Why we are where we are...

[UncleCharlie 334]

For my own sanity I unfollowed the President the United States on Twitter because he is a bat shit crazy narcissistic sociopath.  At this point whether or not he is impeached is almost irrelevant.  A Democratic led house will finally lead to some checks and balances.  

IMO, the fear mongering/brain washing from Fox News and Conservative Talk Radio being spewed on the public for the last 30 years is the sole reason.  Republicans and Democrats aren't that far apart.  We all want good education, healthcare and opportunity; just philosophical differences on the best way to achieve those goals.

The Right is now so far beyond NeoCon, ChristianCon that they are almost unrecognizable as a political party.  No one is coming to take your guns.  The borders aren't being overrun with migrants....and if it is, you're hiring them as day laborers to work your fields and do your construction work.  Hell municipalities and states are hiring contractors that have nothing but non resident aliens on their payroll to build and repair our roads.  I did some back of the napkin math on the original 33 billion that DJT asked for in 2017 for the wall and border security.  You could hire 6,600 more border guards and pay them each 50k a year for the next 100 years.  Then, all of the money spent would be taxed and recycled back into the system.

Not really sure why I'm typing this out other than hoping it will be cathartic and help cleanse my mind.

In the words of a wise WarZone poster from 2007.  "Fuck that puto." 

 

 

[suddenly shaggy 929]

Anyone that disagrees with you either watches/listens to right wing craziness full-time, or hasn't listened to it at all. It's 24/7 fear mongering and Team America circle jerks. Which is why brisket is right, this is terminal. No cancer patient ever got better while mainlining the product that gave them cancer into every orifice. 

Edited December 28, 2018 by suddenly shaggy

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[JohnnyRage 1617]

Baby Boomers and gerrymandering.

[Jiggy-Z 3432]

We are here because we, the voters, have for decades failed in our civic duty to stay engaged, to research, to vote, to participate in a meaningful way in our democracy.

In many ways we are almost fortunate that Trump was elected and has outed our failures as democratic participants.

Trump, just as much or more than Obama has revealed that we still have deep problems with racism.

Had someone just as nasty as Trump, but smarter, been elected (think Dick Cheney), the outrage and participation would have been just as it has been for decades. 

As it is, the Trump administration has stumble bummed its way into illuminating corruption, eroding of the EPA, regressive taxation, influence pedaling, money grabbing, and any number of dysfunctional behaviors that will hopefully jump start some form of heightened participation by we, the voters, to rid our democracy of self serving representatives and replace them with those that will truly work for us. 

[Biff Tannen 45667]

52 minutes ago, UncleCharlie said:

IMO, the fear mongering/brain washing from Fox News and Conservative Talk Radio being spewed on the public for the last 30 years is the sole reason. 

There are multiple reasons, but this is near the top.  Education in general, or lack thereof, is a big reason as well.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

30 minutes ago, Jiggy-Z said:

We are here because we, the voters, have for decades failed in our civic duty to stay engaged, to research, to vote, to participate in a meaningful way in our democracy.

In many ways we are almost fortunate that Trump was elected and has outed our failures as democratic participants.

IMO America made the most progress during the Cold War/Post WWII Era.  We had a common enemy to fear and fight against.  

Citizens took their responsibilities seriously and bought into propaganda like this:

 

Perhaps it was for the best. 

Edited December 28, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Brisketexan 105083]

15 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

There are multiple reasons, but this is near the top.  Education in general, or lack thereof, is a big reason as well.

Shit, my mother told me in the late 1970s that the key to politics was getting the "stupid vote," as stupid people are the single biggest voting bloc.  Guess the GOP was eavesdropping on my momma, because they said "shit, we can TOTALLY do that," and proceeded to do so.  With the belt-and-suspenders approach of ALSO making sure that the pool of stupid voters INCREASED.   Genius, I tell you.

[ndawg 1242]

10 minutes ago, Jiggy-Z said:

We are here because we, the voters, have for decades failed in our civic duty to stay engaged, to research, to vote, to participate in a meaningful way in our democracy. 

There have always been lots of ignorant and uninformed people that get suckered into all kinds of bullshit, and it's ludicrous to hold them to any standard of civic duty because it's beyond their means. I'll note that these Trumpkins actually believe that they are, in fact, informed and engaged.

What's different about today's America -- and why we're up shit's creek -- is that those ignorant and uninformed people all got suckered into the same bullshit coming from the same conman. Trump's their guy, who proudly broadcasts their group identity to the whole world.

We're always going to have ignorant and uninformed people. If the great experiment survives this, we can never let them become a unified voting block again.

[yaqdum 182]

24 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

There are multiple reasons, but this is near the top.  Education in general, or lack thereof, is a big reason as well.

lucy, don' forget the crutches  . . . err . . . churches.  same thing.

[Cacti 191]

52 minutes ago, Jiggy-Z said:

We are here because we, the voters, have for decades failed in our civic duty to stay engaged, to research, to vote, to participate in a meaningful way in our democracy.

 

24 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Shit, my mother told me in the late 1970s that the key to politics was getting the "stupid vote," as stupid people are the single biggest voting bloc. 

 

24 minutes ago, ndawg said:

There have always been lots of ignorant and uninformed people...We're always going to have ignorant and uninformed people. If the great experiment survives this, we can never let them become a unified voting block again.

You guys are making a strong case as to why voter suppression is needed.

[ndawg 1242]

30 minutes ago, Cacti said:

You guys are making a strong case as to why voter suppression is needed.

No, we're really not.

[Red Five 40847]

Rush and Fox News, mostly. 

[Brandywine 1316]

IMO, this contributed to where we are today as much as anything.

Rush Limbaugh’s radio show began in 1984 at Sacramento, California, radio station KFBK. Three years later, the Reagan administration repealed the Fairness Doctrine, which had required TV and radio stations to provide equal time for opposing political views, opening the door to the Limbaugh-led rise of conservative talk radio.

Read more at https://www.wnd.com/2017/08/rush-limbaugh-celebrates-radio-shows-30th-year/#lqPbJ860ObHvDpU9.99

[Nolacycling 893]

I never thought America would elect a black man. I also thought America would have no problem voting for a woman. Wrong on both counts.

Where would be if Hilary had served Obama's term and Obama had run against Trump?

[DixonHur 11296]

I'm here for the donuts

[JimmyJames 12271]

Y’all do realize that all this is cyclical and probably inevitable right?

1775. 1861. 1941. Start of revolutionary war, US civil war, American entry into WW2. All about 80 years apart. 

1929. 2008. Largest US market crashes. 80 years apart.

The institutions that were strengthened post WW2 have both steadily been attacked and have destroyed themselves. The church, Congress, Boy Scouts, countless other civic institutions. A lot of it self inflicted. 

Were in the middle of a crisis but it’s not the first and hopefully and likely won’t be the last. I actually have faith in the youngs. They’re not as cynical as my generation and not as narcissistic as the boomers. Hope I’m right. 

 

[Bookman 4638]

Lots of old people are really scared about all the changes they've seen. All the damn foreigners, gays out of the closet, people leaving the Church, globalization, etc. They're so scared they voted for a corrupt, immoral, incompetent failed businessman.

This will eventually pass. Think of it as one more "fuck you" from the Baby Boomers.

[Brisketexan 105083]

Lots of old people are really scared about all the changes they've seen. All the damn foreigners, gays out of the closet, people leaving the Church, globalization, etc. They're so scared they voted for a corrupt, immoral, incompetent failed businessman.
This will eventually pass. Think of it as one more "fuck you" from the Baby Boomers.

Repped the last two posts. Spot on.
The next generation gives me hope. The boomers indeed have issued a giant fuck you on the way out.
My brisket-y take on that is that it’s a pretty fucking potent fuck you, and I’m not sure what will be left to work with.

[JimmyJames 12271]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Repped the last two posts. Spot on.
The next generation gives me hope. The boomers indeed have issued a giant fuck you on the way out.
My brisket-y take on that is that it’s a pretty fucking potent fuck you, and I’m not sure what will be left to work with.

The boomers were better during the last midterms. Maybe they’ve got in them one last face saving hurrah. After all, mueller and people like him are boomers too. They’ve always had plenty of good. Just have unfortunately gotten drowned out by the crap. 

[Larry T. Spider 1746]

11 minutes ago, Bookman said:

Lots of old people are really scared about all the changes they've seen. All the damn foreigners, gays out of the closet, people leaving the Church, globalization, etc. They're so scared they voted for a corrupt, immoral, incompetent failed businessman.

This will eventually pass. Think of it as one more "fuck you" from the Baby Boomers.

Based on my in-laws family Christmas party, this is spot on. They are still living in a different reality and can’t understand why I’m not up in arms about the trans child molesters that they heard about on the (Fox) news. They are terrified of the world now with cultural changes and technology that they don’t understand. They can’t fathom that any of it might be good.

Another quick example is uber. It’s fast, cheap, safe, reduces drunk driving, helps disabled people get around, and provides part time work to a lot of people that want/need it. They thinks it’s level 10 dangerous and should be banned.

[Thetexashammer 1062]

 

[JimmyJames 12271]

44 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

 

Well that was a waste of time if I had decided to watch any of it. 

Maybe you should just pull a gif out of your box of tricks and save us all some time. 

[WhatTheBuck 28775]

3 hours ago, Bookman said:

Lots of old people are really scared about all the changes they've seen. All the damn foreigners, gays out of the closet, people leaving the Church, globalization, etc. They're so scared they voted for a corrupt, immoral, incompetent failed businessman.

This will eventually pass. Think of it as one more "fuck you" from the Baby Boomers.

Don't be so sure. Lots of old people have children who they've raised to be every bit as ignorant and afraid as they are. 

[Bookman 4638]

2 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Don't be so sure. Lots of old people have children who they've raised to be every bit as ignorant and afraid as they are. 

That's true but man these demographics don't look good for Republicans:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/11/08/the-2018-midterm-vote-divisions-by-race-gender-education/

Which is a shame. America needs the Republican party to be strong, but in 20 years it might not even be a party any more.

But then again, you give your party to an incompetent failed businessman, then you get what you deserve.

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

White men who do not have a college degree voted Republican by about two-to-one (66% to 32%). Lmao. Voting against their own interests. 

[GSU&UT 1798]

17 hours ago, Brandywine said:

IMO, this contributed to where we are today as much as anything.

Rush Limbaugh’s radio show began in 1984 at Sacramento, California, radio station KFBK. Three years later, the Reagan administration repealed the Fairness Doctrine, which had required TV and radio stations to provide equal time for opposing political views, opening the door to the Limbaugh-led rise of conservative talk radio.

Read more at https://www.wnd.com/2017/08/rush-limbaugh-celebrates-radio-shows-30th-year/#lqPbJ860ObHvDpU9.99

In my mind this and the rise of Fox News is almost entirely responsible for Trump. How many of our parents and relatives get their only political news from FNC? The GOP solely relies on mostly white uneducated voters, they have thank brainwashing down to a science.

Edited December 29, 2018 by GSU&UT
Fucking phone

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 minute ago, GSU&UT said:

In my mind this and the rise of Fox News is almost entirely responsible for Trump. How many of our parents and relatives get their only politician news from FNC? The GOP solely replies on mostly white uneducated voters, they have thank brainwashing down to a science.

Specifically for Trump, an enormous overlooked influential factor was the rise of “reality” television which spent 10+ years selling Donald Trump as a business god in prime time. 

That was an amazing deception propagated on the American people. 

[retread 2951]

From Limbaugh's site

Quote

As you know, for the last 30, 25 years, whatever, we’ve been floating between 20, 22 million people depending on when you take audience ratings. It’s a weekly cume number. Radio does ratings different than TV. We talk about average quarter hour, and that’s how many are listening in any 15-minute sweep during an hour. Then there’s the weekly cume and the monthly cume. That’s the grand total of everybody listening, the cume is. And there is the daily cume. The daily cume number here is up. It’s always been around 10 to 12 million, and that’s up too.

The upshot is that after the election, the audience of this program continued to grow. Subscribers at Rush 24/7 continue to grow. Subscribers at the Limbaugh Letter continue to grow. This is not usual. Now, hang on. I’m not bragging here. I’m setting this up to get to the email I got. And the numbers are just pouring in now for March, but prior to those numbers the weekly cume had been up now to 26 million and climbing.

https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2017/04/27/eib-audience-numbers-shoot-through-the-roof-26-million-and-growing/

Edited December 29, 2018 by retread

[GSU&UT 1798]

16 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Specifically for Trump, an enormous overlooked influential factor was the rise of “reality” television which spent 10+ years selling Donald Trump as a business god in prime time. 

That was an amazing deception propagated on the American people. 

I'm sure you've seen this, and it's probably already been posted elsewhere, but it deserves to be shared again,

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/01/07/how-mark-burnett-resurrected-donald-trump-as-an-icon-of-american-success/

Edited December 29, 2018 by GSU&UT

[safe sex 11703]

I read that article at work the other night and got physically ill.

[Fudge Nuggets 19189]

17 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

I'm sure you've seen this, and it's probably already been posted elsewhere, but I'm deserves to be shared again,

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/01/07/how-mark-burnett-resurrected-donald-trump-as-an-icon-of-american-success/

That guy needs to be strung up and shot.

[Thetexashammer 1062]

9 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

Well that was a waste of time if I had decided to watch any of it. 

Maybe you should just pull a gif out of your box of tricks and save us all some time. 

We "got here" because a group of leaders decided that rather than engaging in public service, they were simply better humans than the rest of us and so they could ignore the dirty, smelly voters in favor of elitist, globalist, socialist nonsense. It's not complicated. They spit on voters and got punished. 

These people can either decide to start serving their constituencies, or not. It's up to them. I've said it before, if liberals don't understand the lessons of Trump, then we will get something worse than Trump. 

[GSU&UT 1798]

Liberal politicans spit on voters, so those people decided to vote on a con man who cheated on multiple wives and could not care less about anyone else but himself.

Yeah, it's all those God damned socialists who care about social welfare and nationalized health. How dare they!

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Yes, it’s the democrats that are fucking over the poor.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

My dad has listened to Limbaugh for as long as I can remember. I remember listening to him drone on and wondering at a young age “why is he so angry?” What I have come to realize is that at the heart of their anger is self-loathing. They hate themselves and the easiest thing to do when you can’t stand being in your own skin is to look outward to find an identifiable group of people to project your hate upon. 

Swam is the perfect example. His adult life has been one failure after another. Instead of introspection (what role have my actions played in my life’s path?), the easier path is to find outward objects of your hate...the “true” reasons for everything bad that has happened to you.

Rush Limbaugh is a hateful loner. He has tapped into that resentment and monetized it extremely well. He’ll die as he lived, alone and miserable. 

[Thetexashammer 1062]

15 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Yes, it’s the democrats that are fucking over the poor.

Cesar Chavez was an advocate for the poor. He took workers to the Mexican border to protest illegal immigration because he knew it hurt the poor. Nancy Pelosi is doing her "caring" from a resort in Hawaii right now, during the shutdown.

Anyone who thinks politicians "care" is a gullible rube. 

Anyway, I could go down a long list of policies which are harmful to the poor but that's not what we do here. So - ORANGE MAN BAD!!!!!! Feel better?

 

Edited December 29, 2018 by Thetexashammer

[GRHorn 105]

13 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

Y’all do realize that all this is cyclical and probably inevitable right?

1775. 1861. 1941. Start of revolutionary war, US civil war, American entry into WW2. All about 80 years apart. 

1929. 2008. Largest US market crashes. 80 years apart.

The institutions that were strengthened post WW2 have both steadily been attacked and have destroyed themselves. The church, Congress, Boy Scouts, countless other civic institutions. A lot of it self inflicted. 

Were in the middle of a crisis but it’s not the first and hopefully and likely won’t be the last. I actually have faith in the youngs. They’re not as cynical as my generation and not as narcissistic as the boomers. Hope I’m right. 

 

Yes a big part of it is just cyclical. Fourth Turning and so forth. 

22 hours ago, UncleCharlie said:

 

The Right is now so far beyond NeoCon, ChristianCon that they are almost unrecognizable as a political party.  No one is coming to take your guns.

 

You make some good points, but this one is flatly wrong. If the Left isn’t interested in taking guns, then why have leaders like Obama pointed to Australian policies as good ideas?  Puhleez. 

 

All the points on media polarization are valid, but honestly this all goes back to the birth of the Internet. Before widely disseminated information (and misinformation), all people could do was digest and trust mainstream media.  

Now 20 years later mainstream media’s credibility is in shambles with a large portion of the population. People have sought out other sources of information.  The population is much harder for establishment to control now. It makes things much more volatile. 

[David Dennison 18851]

The left isn't interested in taking guns.

The left is interested in regulating the shit out of guns.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

It is REMARKABLE how often Chavez comes up on the alt right forums.  I look up Hugo on tigerdroppings and it’s nothing but Chavez posts, mostly recent.  

[GRHorn 105]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It is REMARKABLE how often Chavez comes up on the alt right forums.  I look up Hugo on tigerdroppings and it’s nothing but Chavez posts, mostly recent.  

Must be Russian bots. 

[yaqdum 182]

26 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

the heart of their anger is self-loathing. They hate themselves and the easiest thing to do when you can’t stand being in your own skin is to look outward to find an identifiable group of people to project your hate upon.

distilled reality nectar.

[David Dennison 18851]

17 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

Cesar Chavez was an advocate for the poor. He took workers to the Mexican border to protest illegal immigration because he knew it hurt the poor. Nancy Pelosi is doing her "caring" from a resort in Hawaii right now, during the shutdown.

Anyone who thinks politicians "care" is a gullible rube. 

Anyway, I could go down a long list of policies which are harmful to the poor but that's not what we do here. So - ORANGE MAN BAD!!!!!! Feel better?

What are Republican policies that are helpful to the poor?

[GSU&UT 1798]

Hahahah, someone is on vacation in the opposition party because the president is acting like a toddler and shut down the government while HIS OWN FUCKING PARTY control all three branches until the new year. You know what, that makes me want to vote for a grifter even more! Even if it means fucking over my own livelihood as long as it makes some libs mad.

[horn4life 3759]

I would say that we are where we are for two primary reasons.  GOP Tax policies that have created a larger and larger gap between have's and have not's.  And the embrace of the GOP and their preferred "news" sources in embracing non-factual information, as factual.

There are other contributing factors, but when you start discarding factual information, that's the beginnng of the end.  Because how can you argue, or compromise with somebody who simply refuses for purely political reasons to believe in facts anymore?  The facts are what they are. Insisting that facts are not facts and that Alternative facts are equally as valid as the actual facts is honestly the only way the right wing media can survive.  It's not going to be on the actual facts.

Edited December 29, 2018 by horn4life

[GRHorn 105]

8 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The left isn't interested in taking guns.

The left is interested in regulating the shit out of guns.

Bullshit.

Quote from then President Obama,

“Couple of decades ago, Australia had a mass shooting, similar to Columbine or Newtown. And Australia just said, well, that’s it, we’re not doing, we’re not seeing that again, and basically imposed very severe, tough gun laws, and they haven’t had a mass shooting since.

Our levels of gun violence are off the charts. There’s no advanced, developed country that would put up with this.”

In addition, one of Hillary’s key positions was her opposition to the Heller decision that affirmed the individual’s right to bear arms. She was looking to place Supreme Court judges that disagreed with that decision. 

Tell me again how they just want to regulate it. 

[David Dennison 18851]

Just now, horn4life said:

I would say that we are where we are for two primary reasons.  GOP Tax policies that have greated a larger and large gap between have's and have not's.  And the embrace of the GOP and their preferred "news" sources in embracing non-factual information as factual.

There are other contributing factors, but when you start discarding factual information, that's the beginnng of the end.  Because how can you argue, or compromise with somebody who simply refuses for purely political reasons to believe in facts anymore?  The facts are what they are. Insisting that facts are not facts and that Alternative facts are equally as valid as the actual facts is honestly the only way the right wing media can survive.  It's not going to be on the actual facts.

Conservatives believe that redistribution of wealth should only happen in one direction. They achieve this with tax policy. It's brazen.

[David Dennison 18851]

Just now, GRHorn said:

Bullshit.

Quote from then President Obama,

“Couple of decades ago, Australia had a mass shooting, similar to Columbine or Newtown. And Australia just said, well, that’s it, we’re not doing, we’re not seeing that again, and basically imposed very severe, tough gun laws, and they haven’t had a mass shooting since.

Our levels of gun violence are off the charts. There’s no advanced, developed country that would put up with this.”

In addition, one of Hillary’s key positions was her opposition to the Heller decision that affirmed the individual’s right to bear arms. She was looking to place Supreme Court judges that disagreed with that decision. 

Tell me again how they just want to regulate it. 

The left wants to regulate firearms. That quote is a factual statement of what happened in Australia when faced with a mass shooting. 

Show me a quote from either Clinton or Obama that calls for confiscating American firearms.

[Thetexashammer 1062]

17 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It is REMARKABLE how often Chavez comes up on the alt right forums.  I look up Hugo on tigerdroppings and it’s nothing but Chavez posts, mostly recent.  

Your suggestion that this idea isn't generalizable is laughable.

 

Here's Hillary: https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2015/05/07/hillary-2003-i-am-you-know-adamantly-against-illegal-immigrants-n1995826 

And Obama: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/barack-obama-2005-immigration-quote/

 

[David Dennison 18851]

1 minute ago, Thetexashammer said:

Your suggestion that this idea isn't generalizable is laughable.

 

Here's Hillary: https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2015/05/07/hillary-2003-i-am-you-know-adamantly-against-illegal-immigrants-n1995826 

And Obama: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/barack-obama-2005-immigration-quote/

 

Well, yeah. Democrats favor border security and oppose illegal immigration. That's what they've been saying all along.

Donald Trump is never getting his wall. The sooner he figures that out, the better.