Donald Trump 2019

[GhostOfTomJoad 9508]

Now I would SERIOUSLY consider buying a "10 times, 15 times Flusher for Trump" t-shirt if one existed. 

[hornhorn 100]

11 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Jesus Christ, do some fucking homework.  I have no doubt it's worse now than in 2010, but let's just run with this.  (In case you can't handle math, that's 5.8X more incarcerated black Americans per capita than white Americans.)

Jesus Christ, if all crime mirrors anything close to the homicide rate, it makes sense doesn't it? And I'll bring up blacks because you brought them up.  Blacks with 12% of the population commit more homicides in the US at (51%) than rest of the races all combined. Since you are great at Math, go ahead and do it. Yeah, about that homework, you should do it. 

 

Source: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-2.xls

Edited December 6, 2019 by hornhorn

[wildcat09 29579]

Just now, hornhorn said:

Jesus Christ, if all crime mirrors anything close to the homicide rate, it makes sense doesn't it? And I'll bring up blacks because you brought them up.  Blacks with 12% of the population commit more homicides in the US at (51%) than rest of the races all combined. Since you are great at Math, go ahead and do it. Yeah, about that homework, you should do it. 

Lol. The guy with black crime stats at the ready was totally not talking about race, you guys.

[hornhorn 100]

Just now, wildcat09 said:

Lol. The guy with black crime stats at the ready was totally not talking about race, you guys.

You should try using this amazing website called Google. I'm not sure if its a fad, but its awesome at providing information at your fingertips. 

Also, the fact that you weren't aware of this explains your ignorance. But don't keep that from educating yourself. 

[Winona's Big Orange Bevo 198]

18 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

What high interest and fees? Payment plans are basically your fine divided into several monthly payments. Zero fines and interest unless you CHOOSE not to pay on time. But yeah, that again is someone else's fault. System, yes.

So now we're moving on from traffic offenses to other "minor" drug and alcohol offenses. I'm not white so spare me your white guilt bullshit as I've dealt with racists before, its life, it happens. Sometimes people are racists, some of those people are cops, do you know the best way to avoid it? Oh I know, maybe stay away from drugs especially since its drilled into you since kindergarten. But oh no, again its someone else's fault that I got caught with drugs even though I was reminded of staying away from it since I gained consciousness.

Poor people do have a lower margin for error but so do the rest of us in different forms. All of us come with some predisposed issues in life, genetic at times that cannot be avoided. I come from a family with heart problems so I have to watch out on my consumption of red meat. But if I continue to eat burgers everyday and drop dead at 45, its me, not the system. Similarly if you're poor, maybe stay away from illegal drugs that you know could land you in trouble because you don't have the bandwidth to deal with it. 

I'm not saying that they shouldn't be poor and shit. But I am saying that if you're poor maybe avoid shit that is avoidable. Getting speeding tickets and drugs are those things. And if you do get caught doing that shit, don't point to how someone else gets away with it because they can throw money at lawyers. You knew you couldn't and still chose to do it, now pay the fucking price for it. 

You should really spend some time in a school working with kids and you'll realize very quickly that just choosing to do the right thing isn't that simple. These adults making stupid decisions were once kids who didn't have adults in their lives to teach them not to make stupid decisions. I am frustrated daily with kids who are on a path to ruining their lives because they are making bad decisions because they've been raised to be fuck ups. I wish just telling them to make better life choices would straighten them out but it doesn't. How do you avoid something that is against you from birth?  I'm not making excuses for bad decisions but we should have as many outreached hands as we can ready to pull them up when they are ready to grab hold. Some are lost causes but what are we going to do, let them rot? Shoot them?

[elfenix 34749]

Old pipes at the White House plus Trump's garbage diet and I can see needing to flush 10-15x

[Dahobbs 18317]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

Lol. The guy with black crime stats at the ready was totally not talking about race, you guys.

Yeah, weird how he doesn't see the connection between poverty, crime, and race or how systemic issues related to the latter guarantee  exposure to the former. 

[hornhorn 100]

Just now, Winona's Big Orange Bevo said:

You should really spend some time in a school working with kids and you'll realize very quickly that just choosing to do the right thing isn't that simple. These adults making stupid decisions were once kids who didn't have adults in their lives to teach them not to make stupid decisions. I am frustrated daily with kids who are on a path to ruining their lives because they are making bad decisions because they've been raised to be fuck ups. I wish just telling them to make better life choices would straighten them out but it doesn't. How do you avoid something that is against you from birth?  I'm not making excuses for bad decisions but we should have as many outreached hands as we can ready to pull them up when they are ready to grab hold. Some are lost causes but what are we going to do, let them rot? Shoot them?

I agree with you there. But remember we do give a very very long leash to people who are young or are first time offenders. 

But at some point you have to learn that you cannot repeat the same mistakes over and over and over. And if you do, must pay for it. 

Let me ask you then, what should we do to people who continue to drive 30 over in a residential zone over and over and over? Let them go because they're poor? 

[Winona's Big Orange Bevo 198]

6 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

Jesus Christ, if all crime mirrors anything close to the homicide rate, it makes sense doesn't it? And I'll bring up blacks because you brought them up.  Blacks with 12% of the population commit more homicides in the US at (51%) than rest of the races all combined. Since you are great at Math, go ahead and do it. Yeah, about that homework, you should do it. 

I'm waiting with great anticipation for your explanation as to why.

 

Source: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-2.xls

 

[wildcat09 29579]

1 minute ago, hornhorn said:

You should try using this amazing website called Google. I'm not sure if its a fad, but its awesome at providing information at your fingertips. 

Also, the fact that you weren't aware of this explains your ignorance. But don't keep that from educating yourself. 

Aware of what? Your graphic won't load.

[jimmyjazz 47148]

6 minutes ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

Now I would SERIOUSLY consider buying a "10 times, 15 times Flusher for Trump" t-shirt if one existed. 

Just to put a point on Donald's lunacy, for an Austin family of 4, assuming 5 bathroom visits per day per person, 15X flushing would result in an EXCESS consumption of 448 gallons per day over 1X flushers, assuming 1.6 gallon low-flow toilets.  Based on residential water rates, this would equate to 13,626 EXCESS gallons of water used each month.  If this family were to not use a SINGLE DROP of water beyond this amount (which doesn't even account for the first flush, not to mention any other use of water), it would cost that family an extra $129.82 per month, or $1,558 per year.  These numbers just go up when you account for normal bathing, cooking, laundry uses.

Not happening, Donald.

I know, anal retentive post alert, but I hate bullshit like this.

[UTCzech III 2934]

28 minutes ago, Irwin F Fletcher said:

What a time to be alive. Thank God we've got a President concerned about his throne.

 

 

[hornhorn 100]

 

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

Aware of what? Your graphic won't load.

Use a device made in this century grandpa. 

[elfenix 34749]

Just now, hornhorn said:

 

Use a device made in this century grandpa. 

imgur doesn't work on this board, dumbass.

[wildcat09 29579]

Just now, hornhorn said:

 

Use a device made in this century grandpa. 

 

Just now, elfenix said:

imgur doesn't work on this board, dumbass.

[hornhorn 100]

5 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Yeah, weird how he doesn't see the connection between poverty, crime, and race or how systemic issues related to the latter guarantee  exposure to the former. 

Bangladesh as a country has a population of 150 million people which is 4.5 times African American population in the US. 

By any and every metric they are poorer than African Americans. Average wage of a Bangladeshi citizen is $720/year. Average wage of an African American in the US is $30,314/year.

Bangladesh had a total of 3549 homicides 2017. African Americans by themselves had 7851, more than twice that in the US.

Explain to me how poverty, crime and race is connected here. Go ahead.

[hornhorn 100]

5 minutes ago, elfenix said:

imgur doesn't work on this board, dumbass.

Then just click on the source provided under it dumbass.

[Brisketexan 106886]

Look, what's important here is that we know we have a population of poor people, so we need to do as much as we can to make sure they stay that way.

I mean, that makes LOADS more sense than actually being deliberate about enacting policies that don't create roadblocks to poor folks being self-sustaining and being able to take care of themselves and....maybe....even advancing their way out of poverty.

There are studies, articles, etc., out the ass, about how even the best, hardest-working poor person, is susceptible to ONE mistake, ONE bad break, and it all comes crashing down.  She's busting her ass, taking classes at community college, working two jobs to make a better life for her and her kid, with $10 left over at the end of the month....but she's late to class one day and gets busted for speeding (yeah, hold her to a higher standard than the rest of us - "well, she shouldn't do that!").  Or maybe she is at a friend's BBQ one Sunday afternoon on a rare day off, and gets caught up in the laughs and good times, and has that 4th glass of wine when she should have stopped at 3.  And walking home....she gets busted and taken in for PI (again, no way a fine upstanding college person like US would do such a thing, no way!).

She's done.  It's over.  And your fantasy world of "payments plans" and whatnot -- some places do that. MANY do not.  That $500 fine is the end of her chance to improve herself.  She can't pay it.  She goes delinquent.  Interest stacks up.  She REALLY can't pay it.  Her license gets suspended.  No more community college classes.  No more jobs she has to drive to.  But hey, what's important is that YOU REALLY SHOWED HER.  Yep, condemning someone to a life of desperation and perpetual poverty to make a point, well, that's just GENIUS.  What a productive thing for us to do as a society!  Why, you should get a goddamned Nobel Prize for your brilliance.  Surely, THIS approach will cure all of our ills!

Wait....what's that....we've been doing that.....and all the evidence demonstrates that it actually INCREASES poverty and desperation?  Huh....bummer.

[Incredulity 11876]

Progressive fine rates bases on family wealth./BT

The lowest rates will be negative.

 

whats the worst that could happen?

Edited December 6, 2019 by Incredulity

[Winona's Big Orange Bevo 198]

6 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

I agree with you there. But remember we do give a very very long leash to people who are young or are first time offenders. 

But at some point you have to learn that you cannot repeat the same mistakes over and over and over. And if you do, must pay for it. 

Let me ask you then, what should we do to people who continue to drive 30 over in a residential zone over and over and over? Let them go because they're poor? 

I don't think anyone is arguing that the poor should be able to get away with breaking laws. However, punishments affect people differently. People who can't make bail for a nonviolent crime that would be pretty simple for most, shouldn't have to suffer long term ruin ( lost jobs, etc.) What affects society more, a $300 bail or the person out of work?

[Dahobbs 18317]

Just now, hornhorn said:

Bangladesh as a country has a population of 150 million people which is 4.5 times African American population in the US. 

By any and every metric they are poorer than African Americans. Average wage of a Bangladeshi citizen is $720/year. Average wage of an African American in the US is $30,314/year.

Bangladesh had a total of 3549 homicides 2017. African Americans by themselves had 7851, more than twice that in the US.

Explain to me how poverty, crime and race is connected here. Go ahead.

Uh... you're comparing different countries?  Also, fun fact about your stat, it is counting the number of victims not perpetrators.  It says so right at the top of the table: "Murder Victims by Age, Sex, Race, and Ethnicity, 2017." In short, you are a fucking idiot. 

 

[Brisketexan 106886]

4 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

Bangladesh as a country has a population of 150 million people which is 4.5 times African American population in the US. 

By any and every metric they are poorer than African Americans. Average wage of a Bangladeshi citizen is $720/year. Average wage of an African American in the US is $30,314/year.

Bangladesh had a total of 3549 homicides 2017. African Americans by themselves had 7851, more than twice that in the US.

Explain to me how poverty, crime and race is connected here. Go ahead.

Oh....we're going to compare homicide rates in Bangladesh to the US.  This....this will be fun.  Here's an interesting stat for you:

Number of firearms per 100 people in Bangladesh: 0.4

Number of firearms per 100 people in the US: 120.5

So, I mean, the proliferation of guns in Bangladesh is [Brisket uses calculator] THREE HUNDRED TIMES what it is in the US.  That might be, umm, a factor in the disparate homicide numbers.

But, I mean, keep going down the "negroes are inherently dangerous" road.  This should be interesting to watch....

[hornhorn 100]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Look, what's important here is that we know we have a population of poor people, so we need to do as much as we can to make sure they stay that way.

I mean, that makes LOADS more sense than actually being deliberate about enacting policies that don't create roadblocks to poor folks being self-sustaining and being able to take care of themselves and....maybe....even advancing their way out of poverty.

There are studies, articles, etc., out the ass, about how even the best, hardest-working poor person, is susceptible to ONE mistake, ONE bad break, and it all comes crashing down.  She's busting her ass, taking classes at community college, working two jobs to make a better life for her and her kid, with $10 left over at the end of the month....but she's late to class one day and gets busted for speeding (yeah, hold her to a higher standard than the rest of us - "well, she shouldn't do that!").  Or maybe she is at a friend's BBQ one Sunday afternoon on a rare day off, and gets caught up in the laughs and good times, and has that 4th glass of wine when she should have stopped at 3.  And walking home....she gets busted and taken in for PI (again, no way a fine upstanding college person like US would do such a thing, no way!).

She's done.  It's over.  And your fantasy world of "payments plans" and whatnot -- some places do that. MANY do not.  That $500 fine is the end of her chance to improve herself.  She can't pay it.  She goes delinquent.  Interest stacks up.  She REALLY can't pay it.  Her license gets suspended.  No more community college classes.  No more jobs she has to drive to.  But hey, what's important is that YOU REALLY SHOWED HER.  Yep, condemning someone to a life of desperation and perpetual poverty to make a point, well, that's just GENIUS.  What a productive thing for us to do as a society!  Why, you should get a goddamned Nobel Prize for your brilliance.  Surely, THIS approach will cure all of our ills!

Wait....what's that....we've been doing that.....and all the evidence demonstrates that it actually INCREASES poverty and desperation?  Huh....bummer.

I know you keep repeating these anecdotes because it makes for a great narrative but as a self proclaimed litigator you should know that we allow payment plans, hardship allowances where one can do community work in lieu of paying for these tickets. And if you do it just ONCE like you suggest, just ONCE, it should be fairly manageable to either make payments or do the community work. 

No one is keeping them in that situation unless they choose to keep themselves in it by committing the same mistakes over and over and over. 

[Dahobbs 18317]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

Oh....we're going to compare homicide rates in Bangladesh to the US.  This....this will be fun.  Here's an interesting stat for you:

Number of firearms per 100 people in Bangladesh: 0.4

Number of firearms per 100 people in the US: 120.5

So, I mean, the proliferation of guns in Bangladesh is [Brisket uses calculator] THREE HUNDRED TIMES what it is in the US.  That might be, umm, a factor in the disparate homicide numbers.

But, I mean, keep going down the "negroes are inherently dangerous" road.  This should be interesting to watch....

Well, that and what he actually demonstrated is that "negroes" are inherently in danger in the United States. 

[hornhorn 100]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

Oh....we're going to compare homicide rates in Bangladesh to the US.  This....this will be fun.  Here's an interesting stat for you:

Number of firearms per 100 people in Bangladesh: 0.4

Number of firearms per 100 people in the US: 120.5

So, I mean, the proliferation of guns in Bangladesh is [Brisket uses calculator] THREE HUNDRED TIMES what it is in the US.  That might be, umm, a factor in the disparate homicide numbers.

But, I mean, keep going down the "negroes are inherently dangerous" road.  This should be interesting to watch....

But those same numbers aren't disparate for others, like Hispanics or Asians or Whites. Despite having the same or even better access to guns. Yeah this is fun, you're not as good at this as you think you are. But yeah let...HAVE FUN!!

[jimmyjazz 47148]

5 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

Bangladesh as a country has a population of 150 million people which is 4.5 times African American population in the US. 

By any and every metric they are poorer than African Americans. Average wage of a Bangladeshi citizen is $720/year. Average wage of an African American in the US is $30,314/year.

Bangladesh had a total of 3549 homicides 2017. African Americans by themselves had 7851, more than twice that in the US.

Explain to me how poverty, crime and race is connected here. Go ahead.

My stepkids' dad is from Bangladesh.

I don't think you want me to school you on everything I've learned about that country, but let's just start with *guns* you twit.  Compare the number of guns in the US to Bangladesh and then normalize the data.  Otherwise, there's no point.

(Hint:  there are more than 1 gun per citizen in the US, and NOWHERE NEAR THAT NUMBER IN BANGLADESH.  Not even close.  Like, over 100X less.)

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13626]

13 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Just to put a point on Donald's lunacy, for an Austin family of 4, assuming 5 bathroom visits per day per person, 15X flushing would result in an EXCESS consumption of 448 gallons per day over 1X flushers, assuming 1.6 gallon low-flow toilets.  Based on residential water rates, this would equate to 13,626 EXCESS gallons of water used each month.  If this family were to not use a SINGLE DROP of water beyond this amount (which doesn't even account for the first flush, not to mention any other use of water), it would cost that family an extra $129.82 per month, or $1,558 per year.  These numbers just go up when you account for normal bathing, cooking, laundry uses.

Not happening, Donald.

I know, anal retentive post alert, but I hate bullshit like this.

Well, when your permanent case of the McDonald's-fueled shits is so severe you wear a diaper. And you project out of habit. And lie for practice...

[hornhorn 100]

6 minutes ago, Winona's Big Orange Bevo said:

I don't think anyone is arguing that the poor should be able to get away with breaking laws. However, punishments affect people differently. People who can't make bail for a nonviolent crime that would be pretty simple for most, shouldn't have to suffer long term ruin ( lost jobs, etc.) What affects society more, a $300 bail or the person out of work?

I wholeheartedly agree with you. Completely. Keeping them in jail is not the answer. 

But please propose a solution on what you would do for someone that continues to get PIs or keeps driving dangerously over the limits over and over and over? And won't pay their fines and won't show up to court dates. Problem is we run out of answers.

Edited December 6, 2019 by hornhorn

[Dahobbs 18317]

Just now, hornhorn said:

But those same numbers aren't disparate for others, like Hispanics or Asians or Whites. Despite having the same or even better access to guns. Yeah this is fun, you're not as good at this as you think you are. But yeah let...HAVE FUN!!

But, they are? I mean, even if you read the chart the exact wrong way you are insisting (i.e., that it is counting murders and not the murdered), it still would show white Americans, who are much much higher on the economic totem pole, committing more murders per capita than your Bangladesh example.  Of course, you can't read and are an idiot, so none of this matters. 

[Brisketexan 106886]

Just now, hornhorn said:

but as a self proclaimed litigator you should know that we allow payment plans, hardship allowances where one can do community work in lieu of paying for these tickets.

The problem is, that is a false statement.  You keep saying it, but that doesn't make it true.  Yes, SOME jurisdictions do so.  A SHITLOAD DO NOT.

 

1 minute ago, hornhorn said:

No one is keeping them in that situation unless they choose to keep themselves in it by committing the same mistakes over and over and over. 

This is also demonstrably false.  I'm not talking anecdotes.  There are, like, actual studies.  And actual legislative efforts and discussions moving forward based on same.

https://www.chicagomag.com/city-life/March-2018/How-Court-Costs-Trap-People-in-Povertyand-How-Lawmakers-Are-Trying-to-Fix-It/

https://www.npr.org/2014/08/25/343143937/in-ferguson-court-fines-and-fees-fuel-anger

Quote

To understand some of the distrust of police that has fueled protests in Ferguson, Mo., consider this: In 2013, the municipal court in Ferguson — a city of 21,135 people — issued 32,975 arrest warrants for nonviolent offenses, mostly driving violations.

http://www.monetarysanctions.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Monetary-Sanctions-2nd-Year-Report.pdf

https://theappeal.org/fines-and-fees-explained-bf4e05d188bf/

http://www.ncpolicywatch.com/2018/01/03/new-report-court-fines-fees-criminalizing-poverty-north-carolina/

I can keep going.  For another hour or two.  Not that you'll read a single one of these.  You'll just live in your fantasy world where poor folks just shouldn't be poor, and if anything bad happens, they can get a payment plan -- maybe they can sell a piece of artwork or something.

[TexEx15 17939]

There is just something about reading it and having it go through your brain as if you were writing it that makes you think “this dude is a fucking dumbass” that watching a video just can’t do.

[Incredulity 11876]

1 minute ago, hornhorn said:

I wholeheartedly agree with you. Completely. Keeping them in jail is not the answer. 

But please propose a solution on what you would do for someone that continues to get PIs or keeps driving dangerously over the limits over and over and over? And won't pay their fines and won't show up to court dates. Problem is we run out of answers.

Mandatory classes, exactly like what required for people who write bad checks in Austin.

[hornhorn 100]

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

My stepkids' dad is from Bangladesh.

I don't think you want me to school you on everything I've learned about that country, but let's just start with *guns* you twit.  Compare the number of guns in the US to Bangladesh and then normalize the data.  Otherwise, there's no point.

(Hint:  there are more than 1 gun per citizen in the US, and NOWHERE NEAR THAT NUMBER IN BANGLADESH.  Not even close.  Like, over 100X less.)

You take that gun data and then compare the homicide rate amongst Hispanics, Asians and Whites. If you still find an anomaly in African American numbers(hint: we do, like a crazy spike) then we come to a conclusion that something is broken there. And not with the people, biologically. That isn't my stance. 

[SimonBolivar 11064]

4 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

My life has been a roller coaster of fat and lean times. In lean times I learned that the penalty for being poor is fines.

My upward roller coaster always caught me up on that, but I never forget what a burden this must be for people who don't have my (white, educated, likable) advantages.

Once I was in line to pay a light bill to keep the lights on. I owed about $50 which I borrowed from a friend while I awaited a paycheck. The black woman in front of me was trying to negotiate a $230 bill for electricity. She was not a woman of means. She likely lived in cheap housing with no insulation and was probably making food versus bills decisions. It was an eye-opener for this suburban boy.

When she left I couldn't meet her eyes even if she bothered to look my way. I felt ashamed after that brief glimpse of another life.

I see it everyday with overdraft fees and those are the ones who are poor enough to fall into overdraft, but "wealthy" enough to have a bank. There are plenty of Americans that get their money from the checks cashing and payday lenders that Trump slayed. The whole personal banking industry in much of the country is designed to leech off of the poor. Now there are plenty of higher class banks in every city that make more off of business loans/financial advising/etc, but there are more of us bottom dwellers.

[Brisketexan 106886]

1 minute ago, Incredulity said:

Mandatory classes, exactly like what required for people who write bad checks in Austin.

Funny callbacks get rep.

[Dahobbs 18317]

2 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

You take that gun data and then compare the homicide rate amongst Hispanics, Asians and Whites. If you still find an anomaly in African American numbers(hint: we do, like a crazy spike) then we come to a conclusion that something is broken there. And not with the people, biologically. That isn't my stance. 

Yes. Something is broken there. The are poorer and more likely to be mistreated by the justice system and society in general.  We agree on something!

P.S. You are still a moron. 

[hornhorn 100]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The problem is, that is a false statement.  You keep saying it, but that doesn't make it true.  Yes, SOME jurisdictions do so.  A SHITLOAD DO NOT.

OK, fair enough. I don't know if ALL jurisdictions allow it. Would you agree that if a jurisdiction(Dallas and almost all surrounding cities to my knowledge do) allow you with a payment plan or community service in lieu of a ticket and you still do nothing and end up getting arrested its your fault? And not the system? 

[hornhorn 100]

6 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Mandatory classes, exactly like what required for people who write bad checks in Austin.

What if they don't show up to that? 

[Biff Tannen 46163]

8 minutes ago, TexEx15 said:

There is just something about reading it and having it go through your brain as if you were writing it that makes you think “this dude is a fucking dumbass” that watching a video just can’t do.

[Tuco 5093]

2 hours ago, Chrispy_ said:

I live in a very red area, they’re out there for sure. If they Democrats move to the middle, things could get very interesting. 

I figure the 2015 Republicans can now be categorized in these different groups. 

1. Those who hate Trump and have completely lost any respect for the party that defends him.  At this point, they plan on never voting for another Republican again. 

2. Those who hate Trump, will not vote for him, but will continue to support the Republicans who run cover for him.  

3. Those who dislike Trump.  Given a choice between voting for Trump and voting for a non-Trump Republican that has secured the Democratic nomination, they would definitely talk about voting for the non-Trump Republican on the Democratic ticket.  Because while they may dislike things like incarcerating immigrant children with no intention of reuniting them with their families, they are more concerned about the "socialism" of people having health care. 

4. Trumpsters.  

It's funny that the folks in the third group think they are any better than those in the fourth. 

Crisp, I already know who you are going to vote for. Any Democrat who considers your opinion in their calculation is a moron.  But understand this: as long as the Trump GOP is a politically viable party, it will always be the Trump GOP, long after he is gone.  Success doesn't not facilitate change. You voting for him just means you will never have a candidate you actually like.  I guess every dark, shit-storm, fascist cloud has a silver lining. 

 

 

 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13626]

8 minutes ago, TexEx15 said:

There is just something about reading it and having it go through your brain as if you were writing it that makes you think “this dude is a fucking dumbass” that watching a video just can’t do.

Thanks, Thumper. Wut's this? Flower?

[Dahobbs 18317]

Remember that time millions of jews were killed in Germany? Man, there must have been something really wrong with the jews for that many of them to be murdered. No other way to look at it, definitely their fault and not someone else's.  

[Brisketexan 106886]

Just now, hornhorn said:

OK, fair enough. I don't know if ALL jurisdictions allow it. Would you agree that if a jurisdiction(Dallas and almost all surrounding cities to my knowledge do) allow you with a payment plan or community service in lieu of a ticket and you still do nothing and end up getting arrested its your fault? And not the system? 

Sure.  It's your fault.

Now what?  Punishing these ne'er do wells sure does make hornhorn feel better.  You really showed them.  So now they're poor, and they're gonna stay poor, and not be able to drive to a job or anything like that.  WINNING!

Justice is about results, not about retribution.  We need to actually take affirmative steps to help people OUT of poverty, not steps to keep them there.  Even if they "deserve it."  I don't give a fuck if someone deserves it or not -- we are all better off if they have a pathway to earning a living and not being a drain on society.  Our system should be focused on achieving that outcome.*

*Note, I'm not talking about violent crimes and such.  You stab someone, you're not getting a lot of second chances.  But non-violent offenses, including traffic and drug offenses?  Yeah, I'm good with giving you 2, 4, 10 chances.  Because that just increases the odds that eventually, you get out of where you are, and become a contributing member of society.  Which is a win for ALL OF US.

[Incredulity 11876]

3 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

What if they don't show up to that? 

Warrant for their arrest.  Even thirty years later.

[Brisketexan 106886]

1 minute ago, Tuco said:

But understand this: as long as the Trump GOP is a politically viable party, it will always be the Trump GOP, long after he is gone.  Success doesn't not facilitate change. You voting for him just means you will never have a candidate you actually like.  I guess every dark, shit-storm, fascist cloud has a silver lining. 

This.  They've swallowed the full glass of poison.  They''re just too dumb to realize that they're already dead, even if it takes a couple of hours to do its magic. 

[Dahobbs 18317]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

*Note, I'm not talking about violent crimes and such.  You stab someone, you're not getting a lot of second chances.  But non-violent offenses, including traffic and drug offenses?  Yeah, I'm good with giving you 2, 4, 10 chances.  Because that just increases the odds that eventually, you get out of where you are, and become a contributing member of society.  Which is a win for ALL OF US.

Well, not all of us. Some of us don't want to be around "those people" and would prefer they not be given any chances. I'm not looking at hornhorn at all. 

[hornhorn 100]

1 minute ago, Incredulity said:

Warrant for their arrest.  Even thirty years later.

And that's the point, at some level we end up arresting people. And you'll have Brisket blaming the system. 

[staboner 5084]

10 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

You take that gun data and then compare the homicide rate amongst Hispanics, Asians and Whites. If you still find an anomaly in African American numbers(hint: we do, like a crazy spike) then we come to a conclusion that something is broken there. And not with the people, biologically. That isn't my stance. 

hmm there is one glaring part of history that is radically different there for black folks versus the others

unstay radioactive my friends. 

[hornhorn 100]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Sure.  It's your fault.

Now what?  Punishing these ne'er do wells sure does make hornhorn feel better.  You really showed them.  So now they're poor, and they're gonna stay poor, and not be able to drive to a job or anything like that.  WINNING!

Justice is about results, not about retribution.  We need to actually take affirmative steps to help people OUT of poverty, not steps to keep them there.  Even if they "deserve it."  I don't give a fuck if someone deserves it or not -- we are all better off if they have a pathway to earning a living and not being a drain on society.  Our system should be focused on achieving that outcome.*

*Note, I'm not talking about violent crimes and such.  You stab someone, you're not getting a lot of second chances.  But non-violent offenses, including traffic and drug offenses?  Yeah, I'm good with giving you 2, 4, 10 chances.  Because that just increases the odds that eventually, you get out of where you are, and become a contributing member of society.  Which is a win for ALL OF US.

So I'll ask you the same question I asked others, what do you suggest we do with someone who has been ticketed 3-4 times for driving 30 over, suspended license, warrants and court dates missed? How do you stop it at some point? Or do you even want it to stop?

I'm not for jail, trust me I am not. But at some point there people who leave us with no other option.

[Incredulity 11876]

1 minute ago, staboner said:

hmm there is one glaring part of history that is radically different there for black folks versus the others

unstay radioactive my friends. 

You should read up on Chinese and western railroads.