Donald Trump 2019

[Lagunamadre 1975]

2 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

cut taxes, appointed great judges, great economy, reformed obamacare

I'll give you tax cuts and judges. (Although the tax cuts were not paid for and went disproportionately to the rich and company stock buy backs.)  Economy is great, has been for many years now. Tax cuts poured a little one time rocket fuel, as trillion dollar corporate give aways tend to do. 

What exactly has he done to reform Obamacare besides strike down the individual mandate? 

[Longhornfan1024 1707]

7 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

cut taxes, appointed great judges, great economy, reformed obamacare

When people say you're stupid it's because of things like saying you're upset about the deficit but happy with tax cuts.  

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

Still laughing at tj not knowing what "take your ball and go home" means.

[JimmyJames 12271]

2 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Still laughing at tj not knowing what "take your ball and go home" means.

Why you laugh? Is not funny. I have no ball. 

[Lagunamadre 1975]

Were you getting hit by the penalty because you chose not to insure yourself? 

[Lagunamadre 1975]

Just now, tjhooker said:

No, because it should cause the ACA to implode due that requirement not being in it.

Do you know what the ACA imploding would mean to millions of americans? Do you know what the ACA imploding would do to voter turnout? (See 2018 midterms for a preview). 

I'm not sure you understand what you are talking about on the subject matter, if you do, then you are cold-blooded and heartless. For your sake, I hope it's the former as you can always educate yourself. 

[BrickHorn 18234]

7 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

No, because it should cause the ACA to implode due that requirement not being in it.  Furthermore, I dont like people being required to buy something as simply due to them being alive in the US and an adult.

Which is why I shouldn’t have to pay taxes to fund the military and other bullshit I don’t need, right?

[RomaVicta 29907]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

Speaking of Christians:

 

I like the guy to her right giving her the hook at the end.

In Jesus' name, I stand and lie my ass off and apologize for the people I hate who have brought down your wrath upon all of his. We all be better off when they are safely in Hell. Amen

 

[Jive Turkey 12598]

Trump is getting some push-back.

 

[SimonBolivar 10958]

Pardon my lack of political science knowledge, but what exactly is the process for the administration to push for a court ordered end to the ACA? I'm guessing they contact a friendly judge and have them take up the case in the hopes that it eventually rises to the SCOTUS?

[Lagunamadre 1975]

Just now, tjhooker said:

I probably know more about the ACA than 99% of the US.  I used to business consult medical practices and a huge portion of what I was having to advise on was how to deal with implications of the employer mandate in the ACA.  I have been to conferences on the ACA.  I know a shit ton about the ACA.  So funny, you think you know but you don't.

So with your extensive knowledge. How would you see the "implosion" of the ACA working out for people? This might be a good time for you to give us an overview on the Republican's replacement plan. Do you know the highlights? They've had plenty of time to work on it. 

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

1 hour ago, Bruh Man said:

Why would you do that? The deplorables love the ACA, it's Obamacare they hate.

As a physician, I can confirm this.  Again, if I had a dollar for every time some clown was bitching about obamacare, but was only getting an appointment/care because of obamacare, I'd have 3fiddy. 

[TexEx15 17528]

35 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

No, because it should cause the ACA to implode due that requirement not being in it.  Furthermore, I dont like people being required to buy something as simply due to them being alive in the US and an adult.

So to hell with auto liability insurance then too?  And if you say no because it protects other people too then you don’t really understand why the individual mandate is so important.  Exhibit A - adverse selection.

You sound like a lot of people I know.  “Hell no the government shouldn’t tell me I have to buy insurance.”  “Hell no an insurance company shouldn’t be able to exclude me because of a pre-existing condition.”

[Winona's Big Orange Bevo 197]

57 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

What is this ball you speak of? Again I have no ball. Why would I take ball home when I have no ball? This not making sense. 

(Shakes head)

These Americans. Always talking nonsense.

Same ball you throw thru ring to score touchdown. 

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

30 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

I probably know more about the ACA than 99% of the US.  I used to business consult medical practices and a huge portion of what I was having to advise on was how to deal with implications of the employer mandate in the ACA.  I have been to conferences on the ACA.  I know a shit ton about the ACA.  So funny, you think you know but you don't.

LOL, those conferences you've been to?  I speak at those.  Fuck the 99%, you can bet your ass you don't know more than I do.  And you sound like a complete clown talking about it.  What practices did you consult?  Northwestern and the AMA has paid me to work on ACA/value based medicine etc.  Just curious to see if you were peddling to some mom and pop practices or if you actually had any pull with real institutions...

[SubliminalHorn 6787]

Has tj explained yet how he can love the tax cuts but hate the exploding spending deficit? I’m looking forward to witnessing more mental gymnastics explaining this. 

[GRHorn 105]

2 hours ago, Js1 said:

Did you ever get the ones that asked if you were (insert religion) and then if they could pray for you?

Like, no?  Just give me your fucking debit card, Karen, so you can not tip me.

Sounds like you were/are just a shitty waiter.

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Venn diagram it.

Not all "Christians" are evil people.  And note, those quotes are important.  "Christians" is a label that people self-apply.   Followers of Christ, on the other hand, is an evidence-based label.  I have found followers of Christ to uniformly be good people, even though they have all the normal human failings.

But from my several years of waiting tables, all but one of my worst stories are about "Christians."  The meanest, most abusive table I ever waited on -- so bad that I handed it off to the manager, and he even agreed that they were horrible -- spent the entire meal being outwardly pious, praying loudly, etc. (when they weren't being cruel and abusive).

So, in the Venn diagram I crafted from my waiter experience, not all "Christians" are assholes.  But almost all the assholes I dealt with were "Christians."

Gandhi was spot the fuck on.

And I state this observance as the spouse of a pastor, and as a member of numerous religious organization boards over the past 15 years.

I don't remember much abusive behavior, but if bad behavior includes bad tipping Christians were not the obvious religious group to me.  I lived in South Florida for a brief time while I was a waiter.

[Biff Tannen 45685]

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Speaking of Christians:

 

[TexEx15 17528]

26 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

Horrible analogy.  You don't have to own a car.  If you don't want to pay for auto insurance you don't.  It is simple. Don't own a car. A lot of people in this country don't own cars.  You aren't born in the US with the requirement to pay for auto insurance whether you need it or not.  Try harder. There was nothing like the individual mandate in terms of laws ever passed in the US.  Never before by mere fact of being an adult citizen did the govt require you to buy a good or service. 

And you still failed to address adverse selection.  I can see that rebutting anaologies on a message board is your strong suit not articulating policy.

[jimmyjazz 45952]

27 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

Horrible analogy.  You don't have to own a car.  If you don't want to pay for auto insurance you don't.  It is simple. Don't own a car. A lot of people in this country don't own cars.  You aren't born in the US with the requirement to pay for auto insurance whether you need it or not.  Try harder. There was nothing like the individual mandate in terms of laws ever passed in the US.  Never before by mere fact of being an adult citizen did the govt require you to buy a good or service. 

Well as it turns out, none of us have the good fortune to avoid the possibility of getting sick, so your argument sucks.

If you want to own a car, you need car insurance.

If you want to be alive, you need health insurance.

Looks pretty equivalent to me.

[DDD Dad 14339]

5 hours ago, Chrispy said:

The homes have been upgraded throughout the years because of donations and our growing disabled community. We have an amazing and dedicated group of people here in Montgomery County. My uncle is privy to the allocation of funding, so I would need to ask him for specifics; however, I believe the social workers work for the county. 

You know none of us cares about your cousin's social worker situation, right?  

(We're trolling you)

[Guest Lobo]

10 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well as it turns out, none of us have the good fortune to avoid the possibility of getting sick, so your argument sucks.

If you want to own a car, you need car insurance.

If you want to be alive, you need health insurance.

Looks pretty equivalent to me.

You can own a car on private land and not have to buy a registration sticker and/or auto insurance.  Provided that car never leaves that land via a public road.

And you don't need health insurance to be alive, you need health care to be alive.  Would be a great starting point as Pres. Asshat doubles down on the ACA to remember it was meant to overhaul/address health insurance, not health care.  

[BradInATX 9208]

You know none of us cares about your cousin's social worker situation, right?  
(We're trolling you)

I'm actually interested in the conversation. It's a good example of how some people rationalize being against welfare for others but okay taking it themselves. My mother in law is the same way. She constantly reposts Facebook memes about welfare queens and lazy millennials but is herself on SS, Medicare, SNAP, and a few other programs.

It's an interesting phenomenon how every 'fiscal conservative' you ask is of course 'in favor of helping those that need it' and the need line is a constant moving target that magically always finds the in-between of "my needs" and "others' needs".

I've tried with limited success to get a cogent answer as to why it's okay for them to have a hand out but not others. You never get a clear answer. But I'm always seeking to understand.

[jimmyjazz 45952]

3 minutes ago, Lobo said:

You can own a car on private land and not have to buy a registration sticker and/or auto insurance.  Provided that car never leaves that land via a public road.x

Way to parse the argument down to the minutiae that aren't relevant.  If you're not posing a threat to others by driving on public roads, then sure, I'm OK with you not having car insurance.

 

Quote

And you don't need health insurance to be alive, you need health care to be alive.  Would be a great starting point as Pres. Asshat doubles down on the ACA to remember it was meant to overhaul/address health insurance, not health care.  

And what is the means by which we ensure that everyone has access to health care?  Law?  Sure, that works, and our ERs are overstressed and underperforming as a result.  I think the insurance angle re: life and cars is apt.

[jimmyjazz 45952]

3 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

Oh really, my God how did people get along before the ACA?  It wasn't required before then.  

Well, your dumbassery notwithstanding, I'll go ahead and answer this:

1.  plenty of people didn't "get along".  They fucking died.  

2.  plenty of those who didn't fucking die put a giant performance and financial headwind on our healthcare system because, as much as is reasonable (and particularly for acute and emergent cases) we go ahead and treat everyone, and often in the most inefficient way possible.

[Guest Lobo]

what percentage of U.S. citizens (both the employee and their dependents) still rely on employer-sponsored health insurance as their primary means of health care coverage?  

[TexEx15 17528]

6 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

Oh really, my God how did people get along before the ACA?  It wasn't required before then.  

 I am personally for freedom to do and pay for what you want.  If I don't want to buy auto insurance I don't buy a car.  The analogy holds no water.  Apples and oranges.  Keep trying to make it fit. 

Do you support the ACA provision that prohibits pre-existing condition exclusions?

[David Dennison 18860]

2 minutes ago, Lobo said:

what percentage of U.S. citizens (both the employee and their dependents) still rely on employer-sponsored health insurance as their primary means of health care coverage?  

About 56%.

https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2018/demo/p60-264.html

[Winona's Big Orange Bevo 197]

8 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

Oh really, my God how did people get along before the ACA?  It wasn't required before then.  

 I am personally for freedom to do and pay for what you want.  If I don't want to buy auto insurance I don't buy a car.  The analogy holds no water.  Apples and oranges.  Keep trying to make it fit. 

Someone asked for policy solutions. I know y'all won't like this due to the audience but the answer is competition and a wide array of plan options on a totally open market.  Allow groups of people to form to buy insurance like small business.  Open up insurance beyond state borders.  Create incentives for patients to be a part of the decision on the costs of different Healthcare.  Part of the cost problem is because insured patients are 100% not concerned about the costs of procedures, meds, etc. If incentives were created where if for instance you needed an MRI you would be able to shop cost for the lowest cost place that does it with the best reviews.  Whether that takes form in an old school capitated policy or some other form I don't care.  We need to foster competition and accountability all down the line.  That component does not exist yet exists in almost every other component of business in our society.  Just a few ideas you guys will hate. 

The problem I have with this idea is the same problem I have with privatizing education based on business ideas. Human lives and bottom lines. I think there should be a base level of decent health care available for everyone. Those who can, can buy supplemental or go private. 

[NWBuck 8566]

4 minutes ago, Winona's Big Orange Bevo said:

The problem I have with this idea is the same problem I have with privatizing education based on business ideas. Human lives and bottom lines. I think there should be a base level of decent health care available for everyone. Those who can, can buy supplemental or go private. 

The challenge, then, is those who can buy supplemental or go private don't want to also pay into the system that helps create the base level mentioned earlier.

It's understandable, but creates specific tension...

[BLKNSTY 289]

20 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

Someone asked for policy solutions. I know y'all won't like this due to the audience but the answer is competition and a wide array of plan options on a totally open market.  Allow groups of people to form to buy insurance like small business.  Open up insurance beyond state borders.  Create incentives for patients to be a part of the decision on the costs of different Healthcare.  Part of the cost problem is because insured patients are 100% not concerned about the costs of procedures, meds, etc. If incentives were created where if for instance you needed an MRI you would be able to shop cost for the lowest cost place that does it with the best reviews.  Whether that takes form in an old school capitated policy or some other form I don't care.  We need to foster competition and accountability all down the line.  That component does not exist yet exists in almost every other component of business in our society.  Just a few ideas you guys will hate. 

lmao. bro. this is what got us in this fucking godforsaken situation in the first place.

[David Dennison 18860]

1 minute ago, tjhooker said:

The problem we will have in this discussion is we are starting from 2 different points we don't agree on.  Most of the people here believe healthcare insurance or whatever form it is delivered to someone is a right to have.  You are actually born with the right for someone to pay for your healthcare.  Whereas, I believe as many others healthcare insurance or whatever you want to call it is not a right.  I don't believe I have or the govt has the right to require someone to pay for a certain good or service.  Therefore, when the 2 sides are actually starting at 2 completely different points of view it will be impossible for either to agree.  

You've already lost that argument. It's over.

[David Dennison 18860]

Just now, tjhooker said:

How have I lost that argument?

Most Americans think healthcare is a right and that number is growing, not shrinking.

[safe sex 11727]

Stop quoting this fuck. All of you. Holy shit.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20400]

1 minute ago, tjhooker said:

the same American population that is constantly bashed in CR for being morons and not being well informed?

 

No. The other portion of the population.

[David Dennison 18860]

2 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

the same American population that is constantly bashed in CR for being morons and not being well informed?

Some of them, yes. Not that it matters at all.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/10/03/most-continue-to-say-ensuring-health-care-coverage-is-governments-responsibility/

Edited March 27, 2019 by David Dennison

[safe sex 11727]

Stop stop stop

[Foosters 17856]

Some people view healthcare as something everyone should have access to in a civilized, first world country.

Others view it no different than a commodity to be bought and sold. If you cant afford that commodity, then you cannot have it.

Those two sides are never going to see eye-to-eye. Of course, the latter group's argument can be a bit much for some to swallow because failing to acquire that commodity results in, you know, people dying.

[David Dennison 18860]

Just now, Foosters said:

Some people view healthcare as something everyone should have access to in a civilized, first world country.

Others view it no different than a commodity to be bought and sold. If you cant afford that commodity, then you cannot have it.

Those two sides are never going to see eye-to-eye. Of course, the latter group's argument can be a bit much for some to swallow because failing to acquire that commodity results in, you know, people dying.

It's also hard to swallow when we, as a society, have already decided that it is most definitely not a commodity for those individuals who are 65 and older.

[David Dennison 18860]

1 minute ago, tjhooker said:

 

If we are going to make law and policy off of public opinion polls then ACA would have never passed as for many other laws in the past.  It is not a reason to do or not do something necessarily.

My point is that you have lost the argument that healthcare is not a right. The majority of people in this country believe that it is. 

[David Dennison 18860]

Just now, tjhooker said:

You are comparing medicare which you pay into you whole life to it being a right due to that analogy?

You only have to pay into the system for 40 quarters to qualify for Medicare. 

That's pretty much a right. If you don't work that much, by the time you hit 65, you'll certainly qualify for Medicaid.

Either way, Medicare and Medicaid are pretty clearly forms of insurance that are guaranteed by the federal government.

[DDD Dad 14339]

This sounds like a great discussion meriting its own thread (hint, hint).

[elguapo 4586]

17 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

That is absolutely false.  There was no real competition.  Patients had no say in the cost of the care, insurance was/is localized to a state level, groups couldnt form to buy insurance.  it was never a free market style system.  

Please provide a real world example of a country were a purely free market style system of health care has been successful.

[Foosters 17856]

5 minutes ago, elguapo said:

Please provide a real world example of a country were a purely free market style system of health care has been successful.

Prescription drugs?

[elguapo 4586]

4 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Prescription drugs?

Not a free market, and prescription drug prices are rising much faster when compared to other consumer goods and services, so not sure how that can be considered successful.  Try again.

[Foosters 17856]

2 minutes ago, elguapo said:

Not a free market, and prescription drug prices are rising much faster when compared to other consumer goods and services, so not sure how that can be considered successful.  Try again.

Yeah, I was kidding.

[elguapo 4586]

3 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Yeah, I was kidding.

Well fuck me

[FondrenRoad 4378]

7 minutes ago, elguapo said:

Not a free market, and prescription drug prices are rising much faster when compared to other consumer goods and services, so not sure how that can be considered successful.  Try again.

It's successful for the pharmaceutical companies.

[WhatTheBuck 28781]

2 hours ago, SubliminalHorn said:

Has tj explained yet how he can love the tax cuts but hate the exploding spending deficit? I’m looking forward to witnessing more mental gymnastics explaining this. 

Don't encourage him. 

[retread 2951]

What do we want to call the healthcare thread? I don't think we have one. I'll start it.