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Donald Trump 2019

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GHOSTUSER
GHOSTUSER

I fucking love this President. My 2 faves during my lifetime are Trump and Nixon. They share a lot of similarities and were besieged by the same groups of assholes. No I’m not trolling. Y’all, the lef

Francisco 2.0
Francisco 2.0
Brisketexan
Brisketexan

This.....is magnificent. The "younger generation" is going to have to work double-time to fund YOUR Social Security, which YOUR generation of elected officials raided the fuck out of.  And which,

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Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13537

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, HenryJames said:

 

The job description is in title. Nevertheless, please refrain from advising the president of foreign national security threats that hinder American citizens' ability to chose who governs them. He's still dreadfully upset over the election and we mustn't upset him.

Edited by Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand
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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29174

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so to keep the american public in the dark about whether he previously obstructed the shit out of justice, he seems to be currently obstructing the shit out of justice.

it's like getting arrested for resisting arrest.  you're under arrest.  no i'm not.  you're under arrest.

cue the xzibit meme.

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Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

so to keep the american public in the dark about whether he previously obstructed the shit out of justice, he seems to be currently obstructing the shit out of justice. 

It will be glorious when he gets impeached for crimes committed after the Mueller report is filed. Imagine all the shady shit that he's currently trying to pull with SDNY. I bet Rudy is working the phones hard.

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Ghost of LL

Ghost of LL 15348

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Is it? Or do they want the Dems to impeach so they can fundraise and campaign on it and get Trump a second term?

I think there's a lot of that.  But I think they've miscalculated.

Everyone is extrapolating consequences of a impeachment-without-conviction from a sample size of 1.  That's not a very sound way to predict future events. 

Pelosi and the Democrats act like not impeaching is the safe play.  It isn't.  It holds its own risks.  It may be damaging to Democratic prospects to forego impeachment than to impeach.  If Democrats don't impeach, then their base may be dispirited and disguised with the gutlessness of the Democratic Party, say "what's the point," and stay at home.

The fact is that we don't know what is "good politics" in this situation, because we've never seen it before.  We're all just speculating.  And in a your-guess-is-as-good-as-mine scenario, it's best to default to the what's-the-right-thing-to-do position.

 

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Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13537

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Posted
I think there's a lot of that.  But I think they've miscalculated.
Everyone is extrapolating consequences of a impeachment-without-conviction from a sample size of 1.  That's not a very sound way to predict future events. 
Pelosi and the Democrats act like not impeaching is the safe play.  It isn't.  It holds its own risks.  It may be damaging to Democratic prospects to forego impeachment than to impeach.  If Democrats don't impeach, then their base may be dispirited and disguised with the gutlessness of the Democratic Party, say "what's the point," and stay at home.
The fact is that we don't know what is "good politics" in this situation, because we've never seen it before.  We're all just speculating.  And in a your-guess-is-as-good-as-mine scenario, it's best to default to the what's-the-right-thing-to-do position.
 
If Dems don't impeach, they've basically provided an unfettered roadmap for every subsequent GOP administration.

Sent from my LM-X210CM using Tapatalk

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28700

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Nope said:

600 tweets under that hashtag in the last hour

Surely not the majority 

What's so encouraging about a trending hashtag on Twitter? It doesn't in any way indicate that impeachment would even get a vote in the Senate let alone enough GOP votes for removal. And there's a reason Trump fares best in the phone poll that only calls land line numbers. I don't think a trending hashtag on Twitter serves as a finger on the pulse of Trump's base. 

I do think that Trump might be trying to bait the House Dems into impeaching him because he wants to play the victim and wants a fight that he can fundraise and campaign on in order to win a second term. He knows there's not a chance in Hell of it resulting in his removal. I'm suspicious of any so called Republicans supporting impeachment because a) it doesn't matter, and b) that support is likely to disappear as soon as articles of impeachment are filed. 

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retread 2951

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Just like to go on the record and say obstruction of justice into an investigation of a Russian attack on American Democracy should be an impeachable offense for a President of the United States.

I can’t believe this needs to be said or debated. 

Nixon's articles in part https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_process_against_Richard_Nixon#Articles_of_impeachment

Quote

Article I alleged in part:

On June 17, 1972, and prior thereto, agents of the Committee for the Re-election of the President committed unlawful entry of the headquarters of the Democratic National Committee in Washington, District of Columbia, for the purpose of securing political intelligence. Subsequent thereto, Richard M. Nixon, using the powers of his high office, engaged personally and through his close subordinates and agents, in a course of conduct or plan designed to delay, impede, and obstruct the investigation of such illegal entry; to cover up, conceal and protect those responsible; and to conceal the existence and scope of other unlawful covert activities.[98]

Article II alleged in part that Nixon:

repeatedly engaged in conduct violating the constitutional rights of citizens, impairing the due and proper administration of justice and the conduct of lawful inquiries, or contravening the laws governing agencies of the executive branch and the purposes of these agencies.[98]

Article III alleged in part that Nixon:

failed without lawful cause or excuse to produce papers and things as directed by duly authorized subpoenas issued by the Committee on the Judiciary of the House of Representatives on April 11, 1974, May 15, 1974, May 30, 1974, and June 24, 1974, and willfully disobeyed such subpoenas.[98]

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Nope

Nope 3111

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

What's so encouraging about a trending hashtag on Twitter? It doesn't in any way indicate that impeachment would even get a vote in the Senate let alone enough GOP votes for removal. And there's a reason Trump fares best in the phone poll that only calls land line numbers. I don't think a trending hashtag on Twitter serves as a finger on the pulse of Trump's base. 

I do think that Trump might be trying to bait the House Dems into impeaching him because he wants to play the victim and wants a fight that he can fundraise and campaign on in order to win a second term. He knows there's not a chance in Hell of it resulting in his removal. I'm suspicious of any so called Republicans supporting impeachment because a) it doesn't matter, and b) that support is likely to disappear as soon as articles of impeachment are filed. 

I’m encouraged to know that there’s a large number of Republicans who aren’t in the cult, that’s enough for me right now.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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26 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

I think there's a lot of that.  But I think they've miscalculated.

Everyone is extrapolating consequences of a impeachment-without-conviction from a sample size of 1.  That's not a very sound way to predict future events. 

Pelosi and the Democrats act like not impeaching is the safe play.  It isn't.  It holds its own risks.  It may be damaging to Democratic prospects to forego impeachment than to impeach.  If Democrats don't impeach, then their base may be dispirited and disguised with the gutlessness of the Democratic Party, say "what's the point," and stay at home.

The fact is that we don't know what is "good politics" in this situation, because we've never seen it before.  We're all just speculating.  And in a your-guess-is-as-good-as-mine scenario, it's best to default to the what's-the-right-thing-to-do position.

 

Excellent point. We’re in uncharted territory here.

Plus I’m kind of tired about hearing that 40 percent support trump no matter what because it’s not true. Half of those people support the job approval of the president as long as the economy’s in their favor no matter what. The number of irredeemable trumpkins is closer to 25 percent. Anyone who doesn’t think the president is scum by now is hopeless. He should be impeached. Let the traitors in the senate let him slide. History will remember. 

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Irwin F Fletcher

Irwin F Fletcher 3550

Posted
Posted (edited)

The democrat's strategy should be as follows. The Judiciary Committee should hold hearings on the Mueller Report. Have Mueller testify before the committee, request others to testify. Those that don't should be held in contempt of Congress (not sure what legal ramifications that holds), and/or go to court to make them testify. It all needs to be documented for the American public. It is Congress' job and not doing so will only weaken the nation. Edited to add, if there is evidence to move to impeachment in the House then do so.

Moving forward with this strategy will drive Trump crazy. We've already seen his Twitter responses from when the Mueller report was released. It has him rattled. The Democrats can keep him in this state by doing their job. On the same front, they should continue to pursue his tax records, they have the authority to do so. At some point Trump is going to step further over the line and the shit will really hit the fan.

Congress. Do. Your. Job.

Edited by Irwin F Fletcher
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Ghost of LL

Ghost of LL 15348

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Irwin F Fletcher said:

The democrat's strategy should be as follows. The Judiciary Committee should hold hearings on the Mueller Report. Have Mueller testify before the committee, request others to testify. Those that don't should be held in contempt of Congress (not sure what legal ramifications that holds), and/or go to court to make them testify. It all needs to be documented for the American public. It is Congress' job and not doing so will only weaken the nation. Edited to add, if there is evidence to move to impeachment in the House then do so.

Moving forward with this strategy will drive Trump crazy. We've already seen his Twitter responses from when the Mueller report was released. It has him rattled. The Democrats can keep him in this state by doing their job. On the same front, they should continue to pursue his tax records, they have the authority to do so. At some point Trump is going to step further over the line and the shit will really hit the fan.

Congress. Do. Your. Job.

Fuck the Courts.  

Open impeachment hearings.  Call Mueller.  Call Cohen (whose testimony provides separate bases for impeachment). 

Then subpoena Barr.  If he refuses to testify at an impeachment hearing, then impeach him for obstructing Congress from carrying out its constitutional obligation.

Then call Mnuchin about the tax returns.  If he refuses to do the same, then impeach him, too.

Then impeach Trump, adding an additional article for obstructing Congress's constitutional oversight duties.

If the Senate Republicans vote to acquit, then fine--it's a vote to dissolve the United States Congress as a legitimate body.  Let the judgment of history be on them.

 

eta: and by the way--if you do this, you tie up the Senate with trials and impair its ability to confirm Trump's various appointees.

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29174

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Irwin F Fletcher said:

The democrat's strategy should be as follows. The Judiciary Committee should hold hearings on the Mueller Report. Have Mueller testify before the committee, request others to testify. Those that don't should be held in contempt of Congress (not sure what legal ramifications that holds), and/or go to court to make them testify. It all needs to be documented for the American public. It is Congress' job and not doing so will only weaken the nation. Edited to add, if there is evidence to move to impeachment in the House then do so.

Moving forward with this strategy will drive Trump crazy. We've already seen his Twitter responses from when the Mueller report was released. It has him rattled. The Democrats can keep him in this state by doing their job. On the same front, they should continue to pursue his tax records, they have the authority to do so. At some point Trump is going to step further over the line and the shit will really hit the fan.

Congress. Do. Your. Job.

the hope is that subpoena pressure on people they call (mcgahn, etc) will force these targets to make a choice - either side with trump (again) or risk going to jail/losing their licenses/livelihoods.  they've already waived executive privilege and trump can only delay so long.

once a few people testify, it should weaken the resolve just a little, and hopefully start to break the dam.

like i mentioned earlier, deutsche bank is now cooperating with the ag of ny.  that's not quite something yet, but it's not nothing. 

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29174

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Fuck the Courts.  

Open impeachment hearings.  Call Mueller.  Call Cohen (whose testimony provides separate bases for impeachment). 

Then subpoena Barr.  If he refuses to testify at an impeachment hearing, then impeach him for obstructing Congress from carrying out its constitutional obligation.

Then call Mnuchin about the tax returns.  If he refuses to do the same, then impeach him, too.

Then impeach Trump, adding an additional article for obstructing Congress's constitutional oversight duties.

If the Senate Republicans vote to acquit, then fine--it's a vote to dissolve the United States Congress as a legitimate body.  Let the judgment of history be on them.

i'm still curious about all the docs he mentioned he's willing to hand over/go through.  remember, there's still 14 open cases and at least one of them involves cohen.  that's not gonna be good news for trump.

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Posted (edited)

If people refuse to testify based on subpoena, Congress apparently can:

1) hold them in contempt and then arrest and detain them (jail)

2) ask the US Atty for DC to press charges

3) file a civil suit and get a judge to rule that compliance is required

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-congress-subpoena-explainer/explainer-congress-no-longer-runs-a-jail-so-just-how-powerful-are-its-subpoenas-idUSKCN1S02K8 

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

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The president escalates his unprecedented abuses of power to obstruct congressional investigations of his misconduct, and plenty of Dems are still scared to legitimately use their impeachment power in response.   "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity." 

 

*using "best" very loosely. 

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Ghost of LL

Ghost of LL 15348

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The good news is Trump can’t pardon himself because Mueller made it clear he can’t be charged with a federal crime while in office. 

Another good reason to open impeachment proceedings--the pardon power can't be used "in cases of impeachment."

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28700

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31 minutes ago, Nope said:

I’m encouraged to know that there’s a large number of Republicans who aren’t in the cult, that’s enough for me right now.

How certain are you that everyone using the hashtag is actually a Republican? Are they all explicitly expressing their regret for voting for Trump and their desire to see him removed from office? If those people are out there, none of them post here. 

You know what they say about, "If it sounds too good to be true." 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104465

Posted
Posted
Just now, WhatTheBuck said:

How certain are you that everyone using the hashtag is actually a Republican? Are they all explicitly expressing their regret for voting for Trump and their desire to see him removed from office? If those people are out there, none of them post here. 

You know what they say about, "If it sounds too good to be true." 

This.  I suspect it's about as real as #blexit and other bullshit hashtags like that.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104465

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Posted
2 minutes ago, retread said:

Like GoLL said on the last page, it will be a shame if the Ds demoralize their base through inaction and give Cheeto another term.

They will.  I've never deviated from that expectation.

The dems will absolutely fuck this up, through their unique blend of fuckuppery.  They'll exhibit no courage whatsoever in Congress.  And in their White House run, if the nominee is Bernie, he won't attract enough "gettable" voters from the middle third of the spectrum to win.  If they nominate anyone OTHER than Bernie, the Bernie bros will, in material numbers, defect to Trump as an "I told you so, so now you have to pay for your transgressions" to those who dared to not support him, or vote for some third party twit like Jill Stein (or stay home altogether).  So, Trump wins.

It's the obvious outcome, and it has been for quite some time.

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retread 2951

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Posted (edited)

I didn't think he'd make it this long. He must be getting HGH from the lizard people.

9 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

They will.  I've never deviated from that expectation.

The dems will absolutely fuck this up, through their unique blend of fuckuppery.  They'll exhibit no courage whatsoever in Congress.  

Somewhere in there will be the calculation that pursuing impeachment would mess it up for the D nominee, so we'll just keep issuing subpoenas.

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Nope

Nope 3111

Posted
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

How certain are you that everyone using the hashtag is actually a Republican? Are they all explicitly expressing their regret for voting for Trump and their desire to see him removed from office? If those people are out there, none of them post here. 

You know what they say about, "If it sounds too good to be true." 

Like I said, go look at the tweets yourself and make your own judgment.

You’re not about to talk me out of my state of mild encouragement.

Edited by Nope
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23356

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Nope said:

Like I said, go look at the tweets yourself

Even if manufactured, the fact there is a social media influence operation to push republicans towards dumping Trump is a good thing, unless of course if it’s coming from the Russians or other foreign governments, that shit isn’t cool. 

People need to understand it’s not the GOP Senators that need persuading, it’s the Republican voters that need to persuade their Senators. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13537

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Posted

JFC.

 

The GOP looked at the Constitution, looked at the Dems and said "Gorsuch is a Supreme Court justice. Wut the fuck are you going to do about it?" to the Dems' "Nothing fellow collegue, though I shall be filing a strongly worded objection."

 

It's not that political strategy is meritless, perhaps keeping a fuck-ton of powder dry is advisable, but I'm at Carroll O' Connor Kelly's Heroes-level of wanting to see someone fight back. I want to see some balls hang (no homo, nttatwwt).

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Horn Dog

Horn Dog 9644

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Posted
41 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Another good reason to open impeachment proceedings--the pardon power can't be used "in cases of impeachment."

Well you see, as disciplined Constitutional originalists, it is clear that to us that this doesn’t really apply to repub presidents.  Balls and strikes and such....

Sincerely,

Justices Roberts, Alito, Thomas, Kavanaugh, Gorsuch

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Irwin F Fletcher

Irwin F Fletcher 3550

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Posted
30 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

How certain are you that everyone using the hashtag is actually a Republican? Are they all explicitly expressing their regret for voting for Trump and their desire to see him removed from office? If those people are out there, none of them post here. 

You know what they say about, "If it sounds too good to be true." 

I'd fall in that category, though I haven't used the hashtag. I've admitted here in previous threads that I voted for Trump and had voted straight republican ticket since the late 80's. Boy was I wrong in 2016. I won't vote for Trump in 2020 and will most likely vote for a democrat for President if I feel that the majority of their policies fall in line with my beliefs. As it stands currently the only democratic candidate that I can't see myself voting for is Bernie, he's just to far left for me. In that case I won't vote for either. There are more of "us" out there. Not sure if I'm here on an island on Surly in this regard. I have feeling that as we get closer to the election and if Congress does its job and holds hearings on the Mueller Report there will be more republicans who voted in 2016 for Trump that will choose to either not vote for him again in 2020 and quite possible find a democratic candidate that they could feel comfortable supporting.

 

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