2018 Poker run good or die

[CBT 1288]

Lord, what a punt.

[TXSooner518 2440]

Wow, Cada insta-hops in the $1500 Closer with 3000+ entrants after busting the Main and ships it.

[bigup2dahorns 3343]

Amazing by Cada.

And here we go with the million dollar entry OneDrop. Freaking Rick Solomon with the early chip lead and Phil Ivey in 2nd. Some coverage today on PokerGO and espn2.

[AUS-97HORN 11894]

3 hours ago, TXSooner518 said:

Wow, Cada insta-hops in the $1500 Closer with 3000+ entrants after busting the Main and ships it.

dude has some no-bullshit, serious skills,  4th bracelet and 2nd this year

[Buzzrock 15032]

Went to Tilt Poker while visiting my parents in Tyler. Poker club in a storage or commercial real estate complex. Kind of a shithole but don’t really care. They have the WSOP on the TV and figured I could kill a few hours. $10 daily membership or $25 monthly. I get a daily and a seat at $9/hour. One hand of note: I have 9d9h UTG +2. 2 limps ahead of me (playing 1/2 NL). I make it $15 - 2 calls, flop 10d9s3s. I bet $25, folds to button who makes it $125. I think about it and shove for about $220 total. He tanks for a while, tells me that He has put me on a flush draw but he has the nut flush draw and I smile. He calls and asks to run it twice. I boat up on both, turn it over and rake about $500. He rolled over KsQs and made a flush on both run outs. Felt kinda bad but I think I played it right. Thoughts on my play here? Other than that, was kinda card dead. Had AK once and some suited connectors and won a few Bought in for $300, cashed out $1021 after paying $24 for my seat. Nice little $720 profit for 2.5 hours. Had some fun as well. Bunch of old man coffees. My dad and FIL played as well. Dad made about $100 and FIL had quads twice and made about $525. Fun night, will do it again when I’m here for thanksgiving.

Can you explain “run it twice”? I’ve never heard of that.

[TXSooner518 2440]

9 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Can you explain “run it twice”? I’ve never heard of that.

 

You run two boards from the point where the money goes in, and each "run" gets half the pot.  So say we get QQ vs AK all in preflop, they would run out two full boards, with each getting half.

Here, the money went in on the flop, so they will run a turn and river, then another turn and river, with half the pot going to each.  PH made a boat on both runouts so he won the whole pot.

Running it twice (or more) doesn't change your equity, but it reduces variance.

Edited July 16, 2018 by TXSooner518

[pearlandhorn 3333]

17 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

You run two boards from the point where the money goes in, and each "run" gets half the pot.  So say we get QQ vs AK all in preflop, they would run out two full boards, with each getting half.

Here, the money went in on the flop, so they will run a turn and river, then another turn and river, with half the pot going to each.  PH made a boat on both runouts so he won the whole pot.

Running it twice (or more) doesn't change your equity, but it reduces variance.

Right on.  However, doesn't it change the equity you have once you do a run out (1 run out of 3 for instance)?

[TXSooner518 2440]

44 minutes ago, pearlandhorn said:

Right on.  However, doesn't it change the equity you have once you do a run out (1 run out of 3 for instance)?

Your overall equity for 3 runs is exactly equal to your overall equity for 1 run.  But yes, once the first run goes, your equity for subsequent runs will be affected by the cards that are now dead. I just meant that it's not an "advantage" to run it once or run it multiple times whether you are ahead, behind, etc., though lots of players think it is.

[bigup2dahorns 3343]

27 entries into the OneDrop with up top paying a cool 10 million dollars

[Huckleberry 33674]

I got into poker after I'd already had a kid and the other was on the way so online was how I played almost exclusively for a long time. Then I had some time to play live and the second cash game I ever played live (aside from with a small group of friends at one of our houses) I ended up with AA over KK postflop (three blanks) and the other guy asked if we could run it twice. So I had to actually say basically "I'm not gonna lie, this is the second time I've played live, are you asking if we can run the turn and river twice?" After a quick confirmation I had to use the ol' noodle to make sure that shouldn't make a difference before agreeing. The rest of the table kind of chuckled but they were helpful and a couple of them told me it was somewhat impressive that I was willing to own up to not knowing what the hell he was talking about. Funny memory.

[Lurch 5942]

I got into poker after I'd already had a kid and the other was on the way so online was how I played almost exclusively for a long time. Then I had some time to play live and the second cash game I ever played live (aside from with a small group of friends at one of our houses) I ended up with AA over KK postflop (three blanks) and the other guy asked if we could run it twice. So I had to actually say basically "I'm not gonna lie, this is the second time I've played live, are you asking if we can run the turn and river twice?" After a quick confirmation I had to use the ol' noodle to make sure that shouldn't make a difference before agreeing. The rest of the table kind of chuckled but they were helpful and a couple of them told me it was somewhat impressive that I was willing to own up to not knowing what the hell he was talking about. Funny memory.

Watching a table make a newbie feel at ease always makes me smile.

[BERT 4444]

On 7/15/2018 at 12:32 AM, pearlandhorn said:

Went to Tilt Poker while visiting my parents in Tyler. Poker club in a storage or commercial real estate complex. Kind of a shithole but don’t really care. They have the WSOP on the TV and figured I could kill a few hours. $10 daily membership or $25 monthly. I get a daily and a seat at $9/hour. One hand of note: I have 9d9h UTG +2. 2 limps ahead of me (playing 1/2 NL). I make it $15 - 2 calls, flop 10d9s3s. I bet $25, folds to button who makes it $125. I think about it and shove for about $220 total. He tanks for a while, tells me that He has put me on a flush draw but he has the nut flush draw and I smile. He calls and asks to run it twice. I boat up on both, turn it over and rake about $500. He rolled over KsQs and made a flush on both run outs. Felt kinda bad but I think I played it right. Thoughts on my play here? Other than that, was kinda card dead. Had AK once and some suited connectors and won a few < $100 pots.

Bought in for $300, cashed out $1021 after paying $24 for my seat. Nice little $720 profit for 2.5 hours. Had some fun as well. Bunch of old man coffees. My dad and FIL played as well. Dad made about $100 and FIL had quads twice and made about $525. Fun night, will do it again when I’m here for thanksgiving.

Nicely done. I've been there once. I would go more but being in Longview it's just as long of a drive to the Boats as it is to the southside of Tyler. Plus the games around here are full of donks that can't help themselves when they see chips being tossed in. 

[bigup2dahorns 3343]

I got into poker after I'd already had a kid and the other was on the way so online was how I played almost exclusively for a long time. Then I had some time to play live and the second cash game I ever played live (aside from with a small group of friends at one of our houses) I ended up with AA over KK postflop (three blanks) and the other guy asked if we could run it twice. So I had to actually say basically "I'm not gonna lie, this is the second time I've played live, are you asking if we can run the turn and river twice?" After a quick confirmation I had to use the ol' noodle to make sure that shouldn't make a difference before agreeing. The rest of the table kind of chuckled but they were helpful and a couple of them told me it was somewhat impressive that I was willing to own up to not knowing what the hell he was talking about. Funny memory.

I played home games and live NL cash games in casinos for years and never heard of “run it twice” until the first time I sat down to play PLO at Aria. Luckily I was able to figure it out before I was put to the test.

[pearlandhorn 3333]

I saw it watching old reruns of The Big Game.  Interesting concept of a show.

I'm headed to New Orleans tomorrow for work.  Anybody ever played at Harrah's?  What are the games like there?

[TXSooner518 2440]

I saw it watching old reruns of The Big Game.  Interesting concept of a show.
I'm headed to New Orleans tomorrow for work.  Anybody ever played at Harrah's?  What are the games like there?

Generally very good especially on weekends and late at night. Tuesday night at 7 won't be that crazy but good games nonetheless. GL!

[pearlandhorn 3333]

Thanks for the info!

[dirtonia 269]

I've been going to Shuffle 512 off Congress near William Cannon recently.  They've only been open for a month or so, but nice place with chill folks.  I'm more of a cash game player vs. tourney, and they don't always have a cash game going when they're opened, but the last two Friday nights I've cashed out: + $557.00; + $400.00.

[BERT 4444]

Ugh, listen to this shit. Tuesday night i head to the game late cause it filled up early. Finally get a seat around 10:45 and sit down with my usually $200. About 3 hands after sitting down i get QQ in the cutoff and make it $20, i get 6 callers. Flop comes J95 rainbow and it's checked to me. I bet $65 and the tightest fuck i know calls. Turn is an A and he leads out for $65, i insta fold and he claims AJ, no shit buddy.

See a couple of cheap flops and I'm down to $60 in front when i get QQ in the SB this time. Early position makes it $25 and three people ahead of me call. I shove for $60 and everyone just calls, YAY. Once again flop comes J high. Original better bets $100 and everyone folds. Cards run out low and he turns over KK. Nice hand

Buy in for another $200 and a few hands later get 1010 in late position and just call the $5. Guy to my left makes it $20 and a lot of us see a flop. Usually i would re raise in that spot but i'm a little gunshy at this point. Flop comes J 10 9 rainbow. Guy with the Kings earlier bets $125. Folded to me and i just call instead of shoving my last $80 with that cause i know this guy only runs it once so what's the point. Turn is a K and he bets $100 to put me all in. I tank trying to find a fold against this guy (always drinking and playing drunk) but i'm never folding a set to him almost ever. So i call and the river doesn't pair the board and he shows 78 for the small end of the straight. Good game everyone.

I was home before midnight. BLEH

[Lurch 5942]

I’m assuming this is $1/2 and there’s a straddle $5? You want feedback on these hands or just venting?

[iamthepush 72]

See a couple of cheap flops and I'm down to $60

Advice from a below average player, if you have money in your pocket you should top off when you get near 60% (or even higher) of your buy in.

[BERT 4444]

21 hours ago, Lurch said:

I’m assuming this is $1/2 and there’s a straddle $5? You want feedback on these hands or just venting?

Mainly venting but i'll take all the feedback i can get.

 

14 minutes ago, iamthepush said:

 

 

Advice from a below average player, if you have money in your pocket you should top off when you get near 60% (or even higher) of your buy in.

 

I'm handcuffed by a limit from my backer or i would. Backer is very results oriented, so no matter how well i played a hand(s) if i lose that's all that matters. It's not easy but it's a freeroll most of the time. 

[iamthepush 72]

Lurch, txsooner or anyone else, what bankroll manager/session tracker/note taker do you use? And is there one you would use but are "too far into" the one you have and don't want to change?

[Lurch 5942]

RunGood is what I have, but don’t use it

[chitwood 155]

Played at Full House last night, 1/2 game, bought in for 200, have 165 in front of me after about 20 minutes.  I'm UTG +2 with AA.  UTG (covers me) opens to 10, UTG+1 (also covers me) raises to 25.  Both of these players seem very laggy in the time I've been there.  I 4 bet to 75 and they both call.  Flop comes AKx rainbow.  They both check and I shove for 95.  They both fold.  So I made 150 out of the hand, but felt like I left another 100 or so out there.  In all honesty I wasn't trying to take it down right there, but with a 225 pot that wasn't a bad result.  I really did expect one of them to call, and I thought checking that flop after a 4 bet PF would have been way too suspicious.  Thoughts?

[po elvis 2098]

35 minutes ago, chitwood said:

Played at Full House last night, 1/2 game, bought in for 200, have 165 in front of me after about 20 minutes.  I'm UTG +2 with AA.  UTG (covers me) opens to 10, UTG+1 (also covers me) raises to 25.  Both of these players seem very laggy in the time I've been there.  I 4 bet to 75 and they both call.  Flop comes AKx rainbow.  They both check and I shove for 95.  They both fold.  So I made 150 out of the hand, but felt like I left another 100 or so out there.  In all honesty I wasn't trying to take it down right there, but with a 225 pot that wasn't a bad result.  I really did expect one of them to call, and I thought checking that flop after a 4 bet PF would have been way too suspicious.  Thoughts?

you played it fine. if there wasn't a draw out there for something like Q-J suited I would check and hope one of the guys took that as a sign you had big pair and scared of the ace and would barrel on the turn or would hit their set on the turn. but since somebody could conceivably hit a straight with the right turn card I would do what you did and be happy with the $150.

[Lurch 5942]

I check flop and turn, feeling the odds of them getting something that cracks me are outweighed by the odds of them catching something weaker and betting a later street or simply bluffing.

 

Ie, I stand to lose $95 ~10% (?) of the time, but I stand to gain +/-$95 ~25% (?) of the time. The rest I’m winning the pot anyway.

 

Hell, if it checks through to the river you could put a $25 value bet out there and even force a KQ-KT to call.

[CBT 1288]

3 hours ago, chitwood said:

Played at Full House last night, 1/2 game, bought in for 200, have 165 in front of me after about 20 minutes.  I'm UTG +2 with AA.  UTG (covers me) opens to 10, UTG+1 (also covers me) raises to 25.  Both of these players seem very laggy in the time I've been there.  I 4 bet to 75 and they both call.  Flop comes AKx rainbow.  They both check and I shove for 95.  They both fold.  So I made 150 out of the hand, but felt like I left another 100 or so out there.  In all honesty I wasn't trying to take it down right there, but with a 225 pot that wasn't a bad result.  I really did expect one of them to call, and I thought checking that flop after a 4 bet PF would have been way too suspicious.  Thoughts?

Balancing your flop betting range there can be difficult, but what other hands are you 4betting pre there with TT-KK, AK? what are you doing with TT-QQ on that flop? 

[CBT 1288]

4 hours ago, BERT said:

Mainly venting but i'll take all the feedback i can get.

 

I'm handcuffed by a limit from my backer or i would. Backer is very results oriented, so no matter how well i played a hand(s) if i lose that's all that matters. It's not easy but it's a freeroll most of the time. 

Unless you are a really good shortstacker, playing full stack is going to be higher EV. Your backer needs to let you rebuy back to at least 100bbs. 

[CBT 1288]

On 7/26/2018 at 10:58 AM, BERT said:

Ugh, listen to this shit. Tuesday night i head to the game late cause it filled up early. Finally get a seat around 10:45 and sit down with my usually $200. About 3 hands after sitting down i get QQ in the cutoff and make it $20, i get 6 callers. Flop comes J95 rainbow and it's checked to me. I bet $65 and the tightest fuck i know calls. Turn is an A and he leads out for $65, i insta fold and he claims AJ, no shit buddy.

See a couple of cheap flops and I'm down to $60 in front when i get QQ in the SB this time. Early position makes it $25 and three people ahead of me call. I shove for $60 and everyone just calls, YAY. Once again flop comes J high. Original better bets $100 and everyone folds. Cards run out low and he turns over KK. Nice hand

Buy in for another $200 and a few hands later get 1010 in late position and just call the $5. Guy to my left makes it $20 and a lot of us see a flop. Usually i would re raise in that spot but i'm a little gunshy at this point. Flop comes J 10 9 rainbow. Guy with the Kings earlier bets $125. Folded to me and i just call instead of shoving my last $80 with that cause i know this guy only runs it once so what's the point. Turn is a K and he bets $100 to put me all in. I tank trying to find a fold against this guy (always drinking and playing drunk) but i'm never folding a set to him almost ever. So i call and the river doesn't pair the board and he shows 78 for the small end of the straight. Good game everyone.

I was home before midnight. BLEH

First hand, nh, wp. Nothing you can do there.

Second hand, rebuy if possible like I mention above, otherwise, nh, wp. Nothing you can do there.

Third hand. Raise pre or reraise to isolate after someone raises behind. Shove over flop bet, nothing no reason to not. Get them sklansky bucks. 

Edited July 27, 2018 by CBT

[po elvis 2098]

31 minutes ago, CBT said:

Balancing your flop betting range there can be difficult, but what other hands are you 4betting pre there with TT-KK, AK? what are you doing with TT-QQ on that flop? 

do you really have to worry about balancing your range in a 1/2 game where you are unlikely to run into that same situation that night and if you do nobody cares because they don't think about that stuff at a 1/2 game?

[CBT 1288]

Depends. Maybe not in this exact situation. I think hero would be better off checking his entire range on that board to protect his TT-QQ. 

[chitwood 155]

Balancing doesn’t really apply in this game, as I rarely play there. That said, thanks for all the input. I’m fine with how I played it, but doing it over again would probably chrck

 

 

 Then I would be posting on here when someone hit the damn straight on the turn.

[Lurch 5942]

Balancing doesn’t really apply in this game, as I rarely play there. That said, thanks for all the input. I’m fine with how I played it, but doing it over again would probably chrck
 
 
 Then I would be posting on here when someone hit the damn straight on the turn.

Then you’d still have 10 outs, so 20% to win.

Paying $95 to win a pot of $415 (23%, so very close) or possibly $510 (19%) if other guy gets sucked in w perceived pot odds.

Ie, not a bad place to find yourself in, still.

[chitwood 155]

11 hours ago, Lurch said:

 

Then you’d still have 10 outs, so 20% to win.

Paying $95 to win a pot of $415 (23%, so very close) or possibly $510 (19%) if other guy gets sucked in w perceived pot odds.

Ie, not a bad place to find yourself in, still.

 

Good point. 

 

Played at Texas Card House yesterday afternoon. Guy at my 1/2 table blew through about 2700, 300 at a time. Nice table to play. 

[Buzzrock 15032]

Played 1/2 for four hours last night and lost $34. Just wanted y’all to know I’m still big ballin.

Thanks for the info on the “run it twice”. Will most casinos do that?

[CBT 1288]

Most don’t.

[Lurch 5942]

Played 1/2 for four hours last night and lost $34. Just wanted y’all to know I’m still big ballin.

Thanks for the info on the “run it twice”. Will most casinos do that?

Since it takes more time (costing the casino and dealer money), it’s usually frowned upon unless you’re paying time rather than rake.

[AUS-97HORN 11894]

warning,  longer post ahead.

 

so I played last night in my regular low money league. Ended up playing probably the best poker in a very long while, ended up making 5 hard calls ... but the poker gods kept punishing me. 

I start off the very first hand in the CO, I have AdKd.   100/200 levels, 15k chips to start.  There is a 1 time 10k chips rebuy. Table has 8 players, and every player limps to me. I make it 1200 to play, everyone gets out except the 3rd limper  (calling him the kid from now on) who calls the 1200 .   

Flop is 10-8-8 all black    Kid is brand new to the league, hes the nephew of one of the regulars.  He might play poker online, but he is obviously not used to live poker at all. He checks, I bet out 1100 on a continuation bet, he calls.  Turn is a red 10.  kid checks, I bet 1500, he check raises to 3000.  This seems odd, kid could have a boat here, but its an odd time to make a raise if hes got one.  So I call.  River is a Q,   Kid bets out  1100.   Fuck.... its an obvious call me bet.  But there is a decent chance kid has an ace in his hand and we chop. and there is already 12k in the damn pot, so I have to call.... and I was sort of right, kid had an ace in his hand.... along with another ace.... holy fuck batman.  gets AA first fucking hand and is the THIRD limper?   1st tough call- WRONG

Ive just lost 45% of my damn chips on the first hand. against a guy who is either a fucking savant, or an idiot

I proceed to lose the rest of my first stack over the next 30 mins.  finalized by a shove with 7-7 and lose to QQ.   I rebuy,  get my 10k in chips and the very first hand is against the kid again. This time I have JJ, blinds were 200/400.  I make it 1k, kid calls  flop comes out 6-7-8  all spades (I dont have one),  kid bets 4k.... and I fold.   fucknut shows 5x-3s.  sigh.  looked it up, i was 45% to win vs kid winning 50% of the time and a tie happening 5% of the time.  So I guess it was the right fold. 

I have 8400 chips when I limp with QJu. 3 total limpers.  Flop comes A-K-T,  I check through , Button makes it 1800 to play, BB calls, I call. Turn is another A.   checked to me.  Im positive one of these guys has an A, and if they just boated up, oh well, thats poker.  I shove for my last 6k, BOTH call. river is a blank and it turns out they both had A-rag.   so I triple up and am now in business again.   A few hands later, when I was the SB, the BB shoved for 10k on a K-Q-3 board.   I had Q-6o.  The shove just didnt make sense, and I called.  he had 6-3o, and we hold and eliminate him.  2nd tough call- RIGHT

I win a few more small hands getting the stack up to 40k when Im up against the kid again, I think the blinds were 500/1k at this point. i am SB,  Kid is CO, he makes it 4k to play (typically he was overbetting the pre-flop raises), hes also got almost 150k in chips at this point, the whole tourney only had 590k chips total, kid has been hitting flush after flush taking people down.  i look down at AK, and decide to raise, I make it 9k.  folds to the kid who shoves.  I call.... and hes got AQ.   K on flop  killed any drama, so I double up..   3rd tough call- RIGHT

I fight the kid a few more times, his luck starts to run out,  he loses to others as well. I get up to 105k, kid is down to about 52k  when we clash again. blinds are 1k/2k Kid is BB,  I am LP , I have Kx9s.  I make it 5k to play, kid calls.  flop comes 2-5-3  2 spades. Kid checks, I bet  8k.... kid calls.   Turn is  non-spade K.   Kid looks at the king, smiles and  shoves for 39k more.  Hes been playing heavily on making flushes, and I think ive got a flush blocker card with 9s, and a pair of kings.... so after a bit of a think I call.   Kid Turns over AJu.  4th tough call- RIGHT!......

except the fucking poker gods toss the 7 outer 4 on the river to take the great call from me.... fuck.     I then spend the next hour recovering from that hit, get myself up to 130k with 5 players left.  Kid finally bluffs against me 1 too many times and I have the nut straight when he does. So he  goes out on the bubble. I take down #4 quickly.  and Ive got 270k...  a little less than half the chips left. 

We are at the 5k/10k blind level, I am the BB  with 8-8.  The button is an absolute lunatic, he will call almost any draw, while completely slow playing any pair he has hit or has in his hand.  Hes very tough to read, you cant tell when hes drawing, or has something... although the general rule is, he is drawing, and thats how he usually loses because he pays off too large of a bet to draw and doesnt win.   

So he makes it 20k to play, I think hes full of shit and I make it 45k to play.  He doesnt hesitate, he shoves for his whole stack of  108.   I have him count it, and he makes a face that seems like he is really  unhappy with the request, which I guessed meant, he didnt want a call.   So I call, and he turns over  6-2 off.   5th tough call- RIGHT..... except the flop comes 3-5-9,   and the turn comes 6.... so he goes from being in really bad shape, to 4 outs, to 9 outs... and the deuce hits on the river to take it away from me....

Lunatic knocks out 3rd place, we play heads up for 20 mins, I get back to even with him, and then he catches 3 straights in a row vs my top pair, which decimates me.... I shove for my last 70k with KJ off and he shows AQ..... neither of us hits, and he wins.   

its just so frustrating knowing you made the right real time call and get poker fucked for it.

[goatsaag 279]

On 7/26/2018 at 10:58 AM, BERT said:

Folded to me and i just call instead of shoving my last $80 with that cause i know this guy only runs it once so what's the point.

Why does his unwillingness to run it twice have any impact on calling or shoving here?

[VolenteHawk 495]

On 7/27/2018 at 10:54 AM, chitwood said:

Played at Full House last night, 1/2 game, bought in for 200, have 165 in front of me after about 20 minutes.  I'm UTG +2 with AA.  UTG (covers me) opens to 10, UTG+1 (also covers me) raises to 25.  Both of these players seem very laggy in the time I've been there.  I 4 bet to 75 and they both call.  Flop comes AKx rainbow.  They both check and I shove for 95.  They both fold.  So I made 150 out of the hand, but felt like I left another 100 or so out there.  In all honesty I wasn't trying to take it down right there, but with a 225 pot that wasn't a bad result.  I really did expect one of them to call, and I thought checking that flop after a 4 bet PF would have been way too suspicious.  Thoughts?

Played fine, but you can check the flop without being TOO outright suspicious. You have a few hands in your range for which you’ve just hit a monster but you have a few for which that’s an ugly board.

 

[Bookman 4731]

Lol I played in a tourny yesterday and this guy had JJ on a J-2-2-2-2 board.

[chitwood 155]

3 hours ago, VolenteHawk said:

Played fine, but you can check the flop without being TOO outright suspicious. You have a few hands in your range for which you’ve just hit a monster but you have a few for which that’s an ugly board.

 

Thanks.  Thinking about it, I certainly could have 4 bet with QQ, and possibly JJ if I was a little nutty, and that flop would have been very bad for that.

[Lurch 5942]

Thanks.  Thinking about it, I certainly could have 4 bet with QQ, and possibly JJ if I was a little nutty, and that flop would have been very bad for that.

If UTG and UTG+1 we’re indeed laggy, you’d better be 4betting JJ. Hell, I’d 4bet 88+ in that spot.

[chitwood 155]

good point.

[TXSooner518 2440]

On 7/27/2018 at 10:54 AM, chitwood said:

Played at Full House last night, 1/2 game, bought in for 200, have 165 in front of me after about 20 minutes.  I'm UTG +2 with AA.  UTG (covers me) opens to 10, UTG+1 (also covers me) raises to 25.  Both of these players seem very laggy in the time I've been there.  I 4 bet to 75 and they both call.  Flop comes AKx rainbow.  They both check and I shove for 95.  They both fold.  So I made 150 out of the hand, but felt like I left another 100 or so out there.  In all honesty I wasn't trying to take it down right there, but with a 225 pot that wasn't a bad result.  I really did expect one of them to call, and I thought checking that flop after a 4 bet PF would have been way too suspicious.  Thoughts?

We basically go faceup when we 4bet for half of our stack. I like calling the 25 better, as we may then get the original LAG to 4bet light.  He's not 5betting light with 0 fold equity once we go 75.  I like 55 better than 75 if we are 4betting (due to our depth, if we are 300 deep, 75 is of course fine).  

As played, sometimes they just don't have something to stack off with.  Checking will set off alarm bells as well.  

On 7/27/2018 at 12:16 PM, Lurch said:

I check flop and turn, feeling the odds of them getting something that cracks me are outweighed by the odds of them catching something weaker and betting a later street or simply bluffing.

Ie, I stand to lose $95 ~10% (?) of the time, but I stand to gain +/-$95 ~25% (?) of the time. The rest I’m winning the pot anyway.

Hell, if it checks through to the river you could put a $25 value bet out there and even force a KQ-KT to call.

Problem with this is that the pot already largely outweighs what we can win. Let's look at the outcomes as a function of our stack after the hand. I'm ignoring the chances we get both villains in and win since it is extremely unlikely that right now neither villain would stack off, but if we check, they BOTH stack off.  I think that balances against the idea that sometimes a villain will stack off here without us checking, which IMO will happen more than us checking and inducing two stackoffs:

1) We win the hand with no more money going in. Our stack is $310 (the $225 in the pot plus our remaining $85 - chit originally said he had $160, but then indicated he jammed $95 which means he had $170, not sure which is right but doesn't matter much.)

2) One more villain gets his money in and we win.  Our stack is $395 (the $225 in the pot plus our remaining $85 gets doubled)

3) We get our money in and lose.  Our stack is $0.

So by checking, we need our stack after the hand to average more than $310.  If by checking we get a villain to stack off 60% of the time, and we lose the pot 10% of the time, our average stack is (.6 x 395 + .3 x 310 +.1 x 0) or 237 + 93 = 310.  Note here that this is exactly breakeven, and I think it is HUGELY optimistic that we induce a stackoff 60% of the time. Since it is exactly breakeven, I think it is going to be better to go with option 1, since there is the chance that we don't have more money to reload with, and there is the chance we play worse after getting our AA stacked off.

I think the only way checking makes sense is if one of the villains is just an idiotic monkey who is just gonna spam the bet button if we check 100% of the time.  And if we are against that villain, we DEFINITELY should have just flatted the 25 in the first lace, and know we are never folding.

On 7/28/2018 at 9:18 PM, Lurch said:

 

Then you’d still have 10 outs, so 20% to win.

Paying $95 to win a pot of $415 (23%, so very close) or possibly $510 (19%) if other guy gets sucked in w perceived pot odds.

Ie, not a bad place to find yourself in, still.

 

You said you are checking turn also, we don't have a redraw if QJ or JT get there on the river.

[TXSooner518 2440]

On 7/27/2018 at 2:22 PM, CBT said:

First hand, nh, wp. Nothing you can do there.

Second hand, rebuy if possible like I mention above, otherwise, nh, wp. Nothing you can do there.

Third hand. Raise pre or reraise to isolate after someone raises behind. Shove over flop bet, nothing no reason to not. Get them sklansky bucks. 

These are all 100%.  Third hand you are allowing previous hands to make you play worse. God knows I get annoyed with poker, but you have to make sure your decisionmaking process isn't being clouded, and if it is, get up and take a walk.

 

12 hours ago, goatsaag said:

Why does his unwillingness to run it twice have any impact on calling or shoving here?

And this. Your equity is exactly the same whether he runs it once or ten times. You need to play to maximize that equity. And you ran the risk of making a very bad fold on the turn, as we have odds to call if he shows us a queen at this point.

GL!

[Lurch 5942]

You said you are checking turn also, we don't have a redraw if QJ or JT get there on the river.

This was in response to someone hitting and shoving turn

[TXSooner518 2440]

19 hours ago, AUS-97HORN said:

I start off the very first hand in the CO, I have AdKd.   100/200 levels, 15k chips to start.  There is a 1 time 10k chips rebuy. Table has 8 players, and every player limps to me. I make it 1200 to play, everyone gets out except the 3rd limper  (calling him the kid from now on) who calls the 1200 .   

Flop is 10-8-8 all black    Kid is brand new to the league, hes the nephew of one of the regulars.  He might play poker online, but he is obviously not used to live poker at all. He checks, I bet out 1100 on a continuation bet, he calls.  Turn is a red 10.  kid checks, I bet 1500, he check raises to 3000.  This seems odd, kid could have a boat here, but its an odd time to make a raise if hes got one.  So I call.  River is a Q,   Kid bets out  1100.   Fuck.... its an obvious call me bet.  But there is a decent chance kid has an ace in his hand and we chop. and there is already 12k in the damn pot, so I have to call.... and I was sort of right, kid had an ace in his hand.... along with another ace.... holy fuck batman.  gets AA first fucking hand and is the THIRD limper?   1st tough call- WRONG

Big hand, big pot, small hand, small pot. Check either the flop or the turn if not both. You put in 4 bets postflop with AKdd on T-8-8-T-Q no diamonds.  This is a total spew my friend.

This time I have JJ, blinds were 200/400.  I make it 1k, kid calls  flop comes out 6-7-8  all spades (I dont have one),  kid bets 4k.... and I fold.   fucknut shows 5x-3s.  sigh.  looked it up, i was 45% to win vs kid winning 50% of the time and a tie happening 5% of the time.  So I guess it was the right fold. 

Evaluate hands against a range of hands, not a specific hand. Reasonable to fold here, as we are sometimes totally hosed, sometimes flipping.

I win a few more small hands getting the stack up to 40k when Im up against the kid again, I think the blinds were 500/1k at this point. i am SB,  Kid is CO, he makes it 4k to play (typically he was overbetting the pre-flop raises), hes also got almost 150k in chips at this point, the whole tourney only had 590k chips total, kid has been hitting flush after flush taking people down.  i look down at AK, and decide to raise, I make it 9k.  folds to the kid who shoves.  I call.... and hes got AQ.   K on flop  killed any drama, so I double up..   3rd tough call- RIGHT

Make it bigger pre.  This sizing is fine if we are button, but we are OOP, so we should be sizing our raises bigger.

its just so frustrating knowing you made the right real time call and get poker fucked for it.

[BERT 4444]

17 hours ago, goatsaag said:

Why does his unwillingness to run it twice have any impact on calling or shoving here?

In this case with that guy, it really didn't matter. Same outcome was gonna happen cause i was never folding to the drunk guy. 

4 hours ago, TXSooner518 said:

These are all 100%.  Third hand you are allowing previous hands to make you play worse. God knows I get annoyed with poker, but you have to make sure your decisionmaking process isn't being clouded, and if it is, get up and take a walk.

 

And this. Your equity is exactly the same whether he runs it once or ten times. You need to play to maximize that equity. And you ran the risk of making a very bad fold on the turn, as we have odds to call if he shows us a queen at this point.

GL!

I know, I know. I knew better than to not raise in that spot. One thing that always comes in mind when i flop a set is something you said before. You said something along the lines of "we're trying to get our stack in anytime we flop a set". Now obviously the board and player makes my play differ, but that saying always pops up in my head lol

 

 

I played good all damn day yesterday and could never get ahead more than $100. THEN i get AA with four of us still playing. I'm in the SB and just call the $25 button straddle, other two fold and button just checks as he hasn't even looked at his cards yet. He's stuck big time and just messing around at this point. I figure we're just gonna check it down. Well we check it down til the river when he bets out $68 and i know he still hasn't looked at his cards. Well of course i call and the bastard hit runner runner 3 Q for two pair. All i could do was laugh and call him a name (he's a buddy of mine). That led to a downward spiral 

[NateHitch 1282]

Learned poker about 2 years ago just messing around with friends, nothing serious.  I liked it a lot more than they did and have played exclusively online ever since.  Don't like cash games, I don't do well in them but I regularly place in SNG's and bigger tourneys.  Got first place in two tourneys in the last 2 months, small buy ins but won $1300 between the two of them so I feel I'm doing pretty well.  I want to play some live tourneys but it's a bit intimidating, just looking for advice for someone that is decent at poker but has never once played in a casino or any sort of "formal" poker room.  I'm used to having the website keep track of chip stacks and an exact chip count of everyone at the table and the only table etiquette I know is from watching WSOP on ESPN.