2018 Poker run good or die

[LonghornGoodfella 114]

Any regular surly cash or tourney games in the Austin area? Not a fan of paying the card house type hourly fee nonsense. 

[po elvis 2070]

13 hours ago, LonghornGoodfella said:

Any regular surly cash or tourney games in the Austin area? Not a fan of paying the card house type hourly fee nonsense. 

why? these card houses are great. you probably play in casinos despite the rake.

[disgustipated 39]

Point taken,  I was a little sloppy there.  Meant to say he 3x raised my flop bet.   

[TXSooner518 2438]

 

1 hour ago, po elvis said:

why? these card houses are great. you probably play in casinos despite the rake.

For cash games, card houses are better than casinos almost surely.  For higher buyin tourneys, card house is probably better. For low buyin tourneys, card houses are basically impossible to beat the rake to actually win longterm (same with casinos to be fair).

It is funny the amount of people who are like "no way I'm paying $9/hr!" and instead play an underground game that rakes $10/pot.

1 hour ago, disgustipated said:

Point taken,  I was a little sloppy there.  Meant to say he 3x raised my flop bet.   

Yeah, sometimes people use it to mean that, and sometimes on the flop, they would think a raise of a bet is a 3bet, since preflop, people don't always think of blinds as a bet.  

Tough spot for sure.  When you pot it, and he raises 3x, that's pretty strong.  Lots of low limit players will overplay hands like A9 or TT on this board, and also sometimes will make a play because they "put you on AK."  Critical low limit live skill is deciding which players overplay hands, and which players might raise because of what they think you have.  Obviously lots of 1/2 players don't think about what you have other than the obvious "uh oh the 3rd heart hit oh man he must have the flush why do they always hit the flush on me" type of stuff.

[LonghornGoodfella 114]

2 hours ago, po elvis said:

why? these card houses are great. you probably play in casinos despite the rake.

I hear you and get it. I'm not a poor by any means, but am just an average poker player who enjoys it more for fun than anything else socially. Just wondering if any of the poker guys on here in the Austin area had any regular weekly games instead. But i can see how a good cash player would love the poker rooms vs. casinos. 

[iamthepush 72]

Rich and not good at poker? Lmk when you find a game

[LonghornGoodfella 114]

2 minutes ago, iamthepush said:

Rich and not good at poker? Lmk when you find a game

Ha not rich but just not a poor. I'll happily pass some of my degenerate winnings your way at the table though. 

[po elvis 2070]

2 hours ago, LonghornGoodfella said:

I hear you and get it. I'm not a poor by any means, but am just an average poker player who enjoys it more for fun than anything else socially. Just wondering if any of the poker guys on here in the Austin area had any regular weekly games instead. But i can see how a good cash player would love the poker rooms vs. casinos. 

believe me i was leery of the card rooms and stayed away for the longest. friend of mine talked me into going and haven't looked back since.

[LonghornGoodfella 114]

10 minutes ago, po elvis said:

believe me i was leery of the card rooms and stayed away for the longest. friend of mine talked me into going and haven't looked back since.

I'll have to try one out. I've only heard of the Texas Card House one that has a south and north location but what is the best one to go to? A friend of mine told me there was a better one than TCH over off the Parmer/Mopac area close to where Cougar River used to be, but not sure of the name. He said it was less than the $9 TCH charges and had just as much players/action. 

[chitwood 155]

54 minutes ago, LonghornGoodfella said:

I'll have to try one out. I've only heard of the Texas Card House one that has a south and north location but what is the best one to go to? A friend of mine told me there was a better one than TCH over off the Parmer/Mopac area close to where Cougar River used to be, but not sure of the name. He said it was less than the $9 TCH charges and had just as much players/action. 

South one isn't open anymore (not sure if it will reopen).  Full House is near Parmer/Mopac.  Cheaper time charge.  I've only played it twice, not as many tables as TCH, but action appears similar.

[chitwood 155]

1 hour ago, po elvis said:

believe me i was leery of the card rooms and stayed away for the longest. friend of mine talked me into going and haven't looked back since.

Agreed the card rooms are great, but the time charge for smaller tourneys is really hard to beat.  $150 tourney, say you play for 4 hours, it turns into at 150+40.  Plus the membership fee.

[TXSooner518 2438]

I've been playing a bit (and dealing a bit) at The Lodge on I-35 in Round Rock.  I have 7 straight winning cash sessions there, and finished 3rd-1st-15th (out of 118, paid 12, lost big pot QQ to 98hh all in pre late) -2nd in my last 4 tourneys there.

[po elvis 2070]

19 minutes ago, chitwood said:

Agreed the card rooms are great, but the time charge for smaller tourneys is really hard to beat.  $150 tourney, say you play for 4 hours, it turns into at 150+40.  Plus the membership fee.

the ones I play at don't charge a time fee, but just a relatively reasonable seat fee for the tournament. i did play one last night that is the first of 9 flights for a $40k guarantee where the final day is sunday. $40 entry, $20 time fee, rebuys and a $20 add-on. the top 15% for each flight make the money and will play Sunday. The pool is going to end up being close to $100k, not $40k, with first being around $20k. I didn't rebuy, but did the add on so I am in for $83 with the door fee. Since I made the final day, I am guaranteed at least $200 with a shot at $20k. not too bad. I will have to pay another $20 time fee for Sunday though. 

[disgustipated 39]

Met some guys that drove up from Austin to Winstar in my last session (a doozy of a session i'll follow up on in a separate post).  Apparently they jumped into the car after he finished dealing his shift arriving at four in the mourning.  They were bragging about the Austin poker scene.  He said he and his other buddy "the Goat" (who was sleeping in the car) were gonna "crush" the River (Winstar's Big Annual Poker tourney on labor day weekend). They had already earned 5 "Lanis" for the mega satellite in previous visits. 

[AUS-97HORN 11757]

pretty sure its a Lamie  

(no idea how its spelled).  as in Laminated Chip which gets you into the River Tourney as a single paid for buy in

[TXSooner518 2438]

"lammer"

[disgustipated 39]

So my seventh session, as I said was a bit of a doozy. 

One of the last hands I was in. 

It’s 4:30 A.M and the table is short.  You’re twelve hours into your sit and stuck several hundred dollars.  You were in a previous hand with Villain who flopped broadway on you.  Despite sniffing it out, you still paid off his $25 value bet on the river after runner runner made 4 to the flush that missed you.  Now you have AdQc in the cutoff with $300 in your stack.  You raise to $13 and villain and two other callers.  Villain is $800 deep.    Flop Ac, 9s, 3s.  Checks around to you.  You bet $30, villain min raises to $60.  Fold around to you and you call.  Turn is 3d.  Villain jams all in.  Action on you.

[Lurch 5922]

pretty sure its a Lamie  
(no idea how its spelled).  as in Laminated Chip which gets you into the River Tourney as a single paid for buy in

They’re pretty cool. Hated giving them up like the WSOP $1k chips

[TXSooner518 2438]

Purty! This is last year's. Played a SNG satty Friday night and managed to lose AcKs to KdQh on K74ccc. Yay!

[iamthepush 72]

I've been playing Omaha at prime social for a few months, got poker bank tracker app.

 

Never really played Omaha live before now ( i mean i have but it would be at a home game at end of the night and we'd play about an orbit) but i haven't touched hold em since playing. Anyone experience this?

 

Here are my last 7 sessions if anyone cares

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lurch 5922]

Doug Polk was doing a $100 to $10k challenge for the last two months and went on a sick run from $3k to $10k last night. Upon completion, he announced he’s quitting poker. :-/

[CBT 1282]

Wow. I watched some of the 0-$3k. Is he really quitting??

[Lurch 5922]

I think so. He’s been doing a lot of other projects the last year or two and seems to be burned out on poker.

[AUS-97HORN 11757]

"quitting"....   like for the next 10 months, sure, no problem.... but you know damn well hes gonna at least play in the cheaper WSOP tourneys because the ROI opportunity is so high for him.

[TXSooner518 2438]

I dunno about the 1500 mass field ones, but I can't imagine he's skipping the WSOP main.

[disgustipated 39]

The hand above is an instafold right?  Or is it reasonable to think villian is trying to create fold equity on a semi bluff flush draw?

Edited August 23, 2018 by disgustipated

[po elvis 2070]

20 hours ago, disgustipated said:

So my seventh session, as I said was a bit of a doozy. 

 

One of the last hands I was in. 

It’s 4:30 A.M and the table is short.  You’re twelve hours into your sit and stuck several hundred dollars.  You were in a previous hand with Villain who flopped broadway on you.  Despite sniffing it out, you still paid off his $25 value bet on the river after runner runner made 4 to the flush that missed you.  Now you have AdQc in the cutoff with $300 in your stack.  You raise to $13 and villain and two other callers.  Villain is $800 deep.    Flop Ac, 9s, 3s.  Checks around to you.  You bet $30, villain min raises to $60.  Fold around to you and you call.  Turn is 3d.  Villain jams all in.  Action on you.

 

what is he representing here? he is not jamming the turn with pocket aces, pocket 9's or pocket 3's. nor A-3. seems like he should have A-9. could have A-K or a flush draw. does he mi-raise the flop with a flush draw though and shove that turn? i guess he could have played 4-5s that way.

Edited August 23, 2018 by po elvis

[TXSooner518 2438]

2 hours ago, disgustipated said:

The hand above is an instafold right?  Or is it reasonable to think villian is trying to create fold equity on a semi bluff flush draw?

We need more information about villain, what is villain's position along with the other two callers, and any info on previous hands involving villain.

As po points out, his value range is prettttay narrow, and I think it is largely to entirely A9. I'm presuming he doesn't have AK because he didn't 3bet preflop.  I'm presuming he isn't open ripping 2x pot with a boat, since he would love you to draw to the flush. Is he minraising with just a naked 3 on the flop? If he isn't, and my above presumptions are correct, he can only have A9 that beats you, and there are only 6 combos of that available, and only one combo of suited A9 in case he is folding A9o to a 6.5x open (can only have Ah9h).

It definitely isn't an instafold unless he's been sitting there for 2 hours folding and is wearing a WWII veteran hat, which would defeat both of my above presumptions. 

I would likely call here, since it doesn't take many flush draw combos for him to rip to make this a call. The fact that the As isn't on the board means he can be ripping AsXs, rather than just random bare flush draws, which is more likely.  

[po elvis 2070]

oh yes i didn't even think about Ax of spades. that is pretty likely hand.

[disgustipated 39]

in this hand Villain was EP.  middle aged asian looking guy.  Other two callers folded to the min re-raise, so its heads up. You saw him play a few hands.

1. In BB, he 3x re-raised 5BB raise preflop, got two callers and jammed flop with 2 hearts.

2. Felted a guy on a cooler case 7 with Ah7h in position vs 10c7c.  4 limpers preflop. board came Qx,8c,7c.  EP led 2/3, villain smoothed. Turn 7d. EP led 2/3, villain jammed. 

3. Was Heads up with villain who flopped broadway.  Called $25 value bet on the river with top pair after runner runner made 4 to the flush that missed you.

Edited August 23, 2018 by disgustipated

[TXSooner518 2438]

23 minutes ago, disgustipated said:

in this hand Villain was EP.  middle aged asian looking guy.  Other two callers folded to the min re-raise, so its heads up. You saw him play a few hands.

1. In BB, he 3x re-raised 5BB raise preflop, got two callers and jammed flop with 2 hearts.

2. Felted a guy on a cooler case 7 with Ah7h in position vs 10c7c.  4 limpers preflop. board came Qx,8c,7c.  EP led 2/3, villain smoothed. Turn 7d. EP led 2/3, villain jammed. 

3. Was Heads up with villain who flopped broadway.  Called $25 value bet on the river with top pair after runner runner made 4 to the flush that missed you.

Hand 3 doesn't tell us much about him.  What was his hand?  Did he raise or limp pre?  What was the flop and turn action?  How much was he betting the $25 into on the river?  He also had no flush?

It sounds like he does overbet jam a good amount, as it sounds like the jam in hand 2 was for way more than the pot if it was just limped pre, and the pot in hand 1 was 45 BB going to the flop, so unless he started hand with $120 or less, he's overbet jamming again.

Villain limped before you made it $13?  In your OP, it sounded like you opened and he flatted your open.  And the positions of the other players matters, because it makes a difference if he made it $60 with both players active behind him, or if both players had already folded when he made it $60, etc.  Villain sounds active and spewy enough that I'm just not gonna fold this to him.  

Edited August 23, 2018 by TXSooner518

[disgustipated 39]

Yes, villain limp called with the two limpers calling behind him on a short table.  Everything is as I said, but let me juxtapose things by indicating the middle aged asian villain was actually me.  My opponent was a millennial kid.  He chastised me about my body language in the hand where I flopped broadway on him.  Yet still called my value bet on the river with what I guess was at least top pair but not sure because he mucked.

I apologize for the deception, but trying to analyze the hand from his point of view to see if the misdirection was "objectively" believable warranting a call or if his call was more a product of the dynamics of being stuck and deep into a long sit.  I jammed the turn because I saw him lining up his chips for a shove, but felt like he was just feigning a shove to catch a check from me.  In fact, on the flop after check min-raising him,  he said you know I have an ace here so its going to be a matter of who has the best kicker.  I had A3o.  He tanked for 5 minutes before calling.

This was actually the hand that completed my comeback from what was at its lowest point stuck $850 to cheese $100, with $700 (including ~$300 winning from this hand) of it earned in about about 2.5hrs.  I pretty much broke my all my preset guidelines of my poker return.  16 hr sit, and I was stuck early into it and just kept bleeding.  I opened my range, and pretty much abandoned pot control for betting lines more conducive to large higher variance multiway pots and my stack fluctuated accordingly. 

So by 2:30 once our table was consolidated into another short table, i had $400 in front of me.  I am sure it comes as no surprise, but that late into a sit, those still playing are either stuck or preying on the stuck.  I wont say I played a good LAG,  but more caught a good run at the right time.  Just happy I ended on the right side, and kept my winning steak, even if it would have been more lucrative for me to do a double at micky d's drive through.

[NateHitch 1282]

Everything about this is just bizarre.  It comes off as some sort of weird, deceptive humble brag because you won with A3o.

Edited August 23, 2018 by NateHitch

[TXSooner518 2438]

So you limpcalled A3o, then check minraised on A93 then jammed for twice pot when you hit gin? Don't like any of it.

What were you doing on the other hands where you overbet jammed after 3-betting and overbet jammed the A7 hand? Or "valuebetting" broadway on 4 flush?

[disgustipated 39]

1 hour ago, NateHitch said:

Everything about this is just bizarre.  It comes off as some sort of weird, deceptive humble brag because you won with A3o.

Sorry if it does seem that way. not my intent at all. I am really interested on how this line of play looked from his perspective.  Even if you get lucky, you still have to find the right line of play to maximize value.  Sure i got the call, but I thought I was completely overplayed it and thought it was an easy fold for him.  We can have the discussion as to why I am calling 3xBB raise in EP with A3o.  I think that's a playable LAG hand, but maybe not in EP. Would like to hear feedback.  

[iamthepush 72]

I'd like to apologize for my last post, was a little messed up, and the words didn't come out goodly.

What I was asking is, if when you played Omaha for "the first time" did you not have a desire to go back to hold em? That's how it feels right now for me, I love hold em, but damn PLO and O8 is pretty fun.

Td:Dr I need a poker divorce lawyer

PS. This is still terrible, ask to see my tracker app results in a month, I bet I'll say I deleted the app

[disgustipated 39]

5 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

So you limpcalled A3o, then check minraised on A93 then jammed for twice pot when you hit gin? Don't like any of it.

What were you doing on the other hands where you overbet jammed after 3-betting and overbet jammed the A7 hand? Or "valuebetting" broadway on 4 flush?
 

Thanks sooner,  I need to check myself on these things.  I had KK on the first hand.  Obviously if I run into a set obviously im in trouble.  But with two caller behind,  first to act and flush draw on the board, I just wanted to take it down.  Stacks behind me were comparable to mine. 

And even the A7, I raised turn to take it down, but there was a flush draw there too.  So he had about 70 in and 130 back when I jammed.  Obviously I didn't put him and the other 7 and got lucky twice that he did and missed his flush and boat draws.  

The 4 flush was more a blocking bet than value bet.  If he comes over the top there is nothing I can call.  How I even got a call I don't know.   Which is why I am trying to figure out his  thought process.

I'd like to hear thoughts on jamming the turn.  I think Im doing it too much and missing value, but that said during the WSOP when Antonio Esfandiari was commentating he spoke about taking pots down versus higher EV betting lines (but not necessarily slow playing).   

[Lurch 5922]

I'd like to apologize for my last post, was a little messed up, and the words didn't come out goodly.

What I was asking is, if when you played Omaha for "the first time" did you not have a desire to go back to hold em? That's how it feels right now for me, I love hold em, but damn PLO and O8 is pretty fun.

Td:Dr I need a poker divorce lawyer

PS. This is still terrible, ask to see my tracker app results in a month, I bet I'll say I deleted the app

I’ve not played it live. My impression is that it’s quite addicting because it is fun to always be in a hand (or think you are), but I’d likely be playing against those with a MUCH firmer grasp on the intricacies of proper strategy so it would certainly be a loosing proposition long term. Because of the huge swings, one could be given the impression that they’re beating the game when they’re really just on a good run of cards. Not saying that’s where you’re at, but I’ve seen a lot of the solid regs come back to NLHE with horror stories of being up huge for a few weeks and then crashing spectacularly.

[Lurch 5922]

Thanks sooner,  I need to check myself on these things.  I had KK on the first hand.  Obviously if I run into a set obviously im in trouble.  But with two caller behind,  first to act and flush draw on the board, I just wanted to take it down.  Stacks behind me were comparable to mine. 
And even the A7, I raised turn to take it down, but there was a flush draw there too.  So he had about 70 in and 130 back when I jammed.  Obviously I didn't put him and the other 7 and got lucky twice that he did and missed his flush and boat draws.  
The 4 flush was more a blocking bet than value bet.  If he comes over the top there is nothing I can call.  How I even got a call I don't know.   Which is why I am trying to figure out his  thought process.
I'd like to hear thoughts on jamming the turn.  I think Im doing it too much and missing value, but that said during the WSOP when Antonio Esfandiari was commentating he spoke about taking pots down versus higher EV betting lines (but not necessarily slow playing).   

Worth noting that Antonio was likely referring to tourney vs cash.

Also, he’s Antonio and you (probably?) are not

[disgustipated 39]

yea.  no illusions there.  shit im playing 1/3 NL just trying to build a roll and get back into the swing.  That said I am not 100% certain, but reason it stuck with me is I seem to recall him mentioning cash games in this context, versus tournament.  He was saying it used to be that you didn't see as many hands going to showdown and pot bets were more prevalent.  Perhaps I am over compensating for randomness, but in general I am happy to take a pot down and move onto the next hand. 

[TXSooner518 2438]

12 hours ago, disgustipated said:

Thanks sooner,  I need to check myself on these things.  I had KK on the first hand.  Obviously if I run into a set obviously im in trouble.  But with two caller behind,  first to act and flush draw on the board, I just wanted to take it down.  Stacks behind me were comparable to mine. 

And even the A7, I raised turn to take it down, but there was a flush draw there too.  So he had about 70 in and 130 back when I jammed.  Obviously I didn't put him and the other 7 and got lucky twice that he did and missed his flush and boat draws.  

The 4 flush was more a blocking bet than value bet.  If he comes over the top there is nothing I can call.  How I even got a call I don't know.   Which is why I am trying to figure out his  thought process.

I'd like to hear thoughts on jamming the turn.  I think Im doing it too much and missing value, but that said during the WSOP when Antonio Esfandiari was commentating he spoke about taking pots down versus higher EV betting lines (but not necessarily slow playing).   

I was thinking you were playing 1/2 not 1/3 which makes the math a touch different.  To really analyze hands, you need to know stack sizes, positions, and history.  

Let's start with the A3o hand. You said you were playing "LAG", but limp-calling is playing loose-passive, not loose-aggressive. You also said it was "$13" and also a "3x" raise.  Whether the limpers were before or after you also does matter. Limping A3o is pretty gross, and I'm not going to do it unless I'm on the button against multiple limpers, or completing the SB. Raising or folding are both superior.  Once it gets raised to $13, just fold. We are playing a multi-way pot, out of position, with a weak hand that doesn't generally flop well.

On the flop, were you the first player to act after the bet of $30 or had the other two players already folded? What were you trying to accomplish with this bet?  I would either just call or raise larger.

On the turn, when the player is fiddling with his chips acting like he wants to shove, you are correct in that that is usually a tell that the player doesn't love his hand and wants you to check. So if we think he wants us to check, why are we jamming 2x pot with a boat on a board that has a flush draw?  We would LOVE him to be in there with KQss for example, but we are making him fold. If we bet a reasonable amount, and he makes the flush on the river, we get it all. But instead, now we only get called if he has us beat (he can have AA or 99 based on action while from his perspective we cannot), or he happens to have AK or AQ and decides to call it off, which luckily happened here.

On the KK hand, how deep were all of you and what exactly was the flop?  You said you tripled a 5x bet, and got two calls, so at 1/3 that is $75 going into the pot 3 ways, so that may make a flop shove the good and correct play.  But generally we need to be looking at what play makes us the most money, not focusing on "taking it down".  If we are making bets that fold out everything we beat, and get called by everything that beats us, those are bad bets to make.

On the A7 hand, you said it was a 5 way limped pot ($15), the person bet 2/3 pot on flop and you called ($35), then bet 2/3 on turn and you jammed.  So there was about $55 in the pot when you jammed with top trips.  If we had more than, say, $70, to start the turn, this is torching money here (again luckily we have completely coolered the opponent, but they will be folding most hands we beat).  Also if we only had 70 to start the turn, we weren't deep enough to call either pre or flop, so something somewhere is amiss.

All this is intended for constructive criticism, as it seemed you wanted feedback.  I love discussing, thinking about, and talking through poker hands, both for fun, and because it helps me also. If you are just wanting to post venting stories, let me know, and I'll chime out.

[TXSooner518 2438]

10 hours ago, disgustipated said:

yea.  no illusions there.  shit im playing 1/3 NL just trying to build a roll and get back into the swing.  That said I am not 100% certain, but reason it stuck with me is I seem to recall him mentioning cash games in this context, versus tournament.  He was saying it used to be that you didn't see as many hands going to showdown and pot bets were more prevalent.  Perhaps I am over compensating for randomness, but in general I am happy to take a pot down and move onto the next hand. 

And to expound on this, I think Antonio was saying that generally players are betting smaller, not bigger, and not trying to "take pots down".  If we can take down a $40 pot 100% of the time, or have a 70% chance of winning a $200 pot, which is better?

It's the same concept as the guys who all of a sudden pop up and open for 10-20x the BB and after the hand show JJ and say "only way to play 'em!" or some other nonsense. You are just winning the blinds, except for the times someone has QQ+ and you are playing your stack as a 4 to 1 underdog.

[disgustipated 39]

I really appreciate you taking the time.  The A3o hand is not something I would normally play especially in EP, and I agree check calling pre 13 is passive.  That said, we were 7 handed and I was wanting a multi-way pot with this holding (a point of further discussion) and felt a raise (more appropriate line preflop LAG play) with action behind me would get me heads up.  And yet, I check min raised OTF to isolate,  mostly because of the spade flush draw perhaps a too aggressive line (for post flop LAG).  I tried playing some of the hands more passive post flop this session and had much higher variance. 

The KK hand was the first one I played after we consolidated tables. I had $400 in my stack.  Highest card as I recall was a 9 and there were two hearts. So I jammed 375 into a 225 pot.

In the A7 hand, I was saying he had put 70 into the pot.  It was after the KK hand so I had between 5 and 6 hundred in my stack.  I agree, there were all sort of things wrong with the way I played that hand.  It highlights exactly what you said there are very few hands that can call and he happened to have it and a draw to win. 

As I said I broke quite my guidelines this session and the poker gods gave me the right opponents at the right time.  

 

[disgustipated 39]

2 hours ago, TXSooner518 said:

And to expound on this, I think Antonio was saying that generally players are betting smaller, not bigger, and not trying to "take pots down".  If we can take down a $40 pot 100% of the time, or have a 70% chance of winning a $200 pot, which is better?

It's the same concept as the guys who all of a sudden pop up and open for 10-20x the BB and after the hand show JJ and say "only way to play 'em!" or some other nonsense. You are just winning the blinds, except for the times someone has QQ+ and you are playing your stack as a 4 to 1 underdog.

Yes that perfectly sums what he was saying.  And definitely something I am struggling with.  It's led to me jamming a lot of turns.   I am over compensating for randomness, the suck, re-suck when its about maximizing winnings not just winning pots. 

correction:  jammed 325 into 225.

Edited August 24, 2018 by disgustipated

[TXSooner518 2438]

49 minutes ago, disgustipated said:

I really appreciate you taking the time.  The A3o hand is not something I would normally play especially in EP, and I agree check calling pre 13 is passive.  That said, we were 7 handed and I was wanting a multi-way pot with this holding (a point of further discussion) and felt a raise (more appropriate line preflop LAG play) with action behind me would get me heads up.  And yet, I check min raised OTF to isolate,  mostly because of the spade flush draw perhaps a too aggressive line (for post flop LAG).  I tried playing some of the hands more passive post flop this session and had much higher variance. 

The KK hand was the first one I played after we consolidated tables. I had $400 in my stack.  Highest card as I recall was a 9 and there were two hearts. So I jammed 375 into a 225 pot.

In the A7 hand, I was saying he had put 70 into the pot.  It was after the KK hand so I had between 5 and 6 hundred in my stack.  I agree, there were all sort of things wrong with the way I played that hand.  It highlights exactly what you said there are very few hands that can call and he happened to have it and a draw to win. 

As I said I broke quite my guidelines this session and the poker gods gave me the right opponents at the right time.  

 

I definitely don't think we want to take A3o multiway.  We want hands that can flop huge hands for multiway.  So suited aces, suited connectors, and small pairs are the best for that.  Depending on the table, and your image, it can be reasonable to raise A3 or fold it.  I would fold at tables with lots of 3-betting or people who are sticky postflop. I would raise it at a table of people who will call with hands like K9 pre and then just checkfold if they don't hit the flop hard.

The flop play doesn't help you against the flush draw because for sure the bettor isn't folding spades for 30 more and likely the other players won't fold a spade draw for 60 here if they paid 13 pre to see if they could get a flush draw. That's why I'm saying we should either call here and evaluate the turn, or make a bigger raise that might price out the draws. I would generally raise here, trying to get money from an ace and to get flush draws to incorrectly call, and knowing that hands like TT-KK probably aren't putting any more money in anyway unless they blast a disaster set on us on the turn.  I would raise to 100 or so.

Why did you jam the turn? I would have checked, or bet 70 in your shoes, and 100 in mine.

On the KK hand, did you have the Kh?  If so, I would have bet 115 on the flop, and jammed every turn except a non-heart A.  If no, I would have bet 140 on the flop, jammed every blank turn, jammed a heart if only one flop caller, check-evaluate ace or heart if both call flop.

Those plays would have us jamming 210 into 455 if one caller in example one, and 185 into 480 on the other.  This allows people to talk themselves into calling off worse hands than ours in chunks instead of having to call off 325 cold, especially when you showed big strength pre.  What would you have done with AKss on this hand?

32 minutes ago, disgustipated said:

Yes that perfectly sums what he was saying.  And definitely something I am struggling with.  It's led to me jamming a lot of turns.   I am over compensating for randomness, the suck, re-suck when its about maximizing winnings not just winning pots. 

correction:  jammed 325 into 225.

Almost every poker player struggles with maximizing winning money instead of winning pots. Ask a limit player why they didn't raise AA when everyone limped to them in the BB:  "Eh, they were just all gonna call anyway."  Right. So you aren't increasing your chances of winning the pot.  But you are putting in 10% of the money and have around 35% of the equity, so you win $3.50 for every $1 going into the pot, soooooooo make the pot bigger.

[po elvis 2070]

3 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

Why did you jam the turn? I would have checked, or bet 70 in your shoes, and 100 in mine.

i think he really got fooled by the guy lining up his chips and thought he was going to get a call. i know i have been fooled by that in the past and now realize, as he does, that it is done to keep someone from betting. i bet if the guy wouldn't have done that disgustipated would have thrown out a much smaller bet.

[po elvis 2070]

57 minutes ago, disgustipated said:

Yes that perfectly sums what he was saying.  And definitely something I am struggling with.  It's led to me jamming a lot of turns.   I am over compensating for randomness, the suck, re-suck when its about maximizing winnings not just winning pots. 

correction:  jammed 325 into 225.

i have always struggled a lot with that, so i do bet people out so i don't have to make tough decisions to big bets on the river. but i am getting better at that. i try to get people to talk (or not talk). start counting and stacking up your chips as if you might call. if the opponent starts talking after they see you doing this, that is a huge tell that they want you to fold. they are trying to change your course of action. or if they see you are probably going to fold, they might start talking to try and get you to call. this tell has allowed me to make some huge calls or folds.

[NateHitch 1282]

Just want to vent for a sec. Played some $1/2 no limit online last night.  Bought in for $200 and had worked it up to $300, was getting late and I was ready to shut it down.  Got AA utg and raised to 10, BB and SB called.  Flop was AJ3.  SB bets out 20, BB folds, I raise to 60 and he goes all-in, he had me covered.  I call and he shows JJ.  J on the river.  Worst part was villain and I had had some good battles, could have just been all in my head but I felt he was super aggressive with me, raising my BB every time and just trying to push me around all night so the gut punch was extra strong with this one.  Wanted to throw the computer through the back window.

[Lurch 5922]

Ouch! Nothing you could do

[NateHitch 1282]

Yup.  I had told myself 3 more hands and I was done.  Had J10 heart that I wanted to play but had to fold to a raise and re-raise and then AA came along the next hand.  It's a cruel, cruel game sometimes