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Donald Trump 2019

Francisco 2.0

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29601

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Nazi Trump fan in Livingston, Texas.  

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/You-really-can-t-ignore-it-Nazi-flags-spotted-14055228.php?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral

I'm not saying someone should burn that house down, but if someone has to burn A house down, that's probably the best one for them to pick.

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GHOSTUSER
GHOSTUSER

I fucking love this President. My 2 faves during my lifetime are Trump and Nixon. They share a lot of similarities and were besieged by the same groups of assholes. No I’m not trolling. Y’all, the lef

Francisco 2.0
Francisco 2.0
Brisketexan
Brisketexan

This.....is magnificent. The "younger generation" is going to have to work double-time to fund YOUR Social Security, which YOUR generation of elected officials raided the fuck out of.  And which,

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longhornsftmfw

longhornsftmfw 129

Posted
Posted
I'm not saying someone should burn that house down, but if someone has to burn A house down, that's probably the best one for them to pick.


As someone who escaped from behind the pine curtain, I have to say this story saddens but does not surprise me. Livingston is basically a lake away from Jasper. Vidor isn’t much further south, either. Livingston is just trying to fit in, guys.
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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, David Dennison said:

The president of the United States has been accused by Robert Mueller and the Southern District of New York of being a felon.

It's not a stretch to think that running for re-election is a 50/50 proposition.

We are talking about Trump here. He will be running for reelection even if he is in jail in 2020. 

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 46208

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Nazi Trump fan in Livingston, Texas.  

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/You-really-can-t-ignore-it-Nazi-flags-spotted-14055228.php?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral

Google street view got him rolling into his minivan.  

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.6918472,-94.9273668,3a,75y,204.78h,76.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJayO6nmvnF5CMuyCT4X9HQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 30649

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Trump is changing the basis of Independence Day (celebration of freedom) to a Salute to America (auto-pandering). He will salute America because, under his leadership, the US is great again. Everywhere he goes, people walk up to him, even in foreign countries, to tell him how great they think America is because of him.

9QEIIK.gif

He sees this as his Nuremburg Rally. Military strength on display. All hailing the chief. This little soiree is worse than the monkey circus it's being viewed as. This is another lurch toward facism using the old playbook.

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 18167

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As someone who escaped from behind the pine curtain, I have to say this story saddens but does not surprise me. Livingston is basically a lake away from Jasper. Vidor isn’t much further south, either. Livingston is just trying to fit in, guys.


100% this.
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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Now Ivanka is starting to remind of those SNL skits with Nasim Pedrad as Tippy, the woman at parties who couldn't pick up on any social queues.  

 

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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30799

Posted
Posted
We (myself included) do not have the courage to shun these people socially. 
 


I’m doing my part.

Trump supporters - today Trump supporters - are all traitors to every principle our nation was founded on. They are either deplorables, deeply stupid, or nice but turnip truck falling off gullible fools who only listen to State Media (if at all).

Obviously, there can be Venn diagram overlap.



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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30799

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My older family in the deep South think Houston and Dallas are hellish warzones and they think much worse of DC, NYC, and LA.  There is nothing you can do that will make them change their minds.  

truff


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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30799

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And how do you convince people to listen to their better angels when they actually literally refuse to acknowledge facts?

Because when the leader of the senate publicly says he’ll refuse to follow the rules and 40% of the voters actively refuse to listen to anything that they don’t already believe, I truly don’t know how you fight that.


Fucking THIS!

Folks who want dialogue have a false predicate - that people whose belief system requires a rejection of the very possibility of other facts being valid will listen to better facts in an argument.

It is a waste of time.


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BrickHorn

BrickHorn 18451

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:


Fucking THIS!

Folks who want dialogue have a false predicate - that people whose belief system requires a rejection of the very possibility of other facts being valid will listen to better facts in an argument.

It is a waste of time.


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How ironic.  Y’all criticize my approach on the basis that Trump voters won’t listen to facts, which itself reveals that you haven’t read the words I posted.  

I specifically stated that a fact- or logic-based approach WILL NOT WORK.  That is why I advocate appealing to emotion.  And, in particular, to empathy and compassion.  The key is to show that the Them to which Trump directs his ire includes someone a Trump voter categorizes in the Us group.  

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Mo Horn said:

How do you give away more than 100%?  Obviously I'm not a math genius like he is. 

An in kind donation on top of all current/accrued cash?   Perhaps he gave away 50 hours of free golf lessons to impoverished Koreans at $200/hour?

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

Posted
Posted
Just now, Irwin F Fletcher said:

So he admits he's still running his businesses as President. I'm not a lawyer, but I do believe that's a violation.

Oh, I wouldn’t say it’s been a business, Bob.

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

How ironic.  Y’all criticize my approach on the basis that Trump voters won’t listen to facts, which itself reveals that you haven’t read the words I posted.  

I specifically stated that a fact- or logic-based approach WILL NOT WORK.  That is why I advocate appealing to emotion.  And, in particular, to empathy and compassion.  The key is to show that the Them to which Trump directs his ire includes someone a Trump voter categorizes in the Us group.  

I respect your approach, and I wish you good luck.  But I personally think it will fail, and even backfire, because facts and logic are a necessary predicate to triggering empathy.   The barriers you need to break through are the very rationalizations they've erected to avoid having empathy for the targeted groups.   How will you convince Trump voters to care about the father and daughter who died crossing the border, when the circumstances that drove them to do cross are "fake news," they should have immigrated the "right way," and it's sad but really the father's fault, not Trump's policies?   Facts and logic are the gateway to emotion here. 

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Posted

I imagine their foundation being about as professionally as my other favorite New York foundation, the Susan G Ross Memorial Endowment 

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BrickHorn

BrickHorn 18451

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

I respect your approach, and I wish you good luck.  But I personally think it will fail, and even backfire, because facts and logic are a necessary predicate to triggering empathy.   The barriers you need to break through are the very rationalizations they've erected to avoid having empathy for the targeted groups.   How will you convince Trump voters to care about the father and daughter who died crossing the border, when the circumstances that drove them to do cross are "fake news," they should have immigrated the "right way," and it's sad but really the father's fault, not Trump's policies?   Facts and logic are the gateway to emotion here. 

I don’t intend to use that father and daughter as an example.  Look, I’ve explained this a number of times and reiterating the basic framework over and over again is getting a little old.  The right approach is to identify someone the Trump voter knows personally and cares about who will fall victim to whatever far right policy is being discussed.  It’s easy to be dismissive of pain (and even deny it) when it only impacts an abstract stranger.  But when someone has to face the possibility that a loved one will get hurt, reality has a way of bubbling to the surface.

 Anyway, we all seem to agree that the path of logic and reason isn’t going to work.  The choices seem to be shunning all Trump voters (which gains nothing, and exacerbates the problem) or engaging Trump voters on an emotional level (which at least offers a chance to sway SOME of them).  I believe there are enough reasonably good people who voted for Trump purely out of ignorance and who would be appalled if only they paid attention to make the latter option worthwhile.

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bolverk

bolverk 30376

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

I respect your approach, and I wish you good luck.  But I personally think it will fail, and even backfire, because facts and logic are a necessary predicate to triggering empathy.   The barriers you need to break through are the very rationalizations they've erected to avoid having empathy for the targeted groups.   How will you convince Trump voters to care about the father and daughter who died crossing the border, when the circumstances that drove them to do cross are "fake news," they should have immigrated the "right way," and it's sad but really the father's fault, not Trump's policies?   Facts and logic are the gateway to emotion here. 

csb:

Over the Xmas break this past year, I was at my parents and my dad was approvingly watching a report on Fox News about the migrants.

Me: Something to effect of, "I'm not real proud that our country is treating children this way by putting them in cages. These are human beings..."

Dad: "I'm not so sure about that."

Mom: "Y'all don't get started again!"

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29230

Posted
Posted

eh, i think you need to focus on the process of determining who is and isn't actually "reachable" to begin with.

people withdrawn from politics who are just happy with their 401k and don't want to rock the boat.  maybe they're a little sick of trump popping up too often in their iphone news feed, but purposely don't follow things too closely.

they probably think all the bickering and slandering is typical par-for-the-course partisanship, same as it ever was.  just like the woman in minnesota who had no idea what was in the mueller report.  they need to know how terrible things really are, and how fucking corrupt it has gotten, in every possible way imaginable.

i disagree it's about emotion.  it's about taking those people who aren't paying attention and hitting them with cold, hard, fucking, facts.  you can't "fake-news" your way around facts.

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Irwin F Fletcher said:

So he admits he's still running his businesses as President. I'm not a lawyer, but I do believe that's a violation.

Trump has wiped his ass with the emoluments clause. He's not in violation of the ethics in government act since the President can't be. Ivanka and Jared should be in violation of it though since they are acting high ranking govt officials even if they don't have a title. 

Really though, all this lies on the Senate. Criminals do criminal acts. It's expected.  Trump is doing exactly what you expect him to do.  It's also expected that the police (FBI), prosecutors (House), and court (Senate) are going to actually do their jobs.  Instead it's all set up the same as it is if the Pointe a la Hache Mayor's son gets stopped for a hit and run DUI in Plaquemines Parish. A sheriff's deputy is more likely to execute the victims on site than arrest the mayor's son, and even if he arrests him, the prosecutor won't bring charges, and even if the prosecutor brings charges, the judge is gonna let him walk.  

Edited by FondrenRoad
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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29230

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

When you think literally every news source is fake news, sure you can.  FIL does it.  Which I guess is the same thing as just not paying attention.

certain "facts" i guess, sure.

i told someone (who really doesn't care one way or the other) just about the one sentence from mueller about the sweeping and systematic attack, and they were shocked.  most republicans agree that russians were getting dirty with it, they just won't admit trump's people were in on it.  even the ones currently in prison.  or that it god forbid helped him win.

shit, forget facts.  how about soundbytes.  i would love to see some passive trump supporters who "vote with their pocketbooks" and don't pay much attention forced to sit and watch 15 minutes of trump in interviews and making statements to press.  then read some of his tweets.  hard to spin embarrassing/stupid things he's actually said/tweeted.

it's only a matter of time before all that shit ends up in an ad supporting "anyone but trump".

like in parks and rec when paul rudd was running for city council.  "that video you made, it was mean.  it didn't make me feel good."  to which leslie replies, "that was you.  we just took that video clip from your ad.  that was you talking." 

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

Posted
Posted
How ironic.  Y’all criticize my approach on the basis that Trump voters won’t listen to facts, which itself reveals that you haven’t read the words I posted.  
I specifically stated that a fact- or logic-based approach WILL NOT WORK.  That is why I advocate appealing to emotion.  And, in particular, to empathy and compassion.  The key is to show that the Them to which Trump directs his ire includes someone a Trump voter categorizes in the Us group.  


The truly entrenched Trumpkins have NO empathy.

Their rallying cries are “Fuck your feelings!” and “All this is entertaining because liberal tears!”.

Appealing to them on the basis of the one black guy at work or their maid, Guadalupe doesn’t work for people who don’t care about truth and whose base urge is laughing at other’s suffering.

You can try and appeal to them with a hypothetical scenario like “What about cousin Bobby’s wife Maria? Her parents brought her here when she was a little kid. She’s never broken the law but she could easily be deported to a country she’s never been to because of how she was brought to this country as a child. And now she’s afraid to even try to go and through the process for fear that even trying to do the right thing will still get her deported. How can you still support people who want to do that to Maria?”

And you’ll get brushed off with a “You’re being hysterical! You’re falling for the fake liberal news. She’s one of the ‘good ones’ and if she follows the rules, she’s got nothing to worry about. Trump isn’t going after people here legally.”

When people refuse to acknowledge actual truth and facts all the appeals to emotions will not work. Because they’d have to admit to the reality of the situation to acknowledge the consequences, thus triggering an emotional response.

They’ll brush off any hypothetical situation, even ones involving loves ones, because they refuse to believe in truth.

It’d be like asking them aren’t they worried that Trump’s China policies might cause Chinese dragons to attack their family.

All your emotional appeals are based on fiction as far as they’re concerned.
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elfenix

elfenix 34791

Posted
Posted



watch 15 minutes of trump in interviews and making statements to press.  then read some of his tweets.  hard to spin embarrassing/stupid things he's actually said/tweeted.


No, that video was edited to make him look bad.
/Onboard
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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 107043

Posted
Posted

How successful were the Norwegians at changing the minds of the Quislings, even as the Gestspo was imprisoning and executing their neighbors and countrymen? Not at all.

In fact, the Quislings LIKED it. The Trumpkins aren’t going to be appalled at their neighbors being hauled off - THEY APPLAUD IT.

You are appealing to the emotions of people who have chosen evil. And yes, that’s what they’ve chosen. They’ll deny it. They hate the label. But it’s what they’ve picked. That is where we are now. It is TOO LATE. They are gone. Beyond saving. Which is why the republic is toast. Our BEST case is a country where an opposition party tries to govern a population where 42% of them oppose the very concept of a free and constitutional government and people. There is no winning path left. Just different ways to fail.

Keep fighting. I will. Till the fucking end, because fuck them. But don’t ever fool yourself. They’ve condemned the country to its doom, we just haven’t smashed into the ground yet.

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YChang

YChang 3575

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

eh, i think you need to focus on the process of determining who is and isn't actually "reachable" to begin with.

people withdrawn from politics who are just happy with their 401k and don't want to rock the boat.  maybe they're a little sick of trump popping up too often in their iphone news feed, but purposely don't follow things too closely.

they probably think all the bickering and slandering is typical par-for-the-course partisanship, same as it ever was.  just like the woman in minnesota who had no idea what was in the mueller report.  they need to know how terrible things really are, and how fucking corrupt it has gotten, in every possible way imaginable.

i disagree it's about emotion.  it's about taking those people who aren't paying attention and hitting them with cold, hard, fucking, facts.  you can't "fake-news" your way around facts.

Human beings man... we're not that logical unfortunately . Relying on only cold hard facts doesn't work.

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BrickHorn

BrickHorn 18451

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

 


The truly entrenched Trumpkins have NO empathy.

Their rallying cries are “Fuck your feelings!” and “All this is entertaining because liberal tears!”.

Appealing to them on the basis of the one black guy at work or their maid, Guadalupe doesn’t work for people who don’t care about truth and whose base urge is laughing at other’s suffering.

You can try and appeal to them with a hypothetical scenario like “What about cousin Bobby’s wife Maria? Her parents brought her here when she was a little kid. She’s never broken the law but she could easily be deported to a country she’s never been to because of how she was brought to this country as a child. And now she’s afraid to even try to go and through the process for fear that even trying to do the right thing will still get her deported. How can you still support people who want to do that to Maria?”

And you’ll get brushed off with a “You’re being hysterical! You’re falling for the fake liberal news. She’s one of the ‘good ones’ and if she follows the rules, she’s got nothing to worry about. Trump isn’t going after people here legally.”

When people refuse to acknowledge actual truth and facts all the appeals to emotions will not work. Because they’d have to admit to the reality of the situation to acknowledge the consequences, thus triggering an emotional response.

They’ll brush off any hypothetical situation, even ones involving loves ones, because they refuse to believe in truth.

It’d be like asking them aren’t they worried that Trump’s China policies might cause Chinese dragons to attack their family.

All your emotional appeals are based on fiction as far as they’re concerned.

 

God dammit.  Who said anyone should try to reason with “truly entrenched Trumpkins?”  Not me, that’s for damned sure.

Y’all are pursuing strategies based on all-or-nothing bullshit.  Defeating Trumpism does not require 100% conversion.  All that is necessary to prevent a fascist takeover is a critical mass of sufficient size and courage.  You just need enough people to oppose oppression to prevent it from taking root.  

What that number is exactly, I have no idea.  It’s more than a majority but far less than 100%. The reason Brisket and his chicken little squad are so convinced we’re done for isn’t because 35% of the population are would-be fascists.  It’s because 49% of the population has been willing to support an asshole.   My point is this: that leaves 14% who could possibly be converted to stand against far right aggression.  And that’s probably enough.  Hell, even half that would probably do the trick (at least while we still have real elections).

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, BrickHorn said:

I don’t intend to use that father and daughter as an example.  Look, I’ve explained this a number of times and reiterating the basic framework over and over again is getting a little old.  The right approach is to identify someone the Trump voter knows personally and cares about who will fall victim to whatever far right policy is being discussed.  It’s easy to be dismissive of pain (and even deny it) when it only impacts an abstract stranger.  But when someone has to face the possibility that a loved one will get hurt, reality has a way of bubbling to the surface.

 Anyway, we all seem to agree that the path of logic and reason isn’t going to work.  The choices seem to be shunning all Trump voters (which gains nothing, and exacerbates the problem) or engaging Trump voters on an emotional level (which at least offers a chance to sway SOME of them).  I believe there are enough reasonably good people who voted for Trump purely out of ignorance and who would be appalled if only they paid attention to make the latter option worthwhile.

And what if none of their loved ones will be hurt, or at least you can't prove it without relying on "fake news"?   Right now I'm thinking of my wife's Trump-supporting cousin.   I can't think of a single person he'd care about who will be directly harmed, where he wouldn't blame it on something attributable to Dems somewhere along the line.   What should I tell him? 

And I don't think shunning voters gains nothing or exacerbates the problem.  I think it puts enormous social pressure on them and makes them choose between the nuts they are with now or reasonable, intelligent society.   If people could join the Klan without being turned into pariahs, a hell of a lot more people would be in the Klan.   Shun them and the ones who are reachable will make the right choice. 

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BrickHorn

BrickHorn 18451

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Mojo Hand said:

And what if none of their loved ones will be hurt, or at least you can't prove it without relying on "fake news"?   Right now I'm thinking of my wife's Trump-supporting cousin.   I can't think of a single person he'd care about who will be directly harmed, where he wouldn't blame it on something attributable to Dems somewhere along the line.   What should I tell him? 

And I don't think shunning voters gains nothing or exacerbates the problem.  I think it puts enormous social pressure on them and makes them choose between the nuts they are with now or reasonable, intelligent society.   If people could join the Klan without being turned into pariahs, a hell of a lot more people would be in the Klan.   Shun them and the ones who are reachable will make the right choice. 

Shunning Trump voters has done nothing more than solidify his support.  Just look at the impact of Hillary’s “basket of deplorables” comment.  It backfired like a motherfucker.  

And, again, y’all are focusing on hard core Trumpists.  They are hopeless.  Fuck them.  Focus your energy on begrudging Trump voters.  The ones who dislike him but disliked Hillary more, the single-issue abortion voter, the “I don’t pay attention to politics, but he seems like a smart businessman” voter.  Those are your potential converts.  Those are the folks you need to sway to get past this threat to the American Republic.

Edited by BrickHorn
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