed up. They seemed pleasant enough to us at first - granted we were 95% Anglo - and we all drank and spoke in the best German we could muster along a long table with benched seating.

Now, I missed the signal that warranted it, but after a couple hours, they all stood up in unison at the table, clicked their heels, gave the Nazi salute, shouted out a vigorous Sieg Heil, and promptly left. We were all completely stunned and were like "WTF?" Of course, only after they left, did the locals tell us they had all been worried at the arrival of the others because they knew full well that they had shown up to cause trouble. Apparently, they ended up liking us though.

My point is that eastern Germany was and still is broken from a social perspective and that the Nazi scourge was never really eradicated in the East as it had been in the West. Just food for thought.

[Rimbo 25752]

1 hour ago, Whitman said:

Deflection or is that actually the current rules of Congress? 

Maybe I misunderstood your post.  Exactly how is it a deflection when talking about passing a bill and then discussing the current rules of how/when it is to be passed and sent to The President?  

[hayden_horn 11360]

2 minutes ago, Whitman said:

I'm glad that you are privy to that information.  I didn't know that anyone was or see it published anywhere.

you obtuse or something?

this bill that the house passed, and that mcconnell will not allow up for a vote was 100-0 in FAVOR in the senate, before trump said he did not support it. IT WAS THE COMPROMISE!

fucking goddammit, why do i respond to idiots and trolls?

[Celery Man 20874]

 

[wildcat09 29187]

1 hour ago, Whitman said:

If McConnell had the votes to over-ride the guaranteed veto he would put the bill on the floor tonight.  The Senate does not have the 2/3 votes with the current House Bill, so it would just be theatre.  I thought I read something earlier today where there was talk of individual bills for certain depts, but then read that Trump said he would veto those if it was done.  Something has to give whether it is a few more Senators or a different bill.

This needs to be negged to Bolivia.

[Whitman 694]

3 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

you obtuse or something?

this bill that the house passed, and that mcconnell will not allow up for a vote was 100-0 in FAVOR in the senate, before trump said he did not support it. IT WAS THE COMPROMISE!

fucking goddammit, why do i respond to idiots and trolls?

Not obtuse, just pointing out that people like to play with or omit words.   You did here too when you left out the word "THIS" before senate.  And now that Trump won't support it, I don't know what the vote would be.  Parties seem to stick together for good or bad.

[Doc Sam Beckett 5781]

6 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

you obtuse or something?

this bill that the house passed, and that mcconnell will not allow up for a vote was 100-0 in FAVOR in the senate, before trump said he did not support it. IT WAS THE COMPROMISE!

fucking goddammit, why do i respond to idiots and trolls?

Sooooo not THIS senate, right?!?!? Just asking dipshit questions... 

[gmr548 16463]

Just now, Whitman said:

Not obtuse, just pointing out that people like to play with or omit words.   You did here too when you left out the word "THIS" before senate.  And now that Trump won't support it, I don't know what the vote would be.  Parties seem to stick together for good or bad.

They passed it and the government shut down days later. They knew Trump wouldn't sign it.

[wildcat09 29187]

Just now, Doc Sam Beckett said:

Sooooo not THIS senate, right?!?!? Just asking dipshit questions... 

Well, you see, the moon is in a different part of the sky now so it’s totally unreasonable to expect 90 people who already voted yes on a bill to now vote yes again. 

[bolverk 29360]

1 minute ago, Whitman said:

Not obtuse, just pointing out that people like to play with or omit words.   You did here too when you left out the word "THIS" before senate.  And now that Trump won't support it, I don't know what the vote would be.  Parties seem to stick together for good or bad.

90% of THIS Senate is that same as THAT Senate.

Are you stating that the exact same individuals would not vote the same way they did just a couple weeks ago when knowing full well that they'll get fried for not doing so? Maybe the Republican base is that dumb.

[hayden_horn 11360]

1 minute ago, Whitman said:

Not obtuse, just pointing out that people like to play with or omit words.   You did here too when you left out the word "THIS" before senate.  And now that Trump won't support it, I don't know what the vote would be.  Parties seem to stick together for good or bad.

do you pay attention to the world around you?

we did just swear in a new congress. you knew that happened, right? it doesn't take too much parliamentary knowledge, nor that much intellectual rigor and curiosity to understand what people here are saying.

this exact bill passed 100-0 in mcconnell's senate. now he won't allow a vote on it. the senate should, theoretically, have a veto-proof majority. 

but they all carry trump's water for some strange reason, so something they whole-heartedly supported in december 2018, they suddenly do not, because trump. it's cowardice, plain and simple, and it is yet again highlighting mcconnell's desire to cede the power of the purse that congress holds to a goddamn tinpot wannabe dictator. because...reasons?

(hint, it's that russian nra money!)

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

The Republicans don’t want to go on record voting against Trump.  That’s like treason with a twitter thrashing in our banana republic now.

[Whitman 694]

9 minutes ago, bolverk said:

90% of THIS Senate is that same as THAT Senate.

Are you stating that the exact same individuals would not vote the same way they did just a couple weeks ago when knowing full well that they'll get fried for not doing so? Maybe the Republican base is that dumb.

I don't know how they each would vote now.  Hell, I never know which way Manchin is going to vote on every bill even though he is a Democrat.  He's all over the place whether he needs to appease the conservative base back home or his caucus needs his vote.   I do know that they only need 67 total, not the 100 they got mentioned above (assuming they can also get 2/3 of the house for the over-ride). 

Edited January 15, 2019 by Whitman

[Chuckie Finster 22583]

4 minutes ago, Whitman said:

I don't know how they each would vote now.  Hell, I never know which way Manchin is going to vote on every bill even though he is a Democrat.  He's all over the place whether he needs to appease the conservative base back home or his caucus needs his vote.   I do know that they only need 67 total, not the 100 they got mentioned above (assuming they can also get 2/3 of the house for the over-ride). 

THEY'VE ALREADY VOTED ON THIS FUCKING BILL.  Even for West Virginia standards, this is a really fucking dumb argument.  

[Js1 85056]

You dumb. You brain dead stupid mountain aggy dipshit 

[bolverk 29360]

1 minute ago, Whitman said:

I don't know how they each would vote now.  Hell, I never know which way Manchin is going to vote on every bill even though he is a Democrat.  I do know that they only need 67 total, not the 100 they got mentioned above (assuming they can also get 2/3 of the house for the over-ride). 

It has ALREADY passed THIS House and has also passed THAT Senate (100-0).

Why won't McConnell bring it up again in THIS Senate? Riddle me this.

It's because he absolutely knows that it'll get the necessary 2/3 votes but is too much a frightened TURTLE to allow it to happen. It is ALL on him at this point from a legislative perspective. He is the ONLY one blocking it from happening.

I don't know how much more clearly this can be stated.

[Whitman 694]

Y'all have a good evening.  I'm sure you will get it worked out.

[bolverk 29360]

1 minute ago, Whitman said:

Y'all have a good evening.  I'm sure you will get it worked out.

Don't you run away. Read it. Absorb it. Know it.

McConnell is keeping the federal government hostage to protect Trump.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Huh.

TIL I can add West Virginia to my “Thank God for Mississippi and Louisiana!” warcry in defense of Alabama.

Nice.

[hayden_horn 11360]

5 minutes ago, Whitman said:

Y'all have a good evening.  I'm sure you will get it worked out.

lulz. you're the one who needs to work it out.

but whatever.

[Chuckie Finster 22583]

5 minutes ago, Whitman said:

Y'all have a good evening.  I'm sure you will get it worked out.

You deserve this public mockery.  TTLP.

[Whitman 694]

1 minute ago, bolverk said:

Don't you run away. Read it. Absorb it. Know it.

McConnell is keeping the federal government hostage to protect Trump.

I read it and do see it as McConnell not putting it up for a new vote with this Senate.  If that's the rules then work to change them or the people.  

[bolverk 29360]

2 minutes ago, Whitman said:

If that's the rules then work to change them or the people.  

 

We're doing our best, but there's a certain subset of the population who seems completely impervious to truth, logic, and facts.

[gmr548 16463]

11 minutes ago, bolverk said:

It has ALREADY passed THIS House and has also passed THAT Senate (100-0).

Why won't McConnell bring it up again in THIS Senate? Riddle me this.

It's because he absolutely knows that it'll get the necessary 2/3 votes but is too much a frightened TURTLE to allow it to happen. It is ALL on him at this point from a legislative perspective. He is the ONLY one blocking it from happening.

I don't know how much more clearly this can be stated.

He has said as much. His stance is that he won't bring anything that Trump won't sign. It isn't that there is a vote count issue, that he doesn't agree with the politics, whatever... He is protecting Trump from being between a rock and a hard place, and is being pretty open about it. I'm not sure what mountain aggy does not understand.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

Well, that was fun..... Whitman needs a less on political strategy and the tactics used.  

Moving on..... Two zombie wooden cutouts came across as more believable than the orange scrotum.

 

[SimonBolivar 10898]

This is what happens when the top 2 schools in your state are WVU and Marshall.

[Guest Lobo]

Top?   You mean only?  

At lest WVU is actually chartered as the West Virginia University.   The University of Oklahoma saw their charter and seal and thought, “what if we couldn’t read?”...

[atomheartbevo 89362]

I feel bad for the folks working without pay, but damn a part of me wants to see it drag on longer, because Mitch appears wilingl to sacrifice the GOP to appease Trump. 

There’s got to be more than a few vulnerable R Senators who are talking to their Democratic colleagues about some kind of solution. 

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

So..... Trump tried to go around Nancy and speak to moderate House Dems in hopes of working out a deal.

They responded:

Grasping at straws....

 

[Mole 4318]

You all are giving Senate Republicans too much of a pass by focusing on the Turtle.

Lets be intellectually honest here. If the same bill actually came up for vote again, it would be something way less than 100-0. They’d lose a lot of votes trying to override a veto. Going against the vague list of grievances that is Trumpism has consequences. Loyalty to is the only coherent part of the ideology.

I suspect that there aren’t enough votes to turn on Trump but I haven’t really thought through any individual senator’s situation. Lots of senators would risk getting primaried and lose to the Trumpkin. The assumption that it would easily pass isn’t grounded in reality and assumes way too much courage and character for most of the senate.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

3 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Huh.

TIL I can add West Virginia to my “Thank God for Mississippi and Louisiana!” warcry in defense of Alabama.

Nice.

Leave Louisiana out of this. Sub in Arkansas.

[Fudge Nuggets 19118]

12 hours ago, DixonHur said:

Confederates should have been tried for treason. 

As a side note, it annoys me to no end to see people rocking both a US flag and the stars and bars.  You literally can't support both the Union and the Confederacy.

The stars and bars, aka the Civil War runner-up pennant.

[DixonHur 11074]

8 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

So..... Trump tried to go around Nancy and speak to moderate House Dems in hopes of working out a deal.

They responded:

Grasping at straws....

 

I guess they don't like day-old fast food leftovers...what a bunch of elitists

[mdmost 42775]

Getting turned down by moderate Dems just to own the libs!

[joe dirt 285]

10 hours ago, gmr548 said:

He has said as much. His stance is that he won't bring anything that Trump won't sign. It isn't that there is a vote count issue, that he doesn't agree with the politics, whatever... He is protecting Trump from being between a rock and a hard place, and is being pretty open about it. I'm not sure what mountain aggy does not understand.

therein lies the answer. 

[triplehorn 2664]

Trump campaign manager Brad Parscale's tweet was that Trump's ratings were rising and the Dems had made a huge mistake in the shutdown battle.

 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

 

[horn4life 3753]

12 hours ago, Whitman said:

Not obtuse, just pointing out that people like to play with or omit words.   You did here too when you left out the word "THIS" before senate.  And now that Trump won't support it, I don't know what the vote would be.  Parties seem to stick together for good or bad.

Uhh... I thought I made it pretty clear a while back.  You can insert any bill, with any words, omit any words. But if that bill has passed a house, AND that bill would end shutdown and what I said is still exactly correct.

Quote

 

The simplest way to describe immigration legislation and this shutdown in the simplest form,  is that a bill passed one house.  That bill would easily pass the other house.  And in each instance a GOP leader of the second house voting refused to allow a vote... because... the bills would pass...

 

 

 

Since further explanation is necessary, it appears that only one party is blocking bills that would pass, and that is the Republican party.  The Senate has RULES which allow the body to block votes via cloture, INDIVIDUAL's leading the house and Senate have repeatedly blocked bills that WOULD pass.  Seemed simple enough to understand... but... I did omit...  THE ONLY reason there is a shutdown is because our President spends most of his day watching Fox news and had an aide tell him Rush Limbaugh said he was making poopie in his diaper...

Edited January 15, 2019 by horn4life

[Pancho 44358]

 

[David Dennison 18604]

11 minutes ago, Pancho Negro said:

 

I wonder why people are blaming Trump and Republicans.

[relapse98 634]

24 minutes ago, Pancho Negro said:

 

Did that happen in THIS senate or THAT senate? HUGE difference, HUGELY!

[Biff Tannen 45477]

26 minutes ago, Pancho Negro said:

 

Round and round we go.

[Post Oak 20182]

I'd send one to the Senate every day

[relapse98 634]

Quote

"The solution to this is a negotiation between the one person in the country who can sign something into law

I don't believe that's true. I do believe congress could work together, cobble together a bill that could pass both houses with a veto proof majority and send it to the idiot, let him veto it, override that veto and voila.

So yeah, do your job, turtle. If the orange retard won't lead, pull your head out of your shell and be a leader.

[WhatTheBuck 28700]

12 hours ago, Mole said:

You all are giving Senate Republicans too much of a pass by focusing on the Turtle.

Lets be intellectually honest here. If the same bill actually came up for vote again, it would be something way less than 100-0. They’d lose a lot of votes trying to override a veto. Going against the vague list of grievances that is Trumpism has consequences. Loyalty to is the only coherent part of the ideology.

I suspect that there aren’t enough votes to turn on Trump but I haven’t really thought through any individual senator’s situation. Lots of senators would risk getting primaried and lose to the Trumpkin. The assumption that it would easily pass isn’t grounded in reality and assumes way too much courage and character for most of the senate.

There would definitely be senate Republicans who would vote against the exact same bill they voted for just a month ago for no other reason than that it was put forward by Democrats this time. But I'll bet they still could pass it and override Trump's veto and I think Mitch agrees. That's why he won't let it come to a vote. Because if he does, and Senate Rs override Trump's veto, then Trump will campaign against Mitch in 2020 along with anyone else who opposed him. Mitch would also do anything rather than to give Pelosi and the House Democrats a win of any kind. Party over country. Always.