Coaches Adjusting to Transfer Portal

[LTtxfan 49386]

Article mentions Kirby's thoughts on continuing to recruit QBs this fall...... reality is you have to be prepared that more players may decide to transfer in the future because it's easier.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/columnist/dan-wolken/2018/12/25/quarterback-transfer-market-college-football-hottest-topic/2411579002/

[AustinMT 952]

[BurntOrange&White 40059]

.09% of high school football players will make it to the professional level. The schools making money means nothing. The coaches making money means nothing. 
Force the NFL to allow 18yr olds in the draft. If not drafted, the schools should have zero responsibility to pay the student athletes anything more than they already receive. They have a professional dollar value of 0. And yes, it is about the student athlete because the vast majority will never be payed to play football. 
Universities making money from unpaid interns or grad students is no different that the Universiites making money off of their Football delevlopment courses. If your value on the open market is ZERO (high school freshmen) why would they be owed money for the free high level training that will enable a student to go from undrafted to a professional in as little as three years. (With the possibility to make millions).  
Let the ones who can make money on themselves (likeness or nfl draft) do so. The rest can pound sand that the University makes money off of them like they do thousands of students for many years. They are not special. 
By all means, create a feeder system and see if they can outdraw college football. The schools provide 90% of the value earned. The players are 100% replaceable. 

Football isn’t basketball. The pro game is more complex than HS and even college. Mentally and physically HS players won’t do shit in the NFL except for rare talents such as AD, Clowney types who only come around every so often.

[Guest]

On 12/23/2018 at 3:44 PM, Mileslong said:

Student athletes are different than just plain students. They live by different rules from day one, no drugs, keep up grades etc. they get more perks and I’m fine with that. I think they should get a stipend which covers things not included in their scholarship. I don’t think they should be free agents like Slorch
 

I did not say they should or should not be free agents.

I said acting as if the system isn't already beyond repair is folly.  Discussing the topic as if there is some sanctity or purity left in college football is a joke.

[LTtxfan 49386]

20 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

 

Good conversation on changing environment of transfers in CFB.....

bump

[Spankytoes 1743]

It's simple...

You sign a LOI to play for a D-1 school, you get a scholarship.

If you want to transfer to another school, you can do so freely on 2 conditions:

1. You can't transfer to a school in the same conference and remain eligible to play football.

2. You can play football at a non-conference school, but as a walk-on player. No more scholarship

If the NCAA wants to emphasize the "student" part of being a student athlete, this is the way to go. There are much more deserving students that cannot afford college out there and will be saddled with a student loan for much of their adult lives because they weren't gifted with the genetics to play sports. If you want to squander that opportunity on a Liberal Arts degree because you are waiting for the rest of the world to catch up with the thought that you're going to be a first ballot HOFer in the NFL, that's on you. 

But, this will give more ammo for boosters to skirt the rules and essentially buy players with their own, just invented, exclusive scholarships. At least it would be out in the open.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Spankytoes

[NWAustinDude 2252]

Gotdammit, it all worked fine in the 1970's when we had JV teams. Then the FR& SO kids who can't play for the varsity can motherfucking play for the Junior Varsity. In today's landscape, JV games would draw at least half a stadium. Bring back JV teams and bring back LABELMAKERS!

 

[Doc Reeves 6434]

4 hours ago, Spankytoes said:

It's simple...

You sign a LOI to play for a D-1 school, you get a scholarship.

If you want to transfer to another school, you can do so freely on 2 conditions:

1. You can't transfer to a school in the same conference and remain eligible to play football.

2. You can play football at a non-conference school, but as a walk-on player. No more scholarship

If the NCAA wants to emphasize the "student" part of being a student athlete, this is the way to go. There are much more deserving students that cannot afford college out there and will be saddled with a student loan for much of their adult lives because they weren't gifted with the genetics to play sports. If you want to squander that opportunity on a Liberal Arts degree because you are waiting for the rest of the world to catch up with the thought that you're going to be a first ballot HOFer in the NFL, that's on you. 

But, this will give more ammo for boosters to skirt the rules and essentially buy players with their own, just invented, exclusive scholarships. At least it would be out in the open.

The reason that exact scenario hasn’t occurred yet it very telling of what the NCAA cares most about

[LTtxfan 49386]

Herman addresses situation with Rising and Thompson in the Transfer Portal....

 

[Funk Doctor Spock 12554]

On 12/26/2018 at 4:51 AM, Bevo VIII said:

Football isn’t basketball. The pro game is more complex than HS and even college. Mentally and physically HS players won’t do shit in the NFL except for rare talents such as AD, Clowney types who only come around every so often.

And it still took Clowney a few years to adjust. 

[LTtxfan 49386]

1 hour ago, LTtxfan said:

Herman addresses situation with Rising and Thompson in the Transfer Portal....

 

Btw..... Rising and Thompson both attending Sugar Bowl

Edited December 28, 2018 by LTtxfan

[dcar00 14435]

51 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Btw..... Rising and Thompson both attending Sugar Bowl

don't want to miss out on the swag and free trip.

[LTtxfan 49386]

33 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

don't want to miss out on the swag and free trip.

Can't say that I blame them for making the trip.  I went to "The Crescent City" during Sugar Bowl Week when I was at UT and had a Blast!! 

Maybe one or both players returns to Texas for the spring as a result of the trip....🤘

[LTtxfan 49386]

Beck Handles Transfer Portal Question well.....

 

[LTtxfan 49386]

sec commissioner fires a shot at transfer portal waiver process.....

https://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/sports/2019/04/22/secs-sankey-discusses-transfer-portal-other-ncaa-issues-apse-event/3542436002/

"The part of the transfer issue that Sankey did take exception to is whether the NCAA is granting immediately eligibility waivers on a carte blanche basis, calling the mere suggestion that is what is happening with transferring players “a bit of an understatement.”

“It just doesn't seem that we're in the right place on that particular part of the issue because it just creates confusion,” Sankey said. “Young people just make decisions, just say well, this person transferred and played right away, therefore, I will be able to transfer and play right away. (And) that may not be true.

“We’re going to have to continue in this learning cycle. … I’d like us to make informed decisions.”

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stanky...... I mean Sankey also commented about the transfer terminology.... 

Sankey simply doesn’t like the terminology being used.

“Obviously, we've sent a number of people back to the dictionary to figure out what the word ‘portal’ means from the early Star Trek days,” Sankey quipped during his annual question-and-answer session at the Associated Press Sports Editors’ Southeastern Regional meeting Monday morning inside the SEC league offices in downtown Birmingham."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Coaches asking questions about portal too.

Quote:  “We better be careful,” TCU head football coach Gary Patterson said last month, according to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. “We won’t have college football. It’s disappointing, to be honest with you. It’s disappointing.”

Sankey admitted he’s heard some conflicting opinions from several SEC head coaches.

“I have heard the question: ‘What are we doing?’ … And that’s the conversation I’m having with coaches,” Sankey said. “Yeah, there’s frustration because we’re in a time of change. What I’ve not heard is ‘we’re not doing the right thing.’ I have heard the question: ‘Are we doing the right thing?’ and ‘What does this mean practically?’ Because, with some of our coaches, they’ve said to me very honestly: ‘I’ve stayed out of this activities, particularly with grad transfers, but if this is the new way things will be going forward, then I’m going to be active.’ And candidly, I think our programs will be the beneficiaries of young people that want to explore the opportunity to play at the highest, most visible level at that point in their academic and athletic careers.”

Edited April 23, 2019 by LTtxfan

[notre dame joe 197]

They might have to re-sign 85 players every Feb.

[Matuka 1315]

Give us Bru this year, then firm up the rules if necessary.

[ChickenSandwich 9856]

Get rid of the 25 scholarship rule to help. Raise the number of scholarships.

DONT limit the options of the student athlete and where they choose to pursue their degree. Tough shit if you don’t like it. I’m sure the Redshirt freshman loves it when his coach leaves for a new team. Does Gary have the same concern?

who cares what the consequences are for the coaches and the schools, it’s not supposed to be about them, remember?

[Gene Parmesan 4016]

23 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Get rid of the 25 scholarship rule to help. Raise the number of scholarships.

DONT limit the options of the student athlete and where they choose to pursue their degree. Tough shit if you don’t like it. I’m sure the Redshirt freshman loves it when his coach leaves for a new team. Does Gary have the same concern?

who cares what the consequences are for the coaches and the schools, it’s not supposed to be about them, remember?

It's so simple that I feel like I am taking crazy pills.  Why the fuck do we think we need to control where people attend college?  So our TV viewing experience is 0.1% more enjoyable?  Coaches just need to go to the universities and demand raises for the added responsibilities of having to actually present attributes that players want to play for. 

[BrazilHorn 6638]

It’s hard to feel sorry for coaches who can leave their teams at anytime. 

The ability to transfer is a great check/balance to recruiting sales pitches coaches use. 

[DanTheHorn 4970]

I say they close the transfer portal to freshman and sophomores. Open it up to them once they have been at a program for two years with no sitting out period. Protect kids from their own worst instincts and don't make guys that have a pretty clear idea of where they stand with the program after two years sit out for a year.

[Gene Parmesan 4016]

20 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

I say they close the transfer portal to freshman and sophomores. Open it up to them once they have been at a program for two years with no sitting out period. Protect kids from their own worst instincts and don't make guys that have a pretty clear idea of where they stand with the program after two years sit out for a year. 

They're adults.  They don't need to be protected by the fucking NCAA.  Those that make mistakes will just serve as a road map for future players.   

[Huckleberry 33159]

On 12/26/2018 at 1:40 PM, Doc Reeves said:

The reason that exact scenario hasn’t occurred yet it very telling of what the NCAA cares most about

No, the reason is that it's a stupid idea.

Do other students on scholarships (academic, etc.) have their transfer options limited by their department chairs? Or by their university's accrediting agency? Of course not. If you want to treat the football players like students then treat them like students. They can transfer wherever the hell they want whenever the hell they want.

[Tex Long 4488]

I'd like to see no-wait transfers opened up to all players whenever a coach leaves or is fired. Maybe a exception that players can't follow the coach... but that might be an interesting side-issue.

[ChickenSandwich 9856]

I would have no issue with players who continue on to a higher level degree be allowed to maintain eligibility and scholarship. Maybe 5-10 guys allowed per team. 

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13132]

3 hours ago, Tex Long said:

I'd like to see no-wait transfers opened up to all players whenever a coach leaves or is fired. Maybe a exception that players can't follow the coach... but that might be an interesting side-issue.

Teams would potentially be gutted with head coaching changes. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3448]

This sudden concern for player freedom and rights all started as a result of the O'Bannon case. When the obvious hypocrisy of running a professional business for everyone but the players became too much for many to stomach the NCAA countered with stuff like the cost of living increases and a relaxed set of transfer rules. Until the issue of player payment is dealt with definitively we're going to go back and forth on symptomatic issues like this. In my mind allowing players to trade on their names and likeness will squelch debate on what are clearly related issues (ie  player movement). Even though only a few players will be able to take advantage of endorsements, the prevailing sense of fairness will be enough to diffuse the momentum for player freedom if the NCAA were to then return to previous policies on player movement. 

[Tex Long 4488]

4 hours ago, Casual Encounter said:

Teams would potentially be gutted with head coaching changes. 

Fuck yeah they would. /strinetalkeneds.jpg

[Doc Reeves 6434]

On 4/24/2019 at 10:10 AM, Huckleberry said:

No, the reason is that it's a stupid idea.

Do other students on scholarships (academic, etc.) have their transfer options limited by their department chairs? Or by their university's accrediting agency? Of course not. If you want to treat the football players like students then treat them like students. They can transfer wherever the hell they want whenever the hell they want.

I absolutely agree with most of this post. The only issue I am having is that academic scholarships are not given with the express and specific purpose of direct competition with other schools which results in monumental short term profits for the institutions.

That distinction changes the nature of athletic transfers for money making sports. It is then financially imperative that the school have some control over situations that could cost them millions in short term revenue.  

There must be some sort of balance in power between a students agreed to contractual obligations and the dictatorial power of institutions and while the portal is a start is is by no means an answer. 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2019 by Doc Reeves

[Huckleberry 33159]

13 minutes ago, Doc Reeves said:

I absolutely agree with most of this post. The only issue I am having is that academic scholarships are not given with the express and specific purpose of direct competition with other schools

 

Yes they are.

13 minutes ago, Doc Reeves said:

which results in monumental short term profits for the institutions.

Oh there you go. You think the schools should control the players so that the schools can make more money that the players don't make any of. That's absurd and the entire problem. There would be zero issue with restricting transfers if the players were making fair market wages. How much of a salary do you think Trevor Lawrence could have negotiated during the recruiting process? Your entire theory rests on the employer making money and restricting the workers' movement without the workers ever having a chance to negotiate their cut of the pie.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Huckleberry

[Sgt Hulk 13928]

I’ll wager Lawerence could have negotiated a few years of food medical room and board and free college along with access to the best trainers and staff in the country.  At least at a starting point 

[Huckleberry 33159]

I’ll wager Lawerence could have negotiated a few years of food medical room and board and free college along with access to the best trainers and staff in the country.  At least at a starting point 

Not even you are dumb enough to think that's all he could have gotten.

Your only concern is your entertainment.

[Sgt Hulk 13928]

At least at a starting point.  Gloss over that. But thanks for the entertainment 

[ChickenSandwich 9856]

23 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Yes they are.

Oh there you go. You think the schools should control the players so that the schools can make more money that the players don't make any of. That's absurd and the entire problem. There would be zero issue with restricting transfers if the players were making fair market wages. How much of a salary do you think Trevor Lawrence could have negotiated during the recruiting process? Your entire theory rests on the employer making money and restricting the workers' movement without the workers ever having a chance to negotiate their cut of the pie.

The schools already compensate 94% of college football players. These are the players who will never be paid to play. The other 6% should be allowed to enter the draft immediately and or allowed to profit from their likeness.  You can debate the level of compensation, but they are compensated.  If the player can’t get paid after graduating high school for his services, the school should not be required to “give him a job/comparable pay”.  

The school making money off of students is nothing new, and not exclusive to athletes, grad students or research assistants. Without the college football infrastructure built up over a century, 94% of high school graduates would be left paying for college in something other than football. 

The names on the back change each year, the name on the front provides 95%of the value for 94% of the athletes. 

[ChickenSandwich 9856]

 

A wide receiver from Ohio State, Dixon received $50,000 total guaranteed. That includes a $10,000 signing bonus and a $40,000 base salary guarantee.

A defensive end from national champion Clemson, Huggins received a total of $40,000 guaranteed.

 

Dixon, who worked out privately for Texans receivers coach John Perry prior to the draft, caught 42 passes for 669 yards and eight touchdowns last season. Over the past two seasons, he caught 60 passes for 1,091 yards and 16 touchdowns.

 

 

1 yr at UT with all of the extras is worth more than this. 

[Magus Ossis 2880]

People decide to transfer for lots of reasons. They shouldn’t have to have the special permission of some out of state committee to avoid effectively losing their livelihood in the process. What fraction of employed adults are expected to give more than 3 months notice? The way to have fewer outbound transfers is primarily to be as good a place as you pretended during recruiting season. Of course it causes potential problems. Freedom is sometimes awkward for those who’ve been depending on its absence.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Magus Ossis

[Huckleberry 33159]

At least at a starting point.  Gloss over that. But thanks for the entertainment 

So your post was completely pointless. Thanks for the stupidity.

[Huckleberry 33159]

The schools already compensate 94% of college football players. These are the players who will never be paid to play. The other 6% should be allowed to enter the draft immediately and or allowed to profit from their likeness.  You can debate the level of compensation, but they are compensated.  If the player can’t get paid after graduating high school for his services, the school should not be required to “give him a job/comparable pay”.  
The school making money off of students is nothing new, and not exclusive to athletes, grad students or research assistants. Without the college football infrastructure built up over a century, 94% of high school graduates would be left paying for college in something other than football. 
The names on the back change each year, the name on the front provides 95%of the value for 94% of the athletes. 

 

A wide receiver from Ohio State, Dixon received $50,000 total guaranteed. That includes a $10,000 signing bonus and a $40,000 base salary guarantee.

A defensive end from national champion Clemson, Huggins received a total of $40,000 guaranteed.

 

Dixon, who worked out privately for Texans receivers coach John Perry prior to the draft, caught 42 passes for 669 yards and eight touchdowns last season. Over the past two seasons, he caught 60 passes for 1,091 yards and 16 touchdowns.

    1 yr at UT with all of the extras is worth more than this. 

That's a valid hypothesis. Let's run the experiment.

I don't believe that's all any players would make. Not even close. In fact a P5 team that only paid that much to anyone would be uncompetitive within 3 years. Alumni and fan demands to compete would require them to pay more to get better players. My hypothesis is that pretending that tuition, fees, room, and board is fair compensation is silly and I'd love for this experiment to happen and have Oklahoma only offer that to recruits.

As supporting evidence I offer the fact that we gave Charlie fucking Strong something like 25 million dollars.

[WBT 20703]

Players that aren't happy with college compensation should look at other options.  I know the NFL won't let them play until 3 years out of high school; maybe they could make a go of it in the AAF.

[Gene Parmesan 4016]

13 minutes ago, WBT said:

Players that aren't happy with college compensation should look at other options.  I know the NFL won't let them play until 3 years out of high school; maybe they could make a go of it in the AAF.

Bold prediction, the AAF is going to revolutionize the industry.

[Machinator 32099]

51 minutes ago, WBT said:

Players that aren't happy with college compensation should look at other options.  I know the NFL won't let them play until 3 years out of high school; maybe they could make a go of it in the AAF.

I'm thinking NFL Europe. Or perhaps the World Football League.

[Loco 3754]

nvrmnd

Edited April 30, 2019 by Loco
moved to more appropriate thread

[ChickenSandwich 9856]

5 hours ago, WBT said:

Players that aren't happy with college compensation should look at other options.  I know the NFL won't let them play until 3 years out of high school; maybe they could make a go of it in the AAF.

I think that is part of the XFL plan, recruit and pay high school players. Hell of a lot more interesting that practice squad and UDFA guys. 

[WhatTheBuck 28821]

On April 29, 2019 at 7:45 AM, Magus Ossis said:

People decide to transfer for lots of reasons. They shouldn’t have to have the special permission of some out of state committee to avoid effectively losing their livelihood in the process. What fraction of employed adults are expected to give more than 3 months notice? The way to have fewer outbound transfers is primarily to be as good a place as you pretended during recruiting season. Of course it causes potential problems. Freedom is sometimes awkward for those who’ve been depending on its absence.

Suppose you're a WR who had a breakout sophomore season at a mid-major in 2018. Should you be able to transfer to Michigan in January of 2019, attend classes and participate in spring practice, take a vacation in South Africa with the team in May, then transfer to another program in June and be eligible to play in the fall?

[Magus Ossis 2880]

The absurdity of taking college football players to South Africa does not change my opinion in the least. Why should a 20-year-old’s right to change his mind be negated due to Harbaugh’s antics?

[Huckleberry 33159]

Suppose you're a WR who had a breakout sophomore season at a mid-major in 2018. Should you be able to transfer to Michigan in January of 2019, attend classes and participate in spring practice, take a vacation in South Africa with the team in May, then transfer to another program in June and be eligible to play in the fall?

Should a worker who kicks major ass at a high profile project be allowed to leave for a better job when he gets an offer and then leave again for another offer later?

[WhatTheBuck 28821]

2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Suppose you're a WR who had a breakout sophomore season at a mid-major in 2018. Should you be able to transfer to Michigan in January of 2019, attend classes and participate in spring practice, take a vacation in South Africa with the team in May, then transfer to another program in June and be eligible to play in the fall?

Should a worker who kicks major ass at a high profile project be allowed to leave for a better job when he gets an offer and then leave again for another offer later?

I'll take that as a yes. 

[LTtxfan 49386]

Holgy using transfer portal at UH....

Holgorsen’s plan to win here starts local. He wants his staff to recruit mostly Houston, at times venturing down the I-10 corridor to New Orleans. His motto: Recruit the best players and build relationships that can extend for years, even after some of them choose other schools. Why? Because they might, one day, come home with eligibility left. “Once they tell us they’re going somewhere else, don’t get pissed off,” Holgorsen tells his assistants.

Holgorsen dabbles in the transfer game more than most. In his final five years at West Virginia, the coach used half of his initial scholarship spots on transfers. He’s already got some transfers on board here: cornerback Marcus Jones from Troy, running back Kyle Porter from Texas and, maybe, LSU defensive lineman Dominic Livingston. But his primary recruiting territory is within a 100-mile drive—the opposite of his strategy at West Virginia, where elite high school football talent is limited. Over a 10-cycle period from 2008 to ’17, the state of West Virginia produced 28 players who signed with Power 5 schools. Over that same period, the city of Houston churned out 211 Power 5 signees. It’s why Holgorsen’s flight budget at WVU was $250,000 and why his flight budget at Houston will be close to zero. He suggests it’s also why he couldn’t topple Oklahoma. At West Virginia, he could win the Big East with local products while sprinkling in some transfers and Texas guys. Then, the Mountaineers moved conferences. “We weren’t going to get high school kids at West Virginia that we were going to win the Big 12 with,” he says.

[Tex Long 4488]

Barbarian or not, Holgo gets it. 

[Hornius Emeritus 12495]

SIAP:

University of Florida freshman QB enrolled early, practiced with the team this spring, didn't win the starting job, and is using the portal to transfer out:

 

https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...fer-portal-after-enrolling-early-report-says/


I guess he was expecting to beat out Franks. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by Hornius Emeritus