Coaches Adjusting to Transfer Portal

[LTtxfan 48980]

https://pistolsfiringblog.com/mike-gundy-on-transfer-rule-ncaa-got-a-little-ahead-of-themselves/

Mike Gundy.....

“You have to start working that now,” said Gundy. “(There will probably be) another recruiting service and office just for portal recruiting, based on high school and junior college recruiting. So we’re just going to have to play our way through it and see how it all falls. It’s new for us.”

One gripe Oklahoma State’s CEO has is, what at least he perceives, an oversight by the council when the change was made — the rigid 25-scholarship limit per year that doesn’t account for those who may leave early or exercise their right to transfer.

"The NCAA is going to have to adjust the rules,” said Gundy. “They’re going to have to get rid of the initials. Gonna have to go to just 85 scholarships, cause you can’t keep losing 3-4 kids a year based on the vehicle they’re using for young men to transfer. So once they wanted to put that in place, I’m good if that’s what they wanna do. But they have to adjust it along the way.

"They got a little ahead of themselves, in my opinion. They’re in a position now where they’re gonna have to make some adjustments really fast.”

"I have to say that I agree with Gundy on this point. Make it a rolling 85-scholly limit, and leave it up to schools as to how and when they fill that number as long as they don’t exceed it."

[LTtxfan 48980]

More from Gundy...

Gundy said he doesn’t see transfer rules being any more strict in the future, in fact, he said he wouldn’t be surprised if it got to the point where players wouldn’t have to sit out a year after transferring.

For the time being, it puts coaches in a tough spot. Gundy gave an example of a team having 23 seniors and seven other players leaving, meaning 30 left in total. Teams are only able to sign 25 kids a season, meaning five slots are gone. Teams can have 85 scholarship players on their roster and Gundy said probably the closest he’ll be able to get that next year is 82.

"We live in a very, very, very liberal society where things like that are not gonna be debated or confronted based on the number of lawsuits that have been filed already out there in San Francisco,” Gundy said. “The NCAA’s got so many lawsuits right now they can’t even cover them all. So, young man comes in and says he wants to leave, and you tell him no, and he goes over here and files a suit against whoever, then they don’t want that battle, so that’s why it’s the way it is right now."

"And it’s not gonna change, they don’t wanna mess with it. I would not be shocked if at some point they take the one-year sit and transfer out, and players can just go from team to team.”

[Reese Bennett 3605]

Anyone in the portal we want?

(Besides our QBs.)

[po elvis 2070]

I guess the coaches are going to have to try and start earning their money now.

[mulletpelini 5209]

Does this mean we get NCAA football back on playstation

[LTtxfan 48980]

1 hour ago, Reese Bennett said:

Anyone in the portal we want?

(Besides our QBs.)

Gundy has Okie Lite scouring the portal....

 

Edited December 23, 2018 by LTtxfan

[WBT 20422]

[RollLeft 5040]

Glad to know he's being a man about it. 

[kevwun 15653]

Getting rid of the 1 year wait will ruin college football.  Let players transfer without the 1 year wait when their coach leaves or is fired because that is fair.  If you let everyone transfer, the SEC will buying players for amounts that will be insane.  How much do you think Alabama will pay for a proven starter?

[Doc Reeves 6434]

Kinda makes me like College Football a little less

[Francisco 2.0 32342]

[Lat22 3994]

8 minutes ago, Doc Reeves said:

Kinda makes me like College Football a little less

Yep. A lot of little things are starting to add up. 

[kevwun 15653]

The 1 year wait isn't a small thing.  It's the killing blow because it will turn most programs in to minor league teams for the big boys.

[Mileslong 4715]

Yep. A lot of little things are starting to add up. 

Its like there’s a committee in place who’s only purpose is to ruin college football...

Coming soon to a school near you:

1) no transfer rules
2) pay players whatever the market will bear, so schools just try to outbid each other for each athlete like nfl free agency.
3) no entrance requirements
4) no need to attend classes

[LTtxfan 48980]

Does NCAA need a Commissioner??

https://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/college/2016/05/31/nick-saban-wants-college-football-commissioner/85223740/

May 31, 2016

Speaking at the Southeastern Conference annual meetings Tuesday, Saban said satellite camps are “bad for college football.”

The Crimson Tide coach added “there needs to be somebody that looks out for what’s best for the game, not what’s best for the Big Ten or what’s best for the SEC or what’s best for Jim Harbaugh, but what’s best for the game of college football — the integrity of the game, the coaches, the players and the people that play it. That’s bigger than all of this.”

Saban said each of the Power Five conferences continue to politick for what they want, often creating the kind of chaos that surrounded satellite camps earlier this year. The NCAA Division I Board of Directors rescinded a proposed ban on satellite camps in April, rebuffing a request from the SEC and others and clearing the way for coaches to hold clinics far from their campuses.

Saban said someone should be overseeing all of it. Asked who he would want in the role, Saban didn’t have anyone specific in mind.

“I don’t have a candidate. I’m not in politics,” he said. “I’m just telling you what I think, what needs to be done.”

[Guest]

If satellite camps bother Saban, i'm for them.

[HenryJames 65890]

Yeah, quote Nick Saban on protecting ‘the integrity of the game.’

[LTtxfan 48980]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/alabama-coach-nick-saban-wary-of-new-redshirt-transfer-rule-its-a-pretty-slippery-slope/

This came out right after Bryant announced he was leaving Clemson.....

Sep 26, 2018

Saban thinks that the new rules could have a negative impact on the whole team.  Primarily, Saban appears to think that players shouldn't be able to just up and leave.

"It's a little bit of a slippery slope when players start to decide whether they're going to play or not," he said. "I'm not saying there aren't some circumstances out there where it's not beneficial to the player to save a year so that he could play in another circumstance. But those things should probably be mutually agreed upon.

"But it is what it is. I think the intent of the rule was to help the development of young players. This is sort of an unintended consequence probably of the rule which in some cases might help a player."

Saban is right, of course. The rule wasn't just put into place to allow players to get back onto the field after a year, it was put into place to get more true freshman onto the field. The extended transfer window was an unintended effect. In Bryant's case, he won't have to miss a snap as a graduate transfer. Non-graduate transfers require waivers filed on their behalf by their schools (e.g. Shea Patterson at Michigan).

Saban, however, is obligated to look at things from a coaching standpoint, not a player one. When CBS Sports' Dennis Dodd asked Saban if this meant that he'd have to change how he'd coach, he replied:

"I can't speak for others. If we had circumstances in our program where players don't do what they're supposed to do -- whether we have rules about going to class or going to meetings and players decided that 'I'm not doing that' --  what are we supposed to do?

"When is it insubordination when a player doesn't do what he is supposed to do to be part of the team?"

The NCAA's four-game rule has led to a slew of regular season transfers.   This week, Bryant, Oklahoma State wide receiver Jalen McCleskey, Oregon running back Taj Griffin and Auburn wide receiver Nate Craig-Myers elected to move on to greener pastures after this season. Of those names, Craig-Myers is the only one who will require an exemption from the NCAA to play next year as an undergrad transfer.

Although the rule hasn't impacted Saban yet, he's clearly preparing for when it does. Coaches invest a lot in these players. Their staff gets to know them well during recruitment, which may be why Saban is wary of the avenues this could open up. Even though coaches tend to have a soft stance on the rule while speaking about it -- a lot of them wanted it passed after all -- it makes sense that they aren't fans of the immediate effects.

Edited December 23, 2018 by LTtxfan

[LTtxfan 48980]

One thing not yet discussed is most players are on a 4yr Scholarship from the School, but player can leave at any time (1 yr commitment) .....  this is an agreement more heavily weighted in favor of the player.  

Might need to consider reducing a year of eligibility from a player that Redshirts 1st year then immediately leaves....... otherwise, what incentive does a school have to Redshirt and develop a freshman then lose the player??

[Guest]

yeah, right... the players are getting over on the system...that's exactly where the concerns should be.

[LTtxfan 48980]

25 minutes ago, slorch said:

yeah, right... the players are getting over on the system...that's exactly where the concerns should be.

So what's your recommendation??  Probably done with quality players playing more than 3 years now In today's CFB landscape.

In theory if Rising transfers, he could sit out a year and plays let's say 1 year at UCLA, graduates and immediately transfers to USC, plays a year and immediately transfers to BlowU, plays a year and then immediately transfers and plays at Bama.

Grad Transfer QB's gonna be hired guns..... watch the under the table money flow....

Edited December 23, 2018 by LTtxfan

[kevwun 15653]

You don't cure cancer by giving the patient Ebola.  That seems to be what the NCAA is intent on doing though.

Edited December 23, 2018 by kevwun

[BB65 476]

Eliminate the redshirt except in cases of injury. 

[LTtxfan 48980]

1 minute ago, BB65 said:

Eliminate the redshirt except in cases of injury. 

Probably not good for non-P5 schools, plus having 5 years for kids in smaller schools helps provide struggling students a better chance to earn a Degree....

[BB65 476]

Just now, LTtxfan said:

Probably not good for non-P5 schools, plus having 5 years for kids in smaller schools helps provide struggling students a better chance to earn a Degree....

The kids in it for a degree could stay a 5th year and graduate just not be eligible to complete. Most 5 stars are looking for a high draft grade not a degree. 

[HornsOverIthaca 2333]

It will take you a million light years from home. But will it bring you back?

[runthebone 7932]

12 hours ago, po elvis said:

I guess the coaches are going to have to try and start earning their money now.

Yes.  They were always free to leave whenever they wanted. 

[LTtxfan 48980]

https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/Bulldogs-Kirby-Smart-knows-a-transfer-trend-is-sweeping-College-Football-126692137/

Kirby Smart addressed the media on Wednesday for the first time since the news broke that freshman quarterback Justin Fields plans to explore his transfer options. Smart spoke both about the Fields situation directly as well as the nationwide trend of student-athletes deciding to leave their schools.

“I think it’s going to be a reality, not just quarterbacks, just kids in general,” Smart said of the issue. “You know, if you look at the transfer rate in high school, every high school program that I go in, the coaches in Florida say, ‘It’s crazy here. A kid can go to any school he wants.’ The coaches in Georgia say, ‘It’s getting crazy here because kids can move and bonafide move and go to different places.’ So you hear the effect of that, and I think, the easier it is for a kid to transfer in high school, then it’s easy for him to do it in college as well. It’s going to be more who adjust to it, who handles it well.”

“I’m not the one to sit here and say whether it’s right or wrong to be able to do it,” Smart continued. “It’s our job as coaches to deal with it. It’s the landscape that we now face. I do wish there was some timing that was a little better. The toughest thing is guys making decisions to do that midseason. That’s really tough. Fortunately, we didn’t have that issue, but I think the time is now, when the season ends, the kids that want to explore their options, that’s a lot cleaner than the fourth game of the year.”

[SunUvAbitchMarcos 129]

Getting rid of the 1 year wait will ruin college football.  Let players transfer without the 1 year wait when their coach leaves or is fired because that is fair.  If you let everyone transfer, the SEC will buying players for amounts that will be insane.  How much do you think Alabama will pay for a proven starter?

No more than the goin’ rate.

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

So what's your recommendation??  Probably done with quality players playing more than 3 years now In today's CFB landscape.

In theory if Rising transfers, he could sit out a year and plays let's say 1 year at UCLA, graduates and immediately transfers to USC, plays a year and immediately transfers to BlowU, plays a year and then immediately transfers and plays at Bama.

Grad Transfer QB's gonna be hired guns..... watch the under the table money flow....

The right answer is to blow up the massive corruption and illicit revenue stream that is bigtime college football.

That ain't happening in our lifetimes though.

 

Any notion that there is some purity or sanctity left to protect is a fucking joke.

 

The more fucked up it becomes, the better, IMHO.

Edited December 23, 2018 by slorch

[Hank Chinaski 6310]

12 minutes ago, slorch said:

The right answer is to blow up the massive corruption and illicit revenue stream that is bigtime college football.

That ain't happening in our lifetimes though.

 

Any notion that there is some purity or sanctity left to protect is a fucking joke.

 

The more fucked up it becomes, the better, IMHO.

Yup. We essentially have free agency in college football at this point. And none of this is going to reverse any time soon. 

The "amateur" element is gone. I know there have always been rule-breakers, but now it just seems systemic. 

[mulletpelini 5209]

3 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

One thing not yet discussed is most players are on a 4yr Scholarship from the School, but player can leave at any time (1 yr commitment) .....  this is an agreement more heavily weighted in favor of the player.  

Might need to consider reducing a year of eligibility from a player that Redshirts 1st year then immediately leaves....... otherwise, what incentive does a school have to Redshirt and develop a freshman then lose the player??

Quote

 

You are allowed to be on athletic scholarships for up to five years in your college career.
Coaches are able to adjust the amount of the scholarship at the end of each year when it expires. That means they can increase, decrease, or get canceled altogether.

In order to make sure that you maintain your good status and keep your scholarship, you need to make sure you do what is expected of you. As a student-athlete, that means keeping up in your classes, getting good grades, training and contributing to your team.

If for some reason you become ineligible in any way, the coach has full right to give your scholarship away to someone else.

 

https://www.athleticscholarships.net/question/how-long-does-my-athletic-scholarship-last

4 years doesn't mean what I think you think it means.  How else do you think Saban stays at exactly 85 and oversigns every fucking year.

[Mileslong 4715]

The right answer is to blow up the massive corruption and illicit revenue stream that is bigtime college football.
That ain't happening in our lifetimes though.
 
Any notion that there is some purity or sanctity left to protect is a fucking joke.
 
The more fucked up it becomes, the better, IMHO.

And I take it you’re one of the idiots that players should be paid like pros with no caps, no transfer rules at all and just key schools bid on players like free agency?

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Mileslong said:

And I take it you’re one of the idiots that players should be paid like pros with no caps, no transfer rules at all and just key schools bid on players like free agency?

Are you suggesting the hughest bids are not already part of the equation?

 

If so, I have beachfront property in Lubbock to sell ya...

Edited December 23, 2018 by slorch

[Mileslong 4715]

Are you suggesting the hughest bids are not already part of the equation?
 
If so, I have beachfront property in Lubbock to sell ya...

No, currently these student athletes don’t have agents negotiating multi million dollar deals for them to attend certain schools. If you disagree give me examples

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Mileslong said:

No, currently these student athletes don’t have agents negotiating multi million dollar deals for them to attend certain schools. If you disagree give me examples

Cam Newton...among others. 

 

Look if you want to lie to yourself, that’s cool. Just don’t expect everyone else to do the same. 

And that’s even considering the bullshit administration of college football from the NCAA’s side  

 

Kids can’t even get through Triple A Youth basketball without rampant corruption. I guess you expect to believe where even mire cash is at hand, there is nothing to report. Pristine as a virgin’s honey pot. 

Of course it is...

Edited December 23, 2018 by slorch

[mulletpelini 5209]

Hell Cam was so unethical Urban sent him packing

[Mileslong 4715]

So you prove my point, a few cases where a player received some under the table hundreds or a few thousand isn’t free agency so quit equating the two.

Why you want to make college athletics like the pros is beyond me

[gmr548 16517]

I think the double standard for coaches vs student athletes is legit, and it can't just be ignored. I also think amending the transfer rule to allow for no-eligibility-lost transfers if a coach takes another job/is fired/whatever pretty much alleviates that issue.

[Gardner Barnes 1562]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/alabama-coach-nick-saban-wary-of-new-redshirt-transfer-rule-its-a-pretty-slippery-slope/
This came out right after Bryant announced he was leaving Clemson.....
Sep 26, 2018
Saban thinks that the new rules could have a negative impact on the whole team.  Primarily, Saban appears to think that players shouldn't be able to just up and leave.
"It's a little bit of a slippery slope when players start to decide whether they're going to play or not," he said. "I'm not saying there aren't some circumstances out there where it's not beneficial to the player to save a year so that he could play in another circumstance. But those things should probably be mutually agreed upon.
"But it is what it is. I think the intent of the rule was to help the development of young players. This is sort of an unintended consequence probably of the rule which in some cases might help a player."
Saban is right, of course. The rule wasn't just put into place to allow players to get back onto the field after a year, it was put into place to get more true freshman onto the field. The extended transfer window was an unintended effect. In Bryant's case, he won't have to miss a snap as a graduate transfer. Non-graduate transfers require waivers filed on their behalf by their schools (e.g. Shea Patterson at Michigan).
Saban, however, is obligated to look at things from a coaching standpoint, not a player one. When CBS Sports' Dennis Dodd asked Saban if this meant that he'd have to change how he'd coach, he replied:
"I can't speak for others. If we had circumstances in our program where players don't do what they're supposed to do -- whether we have rules about going to class or going to meetings and players decided that 'I'm not doing that' --  what are we supposed to do?
"When is it insubordination when a player doesn't do what he is supposed to do to be part of the team?"
The NCAA's four-game rule has led to a slew of regular season transfers.   This week, Bryant, Oklahoma State wide receiver Jalen McCleskey, Oregon running back Taj Griffin and Auburn wide receiver Nate Craig-Myers elected to move on to greener pastures after this season. Of those names, Craig-Myers is the only one who will require an exemption from the NCAA to play next year as an undergrad transfer.
Although the rule hasn't impacted Saban yet, he's clearly preparing for when it does. Coaches invest a lot in these players. Their staff gets to know them well during recruitment, which may be why Saban is wary of the avenues this could open up. Even though coaches tend to have a soft stance on the rule while speaking about it -- a lot of them wanted it passed after all -- it makes sense that they aren't fans of the immediate effects.

I don’t know if things have changed but they weren’t 4 year scholarships when I played, everyone was on a 1 year scholarship that was renewed yearly. You just had playing limitations - 5 years to play 4.

[Mileslong 4715]

I think the double standard for coaches vs student athletes is legit, and it can't just be ignored. I also think amending the transfer rule to allow for no-eligibility-lost transfers if a coach takes another job/is fired/whatever pretty much alleviates that issue.

Who ever said that student athletes and coaches are supposed to have equal rights? Do students and professors? They are in different positions of responsibility.

Why should Erhlinger make a million dollars a year playing college football and Timmy Nobis not get a penny? Just because football makes more money now? Today they have better facilities than a lot of pro teams, better living conditions, better treatment, their own tv network etc.

Making college athletics like pro sports would ruin what makes it special

[gmr548 16517]

28 minutes ago, Mileslong said:

Who ever said that student athletes and coaches are supposed to have equal rights? Do students and professors? They are in different positions of responsibility.

Why should Erhlinger make a million dollars a year playing college football and Timmy Nobis not get a penny? Just because football makes more money now? Today they have better facilities than a lot of pro teams, better living conditions, better treatment, their own tv network etc.

Making college athletics like pro sports would ruin what makes it special
 

Jesus, talk about overreacting. Did I suggest that student athletes should be paid monster salaries, or that they are using bad facilities, they live in poor conditions, or that their injuries aren't tended to?

Because you apparently don't know the correct answer to that question based on your initial response, let me help you - no, I did not. You brought those up despite their irrelevance.

Students and professors actually generally do have equal rights when it comes to transferring between institutions. Coaches are compensated in ways players are not, which reflects their different responsibilities. A music student doesn't have to skip a year of marching in the band or singing in the choir if they transfer. A chemistry student isn't barred from participating in research for a year if they transfer. I could go on. I think it's silly to tell an athlete that they face a penalty for transferring institutions when there is a significant, fundamental change in the program they're a part of. Especially when coaches, who are highly compensated for results that said athletes are a major part of producing, face no such restrictions at any point.

[LTtxfan 48980]

1 hour ago, Gardner Barnes said:

I don’t know if things have changed but they weren’t 4 year scholarships when I played, everyone was on a 1 year scholarship that was renewed yearly. You just had playing limitations - 5 years to play 4.

Changed for P5 Schools in 2015..... no longer a 1 year Scholarship that can be revoked by the P5 Schools for poor athletic performance....

"In 2015, the NCAA Division I “Power 5” Schools implemented a rule that has the effect of “protecting” Division I student-athletes from having their athletic scholarship cancelled or not renewed for any athletics reason.  Quite simply, a coach cannot take away a scholarship for poor athletic performance."

https://informedathlete.com/the-facts-about-guaranteed-multi-year-ncaa-di-scholarships/

Edited December 23, 2018 by LTtxfan

[Mileslong 4715]

Student athletes are different than just plain students. They live by different rules from day one, no drugs, keep up grades etc. they get more perks and I’m fine with that. I think they should get a stipend which covers things not included in their scholarship. I don’t think they should be free agents like Slorch

[LTtxfan 48980]

1 hour ago, gmr548 said:

I think the double standard for coaches vs student athletes is legit, and it can't just be ignored. I also think amending the transfer rule to allow for no-eligibility-lost transfers if a coach takes another job/is fired/whatever pretty much alleviates that issue.

Need to make it a rolling 85-scholly limit like Gundy suggested to allow for a situation where 20 players transfer from a school because the Head Coach left......

Example where not having Rolling 85 hurts:

"For the time being, it puts coaches in a tough spot. Gundy gave an example of a team having 23 seniors and seven other players leaving, meaning 30 left in total. Teams are only able to sign 25 kids a season, meaning five slots are gone. Teams can have 85 scholarship players on their roster and Gundy said probably the closest he’ll be able to get that next year is 82."

Edited December 23, 2018 by LTtxfan

[ousux 5587]

Kinda makes me like College Football a little less

Yeah, it's been heading in the direction of NFL junior league for some time now, NCAA is just accelerating the transformation.

[LTtxfan 48980]

 

Good conversation on changing environment of transfers in CFB.....

Edited December 25, 2018 by LTtxfan

[52-80 19097]

On 12/23/2018 at 9:13 PM, Mileslong said:

So you prove my point, a few cases where a player received some under the table hundreds or a few thousand isn’t free agency so quit equating the two.

Why you want to make college athletics like the pros is beyond me

because it is professional athletics,  except most of the players dont get explicit pay.

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

.09% of high school football players will make it to the professional level. The schools making money means nothing. The coaches making money means nothing. 

Force the NFL to allow 18yr olds in the draft. If not drafted, the schools should have zero responsibility to pay the student athletes anything more than they already receive. They have a professional dollar value of 0. And yes, it is about the student athlete because the vast majority will never be payed to play football. 

Universities making money from unpaid interns or grad students is no different that the Universiites making money off of their Football delevlopment courses. If your value on the open market is ZERO (high school freshmen) why would they be owed money for the free high level training that will enable a student to go from undrafted to a professional in as little as three years. (With the possibility to make millions).  

Let the ones who can make money on themselves (likeness or nfl draft) do so. The rest can pound sand that the University makes money off of them like they do thousands of students for many years. They are not special. 

By all means, create a feeder system and see if they can outdraw college football. The schools provide 90% of the value earned. The players are 100% replaceable. 

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

23 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

because it is professional athletics,  except most of the players dont get explicit pay.

How s this different from the school profiting from a patent developed by grad students?  

Players movement should not be restricted at all. If it hurts the “product” who cares. 

Edited December 25, 2018 by ChickenSandwich