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Donald Trump 2019


Francisco 2.0

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46 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Ron Paul crowd really got cucked by Trump didn't they?

I think you mean anti-war crowd.  Don't let cognitive dissonance get the best of you, Trump is letting jackasses like Pompeo and Bolton influence him contrary to what he campaigned on.  IT"S OKAY TO CRITICIZE YOUR TRIBE LEADER WHEN THEY DO THINGS THAT ARE OBJECTIVELY BAD.  

 

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2 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

I think you mean anti-war crowd.  Don't let cognitive dissonance get the best of you, Trump is letting jackasses like Pompeo and Bolton influence him contrary to what he campaigned on.  IT"S OKAY TO CRITICIZE YOUR TRIBE LEADER WHEN THEY DO THINGS THAT ARE OBJECTIVELY BAD.  

 

Wasn't it a little silly not to expect Trump not to let the right-wing interventionist blob run roughshod over his admin?  He criticized the Iraq war during the campaign because he knew it was embarrassing and he could use it to hit his opponents.  However, like practically everything outside of trade, he doesn't really care about foreign policy.  

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1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

Congress must change the border?  Is he suggesting we annex Mexico?

What he is effectively suggesting, even if he and his deplorables don't realize it, is that we give Mexico all the land between THE WALL and the Rio Grande. Which means giving up control of the river to Mexico, which would include water rights, recreational use, environmental protection, crop irrigation, etc.

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2 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Wasn't it a little silly not to expect Trump not to let the right-wing interventionist blob run roughshod over his admin?  He criticized the Iraq war during the campaign because he knew it was embarrassing and he could use it to hit his opponents.  However, like practically everything outside of trade, he doesn't really care about foreign policy.  

I know many liberals that voted Trump as a fuck you to the DNC establishment and the intolerable wing that had been bastardized to support the limiting of free speech.  Many of those were true anti-war lefties that now feel like the got kicked in the stomach by this.  He lost the respect of many of these types of supporters for this move and rightly so.  The stress from the constant pressure of the MIC must give him the runs, but he definitely is being a little punk bitch with this move in vetoing Congress' bill (THE ENTITY THAT SHOULD BE DECLARING WAR PER OUR CONSTITUTION IN THE FIRST PLACE)  (all caps for emphasis.) 

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2 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

I know many liberals that voted Trump as a fuck you to the DNC establishment and the intolerable wing that had been bastardized to support the limiting of free speech.  Many of those were true anti-war lefties that now feel like the got kicked in the stomach by this.  He lost the respect of many of these types of supporters for this move and rightly so.  The stress from the constant pressure of the MIC must give him the runs, but he definitely is being a little punk bitch with this move in vetoing Congress' bill (THE ENTITY THAT SHOULD BE DECLARING WAR PER OUR CONSTITUTION IN THE FIRST PLACE)  (all caps for emphasis.) 

The following is my amount of sympathy for ANYONE who voted for Trump on the basis of what he supposedly believed/would do when in office:

tenor.gif?itemid=4982754

If you believe anything - a single thing - that a con-man says to get you to do what he wants (in this case, vote for him), you fucking deserve every ounce of betrayal you get, and you deserve to be mocked in the streets for the rest of your days.

Fucking idiots.  Left, right, doesn't matter -- fucking idiots, all of them.

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11 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

I know many liberals that voted Trump as a fuck you to the DNC establishment and the intolerable wing that had been bastardized to support the limiting of free speech.  Many of those were true anti-war lefties that now feel like the got kicked in the stomach by this.  He lost the respect of many of these types of supporters for this move and rightly so.  The stress from the constant pressure of the MIC must give him the runs, but he definitely is being a little punk bitch with this move in vetoing Congress' bill (THE ENTITY THAT SHOULD BE DECLARING WAR PER OUR CONSTITUTION IN THE FIRST PLACE)  (all caps for emphasis.) 

 

Kicked in the stomach is too good for such ilk. They should be kicked in the balls.

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1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

The following is my amount of sympathy for ANYONE who voted for Trump on the basis of what he supposedly believed/would do when in office:

tenor.gif?itemid=4982754

If you believe anything - a single thing - that a con-man says to get you to do what he wants (in this case, vote for him), you fucking deserve every ounce of betrayal you get, and you deserve to be mocked in the streets for the rest of your days.

Fucking idiots.  Left, right, doesn't matter -- fucking idiots, all of them.

I think some could make the case you're making about all voters in general.  All politicians, with the exception of a VERY small group, are con men/women.  But calling everyone fucking idiots for voting in a charade-shit show doesn't seem like a good way to foster growth, unity or civil disagreement. 

The bigger picture is the battle against disinformation.  The silver lining with Trump for me personally is his pulling back of the curtain on the power levers in Corporate Media and the awakening of the general masses as to the role the media obviously plays in controlling information and narratives.  

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2 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

I think some could make the case you're making about all voters in general.  All politicians, with the exception of a VERY small group, are con men/women.  But calling everyone fucking idiots for voting in a charade-shit show doesn't seem like a good way to foster growth, unity or civil disagreement. 

The bigger picture is the battle against disinformation.  The silver lining with Trump for me personally is his pulling back of the curtain on the power levers in Corporate Media and the awakening of the general masses as to the role the media obviously plays in controlling information and narratives.  

By routinely citing and legitimizing media that does the same thing but on the other side of the coin?

"Fake news is Fake! They are the enemy of the people!  Btw, here's a bunch of links to 'real' news organizations that will tell you the truth!"

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2 minutes ago, Foosters said:

By routinely citing and legitimizing media that does the same thing but on the other side of the coin?

"Fake news is Fake! They are the enemy of the people!  Btw, here's a bunch of links to 'real' news organizations that will tell you the truth!"

Has Trump been right to criticize CNN and MSNBC as "fake news?" Do they try and control narratives?  

I say yes. 

Has Trump countered with alternate sources that are not credible? Likely Yes and No depending on who you speak to and the source, but at least an awakening has happened with regard to the MSM's game in the first place. 

 

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13 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

I think some could make the case you're making about all voters in general.  All politicians, with the exception of a VERY small group, are con men/women.  But calling everyone fucking idiots for voting in a charade-shit show doesn't seem like a good way to foster growth, unity or civil disagreement. 

The bigger picture is the battle against disinformation.  The silver lining with Trump for me personally is his pulling back of the curtain on the power levers in Corporate Media and the awakening of the general masses as to the role the media obviously plays in controlling information and narratives.  

A both sides combined with a claim that Trump is helping to expose the evil MSM.  Nice try.  

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28 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

I don't think being contemptuous of rural people is a winning strategy.  

Agreed.  We have to force them to understand Lena Dunham and free tuition to a specific group for the history of their sins in particular.

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1 minute ago, Longhornfan1024 said:

A both sides combined with a claim that Trump is helping to expose the evil MSM.  Nice try.  

Maybe it was not his intent, but to deny that Trump has gotten a lot of the public to question Mainstream News outlets is to deny reality.  

Nice try?  What do you think I was trying?  

 

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7 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

Has Trump been right to criticize CNN and MSNBC as "fake news?" Do they try and control narratives?  

I say yes. 

Has Trump countered with alternate sources that are not credible? Likely Yes and No depending on who you speak to and the source, but at least an awakening has happened with regard to the MSM's game in the first place. 

 

tenor.gif

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34 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

I know many liberals that voted Trump as a fuck you to the DNC establishment and the intolerable wing that had been bastardized to support the limiting of free speech.  Many of those were true anti-war lefties that now feel like the got kicked in the stomach by this.  He lost the respect of many of these types of supporters for this move and rightly so.  The stress from the constant pressure of the MIC must give him the runs, but he definitely is being a little punk bitch with this move in vetoing Congress' bill (THE ENTITY THAT SHOULD BE DECLARING WAR PER OUR CONSTITUTION IN THE FIRST PLACE)  (all caps for emphasis.) 

We’re all in agreement.  Trump is an asshole and a terrible president.  Just vote for someone who can beat him in 2020.  

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2 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

Has Trump been right to criticize CNN and MSNBC as "fake news?" Do they try and control narratives?  

I say yes. 

Has Trump countered with alternate sources that are not credible? Likely Yes and No depending on who you speak to and the source, but at least an awakening has happened with regard to the MSM's game in the first place. 

 

This is a bullshit take. He complains because they are critical. He's not on some holy crusade to rid the nation of biased news sources. He spends most of his day propping up arguably the most powerful news organization in the country, because they spin his every move in the most positive light. 

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9 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

Has Trump been right to criticize CNN and MSNBC as "fake news?" Do they try and control narratives?  

I say yes. 

Has Trump countered with alternate sources that are not credible? Likely Yes and No depending on who you speak to and the source, but at least an awakening has happened with regard to the MSM's game in the first place. 

 

Wait.  You're saying CNN and MSNBC are trying to control the narrative, but some of the right wing alternatives might not be, depending on who you ask?

That's not a very good argument.  See if you can figure out why.

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1 minute ago, Foosters said:

This is a bullshit take. He complains because they are critical. He's not on some holy crusade to rid the nation of biased news sources. He spends most of his day propping up arguably the most powerful news organization in the country, because they spin his every move in the most positive light. 

Let's start with a simple yes or no question.

 

Do you think Mainstream outlets have an agenda to control the information and narratives to the public?  

Has Trump aided in making this common knowledge (no matter how much you despise *how* he's aided in making in more apparent?) 

You seem to assume I love Trump because he coincidentally has shone a light on the information controllers, but I don't think he was doing it out of virtue or it being the right thing to do but more out selfishness and covering his own ass.   

Chill out man.  

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10 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Wait.  You're saying CNN and MSNBC are trying to control the narrative, but some of the right wing alternatives might not be, depending on who you ask?

That's not a very good argument.  See if you can figure out why.

CNN, MSNBC, ABC, FOX NEWS, All these motherfuckers are controlling narratives and information.  There you go.  

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1 minute ago, American Swindle said:

Let's start with a simple yes or no question.

 

Do you think Mainstream outlets have an agenda to control the information and narratives to the public?  

Has Trump aided in making this common knowledge (no matter how much you despise *how* he's aided in making in more apparent?) 

You seem to assume I love Trump because he coincidentally has shone a light on the information controllers, but I don't think he was doing it out of virtue or it being the right thing to do but more out selfishness and covering his own ass.   

Chill out man.  

I think every news organization is biased in some way or another. Donald Trump only attacks their bias because of their negative coverage.  If you needed Donald Trump to tell you this, I don't know what to say. If the next Dem pres spends most of his day tweeting about how awful Fox News is, is that good for the system? Would that person be exposing the system? Would that person be good for the country?  I know you don't love Trump. The fact that you think every pol who's not a "privatize the local fire depts" is one-in-the-same though, says a lot.

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Just now, American Swindle said:

CNN, MSNBC, ABC, FOX NEWS, All these motherfuckers are controlling narratives and information.  There you go.  

But that wasn't your argument.

Regardless, to further Brisket's point, Trump hates it when CNN or similar simply plays video of Trump doing something stupid and then pointing out, in the simplest possible way, why it's stupid (which is usually related to his pathological inability to tell the truth, even when it serves no purpose to lie).  That's not an agenda, that's reporting, and Trump hates it because they use his own words as justification to mock him, instead of praising him (as FOX does).

Trump just can't stand looking like a fool, even though he does it all on his own.

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2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Your fucking entire premise is bullshit, because it ignores what Trump hates about media.  He doesn't hate agendas.  He doesn't hate failures to adhere to the truth.  In fact, he ADORES those things, and REWARDS them.

He hates coverage that he perceives as negative.  Period.  That coverage can be 100% truthful, and motivated by no agenda whatsoever (in other words, what anyone reasonable should want news coverage to be), and he would attack it.

Not only does Trump not have a problem with media that is agenda-driven and spews lies, he LOVES it.  He PRAISES it.

That's not a silver lining you see.  It's the light glistening off of a pile of wet shit.

My first premise was totally independent of the second, so I disagree with you.  Everyone is questioning everything they hear from ALL OF THE MAINSTREAM OUTLETS. Trump has had a lot to do with it in my opinion.

That's it.  

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Just now, American Swindle said:

My first premise was totally independent of the second, so I disagree with you.  Everyone is questioning everything they hear from ALL OF THE MAINSTREAM OUTLETS. Trump has had a lot to do with it in my opinion.

That's it.  

Yeah, the same people doing that are questioning the need for vaccines and the existence of global warming. They are not the sharpest tools and this isn't the type of questioning we need. Celebrating ignorance and vilifying expertise and evidence is not the cure-all you seem to believe it is.  

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5 minutes ago, Foosters said:

I think every news organization is biased in some way or another. Donald Trump only attacks their bias because of their negative coverage.  If you needed Donald Trump to tell you this, I don't know what to say. If the next Dem pres spends most of his day tweeting about how awful Fox News is, is that good for the system? Would that person be exposing the system? Would that person be good for the country?  I know you don't love Trump. The fact that you think every pol who's not a "privatize the local fire depts" is one-in-the-same though, says a lot.

Don't disagree with you.  

Your last line is a mis-characterization and a distortion.  

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2 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

My first premise was totally independent of the second, so I disagree with you.  Everyone is questioning everything they hear from ALL OF THE MAINSTREAM OUTLETS. Trump has had a lot to do with it in my opinion.

That's it.  

"Questioning the media" is not a positive.

"Questioning agendas and falsehoods" is a positive.

You are conflating the two.  Trump does NOT QUESTION MEDIA IN GENERAL.  He ONLY questions media that is unfavorable to him, even when that media coverage is everything we should ever want it to be.

Your path is one of stupidity, and zero objective truth.  Question all media, all the time.  Therefore nothing is true.....except what Dear Leader says.  That is the ultimate outcome of your path -- it's one that's been followed time and time again.  But I'm sure this time, it will be different, and will be a positive thing.

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12 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

Let's start with a simple yes or no question.

 

Do you think Mainstream outlets have an agenda to control the information and narratives to the public?  

Has Trump aided in making this common knowledge (no matter how much you despise *how* he's aided in making in more apparent?) 

You seem to assume I love Trump because he coincidentally has shone a light on the information controllers, but I don't think he was doing it out of virtue or it being the right thing to do but more out selfishness and covering his own ass.   

Chill out man.  

I do hope the media's obsession with Russiagate and the subsequent implosion of that story should hopefully discredit the MSM among at least some libs and centrists. 

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2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Yeah, the same people doing that are questioning the need for vaccines and the existence of global warming. They are not the sharpest tools and this isn't the type of questioning we need. Celebrating ignorance and vilifying expertise and evidence is not the cure-all you seem to believe it is.  

Dude....seriously?

Do you think it is bad for society in general to ask critical questions about the information they are being fed by mainstream media outlets that have been undoubtedly outed as pushing false narratives?  

 

 

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Just now, American Swindle said:

Dude....seriously?

Do you think it is bad for society in general to ask critical questions about the information they are being fed by mainstream media outlets that have been undoubtedly outed as pushing false narratives?  

 

 

 

What critical questions are you asking? 

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Just now, American Swindle said:

Dude....seriously?

Do you think it is bad for society in general to ask critical questions about the information they are being fed by mainstream media outlets that have been undoubtedly outed as pushing false narratives?  

 

 

When the reason is "because I don't agree with the conclusions those stories lead me to," yes, that's a fucking problem.  It's RESULTS-DRIVEN, not process and input-driven.

If Trump asked the same critical questions about Fox News as he does about CNN, you would be on to something -- you'd have a crusader for objective journalism.  That is not happening.  Literally the OPPOSITE is happening.  He CHAMPIONS agenda-drive, false-narrative spewing journalism....so long as the RESULT is that it praises him.

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13 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

Dude....seriously?

Do you think it is bad for society in general to ask critical questions about the information they are being fed by mainstream media outlets that have been undoubtedly outed as pushing false narratives?  

 

 

Critical analysis is a positive. But that isn't what Trump is doing and it isn't what people who are questioning the "mainstream media" are doing. Rather, they are denying objective truths in favor of subjective beliefs. Your second premise/assertion that mainstream outlets "have been undoubtedly outed as pushing false narratives" is over-broad and mostly hyperbolic nonsense.  

Do you believe that those questioning the utility of vaccines are "asking critical questions"? Or are they simply rejecting established science because they want to believe they are just as smart and learned as all those scientists and medical doctors?

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This is fantastic.




Now tell me about news organizations who want to control narratives and who have agendas.

I really hate that we so easily and continuously fall for the distraction and misdirection.

I also hate the what about if Obama said this... stuff. We have plenty of evidence the Trumps were, are, and will continue to be horrible people and con artists and how his marks are numerous and loud.
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17 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

When the reason is "because I don't agree with the conclusions those stories lead me to," yes, that's a fucking problem.  It's RESULTS-DRIVEN, not process and input-driven.

If Trump asked the same critical questions about Fox News as he does about CNN, you would be on to something -- you'd have a crusader for objective journalism.  That is not happening.  Literally the OPPOSITE is happening.  He CHAMPIONS agenda-drive, false-narrative spewing journalism....so long as the RESULT is that it praises him.

Yeah, i don't disagree with you at all, but it seems since I'm crediting Trump with the unveiling of the MSM's apparent biases to the masses (even though, as you said, only does it to CNN and not Fox News) then it's triggering the adamant anti-trumpers (like yourself) to convince me he's a piece of shit.  I'm already convinced, you don't have to sell me on the idea anymore. And I concede he shouldn't be given credit for it and it's just a result of insane modus operandi.   

All I'm saying is that it is good for us all to be critical of what these outlets spew to us. I mean for the love of all that is holy the examples are endless of false narratives that were proven to be lies:

RT hacked and took over C-Span

Russian Hackers Invaded the US Electric Grid (WP)

Trump Aide Anthony Scaramuccis involved in a Russian Hedge Fund (CNN) 

The Covington Story 

Russia Attacked US Diplomats at Cuban embassy using Microwave weapon (NBC/MSNBC/CIA) 

Trump created a secret internet server to covertly communicate with Russian Bank 

Paul Manafort Visited Assange 3 times in Ecuadorian embassy (Guardian)

Trump was offered advanced access to the WikiLeaks Email Archive (CNN/MSNBC)

 

Edited by American Swindle
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Just now, American Swindle said:

I'm crediting Trump with the unveiling of the MSM's apparent biases to the masses

But. That. Is. Not. What. He's. Doing.

He is NOT attacking "biases."  He is attacking RESULTS.  If it is critical of Trump, it is BAD.  If it is positive for Trump, it is GOOD.  That's it.  That's his entire thought process.  He USES words like "bias" and "agenda," but not as ANY criticism of methodology or failure to report objective truth.

In Trumpworld, truth and lack of bias is evidenced by one thing, and one thing only -- is it a positive story about Trump?

He isn't unveiling SHIT.  He is supporting and building up the exact model that you ridiculously say he is "unveiling."

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Swindle, your list screams "I got this from Drudge or some other far-right spew factory", but let's assume some of it happened.  Have you ever noticed what CNN does when they get a story wrong?  They issue a retraction and sometimes an apology.  Have you ever noticed what FOX does when they get a story wrong, which happens at probably 10X the rate CNN does?  FOX does nothing.  Which media outlet is more interested in driving a narrative and which is more interested in telling the truth?

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Just now, jimmyjazz said:

Swindle, your list screams "I got this from Drudge or some other far-right spew factory", but let's assume some of it happened.  Have you ever noticed what CNN does when they get a story wrong?  They issue a retraction and sometimes an apology.  Have you ever noticed what FOX does when they get a story wrong, which happens at problem 10X the rate CNN does?  FOX does nothing.  AND TRUMP TWEETS ABOUT THE FALSE STORY AND PRAISES FOX NEWS FOR THE STORY.

The fact that Swindle skips over that part I added for accuracy is what makes his entire premise fucking ridiculous.  We KNOW what Trump thinks of inaccurate reporting -- he fucking LOVES IT.  He re-tweets it and amplifies it.

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9 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

Yeah, i don't disagree with you at all, but it seems since I'm crediting Trump with the unveiling of the MSM's apparent biases to the masses (even though, as you said, only does it to CNN and not Fox News) then it's triggering the adamant anti-trumpers (like yourself) to convince me he's a piece of shit.  I'm already convinced, you don't have to sell me on the idea anymore. And I concede he shouldn't be given credit for it and it's just a result of insane modus operandi.   

All I'm saying is that it is good for us all to be critical of what these outlets spew to us. I mean for the love of all that is holy the examples are endless of false narratives that were proven to be lies:

RT hacked and took over C-Span

Russian Hackers Invaded the US Electric Grid (WP)

Trump Aide Anthony Scaramuccis involved in a Russian Hedge Fund (CNN) 

The Covington Story 

Russia Attacked US Diplomats at Cuban embassy using Microwave weapon (NBC/MSNBC/CIA) 

Trump created a secret internet server to covertly communicate with Russian Bank 

Paul Manafort Visited Assange 3 times in Ecuadorian embassy (Guardian)

Trump was offered advanced access to the WikiLeaks Email Archive (CNN/MSNBC)

 

You can’t seem to grasp the difference between: a) journalists getting a story wrong, which unfortunately happens, despite having seemingly credible sources; and b) knowing a story is complete bullshit but intentionally putting it out in the public to control a “narrative.”  There’s even c) intentionally burying a story that is correct because it will hurt the “narrative.”

We all know which media outlets fall into those categories. Well, most of us do  

 

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