Donald Trump 2019

Spankytoes · July 17, 2019

10 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Who said being white makes you a racist?

I think people are saying that talking and acting like a racist makes you a racist.

And I'm saying that "racist" has become a broad definition term that is catered to fit any microaggression the accuser sees fit.

Mojo Hand · July 17, 2019

10 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

And I'm saying that "racist" has become a broad definition term that is catered to fit any microaggression the accuser sees fit.

To the extent "racist" has been generally broadened, it's been to include other similarly despicable forms of bigotry and discrimination, like based on religion, ethnicity, or national origin. But unless the conversation is one in which race is relevant in a distinct way, it's a mere semantic argument that misses the point. Sure, there are always people who misuse any term, but for the most part the complaints about misusing this one are disingenuous.

Of course, that is all beside the point with respect to Trump, as his comments were racist within the commonly accepted meaning of the term.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Mojo Hand

Brisketexan · July 17, 2019

10 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

And I'm saying that "racist" has become a broad definition term that is catered to fit any microaggression the accuser sees fit.

And reasoning just like yours is used to excuse example after example of racism. In fact, by using that reasoning, one can NEVER discuss racism at all. Because the defense is always "you're using a broad definition term unfairly."

Trump could say "all N-words should just go back to Africa," and the exact same defense would 1) be used, and 2) completely accepted as total vindication by the same folks who do so now.

The Trump crowd cannot be convinced of any fact or truth that would run contrary to the vision of Trump as an infallible God-king. There's no point in even trying.

cactusflinthead · July 17, 2019

Just in case anyone has any remaining questions about the use of "Go back to your country" as anything other than a slur.

Here's what it looks like on the street

hayden_horn · July 17, 2019

5 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

I agree that a consequence of his actions will be, and already have been, that his followers will act more racist and sexist. I’ve already seen that his election.

Whether people just feel like they have cover to say what they’ve always thought or whether they are actually emulating him and changing to follow their leader, I don’t actually know. Trump may be a terrible leader, but for whatever reason they chose him and he really is leading his followers. In any event, I used to be someone who thought racism in 21st century America wasn’t a big problem and things like “toxic masculinity” were made up nonsense, but Trumpkins have done an amazing job at showing me I was wrong. I’ve seen casual racism, sexism, homophobia, the ridiculous “alpha” and “cucks” type speech, etc., pop up more and more, sometimes even in professional settings where I’d never have dreamed anyone would do something like that. It’s not just Trump and internet trolls, but also many real people that have given me a really sad awakening.

Having said that, and you kind of alluded to this, I don’t think Trump is doing any of this as part of a calculated scheme, not even the gaslighting. Every report about his administration confirms he is every bit as dumb as he appears to anyone who isn’t a cult member. After he won the nomination, he talked to Karl Rove and was shocked that Rove told him he should campaign in the general election in states like Iowa instead of New York, California, and Oregon. Trump’s argument was he won the Republican primaries in NY, California and Oregon, so therefore he would win those states in the general. And he lost the Iowa caucus in the primary, so he was shocked Rove told him he could win Iowa in the general.

Trump is the most simplistically self-absorbed man imaginable. He has no concept of anything other than his own experiences, desires and emotions. I think he literally just sees a headline he doesn’t like about the Squad criticizing him, and he goes in. He’s like the senile old men we all know who watch Fox News to get angry about something and grumble, except he’s also a pathological narcissist and the President. There is no thought or strategy to any of his old man yelling at clouds bullshit.

i heard an interesting analysis. i think it was on the jeff ward show yesterday. basically, he opined that trump is a prisoner to his audience. he'll do whatever he thinks necessary to get a positive reaction from his base. that means positive reactions on twitter and fox, and from partisan republicans. because he enjoys a 90%ish rate of approval among republicans (which i think is a sign of the republican party shrinking, but that's for another post), he continues to stir the pot with that base, with his rhetoric testing the fences, as it were. so far, he's been able to get more and more extreme and still go unpunished. so he keeps going.

so it goes.

Chooky · July 17, 2019

24 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

i never understood why people use the shine box as a shit talking example of finality.

billy batts ended up beaten within an inch of his life, then stabbed to death in a trunk, then put in a shallow grave, exhumed and reburied somewhere else.

BUT HE SURE SHOWED TOMMY.

My favorite usage of that phrase ever was when rocko, clearly having no idea about the 'Good Fellas' reference, hurled it at a poster on shaggy. "Now go shine your shoes!"

Longhorn_Fan68 · July 17, 2019

so we're debating the finer points of racism now? this country is fucked until the olds and uneducated die off.

Pancho · July 17, 2019

1 minute ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

so we're debating the finer points of racism now? this country is fucked until the olds and uneducated die off.

There’s nothing more exhausting as a person of color when people who aren’t of color try to tell POC what is and isn’t racist.

Spankytoes · July 17, 2019

21 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And reasoning just like yours is used to excuse example after example of racism. In fact, by using that reasoning, one can NEVER discuss racism at all. Because the defense is always "you're using a broad definition term unfairly."

Trump could say "all N-words should just go back to Africa," and the exact same defense would 1) be used, and 2) completely accepted as total vindication by the same folks who do so now.

The Trump crowd cannot be convinced of any fact or truth that would run contrary to the vision of Trump as an infallible God-king. There's no point in even trying.

I don’t agree with that at all.

If Trump said that, it would be a CLEAR indication of racism. I’m not sure where you are getting your data to the contrary from. I can’t speak for Trump supporters as a whole as I am not part of the club.

Racism, in the parlance that I am referring to, is any transgression against a POC by a non-POC. The root of the disagreement or action itself is racist simply because of skin tones. Suggesting otherwise is also racist because it apparently implies that racism doesn’t exist and the situation is being viewed through a prism of privilege. This, of course, is a one-way street for accusations. The mere symptom of “it could be racist” overshadows any decorum for rational discussion.

DDD Dad · July 17, 2019

2 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

I don’t agree with that at all.

If Trump said that, it would be a CLEAR indication of racism. I’m not sure where you are getting your data to the contrary from. I can’t speak for Trump supporters as a whole as I am not part of the club.

Racism, in the parlance that I am referring to, is any transgression against a POC by a non-POC. The root of the disagreement or action itself is racist simply because of skin tones. Suggesting otherwise is also racist because it apparently implies that racism doesn’t exist and the situation is being viewed through a prism of privilege. This, of course, is a one-way street for accusations. The mere symptom of “it could be racist” overshadows any decorum for rational discussion.

Broaden that to ethnicity (not strictly skin color) and you are describing precisely what Trump said.

Just ask Kellyanne Conway. She'll ask you your ethnicity in response.

softlynow · July 17, 2019

2 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

Racism, in the parlance that I am referring to, is any transgression against a POC by a non-POC. The root of the disagreement or action itself is racist simply because of skin tones. Suggesting otherwise is also racist because it apparently implies that racism doesn’t exist and the situation is being viewed through a prism of privilege. This, of course, is a one-way street for accusations. The mere symptom of “it could be racist” overshadows any decorum for rational discussion.

While the above is true at times, it isn't here, and is irrelevant in a discussion of DOTUS crisis of the week episode 127.

lemonlime · July 17, 2019

4 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

Racism, in the parlance that I am referring to, is any transgression against a POC by a non-POC. The root of the disagreement or action itself is racist simply because of skin tones. Suggesting otherwise is also racist because it apparently implies that racism doesn’t exist and the situation is being viewed through a prism of privilege. This, of course, is a one-way street for accusations. The mere symptom of “it could be racist” overshadows any decorum for rational discussion.

is there a reason you bring this up in a thread about the president tweeting clearly racist things and then doubling down on them? Do you think trump's tweet telling four female members of congress, all with brown skin, to go back to their home countries was not racist, and just happened to be a transgression against POC?

Chooky · July 17, 2019

7 minutes ago, Pancho said:

There’s nothing more exhausting as a person of color when people who aren’t of color try to tell POC what is and isn’t racist.

But what if the person leads with telling you how much they like rap music and the NBA?

Brisketexan · July 17, 2019

4 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

I don’t agree with that at all.

If Trump said that, it would be a CLEAR indication of racism. I’m not sure where you are getting your data to the contrary from. I can’t speak for Trump supporters as a whole as I am not part of the club.

And what he said about the Congresswomen is literally defined as racist (well, "national-origin-ist") by the EEOC and has been for a long time in the context of addressing discrimination and actionable workplace harassment based on national origin:

Quote

“Examples of potentially unlawful conduct include insults, taunting, or ethnic epithets, such as making fun of a person’s foreign accent or comments like, ‘Go back to where you came from,’ whether made by supervisors or co-workers,”

So, our problem is....even when Turmp DOES say something that is CLEARLY racist.....we get the excuse that you trotted out. So, the truth remains, he could tell all black people to go back to Africa, and it wouldn't even move the needle. Wait, that's wrong. It would IMPROVE his approval among his base (as the recent "go back where you came from" remarks have done).

There's nothing he can say or do that will be accepted as "racist" by his cult. Nothing.

Lagunamadre · July 17, 2019

2 hours ago, Bruh Man said:

The MAGA Stepford Wives of Dallas chime in on Trump's comments.

"I came here to do two things, drink buttery chardonnay and share political memes on Facebook, looks like we're all out of buttery chardonnay"

retread · July 17, 2019

Still haven't heard which statements by the four women were vile, hateful, disgusting, horrible, anti-USA, pro-terrorist? Which comments are those?

Quote

″The Democratic Congresswomen have been spewing some of the most vile, hateful, and disgusting things ever said by a politician in the House or Senate,” wrote Trump, who also has falsely accused former President Barack Obama of founding the so-called Islamic State and who propelled the racist birther movement against him.

“Horrible, anti-Israel, anti-USA, pro-terrorist & public ... shouting of the F...word, among many other terrible things,” the president continued. “Why isn’t the House voting to rebuke the filthy and hate laced things they have said?”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-democratic-congresswomen-tweets_n_5d2db8fbe4b02fd71dda4a3d

jimmyjazz · July 17, 2019

3 hours ago, Mojo Hand said:

I know Republicans have made their bones on using sophistry to hide racism under pretext, but sometimes a particularly stupid Republican goes so far that you can't hide behind the disingenuous claim that, "durr, you can't prove to a certainty that he thinks whites are superior to other races or that he was prejudging someone based on their race!!!"

BUT, you can prove that Obama is a stupid communist Kenyan because he said "57" when he meant "47". QED.

Edited July 17, 2019 by jimmyjazz

TornACL · July 17, 2019

I always enjoy the dipshits who argue that because a lot of people cry wolf about racism, that means most accusations of racism are bullshit.

Fucking apologists.

The really embarrassing thing is that the sycophants are out in force exhausting themselves in defense of this week's comments, but the comments aren't even among the top 20 most offensive, vile, or racist things this ignorant loudmouth boor has said as president.

Biff Tannen · July 17, 2019

Re: Spanky upset about white people being called racist for no reason - I'm white and I don't consider myself racist, nor have I ever, to my knowledge been accused of being racist. Mainly because I don't say and do racist things. It's not that hard. I'm not sure where all these people are living where they are constantly accused of being racist without saying and doing racist things. Must just be bad luck.

Hank Kingsley · July 17, 2019

2 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Same group of Republican women defended Trump regarding Stormy Daniels:

CNN's dream scenario/plan is to rile up Democrats, throw a lifeline and give exposure to Trumpkins, and Dotard winning again in 2020. Once that is realized, everything else makes sense.

Longhorn_Fan68 · July 17, 2019

Fucking libcuck judges:

Hank Kingsley · July 17, 2019

"Alcala? What country are you from?"

Chooky · July 17, 2019

As a white dude, I have friends who don't believe they're racist and are actually offended by the accusation. But they are. They say ignorant shit but they only consider screaming malicious slurs at people as "racist." It's infuriating even when you try to point out a massive, simplistic generalization. They pull the "yer just too PC card." It's somewhat encouraging that they abhor being viewed as racist. Then they explain how "black people like grape" and you want to peel their face off.

Hugo Stiglitz · July 17, 2019

52 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

i heard an interesting analysis. i think it was on the jeff ward show yesterday. basically, he opined that trump is a prisoner to his audience. he'll do whatever he thinks necessary to get a positive reaction from his base. that means positive reactions on twitter and fox, and from partisan republicans. because he enjoys a 90%ish rate of approval among republicans (which i think is a sign of the republican party shrinking, but that's for another post), he continues to stir the pot with that base, with his rhetoric testing the fences, as it were. so far, he's been able to get more and more extreme and still go unpunished. so he keeps going.

so it goes.

I also think Stephen Miller is the Rasputin dotard whisperer in this administration. No way that guy can be a positive influence on Trump.

DDD Dad · July 17, 2019

1 minute ago, Chooky said:

Then they explain how "black people like grape" and you want to peel their face off.

Who doesn't?

jimmyjazz · July 17, 2019

1 hour ago, Spankytoes said:

I'm a registered Democrat with no plans to vote for Trump. Otherwise, spot on.

But you reserve the right to change your mind, you know, if new information comes to light.

hayden_horn · July 17, 2019

6 minutes ago, Chooky said:

As a white dude, I have friends who don't believe they're racist and are actually offended by the accusation. But they are. They say ignorant shit but they only consider screaming malicious slurs at people as "racist." It's infuriating even when you try to point out a massive, simplistic generalization. They pull the "yer just too PC card." It's somewhat encouraging that they abhor being viewed as racist. Then they explain how "black people like grape" and you want to peel their face off.

my dad was pretty unabashedly bigoted. i heard every racial slur growing up.

but he loved him some chris rock. time and again i had to try and tell him he couldn't repeat chris rock jokes, because he wasn't black.

"but he said it, so it's okay."

no, dad.

"anyways, he's one of the good ones, he gets it."

FACEPALM

but i still hear white people doing what my dad did in the late 90s, even telling some of the same chris rock jokes, as though they are woke to life as a black person. no, white person, you can't do chris rock's n-word bit, even if you edit it down.

Edited July 17, 2019 by hayden_horn

Chad Fuck · July 17, 2019

2 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

The Dallas exurbs really do suck.

Quoted for mother fucking truth.

Hugo Stiglitz · July 17, 2019

4 minutes ago, Chooky said:

As a white dude, I have friends who don't believe they're racist and are actually offended by the accusation. But they are. They say ignorant shit but they only consider screaming malicious slurs at people as "racist." It's infuriating even when you try to point out a massive, simplistic generalization. They pull the "yer just too PC card." It's somewhat encouraging that they abhor being viewed as racist. Then they explain how "black people like grape" and you want to peel their face off.

Oddly enough I once worked with an old white lady that would openly let (white) people know she was a racist, and this was in 2014 before Trump won. She would say, "Oh, and by the way, I'm racist as fuck." Total sociopath, but this is in Louisiana.

jimmyjazz · July 17, 2019

1 hour ago, Spankytoes said:

And I'm saying that "racist" has become a broad definition term that is catered to fit any microaggression the accuser sees fit.

Nah. "Racist" means what it's always meant -- a racist is a person who doesn't like or feels superior to persons of other races. This is pretty fucking simple. The thing is, Trump has pulled back the cover and emboldened the racists, of whom there are many.

Your gaslighting doesn't work here.

Chooky · July 17, 2019

Anybody have white friends who instantly start talking slightly black the moment a black guy shows up? All of the sudden this motherfucker starts ending his sentences with "dawg."

retread · July 17, 2019

1 hour ago, hayden_horn said:

i heard an interesting analysis. i think it was on the jeff ward show yesterday. basically, he opined that trump is a prisoner to his audience. he'll do whatever he thinks necessary to get a positive reaction from his base.

Similarly, we are all prisoner to his presidency. Nothing gets done in DC. Congress has ground to a halt. Days are spent defending or criticizing his tweets. Some committees try to cajole witnesses to appear only to be told to go pound sand.

It's all about Cheeto getting to throw shit on whatever wall he wants today, and it's all about his self-preservation -- meaning re-election to avoid prosecution.

mdmost · July 17, 2019

1 hour ago, Spankytoes said:

I'm a registered Democrat with no plans to vote for Trump. Otherwise, spot on.

You mean you won't vote for him this time? 😀

SmokeyTheBear · July 17, 2019

49 minutes ago, Chooky said:

But what if the person leads with telling you how much they like rap music and the NBA?

"Look at my African-American over there"

seven · July 17, 2019

16 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

my dad was pretty unabashedly bigoted. i heard every racial slur growing up.

but he loved him some chris rock. time and again i had to try and tell him he couldn't repeat chris rock jokes, because he wasn't black.

"but he said it, so it's okay."

no, dad.

"anyways, he's one of the good ones, he gets it."

FACEPALM

but i still hear white people doing what my dad did in the late 90s, even telling some of the same chris rock jokes, as though they are woke to life as a black person. no, white person, you can't do chris rock's n-word bit, even if you edit it down.

jimmyjazz · July 17, 2019

1 hour ago, Spankytoes said:

Racism, in the parlance that I am referring to, is any transgression against a POC by a non-POC.

So if a white guy breaks into a black guy's car and steals his iPhone, that's racist? (What if he steals his Beats?)

I don't think you've thought this through. You're shooting from the hip, most likely because of not-insignificant twinge of white guilt, but hey, maybe I'm projecting.

DixonHur · July 17, 2019

17 minutes ago, Chooky said:

Anybody have white friends who instantly start talking slightly black the moment a black guy shows up? All of the sudden this motherfucker starts ending his sentences with "dawg."

Don't forget the awkward fist bumps and missed high fives

jimmyjazz · July 17, 2019

19 minutes ago, Chooky said:

Anybody have white friends who instantly start talking slightly black the moment a black guy shows up? All of the sudden this motherfucker starts ending his sentences with "dawg."

Worse than that, I get accused of "being pitchy, dawg".

Chad Fuck · July 17, 2019

1 hour ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

so we're debating the finer points of racism now? this country is fucked until the olds and uneducated die off.

That's not gonna do it, brah.

tantric superman · July 17, 2019

32 minutes ago, Chooky said:

Anybody have white friends who instantly start talking slightly black the moment a black guy shows up? All of the sudden this motherfucker starts ending his sentences with "dawg."

Chad Fuck · July 17, 2019

13 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Don't forget the awkward fist bumps and missed high fives

Hang on a minute. I do that to everyone.

texastough · July 17, 2019

1 hour ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

this country is fucked until the olds and uneducated die off.

not sure that's how it works

Chooky · July 17, 2019

That little faggot doesn't know how to make lemonade and clearly doesn't understand seasonal supply and demand. Deport his little non entrepreneurial ass. Skilled labor only.

Chooky · July 17, 2019

2 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

Hang on a minute. I do that to everyone.

Me too. If you lead with a fist I'll inevitably shake your fist like paper covering rock. I won't acknowledge it, either. I'll just move on like you're the one who fucked it up.

Chooky · July 17, 2019

J to the R.O.C.

Chad Fuck · July 17, 2019

4 minutes ago, Chooky said:

Me too. If you lead with a fist I'll inevitably shake your fist like paper covering rock. I won't acknowledge it, either. I'll just move on like you're the one who fucked it up.

Surly secret shake.

JimmyJames · July 17, 2019

55 minutes ago, Chooky said:

As a white dude, I have friends who don't believe they're racist and are actually offended by the accusation. But they are. They say ignorant shit but they only consider screaming malicious slurs at people as "racist." It's infuriating even when you try to point out a massive, simplistic generalization. They pull the "yer just too PC card." It's somewhat encouraging that they abhor being viewed as racist. Then they explain how "black people like grape" and you want to peel their face off.

Black people like grapes? That’s a new one to me.

henrygandorf · July 17, 2019

1 hour ago, longhornmatt said:

He definitely says whatever he thinks his audience at that moment wants to hear without much further thinking going into it. But I don’t think he’s a prisoner to a particular audience made up of his voters. He knows they’re in his pocket - he even said the famous “I could shoot someone on 5th Avenue line” before he was even elected because he knew then he had his marks reeled in hook, line and sinker.

this line of thinking has been floating around. probably in response to people who won't directly call him a racist because "they don't know what's in his heart" or some garbage.

but i'll say this. if someone close to him told me that trump was not a racist. but he knows exactly how to act like one. and he knows when he needs to act like one to rile up his base. and that he's pushing buttons because being called a racist is way better (to him) than actually losing an election. i would think there's some truth there.

kushner even came out in an interview and said that trump long knew that obama was born in america, but kept on because he knew the right loved it.

this guy will do whatever it takes to get votes. and i would say that is way more dangerous than just being "a racist".

Brisketexan · July 17, 2019

2 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Black people like grapes? That’s a new one to me.

Sure. And Trump has got their vote locked up...

Biff Tannen · July 17, 2019

1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

this line of thinking has been floating around. probably in response to people who won't directly call him a racist because "they don't know what's in his heart" or some garbage.

but i'll say this. if someone close to him told me that trump was not a racist. but he knows exactly how to act like one. and he knows when he needs to act like one to rile up his base. and that he's pushing buttons because being called a racist is way better (to him) than actually losing an election. i would think there's some truth there.

kushner even came out in an interview and said that trump long knew that obama was born in america, but kept on because he knew the right loved it.

this guy will do whatever it takes to get votes. and i would say that is way more dangerous than just being "a racist".

Does it really matter? Acting racist, whether it is to further an agenda or not, makes you racist. I don't really give a shit if it's what your soul or whatever really feels.

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