Donald Trump 2019

[Brisketexan 104,537]

Just now, hornhorn said:

So I'll ask you the same question I asked others, what do you suggest we do with someone who has been ticketed 3-4 times for driving 30 over, suspended license, warrants and court dates missed? How do you stop it at some point? Or do you even want it to stop?

I'm not for jail, trust me I am not. But at some point there people who leave us with no other option.

Read any number of the studies and recommendations I cited.  There are a metric shitton of good ideas out there.  Some places are implementing them.  Others are doubling down because "tough on crime! law and order! there must be consequences!".....cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Go ahead, read a few of them.  Plenty of good ideas between what we have now and letting someone drive like Mario Andretti through school zones every other day.

[Pig Bellmont 8,691]

Wait so why was Trump talking about flushing toilets?

[Winona's Big Orange Bevo 197]

8 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

Bangladesh as a country has a population of 150 million people which is 4.5 times African American population in the US. 

By any and every metric they are poorer than African Americans. Average wage of a Bangladeshi citizen is $720/year. Average wage of an African American in the US is $30,314/year.

Bangladesh had a total of 3549 homicides 2017. African Americans by themselves had 7851, more than twice that in the US.

Explain to me how poverty, crime and race is connected here. Go ahead.

There are so many different factors to take into consideration it boggles the mind. 

Here's something to chew on. On evening as I was watching the NBA, the name on the back of a player's jersey struck me and really made me think about the history of African Americans in this country. The name was Jefferson or Fitzpatrick, something obviously Anglo, and I thought about how that name patch labeled that person and how most people, I included, would be proud of that identifying patch on my back. I am very proud of my last name as it is very unique and identifies half of my ancestors country of origin. It is also my familial identifier and connects me to a long traceable list of extended family here in Texas and people back in our ancestral land. It defines a large part of me. It is who I am and tells my history.

I wondered what it would be like to wear the patch of a name on your back that didn't identify you or your origins but rather, more than likely, the family who used to own your ancestors. How did it feel to still carry the name of the person who owned you? What amount of pride could you hold with that name other than the pride that had to be manufactured out of the hardships that your ancestors had to endure. You don't have the history of your people or culture going back hundreds or thousands of years. Your effectively an orphan whose history was stolen. Your story begins when your people were sold like animals, freed to third class citizenry and for all intents and purposes aren't treated as equals to this day. How do you think that alone has affected the lives of African Americans and the struggles they faced to survive as a community? Think about that before you reason that we should all act the same because every has their disadvantages. 

[Foosters 17,725]

2 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

You should read up on Chinese and western railroads.

there it is!

[hornhorn 100]

1 minute ago, Incredulity said:

You should read up on Chinese and western railroads.

He lives with a frog of the well syndrome. He should also read up on how South Asians(Indians mostly) were taken to South Africa and Kenya as rail road workers and slaves. But none of them have the same violent history. 

[SimonBolivar 10,910]

1 minute ago, Incredulity said:

You should read up on Chinese and western railroads.

The difference though is that most Chinese in the United States in 2019 do not have descendants that worked on the railroad. 

[BrickHorn 18,186]

20 minutes ago, TexEx15 said:

There is just something about reading it and having it go through your brain as if you were writing it that makes you think “this dude is a fucking dumbass” that watching a video just can’t do.

That is just goddamned amazing.  “We have a situation where we’re looking very strongly at sinks and showers.”  

[Brisketexan 104,537]

4 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

That is just goddamned amazing.  “We have a situation where we’re looking very strongly at sinks and showers.”  

I wish I was a loofah....

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20,342]

27 minutes ago, TexEx15 said:

There is just something about reading it and having it go through your brain as if you were writing it that makes you think “this dude is a fucking dumbass” that watching a video just can’t do.

If Trump didn't get elected, we wouldn't have a steel industry ...



 

[SimonBolivar 10,910]

10 minutes ago, Winona's Big Orange Bevo said:

There are so many different factors to take into consideration it boggles the mind. 

Here's something to chew on. On evening as I was watching the NBA, the name on the back of a player's jersey struck me and really made me think about the history of African Americans in this country. The name was Jefferson or Fitzpatrick, something obviously Anglo, and I thought about how that name patch labeled that person and how most people, I included, would be proud of that identifying patch on my back. I am very proud of my last name as it is very unique and identifies half of my ancestors country of origin. It is also my familial identifier and connects me to a long traceable list of extended family here in Texas and people back in our ancestral land. It defines a large part of me. It is who I am and tells my history.

I wondered what it would be like to wear the patch of a name on your back that didn't identify you or your origins but rather, more than likely, the family who used to own your ancestors. How did it feel to still carry the name of the person who owned you? What amount of pride could you hold with that name other than the pride that had to be manufactured out of the hardships that your ancestors had to endure. You don't have the history of your people or culture going back hundreds or thousands of years. Your effectively an orphan whose history was stolen. Your story begins when your people were sold like animals, freed to third class citizenry and for all intents and purposes aren't treated as equals to this day. How do you think that alone has affected the lives of African Americans and the struggles they faced to survive as a community? Think about that before you reason that we should all act the same because every has their disadvantages. 

I have a rather odd Scotch-Irish last name with there being only a couple hundred of us in the US. It's a bit awkward with a Facebook group of people with our last name being half whites in Texas/Florida and half blacks in North Carolina. There was a long lost aunt that wrote a book on the genealogy of our last name in the 70s and she was a product of the Lost Cause generation. It was a lot of "We were too poor to own slaves. Our ancestors had 10 men in the Confederate Army who were fighting for states rights only"...sure whatever lady.

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by SimonBolivar

[Foosters 17,725]

7 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

He lives with a frog of the well syndrome. He should also read up on how South Asians(Indians mostly) were taken to South Africa and Kenya as rail road workers and slaves. But none of them have the same violent history. 

Ahh yes, the african-american experience: the same as white folks since 1865.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

[Mrs Whiggins 13,049]

12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I wish I was a loofah....

I know why you want to be a loofah. It's that Sela Ward commercial isn't it?

 

[troph 24,560]

Where’s the fuckin’ whistleblower, shitheeeeeaaaad???

They’re with the dozen plus folks that think a congressional subpoena is nothing more serious than an evite to an elementary school aged birthday party. Just ignore and not go.

[Chad Fuck 17,548]

2 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

I know why you want to be a loofah. It's that Sela Ward commercial isn't it?

 

Holy shit.  

I think that gave me a flashback to my first boner.

[TornACL 7,674]

4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

That reads almost as poorly as that ol Miss America broad who went on and on about maps.

[DDD Dad 14,243]

49 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

But those same numbers aren't disparate for others, like Hispanics or Asians or Whites. Despite having the same or even better access to guns. Yeah this is fun, you're not as good at this as you think you are. But yeah let...HAVE FUN!!

So what you're saying is that blacks are predisposed to violent crime.  As if it's a function of their race.  Interesting.

[SimonBolivar 10,910]

30 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

He lives with a frog of the well syndrome. He should also read up on how South Asians(Indians mostly) were taken to South Africa and Kenya as rail road workers and slaves. But none of them have the same violent history. 

Apples to Oranges.

 

The South Asians were treated horribly in Colonial South Africa, but only about 30% of them would live the rest of their life in Natal and their children weren't sold out from under them for generations as chattel.  

Edited December 6, 2019 by SimonBolivar

[JimmyJames 12,271]

1 hour ago, hornhorn said:

Jesus Christ, if all crime mirrors anything close to the homicide rate, it makes sense doesn't it? And I'll bring up blacks because you brought them up.  Blacks with 12% of the population commit more homicides in the US at (51%) than rest of the races all combined. Since you are great at Math, go ahead and do it. Yeah, about that homework, you should do it. 

 

Source: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-2.xls

Yep. Russian paid race baiting troll. 

[hornhorn 100]

Just now, JimmyJames said:

Yep. Russian paid race baiting troll. 

No rebuttal eh? Yep, Soros paid identity politics baiting troll. 

[DDD Dad 14,243]

46 minutes ago, TexEx15 said:

There is just something about reading it and having it go through your brain as if you were writing it that makes you think “this dude is a fucking dumbass” that watching a video just can’t do.

Today is the day Trump finally became presidential.

 

It's like watching Costanza's dad in real life.

[DDD Dad 14,243]

9 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

I know why you want to be a loofah. It's that Sela Ward commercial isn't it?

 

Who's the 19 year old at the beginning?  Asking for myself.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

Just now, hornhorn said:

No rebuttal eh? Yep, Soros paid identity politics baiting troll. 

Why bother? You’re a completely full of shit race baiting troll. Show us your evidence that you’re not. 

[hornhorn 100]

1 minute ago, SimonBolivar said:

Apples to Oranges.

 

The South Asians were treated horribly in Colonial South Africa, but only about 30% of them would live the rest of their life in Africa and their children weren't sold out from under them for generations as chattel.  

The didn't have the exact same experience but African Americans also weren't separated from all of their belongings overnight and asked to vacate their shops, homes and the country as a matter of newly found law targeting just them. And by overnight I mean literally overnight. And while that occurred the South Africans and Kenyans were allowed to rob, rape and pillage them unmitigated by the police or the state. 

[JimmyJames 12,271]

49 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

You take that gun data and then compare the homicide rate amongst Hispanics, Asians and Whites. If you still find an anomaly in African American numbers(hint: we do, like a crazy spike) then we come to a conclusion that something is broken there. And not with the people, biologically. That isn't my stance. 

I get it. The Russians and trump are white so you’re ok with them. A bunch of black dudes are black so you’re scared of them. It’s ok to admit who you are. 

[Chrispy_ 105]

26 minutes ago, Tuco said:

I figure the 2015 Republicans can now be categorized in these different groups. 

1. Those who hate Trump and have completely lost any respect for the party that defends him.  At this point, they plan on never voting for another Republican again. 

2. Those who hate Trump, will not vote for him, but will continue to support the Republicans who run cover for him.  

3. Those who dislike Trump.  Given a choice between voting for Trump and voting for a non-Trump Republican that has secured the Democratic nomination, they would definitely talk about voting for the non-Trump Republican on the Democratic ticket.  Because while they may dislike things like incarcerating immigrant children with no intention of reuniting them with their families, they are more concerned about the "socialism" of people having health care. 

4. Trumpsters.  

It's funny that the folks in the third group think they are any better than those in the fourth. 

Crisp, I already know who you are going to vote for. Any Democrat who considers your opinion in their calculation is a moron.  But understand this: as long as the Trump GOP is a politically viable party, it will always be the Trump GOP, long after he is gone.  Success doesn't not facilitate change. You voting for him just means you will never have a candidate you actually like.  I guess every dark, shit-storm, fascist cloud has a silver lining. 

 

 

 

Oh, I didn’t mean to mislead anyone on this issue, my apologies. I think there are Republicans to be had, but I’m definitely not one of them. Trump is a means to an end, that’s about it. I can’t remember a presidential candidate that I’ve voted for where I was excited to cast my ballot and it certainly won’t begin with Trump. It’s a binary choice and there is no Chrispy party, so my choice is fairly limited. 

[hornhorn 100]

Just now, JimmyJames said:

I get it. The Russians and trump are white so you’re ok with them. A bunch of black dudes are black so you’re scared of them. It’s ok to admit who you are. 

Show me one of my post that supports Trump. Just one? 

I call it like I see it unlike you Soros paid shill. 

[JimmyJames 12,271]

Just now, Chrispy_ said:

Oh, I didn’t mean to mislead anyone on this issue, my apologies. I think there are Republicans to be had, but I’m definitely not one of them. Trump is a means to an end, that’s about it. I can’t remember a presidential candidate that I’ve voted for where I was excited to cast my ballot and it certainly won’t begin with Trump. It’s a binary choice and there is no Chrispy party, so my choice is fairly limited. 

Chrispy troll may be a troll, but he is always a very polite one. This other guy, not so much. 

[tantric superman 4,667]

1 hour ago, hornhorn said:

Bangladesh as a country has a population of 150 million people which is 4.5 times African American population in the US. 

By any and every metric they are poorer than African Americans. Average wage of a Bangladeshi citizen is $720/year. Average wage of an African American in the US is $30,314/year.

Bangladesh had a total of 3549 homicides 2017. African Americans by themselves had 7851, more than twice that in the US.

Explain to me how poverty, crime and race is connected here. Go ahead.

Handguns per 100 persons in the US:  120.5

Handguns per 100 persons in Bangladesh:  .4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country

[hornhorn 100]

Just now, tantric superman said:

Handguns per 100 persons in the US:  120.5

Handguns per 100 persons in Bangladesh:  .4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country

Old and tired argument. I already responded. 

Handguns per 100 persons in the US doesn't matter when 12% of the population commits more than half the homicides because the other 88% of the population also has the same access to guns and are nowhere near the homicide rate.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

2 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

Show me one of my post that supports Trump. Just one? 

I call it like I see it unlike you Soros paid shill. 

I would love it if Soros paid me to post. I’d probably demand more than the two rubles an hour you make though. 

As for your trump supporting posts, I would simple point to your numerous moronic posts, which by default means you support President shitstain. 

Embrace your inner idiocy. 

[troph 24,560]

Keep in mind, by their own admission, nearly 1 in 2 “proud conservatives” support eliminating constitutional checks and balances so Trump can “govern more effectively” ... more like proud authoritarians if you have any intellectual honesty about it.

[DDD Dad 14,243]

4 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

Handguns per 100 persons in the US:  120.5

Handguns per 100 persons in Bangladesh:  .4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country

 

2 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

Old and tired argument. I already responded. 

Handguns per 100 persons in the US doesn't matter when 12% of the population commits more than half the homicides because the other 88% of the population also has the same access to guns and are nowhere near the homicide rate.

It's because they're black.

[SimonBolivar 10,910]

Just now, hornhorn said:

The didn't have the exact same experience but African Americans also weren't separated from all of their belongings overnight and asked to vacate their shops, homes and the country as a matter of newly found law targeting just them. And by overnight I mean literally overnight. And while that occurred the South Africans and Kenyans were allowed to rob, rape and pillage them unmitigated by the police or the state. 

Do you think that most Africans that were taken as slaves volunteered to come to the Americas? And they couldn't be separated from their belongings once they got here because the highest court in the land stated that they had no rights that whites were bound to respect therefore they had no belongings.

 

 

Why am I responding to an obvious troll? No college educated human could type "African Americans also weren't separated from all of their belongings overnight and asked to vacate their shops, homes and the country as a matter of newly found law targeting just them" with a straight face.

 

 

 

[hornhorn 100]

Just now, JimmyJames said:

I would love it if Soros paid me to post. I’d probably demand more than the two rubles an hour you make though. 

As for your trump supporting posts, I would simple point to your numerous moronic posts, which by default means you support President shitstain. 

Embrace your inner idiocy. 

So you have no proof? Just like your non existent rebuttal? I figured. 

 

[JimmyJames 12,271]

1 minute ago, SimonBolivar said:

Do you think that most Africans that were taken as slaves volunteered to come to the Americas? And they couldn't be separated from their belongings once they got here because the highest court in the land stated that they had no rights that whites were bound to respect therefore they had no belongings.

 

 

Why am I responding to an obvious troll? No college educated human could type "African Americans also weren't separated from all of their belongings overnight and asked to vacate their shops, homes and the country as a matter of newly found law targeting just them" with a straight face.

 

 

 

He is an obvious troll. Probably Russian paid. Trolling on race relations in America is an obvious sign. They think it’s very effective and easy to talk about on the net. 

Even the racists in America know better than that. 

[Pasken 1,309]

You guys aren’t talking about Trump saying it takes him 10-15 flushes after he shits? I’m disappointed.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

2 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

So you have no proof? Just like your non existent rebuttal? I figured. 

 

Shit does this mean the jury won’t convict? 

[jimmyjazz 45,538]

7 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

Old and tired argument. I already responded. 

Handguns per 100 persons in the US doesn't matter when 12% of the population commits more than half the homicides because the other 88% of the population also has the same access to guns and are nowhere near the homicide rate.

There's a pretty big flaw in that argument.  Let's see if you can spot it.

[hornhorn 100]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

There's a pretty big flaw in that argument.  Let's see if you can spot it.

Shit, does this mean you're not convinced?

[jimmyjazz 45,538]

2 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

Shit, does this mean you're not convinced?

It means I think you're really bad at this.

[hornhorn 100]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

It means I think you're really bad at this.

It means Soros is not getting the bang for his buck. He should hire better trolls.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

The black slaves weren’t forcibly removed from Africa, they got an all expense paid free tour to on a boat to a brand new exotic country!  

The trolls are both incredibly dumb but also entertaining. Keep it up guys. 

[hayden_horn 11,360]

25 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

So I'll ask you the same question I asked others, what do you suggest we do with someone who has been ticketed 3-4 times for driving 30 over, suspended license, warrants and court dates missed? How do you stop it at some point? Or do you even want it to stop?

I'm not for jail, trust me I am not. But at some point there people who leave us with no other option.

here's something that i don't believe has been highlighted yet, except slightly by brisket.

the system is set up for recidivism.

you see it all the time in the dwi world, and back when the mugshot thread was a thing - the repeat offenders were often picked up for other offenses that branched off their conviction.

but let's make a hypothetical. take a young (early twenties) service industry person. he works nights at a restaurant while trying to finish up his teacher's certificate. let's say he had a few beers after work with the kitchen staff before driving home. is he at fault for this act? yes. he is pulled over and subsequently arrested. that is one bad night. let's say he wasn't even really doing anything overly wrong on the roadway - but he had a brake light out. still, driving drunk is his fault, so he's got to take the arrest, but he does the smart thing and refuses a breathalyzer and the sobriety tests.

problem is, service being a cash heavy business, he carries most of his money in his wallet. he made $350 last night that's sitting in a baggie at the jail. his bank account is pretty short, because he's just made rent and power.

he's printed, mugshot, and spends the night in jail. he's arraigned the next morning. judge is in a bad mood, so even though he's on a first time offense, he is given an instruction for an interlock system on his car. he's given a $3000 bond, so his bail money would be $300. now, he's got enough of this in his wallet, but he has no access to this. so he cannot make bail, and he has friends trying to get hings put together for him. 

but he has to spend another night in jail, is AWOL at work, and subsequently fired when his boss cannot get ahold of him.

finally the bail money is put together, and he gets out. 

let's keep in mind at this point he is not even convicted of a crime.

his car has been towed by a tow company who charges $180 per night at their lot (cash only, and exact change ONLY!), so he's already out $360, which is more than he has got in his wallet, and besides, he has to pay his friends back for the bail loan.

somehow he scrapes up enough money to get his car back. now he needs to hire a lawyer to make a filing to get a provisional license to drive so he can find a new job so he can pay for all this shit. his lawyer is cool and agrees to be flexible on the payment plan. he pays what he can on a credit card, lawyer wanted $500 down. his lawyer advises him to take a couple of classes about drinking or some shit, and those cost about $50 each, and are really only offered in the evening, when he would normally be working. however, his lawyer makes clear these classes are checkboxes for a judge to be more understanding. no effort means no mercy.

let's keep in mind at this point he is not even convicted of a crime.

so he somehow finds his way into another job after a week. he's filling up his car with gas finally, walks into the gas station and BAM, there's his mugshot on a paper on the counter. clerk looks from paper to him and back to the paper. 

let's keep in mind at this point he is not even convicted of a crime.

in order to drive that car, he has to have an interlock device installed. the device costs, say $100. then there's a monthly fee to be monitored by the device, let's say $75 per month. if he doesn't pay this, or is caught with the device somehow disconnected, his provisional license is suspended. he could also face a second arrest.

not even yet convicted.

let's say he manages to get all this done, and he pleads guilty and is convicted of a misdeanor dwi. now he has a record that makes him toxic to many employers, including schools, so he has to stick at being a waiter.

now shit still hangs over his head. he's on probation, he's got to pay court costs, and he can have his license back, but it comes with a three year surchage of $1000 each year. but don't worry, he can pay in installments of $38 per month. if he misses a payment, his license is suspended. he would be subject to arrest if pulled over with that suspended license.

the trick is, that $38 per month comes with a "convenience fee" of $5, so that's really $33 per month. but it's alright, he can pay it off in his own time. but these surcharges stack. so after only paying $396 of his first year surcharge after 12 months, the next year surcharge takes effect. bang, another $1000 stacked on top. he's successfully fulfilled the provisions of his probation, so, effectively he's "served his time, but that second surcharge is another minimum payment of $38, which means each month he know owes $76 or he risks losing his license. he manages to make this work, so he's paid nearly $800 of the first year, and $396 on the second year surcharge, but here comes year #3! another $1000 to stack on top. so now he's in for a minimum of $113 per month to retain his license, despite being 3 year removed from the crime he committed. 

at every step, if he doesn't fulfill numerous obligations, he's subject to another arrest and more fines and more draconian punishments.

this is the same for numerous crimes, including possession of drugs, getting in a stupid fight, or whatever. 

so we've taken a promising life of a guy who wants to be a middle school teacher and completely derailed it for at least half a decade. because this guy had one idiotic night wher ehe had one too many beers and a broken taillight. 

what he did was wrong, but years later, he's still dealing with it. and the system is designed to be blocky with multiple points of failure to further embroil you in the justice system.

it's a meat grinder, intentionally so. you can't just expect people who don't have the money to pay fines to do, say, community service, because they need those hours to work. you or i get arrested for something or other, we can afford bail. we can afford a good lawyer. we can pay that surcharge out of pocket. but the waiter, the teacher, the person working through school at dominoes pizza? nope. they are turbo fucked, and for YEARS.

i'm not advocating for pardons, or ultimate leniency, or anything of the sort. but the system is very invested in putting offenders back inside and chewing them up, and it really punishes those who do not have a lot of money. 

tl;dr - the system sucks and actively pursues ways to chew up no-violent offenders.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

3 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

It means Soros is not getting the bang for his buck. He should hire better trolls.

You projecting isn’t gonna convince anyone here. Go back to texags with your bullshit. 

Which begs the question, why are you here in the first place? 

[RomaVicta 29,769]

1 hour ago, Tuco said:

I figure the 2015 Republicans can now be categorized in these different groups. 

1. Those who hate Trump and have completely lost any respect for the party that defends him.  At this point, they plan on never voting for another Republican again. 

2. Those who hate Trump, will not vote for him, but will continue to support the Republicans who run cover for him.  

3. Those who dislike Trump.  Given a choice between voting for Trump and voting for a non-Trump Republican that has secured the Democratic nomination, they would definitely talk about voting for the non-Trump Republican on the Democratic ticket.  Because while they may dislike things like incarcerating immigrant children with no intention of reuniting them with their families, they are more concerned about the "socialism" of people having health care. 

4. Trumpsters.  

It's funny that the folks in the third group think they are any better than those in the fourth. 

Crisp, I already know who you are going to vote for. Any Democrat who considers your opinion in their calculation is a moron.  But understand this: as long as the Trump GOP is a politically viable party, it will always be the Trump GOP, long after he is gone.  Success doesn't not facilitate change. You voting for him just means you will never have a candidate you actually like.  I guess every dark, shit-storm, fascist cloud has a silver lining. 

 

 

 

Bravo, sir. Astute and eloquent.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

2 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

here's something that i don't believe has been highlighted yet, except slightly by brisket.

the system is set up for recidivism.

you see it all the time in the dwi world, and back when the mugshot thread was a thing - the repeat offenders were often picked up for other offenses that branched off their conviction.

but let's make a hypothetical. take a young (early twenties) service industry person. he works nights at a restaurant while trying to finish up his teacher's certificate. let's say he had a few beers after work with the kitchen staff before driving home. is he at fault for this act? yes. he is pulled over and subsequently arrested. that is one bad night. let's say he wasn't even really doing anything overly wrong on the roadway - but he had a brake light out. still, driving drunk is his fault, so he's got to take the arrest, but he does the smart thing and refuses a breathalyzer and the sobriety tests.

problem is, service being a cash heavy business, he carries most of his money in his wallet. he made $350 last night that's sitting in a baggie at the jail. his bank account is pretty short, because he's just made rent and power.

he's printed, mugshot, and spends the night in jail. he's arraigned the next morning. judge is in a bad mood, so even though he's on a first time offense, he is given an instruction for an interlock system on his car. he's given a $3000 bond, so his bail money would be $300. now, he's got enough of this in his wallet, but he has no access to this. so he cannot make bail, and he has friends trying to get hings put together for him. 

but he has to spend another night in jail, is AWOL at work, and subsequently fired when his boss cannot get ahold of him.

finally the bail money is put together, and he gets out. 

let's keep in mind at this point he is not even convicted of a crime.

his car has been towed by a tow company who charges $180 per night at their lot (cash only, and exact change ONLY!), so he's already out $360, which is more than he has got in his wallet, and besides, he has to pay his friends back for the bail loan.

somehow he scrapes up enough money to get his car back. now he needs to hire a lawyer to make a filing to get a provisional license to drive so he can find a new job so he can pay for all this shit. his lawyer is cool and agrees to be flexible on the payment plan. he pays what he can on a credit card, lawyer wanted $500 down. his lawyer advises him to take a couple of classes about drinking or some shit, and those cost about $50 each, and are really only offered in the evening, when he would normally be working. however, his lawyer makes clear these classes are checkboxes for a judge to be more understanding. no effort means no mercy.

let's keep in mind at this point he is not even convicted of a crime.

so he somehow finds his way into another job after a week. he's filling up his car with gas finally, walks into the gas station and BAM, there's his mugshot on a paper on the counter. clerk looks from paper to him and back to the paper. 

let's keep in mind at this point he is not even convicted of a crime.

in order to drive that car, he has to have an interlock device installed. the device costs, say $100. then there's a monthly fee to be monitored by the device, let's say $75 per month. if he doesn't pay this, or is caught with the device somehow disconnected, his provisional license is suspended. he could also face a second arrest.

not even yet convicted.

let's say he manages to get all this done, and he pleads guilty and is convicted of a misdeanor dwi. now he has a record that makes him toxic to many employers, including schools, so he has to stick at being a waiter.

now shit still hangs over his head. he's on probation, he's got to pay court costs, and he can have his license back, but it comes with a three year surchage of $1000 each year. but don't worry, he can pay in installments of $38 per month. if he misses a payment, his license is suspended. he would be subject to arrest if pulled over with that suspended license.

the trick is, that $38 per month comes with a "convenience fee" of $5, so that's really $33 per month. but it's alright, he can pay it off in his own time. but these surcharges stack. so after only paying $396 of his first year surcharge after 12 months, the next year surcharge takes effect. bang, another $1000 stacked on top. he's successfully fulfilled the provisions of his probation, so, effectively he's "served his time, but that second surcharge is another minimum payment of $38, which means each month he know owes $76 or he risks losing his license. he manages to make this work, so he's paid nearly $800 of the first year, and $396 on the second year surcharge, but here comes year #3! another $1000 to stack on top. so now he's in for a minimum of $113 per month to retain his license, despite being 3 year removed from the crime he committed. 

at every step, if he doesn't fulfill numerous obligations, he's subject to another arrest and more fines and more draconian punishments.

this is the same for numerous crimes, including possession of drugs, getting in a stupid fight, or whatever. 

so we've taken a promising life of a guy who wants to be a middle school teacher and completely derailed it for at least half a decade. because this guy had one idiotic night wher ehe had one too many beers and a broken taillight. 

what he did was wrong, but years later, he's still dealing with it. and the system is designed to be blocky with multiple points of failure to further embroil you in the justice system.

it's a meat grinder, intentionally so. you can't just expect people who don't have the money to pay fines to do, say, community service, because they need those hours to work. you or i get arrested for something or other, we can afford bail. we can afford a good lawyer. we can pay that surcharge out of pocket. but the waiter, the teacher, the person working through school at dominoes pizza? nope. they are turbo fucked, and for YEARS.

i'm not advocating for pardons, or ultimate leniency, or anything of the sort. but the system is very invested in putting offenders back inside and chewing them up, and it really punishes those who do not have a lot of money. 

tl;dr - the system sucks and actively pursues ways to chew up no-violent offenders.

You bring up a major problem which actually accelerated during the Clinton presidency due to the crime wave of the late 80s and early 90s. The profiting off low level ie non dangerous crime. It must be eliminated. 

[hornhorn 100]

3 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

You projecting isn’t gonna convince anyone here. Go back to texags with your bullshit. 

Which begs the question, why are you here in the first place? 

Nah, you leave.

[Dahobbs 17,420]

23 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

Old and tired argument. I already responded. 

Handguns per 100 persons in the US doesn't matter when 12% of the population commits more than half the homicides because the other 88% of the population also has the same access to guns and are nowhere near the homicide rate.

Your fucking link didnt show that. It showed that black people were being murdered, not murdering. 

[hornhorn 100]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Your fucking link didnt show that. It showed that black people were being murdered, not murdering. 

Fair enough, under Overview where it says this: 

Of the murder victims for whom race was known, 51.9 percent were Black or African American, 43.5 percent were White, and 3.0 percent were of other races. Race was unknown for 243 victims. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 2.)

Click the link there.