2019 Body Transformation Thread

[Goofyboy 3269]

February got off to a rough start. Ate and drank like shit all weekend. After sticking to the straight and narrow, I almost forgot how crappy a weekend like that can make you feel come Monday. 
Back at it.

Same. Back on it today though. Only went up a couple pounds.

[Longhorn Al 440]

I gained a bunch of weight the last couple of days.  I mean like 10 pounds in 2 days.  It's fluid retention and food in my gut.  I started a long fast last night at 10pm.  Going to start going to they gym this week as well.

[ztejas 43411]

On 2/2/2019 at 8:06 AM, El Diablo said:

This has always been assumed and it's the theory that I subscribe to BUT, and I have not done any research and am just going from what I've read posted here, Keto people have said that thru some trickery of the body that on a Keto diet the body will simply let excess fat pass thru undigested. That bypasses the "calories in/calories out" theory. No idea if it holds water or is just wishful thinking on their part.

Well, calories in is a constant for everyone. Calories out is not. 

People with higher metabolisms burn more calories. People that are more active burn more calories (no shit). People in ketosis might burn more calories. I don't know, I'm not a physiology major, but you can't lose weight if you're putting in more than is going out. 

[El Diablo 4232]

3 hours ago, ztejas said:

Well, calories in is a constant for everyone. Calories out is not. 

People with higher metabolisms burn more calories. People that are more active burn more calories (no shit). People in ketosis might burn more calories. I don't know, I'm not a physiology major, but you can't lose weight if you're putting in more than is going out. 

That wasn't the proposed situation. We've had Ketoheads say that you can't GAIN weight if you're in ketosis/eating keto. That you can put more calories into your mouth than you burn and they will not be digested/absorbed/whatever - thus bypassing the CI/CO conventional wisdom.

And I don't know what you mean by "calories in is a constant for everyone". Not everybody eats the same.

[scottsins 1966]

First time checking into this thread.

I want to espouse my revolutionary discovery:

I find that I would rather be sore and tired from exercising A LOT, than eat rice cakes and shit. Not losing that fast but I’m down 45 lbs in under a year.

I bought a Peloton last year and am currently on a 53 day streak of rides. I don’t know if this equipment had gotten any run on this thread but if anyone has questions about it or their own experiences, post here or PM.

[Goofyboy 3269]

I have a road bike and a trainer set up for it.

How different is it from a road bike on a trainer, if you happen to know.

[Jkwellborn 6691]

First time checking into this thread.

I want to espouse my revolutionary discovery:

I find that I would rather be sore and tired from exercising A LOT, than eat rice cakes and shit. Not losing that fast but I’m down 45 lbs in under a year.

I bought a Peloton last year and am currently on a 53 day streak of rides. I don’t know if this equipment had gotten any run on this thread but if anyone has questions about it or their own experiences, post here or PM.

I want a peloton but I’m not sure I can justify the cost. Do you have to subscribe to the service?

[Jkwellborn 6691]

I will say this though. I haven’t been able to go jog/run in a couple of days and I miss it. Normally when I’m through with my routine, I’m ready to get some work done. I’m already missing that.

[troph 24781]

I don’t know about the peloton bike though I’ve eyed it. Spin class though is the only exercise that doesn’t involve a ball and a game that I enjoy. Dominating a bike for an hour or two is exhilarating.

[troph 24781]

That wasn't the proposed situation. We've had Ketoheads say that you can't GAIN weight if you're in ketosis/eating keto. That you can put more calories into your mouth than you burn and they will not be digested/absorbed/whatever - thus bypassing the CI/CO conventional wisdom.
And I don't know what you mean by "calories in is a constant for everyone". Not everybody eats the same.

He meant the calories for an identical meal is constant for each of us but how our bodies burn those calories is different.

[Longhorn Al 440]

7 hours ago, El Diablo said:

That wasn't the proposed situation. We've had Ketoheads say that you can't GAIN weight if you're in ketosis/eating keto. That you can put more calories into your mouth than you burn and they will not be digested/absorbed/whatever - thus bypassing the CI/CO conventional wisdom.

And I don't know what you mean by "calories in is a constant for everyone". Not everybody eats the same.

It's taken me awhile to wrap my head around what you're asking and trying to think of what these people were thinking when they made this claim.

CICO is not simple. 

For example, if you restrict CI, CO does not necessarily remain constant.  Think starvation mode.  You cut back by 500 calories a day, your body will eventually decrease BMR by 500.  The result is a slowed metabolism and no long term weight loss.

Conversely, if you increase your CI, and keep insulin low (which is the hormone that tells your body to store excess energy), then your body could increase your BMR to burn off the excess calories.  Basically you'd be increasing your metabolism (you can look up this process for fixing a broken metabolism).  You could also do this through exercise.  There are a lot of things that go into this equation.

Maybe that latter example is what they meant.  I have no idea.  Generally speaking, CICO is correct, and you CAN gain on Keto.

Years of calorie reduction diets that killed my metabolism, followed by bouts of overeating, have made me this fat.  I have to lose the weight, then fix my metabolism.  I will attack this with lifting weights, HIIT, and keeping my insulin low through fasting.  When the time comes, I'll eat carbs on workout days, fast on non-workout days.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Longhorn Al

[scottsins 1966]

6 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

I want a peloton but I’m not sure I can justify the cost. Do you have to subscribe to the service?

Yep.  People say that you CAN save a lot of money by just taking classes at a gym, or doing some other program.  For me, for whatever reason, having this bike in my home, using it regularly is something that I WILL ACTUALLY DO.

Not sure why but every other exercise option has been something that I just haven’t ever taken to like this.

[Lobwedgephil 1139]

5 hours ago, scottsins said:

Yep.  People say that you CAN save a lot of money by just taking classes at a gym, or doing some other program.  For me, for whatever reason, having this bike in my home, using it regularly is something that I WILL ACTUALLY DO.

 Not sure why but every other exercise option has been something that I just haven’t ever taken to like this.

Pretty much sums it up for me, yes it is expensive, but worth it if you use it. Congrats on your streak! No where close to that for me, but it has gotten me much more active than previously, and I am getting even more into it this year. 

[Shenanigans 31]

14 hours ago, scottsins said:

First time checking into this thread.

I want to espouse my revolutionary discovery:

I find that I would rather be sore and tired from exercising A LOT, than eat rice cakes and shit. Not losing that fast but I’m down 45 lbs in under a year.

I bought a Peloton last year and am currently on a 53 day streak of rides. I don’t know if this equipment had gotten any run on this thread but if anyone has questions about it or their own experiences, post here or PM.

My apartment complex has a Peloton. That thing is badass. I've recently started running though so haven't been on it in a while. If I didn't have a gym membership/had room for one/wanted an at-home form of exercise this would be my #1 choice hands down.

53 days straight is awesome! Good job man.

[Shenanigans 31]

11 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

I want a peloton but I’m not sure I can justify the cost. Do you have to subscribe to the service?

They also have a standalone app that gives you access to the classes. If you have a stationary bike you can try that much out to see what the class component is like. The actual metrics of cadence/resistance/power wont show up on the screen though. If you buy the bike but you don't subscribe to the service, you'll just have a fancy spin bike with a screen that I don't think you'll be able to do anything with.

[scottsins 1966]

This is probably the time to mention that many of the Peloton instructors are really easy on the eyes.

[South Austin 52454]

16 minutes ago, thestud said:

What are you looking for? Protein? BCAA’s? EAA’s? Stay away from fat burners, they’re 100% a scam and studies have shown them to do more harm than good.

Like what kind?  I take CLA and L-Carnitine, and haven’t read anything bad about them.

 

[South Austin 52454]

I agree that fat burning supplements are a waste if you’re not eating right and not  getting some amount of exercise. But I have a pretty healthy low carb/high protein/high fat diet, and I exercise about 6 days a week, so I think the fat burner supplements help in shedding that extra amount of body fat that’s harder to lose as you get older.

[troph 24781]

I'm not talking fat burners, muscle building or any other gimmicks.  I'm thinking overall health.  I don't need to build muscle to have a toned and fit tennis body (i.e. sexy fit, not gross big muscles fit).  anti-oxidants, free radical stuff, DNA health, micro nutrients, etc.  At one point I took Omega-3, CoQ10, Vitamin D and a multi-vitamin with all of the greens for micro nutrients.  I don't know if it was effective, but it was expensive.  and everyone talks about absorption, bioavailable, bioidentical, and then as I mentioned all of this crap is super expensive on a month in and month out basis.  so I'm curious what folks here might do to round out their dietary needs for their version of optimal health.  right now the only supplement I take is Kavinance for stress, sleep and mild anxiety.  it works.

Edited February 6, 2019 by troph

[troph 24781]

3 hours ago, South Austin said:

I agree that fat burning supplements are a waste if you’re not eating right and not  getting some amount of exercise. But I have a pretty healthy low carb/high protein/high fat diet, and I exercise about 6 days a week, so I think the fat burner supplements help in shedding that extra amount of body fat that’s harder to lose as you get older.

revised position - but if a fat burner helps with the 5 lbs that seem to hang around and just won't go away then I'd be interested. 

[Player 4575]

7 hours ago, South Austin said:

I agree that fat burning supplements are a waste if you’re not eating right and not  getting some amount of exercise. But I have a pretty healthy low carb/high protein/high fat diet, and I exercise about 6 days a week, so I think the fat burner supplements help in shedding that extra amount of body fat that’s harder to lose as you get older.

No side effects (nausea, cramping) from taking these? Do you take them before or after working out? 

[South Austin 52454]

Just now, Player said:

No side effects (nausea, cramping) from taking these? Do you take them before or after working out? 

Neither.  I take them with meals three times a day.  No side effects.

[Longhorn Al 440]

65 hours down

271 hours to go

 

I've lost 3 of the 10 I gained over the weekend.  I've done 30 mins of walking the last couple nights with varying elevations.  Just trying to lube up my joints and work my way up to an hour of walking a day.

Next re-feed I'm not going to go wild.  I don't want to keep losing the same pounds.

[Player 4575]

39 minutes ago, South Austin said:

Neither.  I take them with meals three times a day.  No side effects.

Are you taking the combined supplement, or taking them separately? I can't recall exactly, but I've heard that taken before a workout can cause some gastro issues. 

[South Austin 52454]

52 minutes ago, Player said:

Are you taking the combined supplement, or taking them separately? I can't recall exactly, but I've heard that taken before a workout can cause some gastro issues. 

Separately. 

[troph 24781]

My tennis coach asked me to do 1000 jump ropes today at the end of practice. I chortled. I barely got 50 before I tripped over my feet. Struggled to get 300 total. Easily 7-8 breaks to get to 300, she wanted 1000 no breaks. Holy shit jump rope is not for sissies.

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2732]

Jump rope has always been something I do to warm up and I’m good enough to do some tricks, but at 44 that many unbroken would be tough.

[troph 24781]

Jump rope has always been something I do to warm up and I’m good enough to do some tricks, but at 44 that many unbroken would be tough.

43 with heavy feet here. So part of my failure was form. The whole thing started when I sent her an email saying I need to be lighter on my feet and my footwork needs an upgrade. I wanted to throw up today. She said I should be at 1000 within a month. L effing OL. I’ll try.

[Lobwedgephil 1139]

3 minutes ago, thestud said:

 

 

10 pounds over a weekend isn’t fat gain, that’s inflammation and water weight. Getting diet and digestion back on track will drop that 10 in a couple of days.

 

 

That's a good point, but I wonder what the threshold is for the long term fasters. Bernard lost like 100 pounds, and gained 40 or so back, which either way is a great year of weight loss. Think Al is close to 100 down as well. Seems like incredible results, but need to be careful when you stop what you are doing to lose the weight. 

Interests me, as I have lost a ton of weight in the last 8 months, still in weight loss mode, but need to figure out a way to maintain somewhat and not gain it all back. I don't know the answer to that yet, but as I get closer to my new weight loss goal, need to figure it out soon. 

[Longhorn Al 440]

31 minutes ago, thestud said:

 

 

 

 

10 pounds over a weekend isn’t fat gain, that’s inflammation and water weight. Getting diet and digestion back on track will drop that 10 in a couple of days.

 

 

Yeah, I know.  I keep reminding myself it's water.  But it's a stubborn 10.  I've only lost 3 of it so far (73 hours).

[Longhorn Al 440]

14 minutes ago, thestud said:

The trouble with almost all “fad” diets is that something like 90% of participants revert back to their pre-diet weight and then some. Fasting, IF, Keto, and everything in between are all fad diets and they’re all killing your metabolism and ability to effectively burn fat. The better and more sustainable approach is counting your macros and learning healthy habits and portion control.

Subscribe to Layne Norton and Spencer Nadolsky NOW.

Fasting doesn't kill metabolism.  Calorie restriction does.

[Parliament 14244]

Interests me, as I have lost a ton of weight in the last 8 months, still in weight loss mode, but need to figure out a way to maintain somewhat and not gain it all back. I don't know the answer to that yet, but as I get closer to my new weight loss goal, need to figure it out soon. 

Start lifting weights, Bruh.

[Longhorn Al 440]

I lost 90+ last year in 8+ months.  I can tell you exactly why I gained 40 of it back before January.  I left the reservation.  I ate pizza, Tex-Mex, burgers, bbq, onion rings, etc.  It was my old ways.  But even though I did that for the last 3-4 months of 2018, it was mostly water.  I say that because I lost 30+ in January and my ketones were higher than they've ever been.  My body was still fat-adapted.

I'm sure I have some underlying issues that I'm trying to correct, such as insulin resistance and fatty liver.  My metabolism was likely wrecked after years of yo-yo calorie restricted dieting.  My thyroid is a little out of whack, and my testosterone is low.  My cholesterol is also very low (100-120 total).  I'm just trying to work on my weight so that these things can heal. 

Once they do, and I get closer to my goal weight, I'll start planning how to eat and gain muscle while in a fasting lifestyle.  Maybe I'll be OMAD.  Maybe I'll do 48hr fasts, lift heavy, then re-feed on high protein and some complex carbs to spike my insulin and build muscle.  Then fast another 48. Rinse. Repeat.

I have a long way to go before I worry too much about that.  Fasting works.  My re-feeds don't always. haha  I'll get it dialed in.

[Lobwedgephil 1139]

44 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Start lifting weights, Bruh.

 Not really lifting as I never have, but looking to start soon.  Even so, peloton has made my numbers better. While my weight loss numbers have considerably slowed, my BMI and BF has continued to drop. 

1 hour ago, thestud said:

The trouble with almost all “fad” diets is that something like 90% of participants revert back to their pre-diet weight and then some. Fasting, IF, Keto, and everything in between are all fad diets and they’re all killing your metabolism and ability to effectively burn fat. The better and more sustainable approach is counting your macros and learning healthy habits and portion control.

Subscribe to Layne Norton and Spencer Nadolsky NOW.

I hear ya, but I completely disagree about slowing your metabolism. There are a bunch of recent studies showing that fasting and keto improves your metabolism. Now I don't fast like other here, but I do 16/8 fasting, which anyone can easily do, it is skipping breakfast basically. 

I do agree with you on the sustainable approach of counting macros and eating healthier, etc. That is the key for maintenance. But I will still be mostly keto when I hit my goal, even for maintenance. It is a lifestyle for me now, feel better, have more energy working out, etc. For you, get over what you call a "fad" diet, things may work or not work for you, that is okay. You can say that someone lost weight and gained it all back on any diet in history, because that is true. 

Edited February 7, 2019 by Lobwedgephil

[Lobwedgephil 1139]

12 minutes ago, thestud said:

Our bodies adapt to starvation periods, it's how we work.  Does time restricted eating work for you and your weight loss goals? Maybe so, but if it does it's because it has helped you to consume less food (less calories), not because it improved your metabolism. 

I can only say what has worked for me, everyone is different. 

[Longhorn Al 440]

17 minutes ago, thestud said:

Our bodies adapt to starvation periods, it's how we work.  Does time restricted eating work for you and your weight loss goals? Maybe so, but if it does it's because it has helped you to consume less food (less calories), not because it improved your metabolism. 

You first said fasting kills your metabolism.  We said it doesn't.  Now you say fasting doesn't improve your metabolism. 

Studies have shown that metabolism goes UP during a fast.  At least for the first 2-3 days.  If your argument is that fasts longer than 72 hours will hurt your metabolism, I could entertain that.  What I've read from doctors like Jason Fung is that the BMR increases, then comes back down to normal or slightly below normal, as the fast extends out.

Maybe you're also talking about different people.  A lean person should not fast for days on end.  I believe you'd be right that it would hurt their metabolism, and eat their muscle.  They don't have any stored energy to live off.  But a fat person like myself has plenty of energy.  The body can fast and not hurt because it has plenty to eat.

[Longhorn Al 440]

I'll be a guinea pig.  Last year, I did a couple of body scans and did a BMR test.  I was doing Keto, but not fasting a ton.  I'm doing a lot of fasting now.  I'll give it another month or two of extended fasts to really get affected by it either way.  Then I'll do the tests again and post the results.

Off the top of my head, my BMR was around 2450.  It was about 200-250 below where it "should" be based on my size.

[Longhorn Al 440]

I saw this last year, but had forgotten which doctor it was.  He starts talking about energy wasting (vs. using and storing) at 23:25.  I was trying to think of this when we were talking about CICO.

 

Edited February 7, 2019 by Longhorn Al

[scottsins 1966]

I lost 90+ last year in 8+ months.  I can tell you exactly why I gained 40 of it back before January.  I left the reservation.  I ate pizza, Tex-Mex, burgers, bbq, onion rings, etc.  It was my old ways.  But even though I did that for the last 3-4 months of 2018, it was mostly water.  I say that because I lost 30+ in January and my ketones were higher than they've ever been.  My body was still fat-adapted.
I'm sure I have some underlying issues that I'm trying to correct, such as insulin resistance and fatty liver.  My metabolism was likely wrecked after years of yo-yo calorie restricted dieting.  My thyroid is a little out of whack, and my testosterone is low.  My cholesterol is also very low (100-120 total).  I'm just trying to work on my weight so that these things can heal. 
Once they do, and I get closer to my goal weight, I'll start planning how to eat and gain muscle while in a fasting lifestyle.  Maybe I'll be OMAD.  Maybe I'll do 48hr fasts, lift heavy, then re-feed on high protein and some complex carbs to spike my insulin and build muscle.  Then fast another 48. Rinse. Repeat.
I have a long way to go before I worry too much about that.  Fasting works.  My re-feeds don't always. haha  I'll get it dialed in.

Maybe it’s been mentioned, but have you seen an endocrinologist?

[Longhorn Al 440]

2 hours ago, scottsins said:

 

Maybe it’s been mentioned, but have you seen an endocrinologist?

Multiple ones.  They never have any clue about anything.  Nobody even gives me a guess as to why my cholesterol is chronically low despite my obesity.  Cholesterol is the building block for testosterone and other hormones.  They have to be linked.  My TSH levels were high a couple years ago.  I did a few months of meds, then just quit taking them.  Went back last year and my TSH was normal.  All I had done was go Keto.  Endo just said, "Huh. That's weird."  Great insight.

My current one is at least younger and open to new ideas.  But if anyone has a suggestion for a top-of-the-line endo in the Austin area, please share.

[Llano Estacado 1257]

“Starvation mode” and “Metabolic damage” are myths cooked up by Cosmo and Men’s Fitness to sell diet plans.

BMR is based on mass and body composition. If you reduce your Leanbodymass by 25% by being in a calorie deficit for months or years, your body isn’t in “starvation mode” you’ve lowered your BMR by reducing your over all mass.

Look up the Michigan starvation experiment. Our bodies don’t all of a sudden get more or less efficient based on inputs. When comparing a 94 Caprice with the 305 to a 69 with the 454 does anyone say the 94 is in “starvation mode”? The caprice has undergone some sort of fuel efficiency damage and the engine needs to be reset?

[scottsins 1966]

Multiple ones.  They never have any clue about anything.  Nobody even gives me a guess as to why my cholesterol is chronically low despite my obesity.  Cholesterol is the building block for testosterone and other hormones.  They have to be linked.  My TSH levels were high a couple years ago.  I did a few months of meds, then just quit taking them.  Went back last year and my TSH was normal.  All I had done was go Keto.  Endo just said, "Huh. That's weird."  Great insight.
My current one is at least younger and open to new ideas.  But if anyone has a suggestion for a top-of-the-line endo in the Austin area, please share.

I see Dr. Ozer at the Round Rock location of Texas Diabetes and Endo. I fully endorse him.

[pearlandhorn 3269]

I gained 3 pounds last week on a 2 days trip to New Orleans.  Fucking old fashioneds.

Back to 209.8 this morning.  Really been hitting the gym hard lately (4x per week).  Also, taking protein powder on gym days and I feel a lot better throughout the day.

[troph 24781]

 

Good news is it’s not all fat.

Is the rest water? I was on the carb gravy train for about a week and a half and am now a week back on super low carb and I dropped 9 lbs in one week. I know that’s all water.

[troph 24781]

1 hour ago, thestud said:

 

 

I’ll have to find the study and read more in depth for what the rest is but it’s safe to assume that a lot of it is water. I don’t take too many things at face value, but when it comes to guys like Ben, Layne Norton and the others I mentioned above I will.
I’m off work today, I’ll find it and bring it back here for you sometime this afternoon. Heading to the store for the rest of my ingredients for some deer chili. This 50 degree temp swing is bullshit.

 

 

no need on account of me. 

my next quest for knowledge - via experiment-  is whether super low carb (*not Keto* but specifically:  <20g of net carbs per day, all natural carbs (no breads, pastas, rice, potatoes, beans, chips, crackers, cookies, processed sugars, etc. - so think tomatoes, berries, yogurt, carrots, veggies, etc. for carbs)) and the same intense exercise so CICO is well balanced will help me lose 5 lbs of tummy fat.  I'd rather not go under the knife but like hell I'm gonna go *another* summer with a fit body but with this tummy.  so I'm on a 60 day attempt as my gf says it will work (she's a keto gal).  we will see. 

[Lobwedgephil 1139]

4 minutes ago, troph said:

no need on account of me. 

my next quest for knowledge - via experiment-  is whether super low carb (*not Keto* but specifically:  <20g of net carbs per day, all natural carbs (no breads, pastas, rice, potatoes, beans, chips, crackers, cookies, processed sugars, etc. - so think tomatoes, berries, yogurt, carrots, veggies, etc. for carbs)) and the same intense exercise so CICO is well balanced will help me lose 5 lbs of tummy fat.  I'd rather not go under the knife but like hell I'm gonna go *another* summer with a fit body but with this tummy.  so I'm on a 60 day attempt as my gf says it will work (she's a keto gal).  we will see. 

How is that different than Keto? And you're considering a surgery for 5 pounds? 

[troph 24781]

16 minutes ago, thestud said:

Troph, I would suggest that you’re taking in more calories than you think. Are you measuring everything you eat? A digital scale at wal mart is $19.

I’m not trying to be condescending or elitist, it’s an honest to god observation that most people that think they’re eating less actually are eating in a caloric surplus. Try weighing and measuring your food. It will help you to truly understand how much 6oz of chicken is, or how much one cup of cooked rice or 4oz of potato is. Another common problem I’ve seen is folks weighing their food before they cook it. Just some ideas, some of which come from my own personal experiences.

you don't sound condescending or elitist, though you might be elite 🙂.  I'm actually wondering how to get over this hump because even working out I can gain weight so fast.  and not keeping up with CI is the struggle when I go off the rails.  no doubt the last 2-3 weeks I was - and I gained 8-10 lbs because of it.  poked my head in here even to get motivated again.  I picked up the intensity of exercise after thanksgiving and all through december and have kept it up.  the cheeseburger and fries temptation isn't for nothing I'm depleted when I want them but it wrecks the in/out balance for sure.  this week I think I'm under.  and I do count calories when I'm good.   I think I probably burn 800-1300 per workout (60-120 mins).  that's what the online calculators suggest anyway (example: 20 miles of spin at a moderate/intense level with 30 mins of high intensity weights and core exercises before - probably 20 stations/rep cycles).  and before dinner I'm usually eating something like this during the day (in no particular order):  yogurt (140 stated calories), protein shake/bar (190 stated calories), two eggs with a half a tablespoon of butter (210 calories), bullet proof coffee (calories in the butter of 100 and a shot of MCT oil 100 calories).  I'll add some berries too (call that 70 calories).  so that's about 800 calories which leaves me close to net zero after a workout.  dinner is harder to measure especially with a beer or wine or a cocktail and even worse if I go out to eat even if healthy - but I usually assume anything south of 1500 "good" calories and I'm safe, so I can eat a lot for dinner.  the problem is I don't know my baseline CO and also I have no portion control when I decide I've earned pizza or a burger.  I think there is something really interesting to me about the type of calorie and that's what I'm wondering about.  I hope I can do it, I don't think I've ever gone even 30 days without real pizza or a burger.

Edited February 7, 2019 by troph

[troph 24781]

47 minutes ago, Lobwedgephil said:

How is that different than Keto? And you're considering a surgery for 5 pounds? 

well it might be more than 5, it's just a stubborn potbelly.  who wants that?  is surgery for a stubborn tummy roll vain?  don't answer that.  I did cool sculpting and it was a stupid waste of money.

it's not keto because I don't avoid natural carbs, I'm not concerned about being in ketosis, and as an example if I have a tennis match and need a jolt I'm totally okay with eating a fat juicy orange in between sets. 

Edited February 7, 2019 by troph

[Llano Estacado 1257]

No one said anything about starvation mode, I referred to fasting as a starvation period. Since you know more than the likes of Alan Aragon, Layne Norton, Spencer Nadolsky and Ben Carpenter; I suggest you message them all and let them know that metabolic damage is bullshit and doesn’t exist. Please post their responses here.

Sorry that post came across a little stronger than I wanted.

Dr Norton knows more about nutrition than I ever will or ever care to know, no doubt. I’m not going to pay to subscribe to his plan to get the latest and greatest. This was his conclusion from a paper he wrote in 2014 I recalled it from when I was trying to cut weight in ‘15-16. I found it interesting particularly the last sentence, when the guy selling refeeds says I need to study the efficacy of refeeds I took notice and it left on impression on me.

“To accomplish these goals, it is recommended to approach weight loss in a stepwise, incremental fashion, utilizing small energy deficits to ensure a slow rate of weight loss. Participation in a structured resistance training program and adequate protein intake are also imperative. More research is needed to verify the efficacy of periodic refeeding and reverse dieting in supporting prolonged weight reduction and attenuating post-diet fat accretion.”

The top athletes and body builders in the world trying to go from 5.1% to 5.0% bf may be affected by mitochondrial efficiency and exacting hormone balances when trying to maintain ounces of muscle and LBM and lose ounces of BF and H20. The idea that Joe Blow trying to lose 20lbs of belly fat stalled at 15% bf 10lbs above his goal due to metabolic damage is and always will be BS. Joe Blow has miscalculated his caloric intake or his TDEE.

The biggest component of TDEE is BMR. Re-baseline every few weeks. You’re digesting less, pumping blood and oxygen to a smaller area, moving less mass when your performing the same cardio circuit you did 3 months ago to start your diet, etc.

[ztejas 43411]

58 minutes ago, troph said:

well it might be more than 5, it's just a stubborn potbelly.  who wants that?  is surgery for a stubborn tummy roll vain?  don't answer that.  I did cool sculpting and it was a stupid waste of money.

it's not keto because I don't avoid natural carbs, I'm not concerned about being in ketosis, and as an example if I have a tennis match and need a jolt I'm totally okay with eating a fat juicy orange in between sets. 

Doubt you'll like this answer. You wanna get rid of the belly fat? Keep doing what you're doing, but quit the booze. 

I know it "isn't that simple", but it really is that simple.