Donald Trump 2019

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

[UncleCharlie 334]

Very legal, very cool.

[Atx71 146]

6 hours ago, SameSame said:

He's lying 

If his fingers are tapping....he is lying. 

[Bookman 4640]

9 hours ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

This shit actually had me legit laughing, so I guess I'm not quite at Brisket's ledge.... 

Tape over their mouths so they can't scream? Has anyone seen Brett Kavanaugh lately?

[shnsajax 3591]

Tape over their mouths so they can't scream? Has anyone seen Brett Kavanaugh lately?

We still got like 7 weeks till Beach Week.

[Tuco 5077]

This should be quoted more often.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

The fact that they all kept it secret for over a year when I’m 99.9% certain the FBI was asking them at the time if they’ve been approached by people representing the Russian government. 

Edited February 1, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Chad Fuck 17753]

Just wait until later this year or early next when the astroturfers and bots are in high-gear for the 2020 primaries and general.  

To think that a little ol board of longhorn miscreants (and a subset of those miscreants at that) drew attention at all was mind blowing. But those trolls sure enough popped up just in time for the election then vanished come Nov 8. I wouldn’t have believed it if I hadn’t seen it myself.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

9 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

To think that a little ol board of longhorn miscreants (and a subset of those miscreants at that) drew attention at all was mind blowing. But those trolls sure enough popped up just in time for the election then vanished come Nov 8. I wouldn’t have believed it if I hadn’t seen it myself.

 

Amazing isn’t it.  And you just witnessed a very tiny tiny slice of the attack.  Other forums got hit much harder and the consequences are still visible.

[4th&Five 41586]

Edited February 1, 2019 by 4th&Five

[atomheartbevo 89785]

6 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

[Mo Horn 8854]

20 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

Wait, in an earlier tweet I thought he said they were totally defeated and totally wiped out. 

[Chuckie Finster 22727]

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[The People’s Elbow 707]

Cow can’t kick the bucket fast enough. 

[Chad Fuck 17753]

25 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

 

I have mixed feelings about this.  My initial superficial take is that anything Dotard does is probably bad, and therefore, this is bad.

However, it seems to me that Russia is not holding up its' end of the deal.  I'd like to think there's a way not to discard the agreement and try and work Russia back into it, other than completely tossing it aside.  But at this point, I'm not sure what that would look like.  Certainly this feels like a back-slide into Cold War postures, but that's kind of where Putin has been heading for a while and we can't be expected to play the fool.  

So which is it?  New cold war arms race, or continue failed diplomacy with a guy who's clearly uninterested?

Genuinely interested to hear what Surly cabal has to say.

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Russia isn’t holding up its end of the bargain but the fact they weren’t was giving us some nominal leverage in negotiations.

“Hey Russia, we’re not coming to the table until you abide by this treaty like you agreed to.”

We are giving that leverage away for absolutely nothing. 

[kevwun 15866]

The fucking media falls for Team Trump leaking info that will end up being damaging every time in order to shape the story.  The calls weren't to the Dotard, but they are still going to end up being bad news.  When will reporters learn that if they are giving you info, it's not in good faith?

Edited February 1, 2019 by kevwun

[Chad Fuck 17753]

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Russia isn’t holding up its end of the bargain but the fact they weren’t was giving us some nominal leverage in negotiations.

“Hey Russia, we’re not coming to the table until you abide by this treaty like you agreed to.”

We are giving that leverage away for absolutely nothing. 

Hadn't considered this angle.  Makes sense.

[High Plains Drifter 11051]

I hate cows.

[Homercles 10206]

I hate cows.

[RomaVicta 30002]

1 hour ago, Mo Horn said:

Wait, in an earlier tweet I thought he said they were totally defeated and totally wiped out. 

Even in this newer tweet he says that they will be 100% destroyed, but we will still keep and eye on them. An eye on what?

[RomaVicta 30002]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Russia isn’t holding up its end of the bargain but the fact they weren’t was giving us some nominal leverage in negotiations.

“Hey Russia, we’re not coming to the table until you abide by this treaty like you agreed to.”

We are giving that leverage away for absolutely nothing. 

How has this leverage done anything benefiting the US? 

If Russia is not complying to an agreement about short range nukes, don't they have the leverage of a force of short range nukes?

The intermediate (cruise) missile debate back in the day, as I recall, was that the missiles moved deterrence from US soil to European soil. Europe didn't like this because it isolated them as a nuclear target. The Soviets and Americans have a nuclear exchange limited to Europe which would diminish the overall MAD deterrent to using nukes at all.

I don't know what today's issues are, but I don't really see the leverage angle. I'd appreciate an explanation.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

12 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

How has this leverage done anything benefiting the US? 

If Russia is not complying to an agreement about short range nukes, don't they have the leverage of a force of short range nukes?

The intermediate (cruise) missile debate back in the day, as I recall, was that the missiles moved deterrence from US soil to European soil. Europe didn't like this because it isolated them as a nuclear target. The Soviets and Americans have a nuclear exchange limited to Europe which would diminish the overall MAD deterrent to using nukes at all.

I don't know what today's issues are, but I don't really see the leverage angle. I'd appreciate an explanation.

It's a minor pressure point politically and I stress the word minor.  We could raise hell over it in the UN. We could use it as an example of why other countries shouldn't trust the Kremlin.  It's something we can make a stink about that hurts the Russians ability to form their own alliances.  It's not necessarily about the nukes but more of a political warfare tool we are surrendering. 

In the Cold War geopolitical zero sum game, hurting Russia is a benefit to the United States by itself.

This is the way Putin views the United States. It's why they are attacking us with seemingly little gain for themselves.  The crippling of the United States and the Western alliances brings a level playing field closer to Russia.  The US pulling out of a treaty simply because Russia isn't complying is like saying. "okay we'll let you cheat without any consequences."  It's a bad message. 

 

 

[RomaVicta 30002]

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It's a minor pressure point politically and I stress the word minor.  We could raise hell over it in the UN. We could use it as an example of why other countries shouldn't trust the Kremlin.  It's something we can make a stink about that hurts the Russians ability to form their own alliances.  It's not necessarily about the nukes but more of a political warfare tool we are surrendering. 

In the Cold War geopolitical zero sum game, hurting Russia is a benefit to the United States by itself.

This is the way Putin views the United States. It's why they are attacking us with seemingly little gain for themselves.  The crippling of the United States and the Western alliances brings a level playing field closer to Russia.  The US pulling out of a treaty simply because Russia isn't complying is like saying. "okay we'll let you cheat without any consequences."  It's a bad message. 

 

 

The consequences are that we will develop similar and probably better weapons. The further consequences are that Russia gets the blame for ruining the agreement. Your first paragraph, respectfully, is a collection of Cold War boilerplate that is too simplistic.

Russia faces the problem that the US did when we rolled out cruise missiles with nukes. You create a lightning fast use-them-or-lose-them environment where these missiles are mere minutes away from each other. We used them to threaten Russia while putting Europe at greater risk.

Now Russia threatens with these missiles possibly to bully Europe. An ability to reply to this threat from European soil would seem to be a deterrent to this new military leverage.

I'd rather both sides comply. I'm not sure pulling out of the treaty is the best approach, but it may not be a bad option if you have a long term strategy. Sadly, long term strategy is not something to count on from this administration. It's probably just Bolton doing his usual macho idiocy.

Macho idiocy is not useful in making the split second decision about launching nukes from Europe in the face of a perceived threat. 

We are likely pulling out of the treaty for the wrong reasons, but that doesn't mean that there can't be good reasons and strategy for doing so.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

3 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

The consequences are that we will develop similar and probably better weapons. The further consequences are that Russia gets the blame for ruining the agreement. Your first paragraph, respectfully, is a collection of Cold War boilerplate that is too simplistic.

Russia faces the problem that the US did when we rolled out cruise missiles with nukes. You create a lightning fast use-them-or-lose-them environment where these missiles are mere minutes away from each other. We used them to threaten Russia while putting Europe at greater risk.

Now Russia threatens with these missiles possibly to bully Europe. An ability to reply to this threat from European soil would seem to be a deterrent to this new military leverage.

I'd rather both sides comply. I'm not sure pulling out of the treaty is the best approach, but it may not be a bad option if you have a long term strategy. Sadly, long term strategy is not something to count on from this administration. It's probably just Bolton doing his usual macho idiocy.

Macho idiocy is not useful in making the split second decision about launching nukes from Europe in the face of a perceived threat. 

We are likely pulling out of the treaty for the wrong reasons, but that doesn't mean that there can't be good reasons and strategy for doing so.

Pulling out would be fine if we are replacing it with a new agreement but there are no indications that is going to happen. 

[F250 28817]

On 1/31/2019 at 12:56 AM, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

65% turnover in the first two years. Trump sets yet another record:

https://www.brookings.edu/research/tracking-turnover-in-the-trump-administration/?fbclid=IwAR0VovFzGeFbTtM2F1z3aQe2TUCwsp1rJfsA5ni5dTuj2yEbpJi4r6RMRwA

Fastfood restaurants have lower turnover rates than the Trump administration. Sad!

[Player 4576]

I hate cows.

You just made the list.

[yaqdum 182]

2 hours ago, The People’s Elbow said:

Cow can’t kick the bucket fast enough. 

i'm o'leary of that.

[High Plains Drifter 11051]

13 minutes ago, Player said:

 

You just made the list.

 

OK, with one exception.

[Biff Tannen 45718]

I find it unlikely that we were fully compliant with that treaty either.  I still think it was a dumb idea to remove it and not replace it with anything.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

This puts it better.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Message Board User 12396]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

So does that mean the government was seen as more corrupt in 2012?

[Biff Tannen 45718]

Draining the swamp

[Fudge Nuggets 19218]

20 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

OK, with one exception.

Two exceptions 

[Jiggy-Z 3435]

9 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

So does that mean the government was seen as more corrupt in 2012?

Yeah, But the survey only went back 5 years.  I'll see myself out.

[bolverk 29717]

23 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This puts it better.

I agree with this take. The way I see it is that we lose "moral authority" in the view of the UN/globe (or leverage from a more pragmatic negotiations standpoint). Moreover, as I recall, the Euros were really pissed at the US (and Reagan in particular) when we put Pershing missiles on German soil in the early 80s, which put them further in the bullseye of a potential Soviet attack.

Today, from a European perspective, I can see nationalist Hans the Plumber falling back into that stance by thinking something along the lines of:

"Ze Amerikans criticize us for not giving enough money to NATO when we are in Zeit of Peace. Ze Cold War is over. Now, zey cancel treaty mit Putin and put us in ze crosshairs of Russland again because we align mit Amerika when zey are no longer our friends. We should quit NATO und focus on Making Deutschland Great Again. Russland is no threat to us. Muslim Ausländer are our bigger problem."

I'm not sure the above is true but I can see the typical semi-informed German (or any other European for that matter) thinking their relationship with the US/NATO has become too much of a burden which would begin to stoke a more isolationist/nationalist stance. Of course, I could be reading too much into that but right now I'm looking at everything Trump does with a very skeptical eye because all he has done in Europe has resulted in weakening the Western Alliance at the behest of the Kremlin. This likely is no different.

Edited February 1, 2019 by bolverk
missing words

[Celery Man 20996]

3D chess vs chutes and ladders

[RomaVicta 30002]

12 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

Interesting that the Russia news and Wall debate crowd the story of the Hardingesque graft and corruption of this administration to page two. Morons who can't answer basic questions about their government portfolio stay in lobbyists apartments, make deals that benefit themselves directly or indirectly through bribes, and invent their own government perquisites. 

Even the Russia story is largely a money grab for selling out a country and government system you don't bother to even understand.

My wish would be for a Reform Movement to emerge to rewrite election laws and make money movement transparent. In today's environment, the horrific news that Congress has institutionalized a fund to pay off/head off embarrassing lawsuits before they hit the light of day is another story that would have been all over the front pages. 

Russia wins if we believe it's out of control and unchangeable. Even worse, we lose the remaining shreds of what was once a pretty good ideal for a country.

I need to read H.L. Mencken. I only know some of the quotes. His cynicism seemed amusing but a downer. Now I need him as a point of reference.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Draaaaaaaag him.

[CowboyFred 1151]

3 hours ago, High Plains Drifter said:

I hate cows.

[sachick 1189]

Trump: “ Wall, wall wall wall wall”

[Chooky 13317]

Literally nothing negative has happened to Russia and Vladimir Putin since Trump took office.  It's been all upside.  Putin's strategy is also hilariously basic.  Isolate allied powers while Russia expands.  And it's happening right in front of our faces.  Trump demonizes our strongest supporters around the globe, dismantles collective power against Russia and verbally attacks every one of our top intelligence agencies.  He does all of this in the favor of a murderous thug.  And he does all of it right in front of our dumbass faces.  Fuck us.

[Burt 4092]

Trump on CNN right now:  "We're building a lot of Wall. Wall is being built as we speak with cash we have on hand and it has been redesigned and is very attractive."

So if "Wall" is already being built, why a 35 day shutdown, with another pending in two weeks?

[bolverk 29717]

6 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I agree with this take. The way I see it is that we lose "moral authority" in the view of the UN/globe (or leverage from a more pragmatic negotiations standpoint). Moreover, as I recall, the Euros were really pissed at the US (and Reagan in particular) when we put Pershing missiles on German soil in the early 80s, which put them further in the bullseye of a potential Soviet attack.

Today, from a European perspective, I can see nationalist Hans the Plumber falling back into that stance by thinking something along the lines of:

"Ze Amerikans criticize us for not giving enough money to NATO when we are in Zeit of Peace. Ze Cold War is over. Now, zey cancel treaty mit Putin and put us in ze crosshairs of Russland again because we align mit Amerika when zey are no longer our friends. We should quit NATO und focus on Making Deutschland Great Again. Russland is no threat to us. Muslim Ausländer are our bigger problem."

I'm not sure the above is true but I can see the typical semi-informed German (or any other European for that matter) thinking their relationship with the US/NATO has become too much of a burden which would begin to stoke a more isolationist/nationalist stance. Of course, I could be reading too much into that but right now I'm looking at everything Trump does with a very skeptical eye because all he has done in Europe has resulted in weakening the Western Alliance at the behest of the Kremlin. This likely is no different.

I want to further clarify my thoughts on this (sorry for self-quoting):

In the past, when we took a "tough" stance on Soviet aggression by putting nukes in the European theater, there was a shitload of blowback on us and NATO - especially West Germany. There were daily anti-nuke demonstrations and pro-peace rallies where the blame was placed squarely on the US and Reagan in particular. But, I don't think they ever really wanted to leave NATO.

I could see Putin harkening back to that moment and recalling his years stationed in East Germany, seeing the discord that the move caused across the border, and thinking that by coaxing us into doing the same thing that we did in the past would result in the same reaction by Europeans in the present. This time, however, the American president is the one who has been publicly shitting all over our Europeans partners when a US president would never have done that in the past. As a result, I could see the blowback among Europeans being even more severe than in the past and thinking that their relationship with us in bringing them nothing but stress.

Again, I don't know but I could see it possibly going in that direction.

[4th&Five 41586]

He’s on tv talking about all the towns that have already been saved by the wall. They were “hell holes” before. No examples given. 

[RomaVicta 30002]

My memory is that Pelosi communicated in the stilted, cumbersome language of institutional tradition prior to this past year. The few tweets and letters of hers that I read were soporific just like most official communications.

Now she is clear, honest, and a good communicator. I dreaded having her be the spokesperson for the Dems over the years, but now I am delighted to have her as the adept voice of opposition. I wonder if the new wave of representatives in this new environment have caused this.

I don't mean to be sexist, but I am pleased that many of the best voices against the disaster of our government right now are women.  Maybe it's the different sound of their voices and manner of expression that makes it feel possible that things will change.

[Native Horn 3512]

1 minute ago, 4th&Five said:

He’s on tv talking about all the towns that have already been saved by the wall. They were “hell holes” before. No examples given. 

The San Antonio River Walk is much safer, ya libtard!

[4th&Five 41586]

We’ve caught tremendous amounts of criminals in the caravan before they get here. 

Should be easy to prove.