Donald Trump 2019

[Biff Tannen 45750]

4 minutes ago, yaqdum said:

the frustrating thing is these are basically good people, but the only reality they understand is their made-up reality.

Right, which makes them useless to the rest of the country.  Unfortunately, the great and wonderful internet has given them a platform to be heard.  They need to be quashed.

[Brisketexan 105449]

3 minutes ago, yaqdum said:

the frustrating thing is these are basically good people, but the only reality they understand is their made-up reality.

No.  They're not.  We've found out who they are.  They salivate to the dog-whistles of xenophobia and demonization of the other.  They are HAPPY to create detention camps for brown kids.  They will dismiss -- in a heartbeat -- the ideals of honesty and trustworthiness in order to follow a charlatan.

These are not good people.  They are bad people, who used to have the common sense and obedience to social order to keep their shittiness to themselves.  Now, they feel free to let their shittiness show, and they ain't shy about it.

[RomaVicta 30032]

1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

The only reason it could be interpreted that way is because Fox News and Republicans have constantly LIED saying liberals want "open borders". 

Again, this is why the GOP and its supporters are fucking dead to me.  Every argument is disingenuous. 

 

 

Well said. I've whined for years about the level of discourse in the country. The GOPs have just destroyed it altogether. The inability of the electorate to even really talk about issues civilly is second only to the entrenched deplorables as a cancer on the republic. Of course, the two metastasizing cancers are related.

The people you describe have made themselves available for brainwashing where they will shut out any alternative voice as, by definition, liberal and anti-American. They like it because it's easy and makes them feel like they're always right. I'm still astonished at the level of certainty at which anti-libs operate.

Conservatism, a term as far from its original meaning as liberal is nowadays, is a revealed religion. God has spoken the truth and I hear Him on the radio and watch Him on the TV. There is no God but God. It's ironic that they see jihadists (I so much prefer mujahadeen) as crazies.

I am encouraged that actual conservatives have separated themselves from the crippled mind crusade. I welcome them to the common cause of returning our country to some semblance of a functioning republic. I wonder where they land should that goal be achieved. Perhaps a third part of true believers will broker deals between the weakling Dems and the evil GOPs.

Or, we all take a few more swirls 'round the bowl before sliding into the hole.

[lemonlime 5503]

45 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

Yeah, it would be wonderful if five GOP senators grew a soul and defected to the democrats, but that shit ain’t happening and even if it did, would you give them credit or harangue them for not acting sooner? 

 

 And no one is asking them to "defect" or change their policy positions.  But if they actually caucused with them to, for instance, permit a vote on reopening the government which previously passed 100-0, or caucused with the dems on unqualified nominations, then, yes, I would give them credit.  As it is they write mildly critical op-eds, get criticized by the MAGA crowd for not pledging complete fealty to their demigod, and then don't actually act when it counts.  

[yaqdum 182]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

No.  They're not.  We've found out who they are.  They salivate to the dog-whistles of xenophobia and demonization of the other.  They are HAPPY to create detention camps for brown kids.  They will dismiss -- in a heartbeat -- the ideals of honesty and trustworthiness in order to follow a charlatan.

These are not good people.  They are bad people, who used to have the common sense and obedience to social order to keep their shittiness to themselves.  Now, they feel free to let their shittiness show, and they ain't shy about it.

damn, man.  would you cut out with this reality stuff.  i'm descended from those people and have my own fairy-tale story here to protect.

[hayden_horn 11365]

Just now, yaqdum said:

that's exactly right.  the frustrating thing is these are basically good people, but the only reality they understand is their made-up reality.

over and again they've been a great boon to this nation, starting with its inception.  problem is in a great many ways they are dumb as a hammer and just as destructive in the wrong hands.  rupert murdoch spotted them immediately on his setting foot on plymouth rock and set out to use them against the nation.

yeah, i saw earlier when @Brisketexan was asking "where will the trumpkins go?" 

they'll go back to gnawing leather or eating leaves out of their maga hats. fuck them. we don't owe them anything. they are mouthbreathers of the highest order, even if some of them are highly educated. 

it's gullibility that they have in spades. they want to believe. they range from conspiracy theorists to...conspiracy theorists. seriously, they believed the basement of a pizza place was the centerpiece to a goddamn pedophile ring. based on...some bizarre need for it to be so. they need to be convinced and led, because they are all followers of ideology rather than rationality.

as a matter of fact, it is their goal not to be rational. they don't want to stop and think. they want to react and to hate. they need some externality against which to rail. for some, it's jewish folks, for others, it's mexicans and central americans, for others, it's the cuck libs, for others, it's the bureaucracy. doesn't matter. just need to hate on something to keep that fire burning.

and it's that fire that's going to burn up the GOP. and most of the politicians in the gop are nihilistic enough to not give a shit. they either retire to go get that fat paycheck as a lobbyist or whatever, or they continue stoking that fire because it's all they know.

but eventually, they will again splinter into their very different conspiracy theory worlds. the reptile people will split from the qanon will split from the pizzagaters will split from the vince foster murderers. trump allowed them a singularity, but it's not a long term play, no matter how fatalistic we can be about it in the current environment. 

they are burning too bright to sustain. and that's the hope of the nation. 

[Js1 85609]

11 minutes ago, yaqdum said:

the frustrating thing is these are basically good people

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by Js1

[yaqdum 182]

i love it.

[RomaVicta 30032]

23 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

 

 

“If you can find The Vatican on a map right this second, I’ll give you the money for your wall. Oh, you can’t? Well, fuck off then.”

 

Retaining walls keep earth from sliding. The EARTH! From sliding!

So don't tell me walls are bad. Walls are good and do good things.

I don't know why the Dems hate walls. Walls hold up ceilings. I know, I'm a builder. 

WITHOUT WALLS WE HAVE THE EARTH SLIDING AND THE CEILING CAVING IN! Not good.

Must have a wall right away. No collusion.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

13 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

LOL. And do you actually believe Fox News or Rush will return to pro-establishment GOP? Or down any path that is actually productive or beneficial to this country?

They will go where money is. 

[Hank Kingsley 21060]

Yes they will. Thanks for proving my point. 

 

[retread 2951]

From the Trumpkins point of view (via Rush and FoxNews), the Ds have been getting it over on the Rs for the last 25 years. They finally have a 'leader' who give it back to the Ds in spades. There is no way they'll abandon Trumpism.

[David Dennison 18951]

3 minutes ago, retread said:

From the Trumpkins point of view (via Rush and FoxNews), the Ds have been getting it over on the Rs for the last 25 years. They finally have a 'leader' who give it back to the Ds in spades. There is no way they'll abandon Trumpism.

They are going to be so pissed when he caves on this and tries to spin it as a win.

His followers might buy it, but conservative media won't.

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by David Dennison

[hayden_horn 11365]

3 minutes ago, retread said:

From the Trumpkins point of view (via Rush and FoxNews), the Ds have been getting it over on the Rs for the last 25 years. They finally have a 'leader' who give it back to the Ds in spades. There is no way they'll abandon Trumpism.

yes they will. i said it on the last thread, but one of the great contemporary truths was uttered by walter sobchak:

 

no, donny, these men are cowards.

[Hank Kingsley 21060]

35 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I view politics as an art of shaping the world and society. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

They will go where money is. 

Here is the disconnect, Hugo. You appreciate the art. But people and corporations and politicians have chosen money over skill and imagination.

Look at Hollywood, the music industry, and reality television. Art is dying. Money is everything.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

4 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Yes they will. Thanks for proving my point. 

Think about how the Kaepernick thing worked out for Nike.  How do you think that registered with the money men at Fox News as their advertisers continue to jump ship on them? 

 Media and society have a symbiotic relationship in that they are reflections of each other.  

[jimmyjazz 46245]

There is no way Rush and FOX are going to suddenly revert back to some utopian version of Republican philosophy.  It most likely won't be Trump leading the charge in a few years but it will be another version of Trump, most likely a much more erudite, politically savvy version, but the underlying message will be the same -- a nationalistic viewpoint that values corporate greed over all else and which seeks to stoke the fears of the electorate by propping up any and all bogeymen they can.

[Hank Kingsley 21060]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Think about how the Kaepernick thing worked out for Nike.  How do you think that registered with the money men at Fox News as their advertisers continue to jump ship on them? 

 Media and society have a symbiotic relationship in that they are reflections of each other.  

I agree, but society is crumbling. You have to wear rose colored glasses to believe we make some sort of comeback without a complete collapse first. 

 

[atomheartbevo 89837]

5 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

Just heard Pelosi on NBC say that one of her reasons for opposing the wall is that “it says the wrong thing about who we are as a people.”

I assume most of the majority posters on this thread also agree with this statement. I’d appreciate hearing your perspective on why this is a reasonable viewpoint.

Others have mentioned some of these, but for me it’s not so much about “who we are” as it is a waste of resources (that will probably line the pocket of some developer(s) Trump knows).  

1. Doesn’t solve visa overstays, a much more serious problem, particularly from areas that have provided the terrorists behind 9/11
2. Doesn’t punish employers/companies who hire illegals - you know, the companies and people who actually make it worthwhile for illegals to make the journey
3. Doesn’t address Social Security # theft/fraud with the IRS and Social Security Administration.   Multiple people should not be using the same SS#. If the SSA and IRS knows that Atom H. Bevo lives in Austin, Texas, and Robert J. Smith in California is using my SS# to work for Gadgets Consolidated, the IRS and/or SSA should send somebody to Gadgets Consolidated to pay the company and Mr. Smith a visit.  
4. Fucks over a lot of law-abiding Americans, it takes their land or makes it inaccessible to them, it fucks over their water rights, it messes with cattle and wildlife.  
5. It’s pushed by people who have never visited much, if any of the border - it is physically impossible in many cases.  
6. In remote areas, it will be easy for illegals to go under, over, or through, requiring sensors and personnel (which we already have in many areas) to protect the wall itself.  
7. If we are going to have the sensors and personnel to protect and monitor the wall in the remote areas, save the money and eminent domain issues, and just use the sensors and personnel to monitor the border.  We already do this in many areas anyways.  

We shouldn’t be having a conversation about a wall, until we have taken care of visa overstays, identity fraud, and companies/people hiring illegals to begin with.   Those last two will vastly cut down on the number of people coming here anyways.  

Edited January 3, 2019 by atomheartbevo

[Dbeasy 15098]

1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

The only reason it could be interpreted that way is because Fox News and Republicans have constantly LIED saying liberals want "open borders". 

Again, this is why the GOP and its supporters are fucking dead to me.  Every argument is disingenuous. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Chuckie Finster said:

It is very hard to have this discussion when one of the parties insists on "WALL!" and won't budge an inch.  There have been countless articles, videos, TV specials, speeches, etc. outlining why the wall is a completely ineffective solution to illegal immigration, yet here you go "both sides"-ing it.  And this isn't a personal attack, I know you are a thoughtful poster. 

The fact that you (and millions of others, I'm sure) assumed Pelosi's "anti-wall" comments are synonymous with "anti-border security" goes to show how effective Trump can be with his bullshit messaging.  

It amazes me how you guys just automatically lump everyone into one of two categories, "us" or "them". Fox news, Trumpkins, GoP. The world is so so black and white to you.  The reality is that there are a full spectrum of people with various views and beliefs.  I happen to hate Trump, Fox News, and as of about 10 years ago, the GoP. But you can't seem to wrap your head around the fact that just because I dare raise a question about "your" team, it must mean I'm part of those "evil, stupid" people. 

I pointed out in my post that it would be ludicrous for her to believe that border security is not inline with our values. That means she must have been referring to something else when she said "our values". That leaves only one thing, the racist card. And my point, which of course on this board goes in one ear and out the other, is that every single time "your" party assigns someone as a racist when they have a different viewpoint, your team loses credibility. There are millions of people out there that hear that and become just as outraged as, hmmm, I don't know, let me think, oh, being called "an open borders supporter".  You see how that works? You are fully justified in being outraged at being unfairly called a supporter of "open borders", but if someone else is called a racist because they think a wall would help with border security, that's fine because, well uh, they are actually a racist.

It doesn't matter whether Trump is a racist or not. I think there's some pretty good evidence that he is a racist.  What's important is demonstrating leadership and the democratic congressional leader came across as undignified and just like all the other idiots running around calling everyone a racist. She needs to rise above it, stay focused on the facts of a wall being an ineffective tool to secure the border, and win the minds of not only her own team, but the tens of millions of us that are sick and tired of the tremendous faults of both parties.  The democrats have a chance to completely take over and dominate politics for the next 50 years. All I want to see is rational thinking and decision-making. On her first day back in charge, she tosses out the race card. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

Her first day back in charge, YOU assume she’s throwing out the race card.

Why do you think that is?

[Brisketexan 105449]

16 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

They are going to be so pissed when he caves on this and tries to spin it as a win.

His followers might buy it, but conservative media won't.

 

You are ignoring the fundamental lesson of Frankenstein.  Once Dr. Frankenstein, the god-man and creator, created the monster....he could no longer control it.

Rush and Fox etc. created Trump.  But they no longer control him and his fanbase.  Trump and the Trumpkins are in control.  If Rush turned on Trump tomorrow, and Trump called Rush a "secret liberal who hates America, nobody should waste time listening to him - SAD!", would Rush's audience a) stick with Rush, and turn on Trump, or b) turn on Rush, and tune out his show in order to be loyal to GodTrump?

Everyone here knows the answer is b).  The people who created Trump and Trumpism not only have no control over Trump, they are beholden to them.  The Trump base (formerly the Rush and Fox base) will listen to and watch what Trump tells them to.  And they will tune out what Trump tells them to.  Trump is in control now.  Of all of it.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Brisketexan

[wildcat09 29427]

6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Think about how the Kaepernick thing worked out for Nike.  How do you think that registered with the money men at Fox News as their advertisers continue to jump ship on them? 

 Media and society have a symbiotic relationship in that they are reflections of each other.  

Fox News doesn't exist to make money.

[retread 2951]

7 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

There is no way Rush and FOX are going to suddenly revert back to some utopian version of Republican philosophy.  It most likely won't be Trump leading the charge in a few years but it will be another version of Trump, most likely a much more erudite, politically savvy version, but the underlying message will be the same -- a nationalistic viewpoint that values corporate greed over all else and which seeks to stoke the fears of the electorate by propping up any and all bogeymen they can.

Yep. Just look at atomheartbevo's post ^^. Our govt has largely ground to a halt for the toddler in the WH. We're punishing fellow Americans with the shutdown in order to preserve a talking point from the '16 election.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

I think Trump is more afraid of Rush than the other way around.

I mean look at how this shutdown started.  

Trump is the puppet in this play, not the master.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Brisketexan 105449]

12 minutes ago, retread said:

Yep. Just look at atomheartbevo's post ^^. Our govt has largely ground to a halt for the toddler in the WH. We're punishing fellow Americans with the shutdown in order to preserve a talking point from the '16 election.

It isn't even a "talking point."  It's just a visceral, simian yell.  "WALL!!!!"

That's what our country is focused on.  We are the Stupid States of America, and we deserve everything we get.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Brisketexan

[wildcat09 29427]

2 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

 

It amazes me how you guys just automatically lump everyone into one of two categories, "us" or "them". Fox news, Trumpkins, GoP. The world is so so black and white to you.  The reality is that there are a full spectrum of people with various views and beliefs.  I happen to hate Trump, Fox News, and as of about 10 years ago, the GoP. But you can't seem to wrap your head around the fact that just because I dare raise a question about "your" team, it must mean I'm part of those "evil, stupid" people. 

I pointed out in my post that it would be ludicrous for her to believe that border security is not inline with our values. That means she must have been referring to something else when she said "our values". That leaves only one thing, the racist card. And my point, which of course on this board goes in one ear and out the other, is that every single time "your" party assigns someone as a racist when they have a different viewpoint, your team loses credibility. There are millions of people out there that hear that and become just as outraged as, hmmm, I don't know, let me think, oh, being called "an open borders supporter".  You see how that works? You are fully justified in being outraged at being unfairly called a supporter of "open borders", but if someone else is called a racist because they think a wall would help with border security, that's fine because, well uh, they are actually a racist.

It doesn't matter whether Trump is a racist or not. I think there's some pretty good evidence that he is a racist.  What's important is demonstrating leadership and the democratic congressional leader came across as undignified and just like all the other idiots running around calling everyone a racist. She needs to rise above it, stay focused on the facts of a wall being an ineffective tool to secure the border, and win the minds of not only her own team, but the tens of millions of us that are sick and tired of the tremendous faults of both parties.  The democrats have a chance to completely take over and dominate politics for the next 50 years. All I want to see is rational thinking and decision-making. On her first day back in charge, she tosses out the race card. 

Thank you for proving me right.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Fox News doesn't exist to make money.

I’ve often speculated this but given the ratings and what they pay Hannity and Tucker, it looks like a cash cow. 

Edited January 3, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[wildcat09 29427]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’ve often speculated this but given the rating and what they pay Hannity and Tucker, it looks like a cash cow. 

Hannity and Tucker are replaceable, just as O'Reilly was. The point of Fox News is to spread propaganda on behalf of conservative elites. Any profit is simply a nice bonus.

[BrickHorn 18290]

9 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

You are ignoring the fundamental lesson of Frankenstein.  Once Dr. Frankenstein, the god-man and creator, created the monster....he could no longer control it.

Rush and Fox etc. created Trump.  But they no longer control him and his fanbase.  Trump and the Trumpkins are in control.  If Rush turned on Trump tomorrow, and Trump called Rush a "secret liberal who hates America, nobody should waste time listening to him - SAD!", would Rush's audience a) stick with Rush, and turn on Trump, or b) turn on Rush, and tune out his show in order to be loyal to GodTrump?

Everyone here knows the answer is b).  The people who created Trump and Trumpism not only have no control over Trump, they are beholden to them.  They will listen to and watch what Trump tells them to.  And they will tune out what Trump tells them to.  Trump is in control now.  Of all of it.

Great analogy.  Rush and his ilk trained their audience to throw out logic and reason, and to rely solely on base instincts and emotion.  If it makes you angry, it is wrong and evil.  Ignore rationale and go with your gut.  It’s hedonism for people who like being pissed off.

Those fuckers have lost their ability to process facts and reach reasoned conclusions, especially where said conclusions challenge their preferred ideas.  Rush made them idiots, Trump won their hearts.  Their angry, rotten, imbecile hearts.  And now none of their former prophets of stupidity can do anything to win their affection other than grovel at Trump’s feet.  

As sad as I am for our country, I can’t help but laugh at assholes like Rush and Hannity.  You reap what you sow, fuckfaces.

Edited January 3, 2019 by BrickHorn

[David Dennison 18951]

7 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Fox News doesn't exist to make money.

That's news to Rupert Murdoch.

[Chuckie Finster 22755]

16 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

 

It amazes me how you guys just automatically lump everyone into one of two categories, "us" or "them". Fox news, Trumpkins, GoP. The world is so so black and white to you.  The reality is that there are a full spectrum of people with various views and beliefs.  I happen to hate Trump, Fox News, and as of about 10 years ago, the GoP. But you can't seem to wrap your head around the fact that just because I dare raise a question about "your" team, it must mean I'm part of those "evil, stupid" people. 

I pointed out in my post that it would be ludicrous for her to believe that border security is not inline with our values. That means she must have been referring to something else when she said "our values". That leaves only one thing, the racist card. And my point, which of course on this board goes in one ear and out the other, is that every single time "your" party assigns someone as a racist when they have a different viewpoint, your team loses credibility. There are millions of people out there that hear that and become just as outraged as, hmmm, I don't know, let me think, oh, being called "an open borders supporter".  You see how that works? You are fully justified in being outraged at being unfairly called a supporter of "open borders", but if someone else is called a racist because they think a wall would help with border security, that's fine because, well uh, they are actually a racist.

It doesn't matter whether Trump is a racist or not. I think there's some pretty good evidence that he is a racist.  What's important is demonstrating leadership and the democratic congressional leader came across as undignified and just like all the other idiots running around calling everyone a racist. She needs to rise above it, stay focused on the facts of a wall being an ineffective tool to secure the border, and win the minds of not only her own team, but the tens of millions of us that are sick and tired of the tremendous faults of both parties.  The democrats have a chance to completely take over and dominate politics for the next 50 years. All I want to see is rational thinking and decision-making. On her first day back in charge, she tosses out the race card. 

Kinda regret giving you the benefit of the doubt in my previous post.  The fact that you saw "the race card" in Pelosi's comments is incredibly unfortunate and telling.

Tip for the future: If you have to write 500 words about how you aren't a racist when nobody has come close to calling you that, well.... 

AND TO BE CLEAR: I am not calling you a racist.  I just think the "what do you guys expect when you call of us racists" card is incredibly overplayed and used to justify shitty politics.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Chuckie Finster

[retread 2951]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

It isn't even a "talking point."  It's just a visceral, simian yell.  "WALL!!!!"

That's what our country is focused on.  We are the Stupid States of American, and we deserve everything we get.

Yep. And if our country continues to be dumbed down, then the authoritarian aspects of govt will only increase.

[burntorangebongos 10752]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

You are ignoring the fundamental lesson of Frankenstein.  Once Dr. Frankenstein, the god-man and creator, created the monster....he could no longer control it.

Rush and Fox etc. created Trump.  But they no longer control him and his fanbase.  Trump and the Trumpkins are in control.  If Rush turned on Trump tomorrow, and Trump called Rush a "secret liberal who hates America, nobody should waste time listening to him - SAD!", would Rush's audience a) stick with Rush, and turn on Trump, or b) turn on Rush, and tune out his show in order to be loyal to GodTrump?

Everyone here knows the answer is b).  The people who created Trump and Trumpism not only have no control over Trump, they are beholden to them.  The Trump base (formerly the Rush and Fox base) will listen to and watch what Trump tells them to.  And they will tune out what Trump tells them to.  Trump is in control now.  Of all of it.

Trump needs Rush and still wants his love and approval or we wouldn't be in this shutdown. Trump maybe the monster but he is still greatly influenced  by Fox and Rush(Dr. Frankstein). 

[Brisketexan 105449]

1 minute ago, burntorangebongos said:

Trump needs Rush and still wants his love and approval or we wouldn't be in this shutdown. Trump maybe the monster but he is still greatly influenced  by Fox and Rush(Dr. Frankstein). 

To some extent, that is correct.  But that's only because Trump is too stupid to realize how much power he really has.  If Trump was even 50% smarter, we'd be turbo-fucked.

[David Dennison 18951]

16 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

You are ignoring the fundamental lesson of Frankenstein.  Once Dr. Frankenstein, the god-man and creator, created the monster....he could no longer control it.

Rush and Fox etc. created Trump.  But they no longer control him and his fanbase.  Trump and the Trumpkins are in control.  If Rush turned on Trump tomorrow, and Trump called Rush a "secret liberal who hates America, nobody should waste time listening to him - SAD!", would Rush's audience a) stick with Rush, and turn on Trump, or b) turn on Rush, and tune out his show in order to be loyal to GodTrump?

Everyone here knows the answer is b).  The people who created Trump and Trumpism not only have no control over Trump, they are beholden to them.  The Trump base (formerly the Rush and Fox base) will listen to and watch what Trump tells them to.  And they will tune out what Trump tells them to.  Trump is in control now.  Of all of it.

I agree, that's why I said his followers might buy it.

I also believe that when he caves, Rush and the rest of the conservative media will bitch about the Dems always getting over on the Republicans. That's why the shutdown is going on to begin with.

Edited January 3, 2019 by David Dennison

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

Hannity and Tucker are replaceable, just as O'Reilly was. The point of Fox News is to spread propaganda on behalf of conservative elites. Any profit is simply a nice bonus.

The thing is, they have to have a decent product to generate audiences otherwise the whole thing is worthless.  Whether or not profits or influence is the driving force is really a difference without a distinction. 

[David Dennison 18951]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The thing is, they have to have a decent product to generate audiences otherwise the whole thing is worthless.  Whether or not profits or influence is the driving force is really a difference without a distinction. 

It's profit and nothing else. That's what their audience fails to understand.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

To some extent, that is correct.  But that's only because Trump is too stupid to realize how much power he really has.  If Trump was even 50% smarter, we'd be turbo-fucked.

Trump’s skill set REQUIRES Rush and Hannity types. He couldn’t maintain control without their allegiance.  

Manipulation and more specifically media manipulation is Trump’s only talent. 

[atomheartbevo 89837]

23 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Rush and Fox etc. created Trump.  But they no longer control him and his fanbase.  Trump and the Trumpkins are in control.  If Rush turned on Trump tomorrow, and Trump called Rush a "secret liberal who hates America, nobody should waste time listening to him - SAD!", would Rush's audience a) stick with Rush, and turn on Trump, or b) turn on Rush, and tune out his show in order to be loyal to GodTrump?

Everyone here knows the answer is b).  The people who created Trump and Trumpism not only have no control over Trump, they are beholden to them.  The Trump base (formerly the Rush and Fox base) will listen to and watch what Trump tells them to.  And they will tune out what Trump tells them to.  Trump is in control now.  Of all of it.

Trump relies on the feedback from Fox and Friends, etc. to stroke his ego and reinforce his actions and opinions.  He displays this quite often in his twitter comments. 

If Fox turned on him, what would he have left?  Imagine if no major media outlet was sucking him off every day?

Where do his followers turn to for their news?  Breutbart is off limits.  Alex Jones?

He’s a reality tv star, and it’s what he was born to do.  He has to have that positive feedback.   He is controlled by that desire for it.  

[atomheartbevo 89837]

36 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

There is no way Rush and FOX are going to suddenly revert back to some utopian version of Republican philosophy.  It most likely won't be Trump leading the charge in a few years but it will be another version of Trump, most likely a much more erudite, politically savvy version, but the underlying message will be the same -- a nationalistic viewpoint that values corporate greed over all else and which seeks to stoke the fears of the electorate by propping up any and all bogeymen they can.

If Texas flips, or Florida and another few states firmly flip, the GOP is going to have a come-to-Jesus moment where they have to decide whether they want to be the permanent party out of power or not.  

[Hank Kingsley 21060]

Just now, atomheartbevo said:

If Texas flips, or Florida and another few states firmly flip, the GOP is going to have a come-to-Jesus moment where they have to decide whether they want to be the permanent party out of power or not.  

I think they've already had that moment. That's why the GOP decided to cling to Trump. This is their last ditch effort. 

 

 

 

[atomheartbevo 89837]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The 40% are malleable.  Just as they were indoctrinated into the religion of Trumpism, they can be indoctrinated into something else.  They are suckers.  They are ignorant and vulnerable. 

They are not evil. 

They are Letting themselves be driven by anger and fear.  They are okay with separating babies from mothers, or children dying in detention.     They don’t make political choices based on what’s best for America or their fellow Americans or human beings, they make political decisions based on “fuck you, pay me” or “fuck the libtards”.

They don’t even recognize they are the precious snowflakes who need safe spaces.  

[Fudge Nuggets 19227]

42 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

There is no way Rush and FOX are going to suddenly revert back to some utopian version of Republican philosophy.  It most likely won't be Trump leading the charge in a few years but it will be another version of Trump, most likely a much more erudite, politically savvy version, but the underlying message will be the same -- a nationalistic viewpoint that values corporate greed over all else and which seeks to stoke the fears of the electorate by propping up any and all bogeymen they can.

In other words, Mitt Romney.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

I think they've already had that moment. That's why the GOP decided to cling to Trump. This is their last ditch effort. 

The GOP really needed Hillary to win. They should be more pissed at Putin than Democrats.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

2 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

They are Letting themselves be driven by anger and fear.  They are okay with separating babies from mothers, or children dying in detention.     They don’t make political choices based on what’s best for America or their fellow Americans or human beings, they make political decisions based on “fuck you, pay me” or “fuck the libtards”.

They don’t even recognize they are the precious snowflakes who need safe spaces.  

If these folks consumed Sesame Street and Mr. Rogers instead of Rush and Fox News they’d be completely different people. 

It’s not just fear and anger they’re driven by, it’s emotion.  Just look at how much they LOVE and adore Donald Trump.

[atomheartbevo 89837]

6 hours ago, Mo Horn said:

He's not going to vote against him. He's already said he'd vote for the wall and he'll vote for his agenda but with a grimace, or something like that. It's all words and posturing, but in the end he'll vote with the GOP. Nothing new. 

If he wants to position himself as the proverbial Plan B to Trump, he will have to do more than write op-Ed’s on CNN.   I think he will toss in an occasional protest vote (people in Utah elected him knowing this). 

I also think he will form some little coalition of Republicans in Congress. 

Trump knows he’s a threat.  

[atomheartbevo 89837]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

If these folks consumed Sesame Street and Mr. Rogers instead of Rush and Fox News they’d be completely different people. 

It’s not just fear and anger they’re driven by, it’s emotion.  Just look at how much they LOVE and adore Donald Trump.

And look at how they consider themselves to be moral people, and yet they still support him.  

Theres plenty of names  for them.   Good people is not one of them.  

[Lurch 5931]

Good lord, do some research.  That one month spike is noise in the big picture.  Here's a longer perspective:

Clearly whoever was POTUS in 2009/2010 was the GREATEST JOB CREATOR OF ALL TIME.

[Celery Man 21004]

51 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

 

 But you can't seem to wrap your head around the fact that just because I dare raise a question about "your" team, it must mean I'm part of those "evil, stupid" people. 

I pointed out in my post that it would be ludicrous for her to believe that border security is not inline with our values. That means she must have been referring to something else when she said "our values". That leaves only one thing, the racist card.

They were talking about a wall, not border security.  The reason people are treating you like a MAGA idiot is because you were asking MAGA idiot questions in preparation to make a MAGA idiot argument, which is what you just made.  That Pelosi saying "building a giant concrete fucking wall across our southern border is not in line with who we are" only has one possible meaning - race card.