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Francisco 2.0

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M12BH

M12BH 544

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JFC, maybe it's because I'm a CPA and I've lived and breathed this shit for so long, but the number of people who think withholding and refunds are all just things that go into a meat grinder and magically come out as some random numbers at the end of the year never ceases to astound me.

 

Pay attention here:


The IRS tax tables ARE NOT SET UP TO PROVIDE YOU WITH A REFUND WHEN YOU FILE YOUR TAXES.  They are an estimate, based on the information that YOU are supposed to provide on your W-4 based on the calculations YOU are supposed to do on the backside of the W-4, of how much tax YOU are supposed to be assessed for the year.  If you do it correctly, you should have virtually no refund or no tax due.  That might not be the case if your income fluctuates during the year, if you get a bonus, if you work two jobs, etc., because the tax tables don't "know" this - they are based on the predication that you are going to earn x amount every week, two weeks, whatever your pay cycle is, and your taxes will be withheld accordingly.

Want a bigger refund?  Here's how:  increase your withholding by $20 per paycheck.  Or $50.  Or $100.  Or $10.  It doesn't matter.  At the end of the year, if you had more of YOUR money withheld from your paychecks than the amount of tax assessed on your tax return, you'll get a refund.  If you did not have enough of YOUR money withheld from your paycheck then you have to make up the difference.

So essentially, if you're getting a refund, you're giving the government a bunch of YOUR money out of each one of your paychecks so they can give it back to you when you file your taxes.  If you're happy about that then you're kind of stupid.  OK let me rephrase that...if you're happy about it once you understand what's happening, THEN you're stupid.  

Any questions?

 

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GHOSTUSER
GHOSTUSER

I fucking love this President. My 2 faves during my lifetime are Trump and Nixon. They share a lot of similarities and were besieged by the same groups of assholes. No I’m not trolling. Y’all, the lef

Francisco 2.0
Francisco 2.0
Brisketexan
Brisketexan

This.....is magnificent. The "younger generation" is going to have to work double-time to fund YOUR Social Security, which YOUR generation of elected officials raided the fuck out of.  And which,

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18606

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2 minutes ago, M12BH said:

JFC, maybe it's because I'm a CPA and I've lived and breathed this shit for so long, but the number of people who think withholding and refunds are all just things that go into a meat grinder and magically come out as some random numbers at the end of the year never ceases to astound me.

 

Pay attention here:


The IRS tax tables ARE NOT SET UP TO PROVIDE YOU WITH A REFUND WHEN YOU FILE YOUR TAXES.  They are an estimate, based on the information that YOU are supposed to provide on your W-4 based on the calculations YOU are supposed to do on the backside of the W-4, of how much tax YOU are supposed to be assessed for the year.  If you do it correctly, you should have virtually no refund or no tax due.  That might not be the case if your income fluctuates during the year, if you get a bonus, if you work two jobs, etc., because the tax tables don't "know" this - they are based on the predication that you are going to earn x amount every week, two weeks, whatever your pay cycle is, and your taxes will be withheld accordingly.

Want a bigger refund?  Here's how:  increase your withholding by $20 per paycheck.  Or $50.  Or $100.  Or $10.  It doesn't matter.  At the end of the year, if you had more of YOUR money withheld from your paychecks than the amount of tax assessed on your tax return, you'll get a refund.  If you did not have enough of YOUR money withheld from your paycheck then you have to make up the difference.

So essentially, if you're getting a refund, you're giving the government a bunch of YOUR money out of each one of your paychecks so they can give it back to you when you file your taxes.  If you're happy about that then you're kind of stupid.  OK let me rephrase that...if you're happy about it once you understand what's happening, THEN you're stupid.  

Any questions?

What's your estimate of the percentage of American taxpayers who understand this?

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18606

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1 minute ago, M12BH said:

about tree fiddy.

Well played.

But seriously. Even if you and I understand that when you get a refund you've provided the feds with an interest free loan, I'm not sure the average taxpayer gets that. They certainly don't have access to a CPA that can explain it to them and Turbotax and Walmart tax preparers probably aren't going to explain what's really happening when the government withholds too much of their paycheck.

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Texas Jeff

Texas Jeff 1932

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The NY Times had a graphic that showed 220,000 different scenarios, each one either with a tax cut or a tax hike.  About 75% of the scenarios resulted in a tax cut, but the average overall cut was about a dollar a day.

You can hover on the graphic and see the scenario behind each dot.  Some folks got a cut and some got a hike, and the effect is more extreme with higher earners.

 

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M12BH

M12BH 544

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1 minute ago, SubliminalHorn said:

I mean I understand it. I just never know if I’m calculating correctly or if I need to withdraw more. I would rather overestimate that not. 

That's fair.  There is a ridiculously long and complicated calculation on the back of the W-4 you can use.  Or if you want to get really fancy you can go straight to the IRS tax tables, estimate your taxable income (most of the time will be salary + interest and dividends if you're part of the 2% minus standard deduction or itemized deduction) and do the math.  That's your tax liability for the year.  That's the number that you should base your withholding on.

If your pay is fairly steady and you claim S1 or M1 on your W-4 then you should be OK.  If you want to be safer then use S0 or M0 to have more withheld.

Look I agree they don't make it easy.  I mean, it's the government and they're here to help you, right?  But at least you understand the concept, which is more than most.  

 

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Lurch

Lurch 5919

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What's your estimate of the percentage of American taxpayers who understand this?


Disturbingly small. I’d go 20%. The pride people show when bragging about a refund is always amazing to me. Even when you explain it, they’ll counter with something about it being an unbudgetted bonus for fun money.

I’ve tweaked my withholdings every year to try and nail zero without getting a refund, but the closest I’ve come is .15% due.
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M12BH

M12BH 544

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6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Well played.

But seriously. Even if you and I understand that when you get a refund you've provided the feds with an interest free loan, I'm not sure the average taxpayer gets that. They certainly don't have access to a CPA that can explain it to them and Turbotax and Walmart tax preparers probably aren't going to explain what's really happening when the government withholds too much of their paycheck.

You're right.  Turbotax and Walmart preparers SHOULD explain it though.  It's a really simple concept.  I mean, at least I think it is...maybe I'm just that out of touch with how fucking stupid most people are.  

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High Plains Drifter

High Plains Drifter 10970

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, M12BH said:

JFC, maybe it's because I'm a CPA and I've lived and breathed this shit for so long, but the number of people who think withholding and refunds are all just things that go into a meat grinder and magically come out as some random numbers at the end of the year never ceases to astound me.

 

Pay attention here:


The IRS tax tables ARE NOT SET UP TO PROVIDE YOU WITH A REFUND WHEN YOU FILE YOUR TAXES.  They are an estimate, based on the information that YOU are supposed to provide on your W-4 based on the calculations YOU are supposed to do on the backside of the W-4, of how much tax YOU are supposed to be assessed for the year.  If you do it correctly, you should have virtually no refund or no tax due.  That might not be the case if your income fluctuates during the year, if you get a bonus, if you work two jobs, etc., because the tax tables don't "know" this - they are based on the predication that you are going to earn x amount every week, two weeks, whatever your pay cycle is, and your taxes will be withheld accordingly.

Want a bigger refund?  Here's how:  increase your withholding by $20 per paycheck.  Or $50.  Or $100.  Or $10.  It doesn't matter.  At the end of the year, if you had more of YOUR money withheld from your paychecks than the amount of tax assessed on your tax return, you'll get a refund.  If you did not have enough of YOUR money withheld from your paycheck then you have to make up the difference.

So essentially, if you're getting a refund, you're giving the government a bunch of YOUR money out of each one of your paychecks so they can give it back to you when you file your taxes.  If you're happy about that then you're kind of stupid.  OK let me rephrase that...if you're happy about it once you understand what's happening, THEN you're stupid.  

Any questions?

 

 

gary-larson-far-side-cartoon-what-we-say

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'stache

'stache 21743

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1 hour ago, High Plains Drifter said:

So,  like the 1040 EZ in smaller font?

No, you still had to fill it out. California has been testing a program where you get a postcard with your tax information already filled out and if you have no corrections you can just send it back and you're filed. This system would only work nationally if you simplified the tax code. Like "fiscal responsibility" it's something republicans like to pretend they care about but in reality they are beholden to the richers who want all the loopholes so they won't do shit. Because they are pussies. (for the record dems are too on this issue).

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:


Let’s go ahead and tax capital gains as ordinary income while you’re at it, Mr John Lennon.

Yeah but according to the top .001 percent if you did that they wouldn’t invest in anything at all and their stocks and investments would go down in value as a result. Apparently they would just swim in their money like Scrooge mcduck instead. 

It’s the goin’ bankrupt to own the libs mentality apparently. 

Edited by JimmyJames
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horn4life

horn4life 3753

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We used to have a progressive tax code. We used to have affordable college without massive student loan burdens. We used to have CEO's that were not 1000 times more valuable than the employees. We used to have a thriving middle class. We used to run deficits to build infrastructure during recessions. We used to not allow foriegn ownership of Broadcast radio and Television.

Now we run deficits to further reduce the tax burden on millionaires. And a foriegn controlled entity called Fox News spews lies all day long.  And we owe all of this to... "The Republican Revolution."

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RPM

RPM 26185

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1 minute ago, horn4life said:

We used to have a progressive tax code. We used to have affordable college without massive student loan burdens. We used to have CEO's that were not 1000 times more valuable than the employees. We used to have a thriving middle class. We used to run deficits to build infrastructure during recessions. We used to not allow foriegn ownership of Broadcast radio and Television.

Now we run deficits to further reduce the tax burden on millionaires. And a foriegn controlled entity called Fox News spews lies all day long.  And we owe all of this to... "The Republican Revolution."

Welcome to Pottersville!

d9a.gif

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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32290

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8 minutes ago, horn4life said:

We used to have a progressive tax code. We used to have affordable college without massive student loan burdens. We used to have CEO's that were not 1000 times more valuable than the employees. We used to have a thriving middle class. We used to run deficits to build infrastructure during recessions. We used to not allow foriegn ownership of Broadcast radio and Television.

Now we run deficits to further reduce the tax burden on millionaires. And a foriegn controlled entity called Fox News spews lies all day long.  And we owe all of this to... "The Republican Revolution."

It's amazing how much has changed in the name of patriotism.  Meaning, if you are against the examples you gave, you were a fucking socialist libtard who hated God, baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet*.

 

*some commercial jingles stick with you over the years.

 

 

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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12 minutes ago, horn4life said:

We used to have a progressive tax code. We used to have affordable college without massive student loan burdens. We used to have CEO's that were not 1000 times more valuable than the employees. We used to have a thriving middle class. We used to run deficits to build infrastructure during recessions. We used to not allow foriegn ownership of Broadcast radio and Television.

Now we run deficits to further reduce the tax burden on millionaires. And a foriegn controlled entity called Fox News spews lies all day long.  And we owe all of this to... "The Republican Revolution."

.Fuck your feelings!

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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16 minutes ago, bolverk said:

How Newt Gingrich Destroyed American Politics

So basically Newt was and is a complete piece of shit like our current president. I could have written that long ass article in two sentences:

“Newt thinks he’s a great man but in fact he’s a piece of dogshit who did great harm to his country. When he finally dies we should bury him with Trump in a trash can in an unmarked grave somewhere in some trash dump.”

-fin

 

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bolverk

bolverk 29360

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1 minute ago, JimmyJames said:

So basically Newt was and is a complete piece of shit like our current president. I could have written that long ass article in two sentences:

“Newt thinks he’s a great man but in fact he’s a piece of dogshit who did great harm to his country. When he finally dies we should bury him with Trump in a trash can in an unmarked grave somewhere in some trash dump.”

-fin

 

While I agree, I think it's always useful to reflect on how we got where we are and assign blame accordingly.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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1 minute ago, bolverk said:

While I agree, I think it's always useful to reflect on how we got where we are and assign blame accordingly.

Of course. The article is actually very informative. The problem is most of the people who really need to read it, wont.  But if it converts some of the youngs its a good thing.

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26232

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We used to have a progressive tax code. We used to have affordable college without massive student loan burdens. We used to have CEO's that were not 1000 times more valuable than the employees. We used to have a thriving middle class. We used to run deficits to build infrastructure during recessions. We used to not allow foriegn ownership of Broadcast radio and Television.
Now we run deficits to further reduce the tax burden on millionaires. And a foriegn controlled entity called Fox News spews lies all day long.  And we owe all of this to... "The Republican Revolution."

Maybe we should Make America Great Again
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23356

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, bolverk said:

While I agree, I think it's always useful to reflect on how we got where we are and assign blame accordingly.

I always find it troubling when we try to scapegoat our current problems on a person or two from the past.

It isn’t so much that Newt, Trump, McConnell or Putin destroyed democracy.  It’s more that we and others stood by and let them do it.  

There will always be pieces of shit looking to do POS things, we need to be more vigilant and responsive so they don’t succeed.  

We have serious structural problems in our flawed democracy that have been neglected far too long.  That’s more to blame than any one person.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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bolverk

bolverk 29360

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

We have serious structural problems in our flawed democracy that have been neglected far too long.  That’s more to blame than any one person.

 

I wasn't meaning to assign all blame to one single individual, and I agree with you about the "structural problem" which I would argue is rooted in the tribalism that appeals to our worst angels.

  • Nationalists: It's my country right or wrong. If you don't like it, you can get the hell out!
  • The Rich: Let's gut government programs that support a strong middle class by supporting massive tax cuts on my and my friends' wealth.
  • Racists: Them uppity Negros got the right to vote now. I'm switching parties because my fellow Southerner gave them that and this Tricky Dick guy is appealing to my fears.
  • Evangelicals: They're taking God out of our schools and giving the right to choose to women!
  • The Old: These young kids are a bunch of snowflakes with kookie ideas!

Our "structural problem" is having a winner-take-all electoral system that allowed these deplorable groups to cluster into one tribal cult called Republicans, whose religion they'll now hold until it's taken from their cold, dead hands.

Edited by bolverk
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23356

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6 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I wasn't meaning to assign all blame to one single individual, and I agree with you about the "structural problem" which I would argue is rooted in the tribalism that appeals to our worst angels.

  • Nationalists: It's my country right or wrong. If you don't like it, you can get the hell out!
  • The Rich: Let's gut government programs that support a strong middle class by supporting massive tax cuts on my and my friends' wealth.
  • Racists: Them uppity Negros got the right to vote now. I'm switching parties because my fellow Southerner gave them that and this Tricky Dick guy is appealing to my fears.
  • Evangelicals: They're taking God out of our schools and giving the right to choose to women!
  • The Old: These young kids are a bunch of snowflakes with kookie ideas!

Our "structural problem" is having a winner-take-all electoral system that allowed these groups to cluster into one tribal cult called Republicans, whose religion they'll now hold until it's taken from their cold, dead hands.

The electoral college and the Senate are structural problems that allow for an unpopular minority to heavily weigh down all three branches of government.  

I understand these institutions were designed to protect the minority which is good but they’ve slowly been rigged over time to subvert the majority...not good.

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bolverk

bolverk 29360

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The electoral college and the Senate are structural problems that allow for an unpopular minority to heavily weigh down all three branches of government.  

I understand these institutions were designed to protect the minority which is good but they’ve slowly been rigged over time to subvert the majority...not good.

I think we're looking at two sides of the same coin: a set of artificially constructed binary options spread out over a mosaic of fundamentally unequal and sometimes intentionally gerrymandered geographies in order to form a "majority."

Edit: To put it succinctly, our form of government isn't representative of the will of the people.

Edited by bolverk
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David Dennison

David Dennison 18606

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21 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I think we're looking at two sides of the same coin: a set of artificially constructed binary options spread out over a mosaic of fundamentally unequal and sometimes intentionally gerrymandered geographies in order to form a "majority."

Edit: To put it succinctly, our form of government isn't representative of the will of the people.

That's a feature, not a bug.

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TheFlyingBoat

TheFlyingBoat 906

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4 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

It's not difficult to conceive a tax code that is progressive up through a certain (low) income, and flat above that.  There are a whole bunch of reasons we haven't gone there, and most are related to the fact that the uber-wealthy loves them some loopholes.  They're not about to let the government they bought and paid for raise their taxes any substantial amount.

Why are you conflating a progressive tax system with loopholes? Deductions and tax credits can exist in a flat tax system and you can have a progressive tax system without them. This is silly. Further credits and deductions have legitimate uses to encourage certain behavior and Pigovian taxes have consistently proven effective at inducing desired behavior. The small issue is that certain credits and deductions shouldn't exist. The big issue is creative accounting to get more income taxed in low tax areas and less taxed where it originated.

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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32290

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L.O.L.

Trump and Friends started making calls asking people to be nice to him:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/13/us/politics/deal-government-shutdown.html

Quote

As he inched closer to reluctantly accepting a bipartisan spending compromise without the money he demanded for his border wall, Mr. Trump offered no acknowledgment on Wednesday that his pressure tactics had failed even as aides sought to minimize the damage by tamping down criticism on the right.

 

Quote

One call was made to Lou Dobbs, a favorite of Mr. Trump’s whose Fox News show he often tries to catch live. Another was placed to Sean Hannity, the Fox host who regularly talks with the president. The message: Mr. Trump deserved support because he still forced concessions that he would never have gotten without a five-week partial government shutdown.

 

 

 

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