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Donald Trump 2019

Francisco 2.0

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29183

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

I'll try not to use big words, but I can't promise anything to you...

The problem is illegal immigration. A wall does NOT solve this issue. A wall does have the potential to curb one mechanism...sorry "way"...that illegal immigrants gain access to our country: Illegal border crossings. 

 You are saying that it's something else: Dirty Mexicans and brown people. You seem to think that I too share your viewpoint that this is racial propaganda aimed towards people of color but am refusing to admit that this has any bearing on why the wall is being built. Sure, go with that.

...so badteammate's proposal of simply making them legal would solve this, right?

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GHOSTUSER
GHOSTUSER

I fucking love this President. My 2 faves during my lifetime are Trump and Nixon. They share a lot of similarities and were besieged by the same groups of assholes. No I’m not trolling. Y’all, the lef

Francisco 2.0
Francisco 2.0
Brisketexan
Brisketexan

This.....is magnificent. The "younger generation" is going to have to work double-time to fund YOUR Social Security, which YOUR generation of elected officials raided the fuck out of.  And which,

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JohnnyRage

JohnnyRage 1617

Posted
Posted
59 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

As stated, I see it as a start. The alternative is to continue on with "catch and release" while never attempting to solve the problem. 

“Catch and Release“ participants are issued documents to work, correct? And you think they don’t have Income taxes deducted?

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Spankytoes

Spankytoes 1735

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

What's the problem, though, specifically?

Make them all legal, put them all under the same taxation burdens as current citizens... problem solved, right?

- If the problem is "WE HAVE TO ENFORCE THE LAW" then just remove the law.

- If the problem is "THEY DON'T PAY INCOME TAXES" then make them pay income taxes.

bing bong, so simple

My ability to constantly restate the "problem" obviously isn't matching with your disagreement that there is a "problem". I can't tell you what you want to hear to validate my position, so I'm not sure what you are asking. Your position is ridiculous in theory and could be applied towards a myriad of issues. Why not lower the age of consent to 8 years old and release pedos? 

Our immigration laws and paths to citizenship are very clear. You don't reward people for breaking them just as you don't reward a thief for donating stolen cash to charity. It's really that simple.

 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18561

Posted
Posted
Just now, Spankytoes said:

My ability to constantly restate the "problem" obviously isn't matching with your disagreement that there is a "problem". I can't tell you what you want to hear to validate my position, so I'm not sure what you are asking. Your position is ridiculous in theory and could be applied towards a myriad of issues. Why not lower the age of consent to 8 years old and release pedos? 

Our immigration laws and paths to citizenship are very clear. You don't reward people for breaking them just as you don't reward a thief for donating stolen cash to charity. It's really that simple.

That's probably why illegals are deported when they are determined to be here illegally.

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Spankytoes

Spankytoes 1735

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

...so badteammate's proposal of simply making them legal would solve this, right?

It's solving it in the same sense as stating that that God created the universe and science as a default, yes. But, why have laws at all then? If we are going to arbitrarily disregard them, why should they even exist? 

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Spankytoes

Spankytoes 1735

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

That's probably why illegals are deported when they are determined to be here illegally.

And a wall is an opportunity to help us curb that situation from occurring because they weren't allowed the opportunity to come here illegally in the first place. No more cat and mouse games until next time.

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SmokeyTheBear

SmokeyTheBear 5562

Posted
Posted

The problem is that our economy is the strongest in the world and appealing to those who want to better their position in this life. The  problem is that there is a market in our economy that benefits from these individuals to come in and work jobs no other Americans want. The problem is that the laws have been structured to not account for the demand from the market due to political considerations. 

None of these problems would be solved by a wall. They are solved by adjusting the laws to be more flexible with the situation. 

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Spankytoes

Spankytoes 1735

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, JohnnyRage said:

“Catch and Release“ participants are issued documents to work, correct? And you think they don’t have Income taxes deducted?

No, that's not correct. We don't issue work permits for illegal workers, so I can't respond to your second question. The detainee either goes back as an undocumented worker until his/her hearing or they go on the run. Care to look up which is more popular?

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achooloco

achooloco 1065

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Spankytoes said:

 If we reduce 10,000 people annually from crossing into our borders illegally

link or anything really, that shows the amount a "wall" will reduce illegal immigration? The wall will be..where? Its effectiveness will be....what?

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Spankytoes

Spankytoes 1735

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

The problem is that our economy is the strongest in the world and appealing to those who want to better their position in this life. The  problem is that there is a market in our economy that benefits from these individuals to come in and work jobs no other Americans want. The problem is that the laws have been structured to not account for the demand from the market due to political considerations. 

None of these problems would be solved by a wall. They are solved by adjusting the laws to be more flexible with the situation. 

On this line of thinking, should we require people entering the US for business/pleasure to carry passports? Where do we draw the line and what do we do with the influx of people wanting a piece of that American Dream when we abolish the requirement of structure? Can you name me any developed country that allows immediate citizenship to individuals without a huge financial contribution? Because there seems to be a lot of them to make America the outlier.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18561

Posted
Posted
Just now, Spankytoes said:

On this line of thinking, should we require people entering the US for business/pleasure to carry passports? Where do we draw the line and what do we do with the influx of people wanting a piece of that American Dream when we abolish the requirement of structure? Can you name me any developed country that allows immediate citizenship to individuals without a huge financial contribution? Because there seems to be a lot of them to make America the outlier.

Hello, straw man.

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SmokeyTheBear

SmokeyTheBear 5562

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

On this line of thinking, should we require people entering the US for business/pleasure to carry passports? Where do we draw the line and what do we do with the influx of people wanting a piece of that American Dream when we abolish the requirement of structure? Can you name me any developed country that allows immediate citizenship to individuals without a huge financial contribution? Because there seems to be a lot of them to make America the outlier.

Bro, there is a giant grey area between the problem and your solution. 

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Spankytoes

Spankytoes 1735

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, achooloco said:

link or anything really, that shows the amount a "wall" will reduce illegal immigration? The wall will be..where? Its effectiveness will be....what?

That obviously wasn't a hard stat, but a weak argument none the less. 

Link that shows removing your shoes at an airport does not contribute to flight safety? 

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Spankytoes

Spankytoes 1735

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

Bro, there is a giant grey area between the problem and your solution. 

How so?

The proposal is to just allow illegals to stay and give them a path to legalized immigration. Why couldn't I get off a plane from Paris, claim amnesty upon landing and become a legal citizen through this path? Why would we need border control at all if we leave the determination to the individual? Free market citizenship.

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CowboyFred

CowboyFred 1151

Posted
Posted

So not only is Mexico not paying for his fucking wall, the US would give up land in the process...cool.

Also, if Trump does indeed give the State of the Union, is there a limit on him outright lying about the actual state of our union?  I think he ultimately ends up giving the speech but the shutdown will have ended by then.  He'll of course blame the dems for the government being shutdown so long.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18561

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

How so?

The proposal is to just allow illegals to stay and give them a path to legalized immigration. Why couldn't I get off a plane from Paris, claim amnesty upon landing and become a legal citizen through this path? Why would we need border control at all if we leave the determination to the individual? Free market citizenship.

That is not the proposal. 

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JohnnyRage

JohnnyRage 1617

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

No, that's not correct. We don't issue work permits for illegal workers, so I can't respond to your second question. The detainee either goes back as an undocumented worker until his/her hearing or they go on the run. Care to look up which is more popular?

Before Trump started Trumping 90% chose to show up for their subsequent hearing.

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29744

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

My ability to constantly restate the "problem" obviously isn't matching with your disagreement that there is a "problem". I can't tell you what you want to hear to validate my position, so I'm not sure what you are asking. Your position is ridiculous in theory and could be applied towards a myriad of issues. Why not lower the age of consent to 8 years old and release pedos? 

Our immigration laws and paths to citizenship are very clear. You don't reward people for breaking them just as you don't reward a thief for donating stolen cash to charity. It's really that simple.

 

I believe that this type of "argument" is begging the question.

It is a problem that illegal aliens come to our country.

Who does it harm?

Nobody, but it's a problem.

What is the problem?

They are entering the country illegally which is a problem.

Okay, why not change the law as there is a benefit to their presence?

That would be rewarding lawlessness. That's a problem.

Did freeing the slaves reward those law-breaking runaway slaves thus weakening the rule of law?

 

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achooloco

achooloco 1065

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

That obviously wasn't a hard stat, but a weak argument none the less. 

Link that shows removing your shoes at an airport does not contribute to flight safety? 

agreed, the shoe thing is worthless, i'm all for stopping that! but i think we agree lowering illegal immigration would be great, the wall just does fuck all to accomplish that goal. so lets support politicians that want real solutions, that work?

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Irwin F Fletcher

Irwin F Fletcher 3550

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

And a wall is an opportunity to help us curb that situation from occurring because they weren't allowed the opportunity to come here illegally in the first place. No more cat and mouse games until next time.

 

29 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

A porous wall isn't going to keep them out.

Spending $60 billion to build a wall is not going to do jack squat to curbing the number of illegal immigrants crossing the border. Money can be better spent to address the issue. 

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29744

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Posted
39 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

So if Dotard pulls his sluggish body up the Capitol steps, who's job is to stop him from entering the House?  

Or will the House members simply not be there?  

 

38 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Capitol Hill Police would keep him from entering the chamber.

 

36 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

This would be quite the sight to behold.

 

32 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Would they though?

 

30 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

If directed to do so by the Speaker of the House, yes.

What a spectacle for the world to see. Hooray for the red, white, and blue! 

I assume Pelosi is a few steps ahead of the Dotard and foresaw this development. My guess is that she'll remind the president of the sacred separation of powers or something even more elegant.

If he refuses to get it and shows up, we can't have a show down between cops and Secret Service. She must have something better than that in mind. Maybe just let him barge in with nothing set up and the mic dead at the podium. That's another idiotic spectacle, but it would only reflect poorly on Trump. I'm accustomed to that at least.

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SuingToGetAMessageBoard?

SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861

Posted
Posted

il Papa speaks out.

 

Quote

Pope Francis has made no secret in the past of his disdain for President Trump’s immigration policy. Francis speaks frequently of welcoming migrants; he has said he prefers bridges rather than walls.

On Wednesday, as the pope flew to Panama for a massive gathering of Catholic youth, a reporter asked Francis about a barrier constructed between the United States and Mexico, near San Diego, according to Reuters.

Francis dismissed the barrier as foolish and said it was motivated by some Americans' fear of migrants. “It is the fear that makes us crazy,” he said, according to the Associated Press.

[Pope Francis in 2017: Build bridges, not walls]

He has seen such barriers firsthand. In the months leading up to Trump’s election, Francis visited Mexico and stopped at the U.S. border, where he prayed for the people who have died while trying to cross.

Francis has criticized Trump many times over the past several years. The pontiff has said the president was “not Christian” because of his views on immigration and ought to extend protections to undocumented young immigrants if he is actually “pro-life.” And when Trump visited the Vatican in 2017, Francis gave him as a gift his encyclical on climate change, another subject on which they disagree.

Early on, Trump fired back, calling Francis’s suggestion that he was un-Christian “disgraceful.” The pair acted as if they had somewhat patched things up when Trump later visited the Holy See.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2019/01/23/pope-francis-trumps-border-wall-fear-that-makes-us-crazy/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5a2da78098d2 

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11359

Posted
Posted
53 minutes ago, retread said:

What a child. Tell a toddler he can't do something, and he'll act like he's going to do it anyway.

What are the odds that Nancy returns fire over him canceling her CODEL an hour before departure by doing the same with the state of the union? 

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TornACL

TornACL 7669

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Spankytoes said:

What part of the problem is complex? While I agree that it won't solve the problem, what about building a wall as a start is controversial? If we reduce 10,000 people annually from crossing into our borders illegally, what do you think that will net us in savings as a country? (Taxes, healthcare, uninsured motorists, etc.) It's simple economics. If I get a job that pays me $100,000 annually, my employer is not on the hook for just $100,000. They also have to subsidize my healthcare and provide other benefits such as transportation aid and retirement matching. I am also a body for functions that are sponsored or mundane activities such as holiday parties. They can reasonably assume that I will cost $30,000 above my base salary, not including any bonuses or additional funds allocated for my performance. If we use the estimate of 11,000,000 illegal immigrants currently in America, what do you think this equates to in wasted spending?

As a husband/son-in-law of legal immigrants, I've never understood the resistance to enforcing the law. Let's say that your house is burglarized and they steal your jewelry and TVs. Then the burglars take your wares to a pawn shop and cash out. But, then they donate half of their gains to a homeless shelter. Does this make burglarizing your house a good deed because the final action helped the needy? That's essentially the argument amnesty/partial amnesty folks are making. I've seen people getting angrier for people cutting in line at Starbucks than the ramifications of letting illegals remain.

You said a lot of words, but your first sentence shows that you're still missing the point. 

Let's skip your clumsy analogies and get to the point: over decades we have set up an economy in border states and perhaps beyond that relies on illegal labor, and in turn, welcomes and even financially encourages illegal immigration.

And then on the other hand we have politicians looking to demonize them all as criminals for cheap political points. 

Do you see the point being missed? 

That, in a nutshell, is the complexity of the issue. 

I don't understand how any person of any reasonable intelligence could fail to see the social, economic, political, and legal complexities in this issue. "Wall!" is not the solution. "Wall, just try it, what can it hurt?" is just a colossal jerk off session. 

It's beyond time that we face the truth and realize we need a lower-skill guest worker program to do all the shitty labor we haven't done as Americans for the last 6 decades. 

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