2019 Texas Football Season - "#8 Go Fuck Yourself Bitch"

[South Austin 52521]

9 minutes ago, Katfid54 said:

Nightmare fuel.

So you see black people as objects of fear?  Figures.

[Tex Long 4402]

Not sure any fucks ought be given over anything said or written by anybody named  Scooby.

 

EDIT unless the said Scooby is in fact a canine, and even then only the fact and not the content might be fuck-giving worthy.

[Nivek 16945]

Never understood this type of pretzel logic.  So Texas has to replace 8 starters on a defense that was putrid in pass defense, and somehow it's impossible for the defense to be better?  Perhaps one should look at those replacements and determine if they're are an improvement over the players that have left.  Without knowing the minutiae like the Surly elite, I would say yes.  As for growing pains, do these blowhards not realize that the new eight starters didn't just sit on the bench all year biding their time on the pine, they actually played in games and stuff.
I think some pundits are in for a rude awakening when this D shuts down Burrow and Hurts with ease.

You have to understand most sports analysts have to qualify for the job by receiving a frontal lobotomy and electro-shock therapy. They mindlessly parrot one another to gain consensus and acceptance.


We heard how potent Mizzou’s offense was and they got clowned. Next was Georgia to get clowned. Same for OU. Cut down the penalties and make payments to b12 refs and we are going to be fine.

[BERT 4380]

40 minutes ago, pearlandhorn said:

Nothin' but a peanut!

Light weight, baaaaabyyyyy!!

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3868]

43 minutes ago, Herpa Derpa said:

Never understood this type of pretzel logic.  So Texas has to replace 8 starters on a defense that was putrid in pass defense, and somehow it's impossible for the defense to be better?  Perhaps one should look at those replacements and determine if they're are an improvement over the players that have left.  Without knowing the minutiae like the Surly elite, I would say yes.  As for growing pains, do these blowhards not realize that the new eight starters didn't just sit on the bench all year biding their time on the pine, they actually played in games and stuff.

I think some pundits are in for a rude awakening when this D shuts down Burrow and Hurts with ease.

They omit Texas was the only team is the nation to play 5 games against top 10 passing teams, 6 games against top 20 passing teams, and the Heisman winner twice.

Edited June 12, 2019 by ShaggyBevo RIP

[Knoxtnhorn 6060]

Agree with y'all.  Both the mags I've purchased thus far - Lindy's and Athlon's - have no problem taking this to another level.  I can't recall the exact wording, but it was something like, "OU only has one returning offensive lineman and one returning receiver; however, they'll be replaced by incoming freshmen with very little drop off" or somesuch.

[texifornia 57012]

8 starters is a lot. There will be growing pains. The new guys are definitely talented, though.

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

27 minutes ago, Tex Long said:

Not sure any fucks ought be given over anything said or written by anybody named  Scooby.

 

EDIT unless the said Scooby is in fact a canine, and even then only the fact and not the content might be fuck-giving worthy.

[BigHorn'13 3370]

In addition to all the things mentioned for reasons of blowing leads, I'll throw out that it'll be interesting to see how Herman manages practices during the season. 

Practice? Yes, practice. It seems the practice during season is either too rough (resulting in a lot of concussions) or not rough enough (I'm thinking of the week after the tech game when Orlando said they needed to "tackle" more in practice.) Herman needs to find a balance this season and the schedule sets up favorably for it. Obviously his mo is physicality so practices need to be hard consistently (your mom) but with a little more restraint. 

[Eggo 3977]

2 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Maybe Duv was in slot during a 4th quarter crossing route catch vs blOU in Cotton Bowl??

That makes him a nightmare in the slot? I've always thought of Duvernay as a burner on the outside thanks to his straight line speed, but I guess we're hyping his slot skills now. 

[sith_horn 2407]

9 hours ago, Tex-19 said:

Agree that most of it is play calling but I think the main problem is on defense. The defense gets conservative and starts getting carved up, suddenly allowing 45 second TD drives after holding up well the rest of the game (i.e. OU game). And yes, our run game hasn't been good enough to just pound out the clock yet we have continued to try to - hopefully Hand and better talent fixes this part.

UGA game is another good example except they actually fixed it - defense started getting conservative in the 4th and UGA quickly marched down the field. After a quick offensive fail, game doesn't seem so done yet. Next drive, TO gets aggressive with blitzes and they go 3-out. Offense is able to kill some time and by then game's pretty much over.

This x 1000. Prevent defense or whatever you want to call it. Not sure if Orlando does this at Herman's bidding or of his own accord, but when it happens I want to smash things.

[Herpa Derpa 6126]

1 hour ago, Tex Long said:

Not sure any fucks ought be given over anything said or written by anybody named  Scooby.

 

EDIT unless the said Scooby is in fact a canine, and even then only the fact and not the content might be fuck-giving worthy.

Eh, Scooby is ok for the most part.  It's that douche Scrappy that's always throwing out the bullshit hot take clickbait.  

[Sejjr 3246]

Of the "8 starters" we have to replace on defense, at least half will be upgrades. "Returning Experience" in college football is an often overrated data point. And it is hilarious how certain teams are just immune to that pre-season caution. OU this year is getting a pass on all their losses on offense, for example.

I guess Texas won't truly "be back" until we start reading how the replacements won't miss a beat.

[Bevo14 8337]

4 hours ago, Sejjr said:

Of the "8 starters" we have to replace on defense, at least half will be upgrades. "Returning Experience" in college football is an often overrated data point. And it is hilarious how certain teams are just immune to that pre-season caution. OU this year is getting a pass on all their losses on offense, for example.

I guess Texas won't truly "be back" until we start reading how the replacements won't miss a beat.

The funniest part is that our defense will probably be better this season

[victory88 5669]

oh noes, if only we had two 5 star CBs to replace Boyd and Davis and if only we had a badass NT to replace Chris Nelson.  Shark and Ossai are better than Wheeler and Johnson combo.  This defense will be better than last years.  Hager, Nelson, Davis, Boyd, Wheeler were just okay.  

[thepop 4409]

I like the line about not having a contingency plan if Sam is out. It’s called a backup quarterback. 

[Slacks 6821]

That makes him a nightmare in the slot? I've always thought of Duvernay as a burner on the outside thanks to his straight line speed, but I guess we're hyping his slot skills now. 

He catches the ball and is a matchup problem for safeties and LBs... He doesn't have to have elite hip swivel because he can just leave those guys on one move...

So unless the defense has a fast, run supporting guy to play there, the offense gets to rpo right to him... Defenders sag, free run or dump to RB... Defenders play run, Dev can house a drag or post...

He can make things go. We'll see.

[Vito Andolini 9126]

22 hours ago, Reese Bennett said:

Dan Jenkins came and spoke to my Sports in Literature class. He was decently funny in person but didn’t match the built-up expectations I had after reading his books. Meanwhile, Clemens slept through most of it. 

I think I had the same class back in the early 80’s. Jenkins may have visited us, but I do specifically recall Pete Gent speaking. Vance Bedford was also in the class along with several other athletes. One of my favorite courses at Texas, although the prof seemed to put way too much historical importance on Hobey Baker. 

[LTtxfan 49268]

• Russell Brown      @RussNFLDraft

Friday afternoon I’ll be joining.  @YourboyQ254
on. @1660ESPN
to talk about Texas offensive lineman, Zach Shackelford! Recently, I put together my thoughts and some clips of the type of player he is and can become. Can’t wait to chat with Q! #HookEm

Center Zach Shackelford of Texas: Sky-High Potential

We've seen a trend of first round centers in the NFL Draft over the last three years. Could Zach Shackelford of Texas be an addition to that trend? [...]

cover1.net

6:16 PM · Jun 12, 2019

[LTtxfan 49268]

13 hours ago, torre said:

Pardon if this has been discussed.    SI article writer interviews.

 

We've hit the lull of the college football offseason, which gives plenty of opportunity to talk about what's to come. It also means plenty of opportunity for expectations to be raised, with optimism for 2019 reigning across the country during the heat of the summer months. But inevitably, come fall, some teams will fall short after all that buildup. For this week's roundtable, we asked our writers to consider those expectations and which programs might struggle to meet them.

Which team near the front of many people's offseason hype trains are you feeling uneasy about this season?

Scooby Axson: For all the constant talk about how Texas is back, especially after winning 10 games for the first time this decade (there are many that have picked the Longhorns to make some national championship noise), the lack of depth—especially on the defensive end—has to have Tom Herman concerned. Breaking in eight starters on that side of the ball, plus having no real contingency plan if quarterback Sam Ehlinger gets hurt, might have Texas looking up at Oklahoma once again.

Laken Litman: Texas A&M exceeded expectations in Jimbo Fisher’s first year, winning nine games, beating LSU in seven overtimes and finishing second in the SEC West. As Fisher enters Year 2, he has to be feeling confident with veteran quarterback Kellen Mond, having a handful of proven receivers, rising sophomore Jashaun Corbin coming into replace reigning SEC rushing leader Trayveon Williams, and Mike Elko’s defense shaping up to reload after losing its top six tacklers. But there’s reason for skepticism in 2019. How will this group handle one of the nation’s toughest schedules, potentially facing five top-10 opponents? The Aggies may have nearly beaten Clemson at home last year, but this time they travel to Death Valley and face the defending national champs led by the now seasoned QB Trevor Lawrence. That game is followed by a trip through the SEC West gauntlet, and eventually, a date with Georgia in late November.

Joan Niesen: I have to go with Michigan here. Yes, I got the memo about the Wolverines’ spring game and the skill players who excelled, and I know such performances have been few and far between—whether in real games or scrimmages—during Jim Harbaugh’s tenure. Josh Gattis was an impressive hire at offensive coordinator, but last we saw of Michigan, it was getting pummeled by Florida in the Peach Bowl, and in an always-tough Big Ten, it might take more than one offseason for Gattis’s changes to take root. That’s not to say the Wolverines won’t have a strong grasp on the top 25 this fall—they’re also the beneficiaries of a doable early-season schedule—but rather to remind everyone that this team has been a years-long work-in-progress.

Ross Dellenger: Texas. This is a product of the hype and the hype alone, because I do think the Longhorns are contenders, and I like Sam Ehlinger at QB, but the "Texas is back" talk is so overpowering that the Horns can't possibly meet the expectations. Any team that must replace eight defensive senior starters will have some early-season growing pains, and that's not mentioning a pass defense that ranked 110th nationally last season. The Horns feel like a solid top-20 team, but these CFP projections are shooting awfully high.

https://www.si.com/college-football/2019/06/11/preseason-hype-texas-michigan-texas-am-aggies

 

How's 247 Article analyzing years at Texas where # of Defensive starters lost were high in previous years...

https://247sports.com/college/texas/LongFormArticle/Texas-Longhorns-Football-2019-defense-Todd-Orlando-replacing-starters-Tom-Herman-Jeffrey-McCulloch-Keondre-Coburn-132794641/#132794641_3   

Here's a couple excerpts:  

#1. "The loss of eight starters — including a pair of picks in the 2019 NFL Draft in Charles Omenihu (fifth round, Houston Texans) and Kris Boyd (seventh round, Minnesota Vikings) — shouldn’t be cast aside as though it’s a meaningless bit of information. Nevertheless, merely using a number to show experience (or lack thereof) is as nuanced as using raw statistics (total yards allowed, passing yards per game allowed, etc.) to determine whether a defense is a success or a failure.   Dig a little deeper into the numbers (and, more importantly, what the numbers represent) and one can better quantify the challenge facing Todd Orlando. The specific number in question is 233, which is the number of combined career starts of the eight departed Longhorns who started at least one game last season (those eight combined to play in 366 games).

That’s the highest number of combined starts lost from one season to the next for any Texas defense in the current decade by a landslide. The previous high was the 200 combined career starts the 2015 defense had to make up for when the likes of Quandre Diggs, Cedric Reed, Mykkele Thompsonand Steve Edmond ran out of eligibility and both Malcom Brown and Jordan Hicks left the program with one season left to play (Hicks chose not to return for what would’ve been a sixth season).  The result was the 2015 defense under Vance Bedford and Charlie Strong going down as one of the worst in school history. With Hassan Ridgeway playing a portion of the year at less than 100 percent, further depleting an inexperienced defensive line, those Longhorns set a school record for the most total yards per game allowed (452.6), they accounted for the third-worst rushing defense in program history (219.2 yards per game allowed), the 30.3 points per game they allowed is also No. 3 on the school’s season-season list for futility and they currently rank No. 7 in the most yards per play allowed in one season (5.6).  

Overall, Texas has had an up-and-down decade defensely. For every defense able to pull its own weight to help the cause (2010, 2011, 2014 and 2017), the Longhorns have had units go on to post some of the worst defensive seasons in the history of the program (2012, 2013, 2015, 2016). When looking at each year when there’s a dip in defensive production from one campaign to the next, identifying where the departed experienced starters played is perhaps more important than the number in question. " 

 

#2. "Texas does indeed have a lot of starters to replace on defense who played a lot of football, but how the holes created by those aforementioned departed Longhorns get filled will be the biggest factor in determining if Orlando can buck the trend of a boatload of experience leaving leading to a defensive letdown the following season. That’s precisely why Horns247’s recent ranking of the most important Longhorns entering the season includes Keondre Coburn at No. 8 and Jeffrey McCulloch at No. 2 because if those two players fail to deliver what the defense needs from them, there’s little chance of Orlando’s defense being as good as it has been over the past two seasons.  Orlando has the benefit of a safety group that, if healthy, might be the nation’s best with Brandon Jones, Caden Sterns and B.J. Foster unquestionably ranking among the best 11 players Orlando can put on the field. He also has numbers along the defensive line with Coburn, Gerald Wilbon, Ta'Quon Graham, Malcolm Roach, Jamari Chisholm and Moro Ojomo counting among the nine different bodies who helped hold Georgia’s SEC-leading rushing attack to 72 yards in the team’s Allstate Sugar Bowl win.  

Along with Orlando’s defense posting a strong close to 2018 after a mid-season slide, what Orlando did in the 2017 Academy Sports + Outdoors Texas Bowl — holding an offense that entered the game averaging 39.3 points and 511.5 yards per game to a single touchdown to two touchdowns and 320 total yards while forcing four turnovers in a 33-16 win — stands out since he did it without the services of Elliott, Hill, Jefferson and Nelson due to either injury, suspension or a player’s decision to sit out.   If there’s a silver lining in the doom and gloom of what history suggests, it’s that Orlando has been here before. He and his defensive staff just have to be better than they’ve been before when it comes to plugging holes and surging ahead if the 2019 season is going to match or exceed the hype."

Edited June 13, 2019 by LTtxfan

[Machinator 32099]

 

[Nivek 16945]

I like the line about not having a contingency plan if Sam is out. It’s called a backup quarterback. 

If OU loses JH?

[Herpa Derpa 6126]

17 minutes ago, Nivek said:

If OU loses JH?

If Clemson loses TL?   It's a bullshit line that applies to 98% of college programs.

[ztejas 43480]

1 hour ago, Machinator said:

 

I want some Papadeaux 

[Machinator 32099]

 

[Machinator 32099]

 

[Bodacious Bevo 3584]

Lotta hubris in the last page

The defense was frustrating to watch last year and I think that's clouding some people's judgment. Those frustrating moments stand out and people just assume we can fix those problems while ignoring the stuff the defense did right. Boyd was boom or bust (mostly bust) in coverage, but he was really good against the run and playing screen passes. People (myself included) are optimistic about Cook as a coverage corner, but how will he do on the couple of sweeps and screens he'll face each game? Omenihu wasn't just a great player, he was also really clutch. If we end up in a Baylor situation next year, who do we trust to get pressure and force a bad throw on the final down? 

Just because a bunch of these new guys were highly ranked recruits doesn't mean anything. Even in great recruiting classes, only half of a class (usually less) will become quality starters. The numbers game is not on our side here. At least a couple of the guys y'all are mentioning are going to disappoint. That's the nature of sports and being human. It think it's safe to expect improvement at a couple of spots (Hager, BLB, S), but improvement at any other positions shouldn't be taken for granted. 

The take that Shark/Ossai is better than Wheeler/Johnson is the perfect example of a desperate attempt to justify an end result. Ossai doesn't even play ILB. It's a nonsense comparison. It's like saying CB will be better because of Overshown. Just not an honest evaluation of the situation. I feel like a lot of fans are falling victim to confirmation bias  in regards to their belief that the defense will improve.

Plus, the elephant in the room is that several our defense's poor performances were not the players' faults. We had a couple poor game plans and the staff put players in bad positions several times as well. Roach, Hager, and Locke all played out of position (which admittedly was out of necessity). Now we've got McCulloch at rover and Foster at NB. Again it's kind of necessary, but while both players are talented, I think it's fair to question whether those are their best positions. Great players might not have great performances if they are playing a position they're not best suited for. Plus, in both 2017 and 2018, it took TO and the staff several games to figure out our best lineups and maximize our talent. That was working with upperclassmen that had game tape to review. Now we have a lot of sophomores, several of which haven't even played meaningful D1 snaps. 

I hate how dismissive some people are being about our defensive concerns. I think we should expect growing pains next year. I'm guessing the defense will probably be about the same as this year. A couple of really good performances, a couple really bad performances. 

[ztejas 43480]

6 minutes ago, Bodacious Bevo said:

Lotta hubris in the last page

The defense was frustrating to watch last year and I think that's clouding some people's judgment. Those frustrating moments stand out and people just assume we can fix those problems while ignoring the stuff the defense did right. Boyd was boom or bust (mostly bust) in coverage, but he was really good against the run and playing screen passes. People (myself included) are optimistic about Cook as a coverage corner, but how will he do on the couple of sweeps and screens he'll face each game? Omenihu wasn't just a great player, he was also really clutch. If we end up in a Baylor situation next year, who do we trust to get pressure and force a bad throw on the final down? 

Just because a bunch of these new guys were highly ranked recruits doesn't mean anything. Even in great recruiting classes, only half of a class (usually less) will become quality starters. The numbers game is not on our side here. At least a couple of the guys y'all are mentioning are going to disappoint. That's the nature of sports and being human. It think it's safe to expect improvement at a couple of spots (Hager, BLB, S), but improvement at any other positions shouldn't be taken for granted. 

The take that Shark/Ossai is better than Wheeler/Johnson is the perfect example of a desperate attempt to justify an end result. Ossai doesn't even play ILB. It's a nonsense comparison. It's like saying CB will be better because of Overshown. Just not an honest evaluation of the situation. I feel like a lot of fans are falling victim to confirmation bias  in regards to their belief that the defense will improve.

Plus, the elephant in the room is that several our defense's poor performances were not the players' faults. We had a couple poor game plans and the staff put players in bad positions several times as well. Roach, Hager, and Locke all played out of position (which admittedly was out of necessity). Now we've got McCulloch at rover and Foster at NB. Again it's kind of necessary, but while both players are talented, I think it's fair to question whether those are their best positions. Great players might not have great performances if they are playing a position they're not best suited for. Plus, in both 2017 and 2018, it took TO and the staff several games to figure out our best lineups and maximize our talent. That was working with upperclassmen that had game tape to review. Now we have a lot of sophomores, several of which haven't even played meaningful D1 snaps. 

I hate how dismissive some people are being about our defensive concerns. I think we should expect growing pains next year. I'm guessing the defense will probably be about the same as this year. A couple of really good performances, a couple really bad performances. 

I don't think our coverage will be any better than last year. So in that I agree with you that we will give up 30, 40 points a couple times at least. 

However I find it hard to believe the pass rush won't improve - and in that I think we will be able to be a bit more versatile in terms of how we line up and the ways in which we can attack the passing game by getting to the quarterback. 

No way this is a shutdown defense - but I think it has the chance to be better than 2018's unit - if only marginally. 

[JFKFC 4890]

15 hours ago, Sejjr said:

Of the "8 starters" we have to replace on defense, at least half will be upgrades.

5 are clear upgrades.

1 is a likely upgrade.

1 is a push.

1 (DE) is a clear step back. 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18550]

We're taking the sports bra to whole other level this offseason.

WRT the defense... the real losses are Omenihu, Johnson, Boyd, Davis and maybe Nelson. I think we will be okay on the line. Coburn, Wilbon and the rest of the bodies should more than make up for Nelson. They seemed to replace Poona with much less and did an okay job. I think Ossai makes up for the pass rush that they lose in Omenihu. Having Roach healthy and actually playing in position should pay big dividends. I don't think the production will drop off up front. In fact, I expect improvement in the line.

I don't see a great replacement for Johnson. I know McCulloch appears to be in the best shape of his life and we have a JUCO, but I would be surprised if we didn't have some problems with our LBs in run support. Maybe they get something from the RS freshmen, but I'm not optimistic. And maybe they spend most of the time in nickel and dime and they can exploit the crazy safety depth so it doesn't matter as much. Still, LB (along with TE) appears to be the biggest weaknesses on this team from strictly a talent perspective.

At corner you know the talent is there but we just lost two guys who basically started for four years. And both of them had huge sophomore slumps if you remember. For four years Boyd was wildly inconsistent and fell for the pump fake 1000 times, but he was otherwise a really, really good shutdown college corner. Davis was also really solid and played great in the screen game and against the run. Again, people are going to need to recalibrate if they are expecting three sophomores (only one of whom played significant snaps, one played offense all season and the other one was mainly special teams) to come in and not skip a beat. I love the upside but there are going to be growing pains here. They are going to have to grow up fast and you can take a lot of lumps in this conference while you are trying to find your footing.

[Bodacious Bevo 3584]

3 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

We're taking the sports bra to whole other level this offseason.

WRT the defense... the real losses are Omenihu, Johnson, Boyd, Davis and maybe Nelson. I think we will be okay on the line. Coburn, Wilbon and the rest of the bodies should more than make up for Nelson. They seemed to replace Poona with much less and did an okay job. I think Ossai makes up for the pass rush that they lose in Omenihu. Having Roach healthy and actually playing in position should pay big dividends. I don't think the production will drop off up front. In fact, I expect improvement in the line.

I don't see a great replacement for Johnson. I know McCulloch appears to be in the best shape of his life and we have a JUCO, but I would be surprised if we didn't have some problems with our LBs in run support. Maybe they get something from the RS freshmen, but I'm not optimistic. And maybe they spend most of the time in nickel and dime and they can exploit the crazy safety depth so it doesn't matter as much. Still, LB (along with TE) appears to be the biggest weaknesses on this team from strictly a talent perspective.

At corner you know the talent is there but we just lost two guys who basically started for four years. And both of them had huge sophomore slumps if you remember. For four years Boyd was wildly inconsistent and fell for the pump fake 1000 times, but he was otherwise a really, really good shutdown college corner. Davis was also really solid and played great in the screen game and against the run. Again, people are going to need to recalibrate if they are expecting three sophomores (only one of whom played significant snaps, one played offense all season and the other one was mainly special teams) to come in and not skip a beat. I love the upside but there are going to be growing pains here. They are going to have to grow up fast and you can take a lot of lumps in this conference while you are trying to find your footing.

I agree with your second and third paragraphs. 

I generally agree with the first, that we'll be ok on the line. Graham/Wilbon/Roach is a fine but uninspiring lineup (kind of depends on what you expect from Roach which I don't want to get in to again). Ossai is a difference maker as a pass rusher, but we don't know how much he'll actually be on the field. It's unfortunate that he plays what is probably the least important position on the team. He'll likely come off in dime packages that aren't pass heavy situations. In 3rd and long or when we're protecting a lead I expect we'll see some lineups that move Roach to DT  and put Ossai at DE. I don't know if he can hold up there in standard downs though. The new hires at WVU/KU/Tech might make the BLB position more relevant but for now it's all just a big question mark.

[HtownHorn 14726]

17 hours ago, texifornia said:

8 starters is a lot. There will be growing pains. The new guys are definitely talented, though.

Yes, but due to various injuries/suspensions Texas also returns the following starters

Roach, McCulloch, Cook, Jones, Sterns, Foster, Boyce, Thompson, Ossai, Graham, Brown

[Huckleberry 33005]

5 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Nevertheless, merely using a number to show experience (or lack thereof) is as nuanced as using raw statistics (total yards allowed, passing yards per game allowed, etc.) to determine whether a defense is a success or a failure.   Dig a little deeper into the numbers...

...

With Hassan Ridgeway playing a portion of the year at less than 100 percent, further depleting an inexperienced defensive line, those Longhorns set a school record for the most total yards per game allowed (452.6), they accounted for the third-worst rushing defense in program history (219.2 yards per game allowed), the 30.3 points per game they allowed is also No. 3 on the school’s season-season list for futility and they currently rank No. 7 in the most yards per play allowed in one season (5.6).

Nice. The author couldn't even pay attention to his own example for two paragraphs.

[BrazilHorn 6616]

8 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Nice. The author couldn't even pay attention to his own example for two paragraphs.

He lost me when he called atn and arky sec west powerhouses. 

[HtownHorn 14726]

17 minutes ago, Bodacious Bevo said:

I agree with your second and third paragraphs. 

I generally agree with the first, that we'll be ok on the line. Graham/Wilbon/Roach is a fine but uninspiring lineup (kind of depends on what you expect from Roach which I don't want to get in to again). Ossai is a difference maker as a pass rusher, but we don't know how much he'll actually be on the field. It's unfortunate that he plays what is probably the least important position on the team. He'll likely come off in dime packages that aren't pass heavy situations. In 3rd and long or when we're protecting a lead I expect we'll see some lineups that move Roach to DT  and put Ossai at DE. I don't know if he can hold up there in standard downs though. The new hires at WVU/KU/Tech might make the BLB position more relevant but for now it's all just a big question mark.

Ossai never came off the field against Georgia. I think we know exactly that Ossai is the B backer in base and the rover in nickel packages. He's not coming off the field.

The big losses from last year are Omenihu and Johnson.

Other losses are Boyd and Davis in run support, and Nelson's ability to hold multiple blockers.

Coburn is probably more of a mix between Poona and Nelson. As he should be able to hold up in the run game, and also occasionally collapse the pocket.

I see Wheeler and McCulloch the same. Neither has lived up to expectations.

If will be interesting to see if Texas can play Foster at NB, because that allows Orlando to play Overshown at the F. I think the defense will be slightly improved from 2018, just because the athleticism across the board will be better and 2020 is going to be incredible with a lineup of

Graham-Coburn-Ojomo

??-Ossai-Overshown

Cook-Jamison-Sterns-Foster-Green

[GW Hayduke 1953]

Starters are better than backups until the starters leave and then the old backups are better than the old starters. If only we had a forward thinking DC that could anticipate who next year’s old starters are going to be so we can go ahead and replace them with this year’s backups

[Bodacious Bevo 3584]

25 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Ossai never came off the field against Georgia. I think we know exactly that Ossai is the B backer in base and the rover in nickel packages. He's not coming off the field.

The big losses from last year are Omenihu and Johnson.

Other losses are Boyd and Davis in run support, and Nelson's ability to hold multiple blockers.

Coburn is probably more of a mix between Poona and Nelson. As he should be able to hold up in the run game, and also occasionally collapse the pocket.

I see Wheeler and McCulloch the same. Neither has lived up to expectations.

If will be interesting to see if Texas can play Foster at NB, because that allows Orlando to play Overshown at the F. I think the defense will be slightly improved from 2018, just because the athleticism across the board will be better and 2020 is going to be incredible with a lineup of

Graham-Coburn-Ojomo

??-Ossai-Overshown

Cook-Jamison-Sterns-Foster-Green

Playing a 250lb BLB at rover--a position that requires sideline-to-sideline speed and the ability to navigate through traffic and attack holes created by the DL/Mac--sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. It didn't work last year but hey I guess we can run it back. If you meant to put him at Mac (kind of seems that way if you're listing him with Overshown), then that's something I've though about too. Byron Vaughns as well--at least he ran track in HS. But it takes an elite talent like Malik to be able to switch between ILB/OLB so I think it's unfair to expect that out of guys.

Ossai didn't come off the field against UGA because they run a pro style offense. That's the exception, not the norm in the Big 12. He'll play most/all snaps against LSU and maybe WVU/KU/Tech. The rest of the season it'll depend on matchups and situations. 

Also the other wildcard I forgot to mention is Jacoby Jones. A lineup of Jones/Coburn/Roach probably has the highest ceiling at DL next year. But he and Coburn shouldn't be counted on as impact players next year.

[victory88 5669]

Boyd and Davis are not big losses.  I think some of us have forgotten how fucking bad the two of them were during large portions of their time here.  Davis rode the bench his sophomore and junior years.  He stepped in just fine for Holton after he basically got kicked off the team. I think we can expect same same for Green.  Jalen Green is a beast and people have stated he may be the most athletic player on this entire defense.  Watch how great he was in run support in the spring game.  Athletically, he’s better than Davis.  Cook may be one of the best cover corners in the country.  He’s extremely advanced with his technique which made him a 5 star prospect.  You’re talking about two players in Boyd and Davis that were both bench in favor of John Bonney their junior years. I’m sorry, I’m not too concerned about corner.  We are inexperienced but this is a huge talent upgrade.  I’m expecting some growing pains but I think I will gladly take a DB group of So Sterns, Sr Jones, So Foster, So Cook, So green over last years group.  We lost a 5th round player in Deshon Elliot and Sterns came right in and played just as well if not better.  Foster is also a clear upgrade over PJ Locke.  He played better than Locke last year as a freshman, although at a different position.  I think he will do just fine at nickel.

On to LB.  Wheeler was terrible.  Johnson was good (that’s a loss forsure).  I think you’ll see better production from Shark over Wheeler.  Ossai is a completely different player than Johnson but when we are in nickel, you will see Shark and Ossai out there.  Ossai was our best player in the UGA game and I expect him to tremendously improve our pass rush this next year.

D-line.  Roach is an upgrade over Hager.  Huge upgrade.  Roach was considered the best player on the defense last year before his injury and they were playing him out of position.  We’ve seen how disruptive he is on the line.  He’s finally playing his natural position and healthy.  Chris Nelson was just okay.  I’m not sure he starts over sophomore Coburn.  Coburn has athleticism similar to Poona.  He lacked conditioning, strength and experience last year.  He came on towards the end and made some huge plays in the Georgia game.  Graham is a definite downgrade over Ominehu but he has a lot of of game experience and he will do just fine in his role.

If you gave me the option of Coburn over Nelson this year, I’d pick Coburn.  I’d also pick Foster over Locke and I’d sure as hell pick Cook and Green over Davis and Boyd.  By the time the cotton bowl rolls around, I expect this defense to be better than last years.  

[texifornia 57012]

2 minutes ago, victory88 said:

Boyd and Davis are not big losses.  I think some of us have forgotten how fucking bad the two of them were during large portions of their time here.  Davis rode the bench his sophomore and junior years.  He stepped in just fine for Holton after he basically got kicked off the team. I think we can expect same same for Green.  Jalen Green is a beast and people have stated he may be the most athletic player on this entire defense.  Watch how great he was in run support in the spring game.  Athletically, he’s better than Davis.  Cook may be one of the best cover corners in the country.  He’s extremely advanced with his technique which made him a 5 star prospect.  You’re talking about two players in Boyd and Davis that were both bench in favor of John Bonney their junior years. I’m sorry, I’m not too concerned about corner.  We are inexperienced but this is a huge talent upgrade.  I’m expecting some growing pains but I think I will gladly take a DB group of So Sterns, Sr Jones, So Foster, So Cook, So green over last years group.  We lost a 5th round player in Deshon Elliot and Sterns came right in and played just as well if not better.  Foster is also a clear upgrade over PJ Locke.  He played better than Locke last year as a freshman, although at a different position.  I think he will do just fine at nickel.

On to LB.  Wheeler was terrible.  Johnson was good (that’s a loss forsure).  I think you’ll see better production from Shark over Wheeler.  Ossai is a completely different player than Johnson but when we are in nickel, you will see Shark and Ossai out there.  Ossai was our best player in the UGA game and I expect him to tremendously improve our pass rush this next year.

D-line.  Roach is an upgrade over Hager.  Huge upgrade.  Roach was considered the best player on the defense last year before his injury and they were playing him out of position.  We’ve seen how disruptive he is on the line.  He’s finally playing his natural position and healthy.  Chris Nelson was just okay.  I’m not sure he starts over sophomore Coburn.  Coburn has athleticism similar to Poona.  He lacked conditioning, strength and experience last year.  He came on towards the end and made some huge plays in the Georgia game.  Graham is a definite downgrade over Ominehu but he has a lot of of game experience and he will do just fine in his role.

If you gave me the option of Coburn over Nelson this year, I’d pick Coburn.  I’d also pick Foster over Locke and I’d sure as hell pick Cook and Green over Davis and Boyd.  By the time the cotton bowl rolls around, I expect this defense to be better than last years.  

Nobody is saying the new guys aren't good at football. There is just virtually always a bedding-in period while new players get used to starting where they make basic alignment/mental mistakes, especially when eight guys are going through the same acclimation period at once, and double especially when our LBs are both mostly untested and not super highly-touted.

[victory88 5669]

1 minute ago, texifornia said:

Nobody is saying the new guys aren't good at football. There is just virtually always a bedding-in period while new players get used to starting where they make basic alignment/mental mistakes, especially when eight guys are going through the same acclimation period at once, and double especially when our LBs are both mostly untested and not super highly-touted.

I completely agree but the notion that this years defense will be as bad as the 2015 defense is just not true.  Which of our players lacks experience?  Roach has been playing starter snaps since his freshman year.  Graham and Wilbon have been in the strength program for 3-4 years now and have significant starter reps.  Coburn is definitey inexperienced but he may be the most talented player on the DL.  Shark has played a lot of football and has started before.  Ossai was arguably the best player during bowl preparation on defense.  He started the game and they kept him on the field over Wheeler when they went in nickel. 

We return 5 starters in Roach, Ossai, Foster, Sterns, Jones.  Our replacements for the another 3 spots are 2 seniors and a junior in Graham, Wilbon, and Shark that have all played meaningful snaps.  We replace our senior avg at best corners with two sophomore 5 star prospects.  

Also, this is now the 3rd year in the same defense and scheme.  I expect our coaches to develop this talent and I expect to see huge improvement now that Cook and Green are getting starter reps in practice.  Green looked very good out there in the spring game.  We’ll be okay.  Fuck LSU.  

[texifornia 57012]

5 minutes ago, victory88 said:

I completely agree but the notion that this years defense will be as bad as the 2015 defense is just not true.  Which of our players lacks experience?  Roach has been playing starter snaps since his freshman year.  Graham and Wilbon have been in the strength program for 3-4 years now and have significant starter reps.  Coburn is definitey inexperienced but he may be the most talented player on the DL.  Shark has played a lot of football and has started before.  Ossai was arguably the best player during bowl preparation on defense.  He started the game and they kept him on the field over Wheeler when they went in nickel.  

We return 5 starters in Roach, Ossai, Foster, Sterns, Jones.  Our replacements for the another 3 spots are 2 seniors and a junior in Graham, Wilbon, and Shark that have all played meaningful snaps.  We replace our senior avg at best corners with two sophomore 5 star prospects.  

Also, this is now the 3rd year in the same defense and scheme.  I expect our coaches to develop this talent and I expect to see huge improvement now that Cook and Green are getting starter reps in practice.  Green looked very good out there in the spring game.  We’ll be okay.  Fuck LSU.  

Oh we'll be better than 2015, no doubt. Either that or I'll die of liver failure by K-State.

[Born Burnt 6179]

2 hours ago, Bodacious Bevo said:

Lotta hubris in the last page

The defense was frustrating to watch last year and I think that's clouding some people's judgment. Those frustrating moments stand out and people just assume we can fix those problems while ignoring the stuff the defense did right. Boyd was boom or bust (mostly bust) in coverage, but he was really good against the run and playing screen passes. People (myself included) are optimistic about Cook as a coverage corner, but how will he do on the couple of sweeps and screens he'll face each game? Omenihu wasn't just a great player, he was also really clutch. If we end up in a Baylor situation next year, who do we trust to get pressure and force a bad throw on the final down? 

Just because a bunch of these new guys were highly ranked recruits doesn't mean anything. Even in great recruiting classes, only half of a class (usually less) will become quality starters. The numbers game is not on our side here. At least a couple of the guys y'all are mentioning are going to disappoint. That's the nature of sports and being human. It think it's safe to expect improvement at a couple of spots (Hager, BLB, S), but improvement at any other positions shouldn't be taken for granted. 

The take that Shark/Ossai is better than Wheeler/Johnson is the perfect example of a desperate attempt to justify an end result. Ossai doesn't even play ILB. It's a nonsense comparison. It's like saying CB will be better because of Overshown. Just not an honest evaluation of the situation. I feel like a lot of fans are falling victim to confirmation bias  in regards to their belief that the defense will improve.

Plus, the elephant in the room is that several our defense's poor performances were not the players' faults. We had a couple poor game plans and the staff put players in bad positions several times as well. Roach, Hager, and Locke all played out of position (which admittedly was out of necessity). Now we've got McCulloch at rover and Foster at NB. Again it's kind of necessary, but while both players are talented, I think it's fair to question whether those are their best positions. Great players might not have great performances if they are playing a position they're not best suited for. Plus, in both 2017 and 2018, it took TO and the staff several games to figure out our best lineups and maximize our talent. That was working with upperclassmen that had game tape to review. Now we have a lot of sophomores, several of which haven't even played meaningful D1 snaps. 

I hate how dismissive some people are being about our defensive concerns. I think we should expect growing pains next year. I'm guessing the defense will probably be about the same as this year. A couple of really good performances, a couple really bad performances. 

[LTtxfan 49268]

Great back and forth discussion on 2019 Texas Defense!! 

For the Horns to have better success in 2019 vs 2018, the offense has to: 

•  Win time of possession
• Run the ball better
• Score on avg. 35+ points per game 

Won't be surprised to see the 2019 Texas Defense give up on avg. 27-28pts per game.

2018 Stats Points per Game:

Texas    31.07      Opponents.   25.86

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by LTtxfan

[Machinator 32099]

Kenyatta Watson

 

[BigHorn'13 3370]

3 hours ago, Bodacious Bevo said:

Lotta hubris in the last page

The defense was frustrating to watch last year and I think that's clouding some people's judgment. Those frustrating moments stand out and people just assume we can fix those problems while ignoring the stuff the defense did right. Boyd was boom or bust (mostly bust) in coverage, but he was really good against the run and playing screen passes. People (myself included) are optimistic about Cook as a coverage corner, but how will he do on the couple of sweeps and screens he'll face each game? Omenihu wasn't just a great player, he was also really clutch. If we end up in a Baylor situation next year, who do we trust to get pressure and force a bad throw on the final down? 

Just because a bunch of these new guys were highly ranked recruits doesn't mean anything. Even in great recruiting classes, only half of a class (usually less) will become quality starters. The numbers game is not on our side here. At least a couple of the guys y'all are mentioning are going to disappoint. That's the nature of sports and being human. It think it's safe to expect improvement at a couple of spots (Hager, BLB, S), but improvement at any other positions shouldn't be taken for granted. 

The take that Shark/Ossai is better than Wheeler/Johnson is the perfect example of a desperate attempt to justify an end result. Ossai doesn't even play ILB. It's a nonsense comparison. It's like saying CB will be better because of Overshown. Just not an honest evaluation of the situation. I feel like a lot of fans are falling victim to confirmation bias  in regards to their belief that the defense will improve.

Plus, the elephant in the room is that several our defense's poor performances were not the players' faults. We had a couple poor game plans and the staff put players in bad positions several times as well. Roach, Hager, and Locke all played out of position (which admittedly was out of necessity). Now we've got McCulloch at rover and Foster at NB. Again it's kind of necessary, but while both players are talented, I think it's fair to question whether those are their best positions. Great players might not have great performances if they are playing a position they're not best suited for. Plus, in both 2017 and 2018, it took TO and the staff several games to figure out our best lineups and maximize our talent. That was working with upperclassmen that had game tape to review. Now we have a lot of sophomores, several of which haven't even played meaningful D1 snaps. 

I hate how dismissive some people are being about our defensive concerns. I think we should expect growing pains next year. I'm guessing the defense will probably be about the same as this year. A couple of really good performances, a couple really bad performances. 

Mostly agree but have a small quibble about Foster being at nickle. I think it'll be great. He was our best blitzer last year. Moving him closer to the LOS is exactly what TO should do. There's also the fact that he's got the better adequacy of dealing with the position, in this defense, than a speedy Thompson does. 

[BigHorn'13 3370]

1 hour ago, Bodacious Bevo said:

Playing a 250lb BLB at rover--a position that requires sideline-to-sideline speed and the ability to navigate through traffic and attack holes created by the DL/Mac--sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. It didn't work last year but hey I guess we can run it back. If you meant to put him at Mac (kind of seems that way if you're listing him with Overshown), then that's something I've though about too. Byron Vaughns as well--at least he ran track in HS. But it takes an elite talent like Malik to be able to switch between ILB/OLB so I think it's unfair to expect that out of guys.

Ossai didn't come off the field against UGA because they run a pro style offense. That's the exception, not the norm in the Big 12. He'll play most/all snaps against LSU and maybe WVU/KU/Tech. The rest of the season it'll depend on matchups and situations. 

Also the other wildcard I forgot to mention is Jacoby Jones. A lineup of Jones/Coburn/Roach probably has the highest ceiling at DL next year. But he and Coburn shouldn't be counted on as impact players next year.

Unless Dele becomes a MLB overnight, Ossai isn't coming off the field too much. I think you're underestimating his speed a little too. I can remember him running with either Ingram or Whittington on a wheel route in stride. He may be 250 but he's light on his feet and looks to have ILB potential. Ideal? No. Our LB depth chart isn't ideal. But once you remember the adage of "best 11" you can see how he'll stay in for all of our base packages. 

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

1 hour ago, texifornia said:

Nobody is saying the new guys aren't good at football. There is just virtually always a bedding-in period while new players get used to starting where they make basic alignment/mental mistakes, especially when eight guys are going through the same acclimation period at once, and double especially when our LBs are both mostly untested and not super highly-touted.

I seem to recall OSU moving and scoring at will against our backup corners last year.  They'll get better, and certainly can end up being better than Boyd and Davis.  I think they likely are athletically as Davis needed a sideline and safety help quite a bit of the time, and the Boyd tax had to be paid each game because his ability to peak into the backfield far exceeded his ability to makeup for peaking into the backfield.  But no conference tests and challenges its defensive secondaries like this one does, and it's damned hard to hide anyone for any length of time against virtually every opponent.

We're gonna miss Johnson and Omenihu most. GJ's elite speed covered for multiple sins the way that few can.  Dele racing to the sideline to make a play keeps me up at night.  I really wonder if we might have to luck into something akin to 2017's lightening package where someone like Overshawn gets quite a bit of time near the LOS and a lightbulb goes off in the staff's and player's head that ya know we should maybe like, run our best defensive package instead of tossing our best 11 defenders on the field and hope they mesh.

I honestly see the defense as about the same.  The offense, however, has a chance to really break out, and that might mean that our above average conference defense is more than enough on most Saturdays. 

[Bodacious Bevo 3584]

1 hour ago, victory88 said:

Boyd and Davis are not big losses.  I think some of us have forgotten how fucking bad the two of them were during large portions of their time here.  Davis rode the bench his sophomore and junior years.  He stepped in just fine for Holton after he basically got kicked off the team. I think we can expect same same for Green.  Jalen Green is a beast and people have stated he may be the most athletic player on this entire defense.  Watch how great he was in run support in the spring game.  Athletically, he’s better than Davis.  Cook may be one of the best cover corners in the country.  He’s extremely advanced with his technique which made him a 5 star prospect.  You’re talking about two players in Boyd and Davis that were both bench in favor of John Bonney their junior years. I’m sorry, I’m not too concerned about corner.  We are inexperienced but this is a huge talent upgrade.  I’m expecting some growing pains but I think I will gladly take a DB group of So Sterns, Sr Jones, So Foster, So Cook, So green over last years group.  We lost a 5th round player in Deshon Elliot and Sterns came right in and played just as well if not better.  Foster is also a clear upgrade over PJ Locke.  He played better than Locke last year as a freshman, although at a different position.  I think he will do just fine at nickel.

On to LB.  Wheeler was terrible.  Johnson was good (that’s a loss forsure).  I think you’ll see better production from Shark over Wheeler.  Ossai is a completely different player than Johnson but when we are in nickel, you will see Shark and Ossai out there.  Ossai was our best player in the UGA game and I expect him to tremendously improve our pass rush this next year.

D-line.  Roach is an upgrade over Hager.  Huge upgrade.  Roach was considered the best player on the defense last year before his injury and they were playing him out of position.  We’ve seen how disruptive he is on the line.  He’s finally playing his natural position and healthy.  Chris Nelson was just okay.  I’m not sure he starts over sophomore Coburn.  Coburn has athleticism similar to Poona.  He lacked conditioning, strength and experience last year.  He came on towards the end and made some huge plays in the Georgia game.  Graham is a definite downgrade over Ominehu but he has a lot of of game experience and he will do just fine in his role.

If you gave me the option of Coburn over Nelson this year, I’d pick Coburn.  I’d also pick Foster over Locke and I’d sure as hell pick Cook and Green over Davis and Boyd.  By the time the cotton bowl rolls around, I expect this defense to be better than last years.  

Roach was our best player before his injury...? I'm just going to leave that one alone. Also statements like "Cook may be one of the best cover corners in the country" are completely unfounded. 

As for the discussion about Ossai replacing Wheeler in dime packages and his snaps in the UGA game, I went back and found OB's deep dive for the sugar bowl. There were 64 total snaps. Wheeler and Johnson played all of them. Ossai played 53. Texas only ran dime on 17 snaps. Those are all by Alex Dunlap's count. I'm guessing that Wheeler/Johnson stayed at LB during dime, Ossai came off on most dime snaps, but stayed at DE (based on alignment, not whether he stayed standing or got into a down stance) in obvious pass rushing situations. 

I guess my ultimate point is that we will need a bunch of young guys to make big leaps next year in order to improve. If any of them struggle--and it's more likely than not that at least one does--then our defense will have weaknesses. It won't be bad, but it will have exploitable issues, just like last year's unit. I'm optimistic about all of them, but I'm also realistic in my understanding that not every great HS player will smoothly transition to being a great college player. It would be different if we had 3 unproven guys competing at each spot, but we don't. We generally have one unproven guy with the potential to be a difference maker at each position and that just isn't a recipe for a great defense. 

10 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Mostly agree but have a small quibble about Foster being at nickle. I think it'll be great. He was our best blitzer last year. Moving him closer to the LOS is exactly what TO should do. There's also the fact that he's got the better adequacy of dealing with the position, in this defense, than a speedy Thompson does. 

I kind of agree. Foster should be really good against the run and blitzing. I'm not sure how his cover skills will be. If he ends up being similar to PJ Locke in coverage but better against the run and when blitzing, will that be enough to be an impact player? I think BJ is great. Trust me my comment is a knock on him at all. I thought he was a top 3 player on our defense last year. But I'm also nervous that Riley could get him iso'd with some 5* receiver 20+ times next season.

5 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Unless Dele becomes a MLB overnight, Ossai isn't coming off the field too much. I think you're underestimating his speed a little too. I can remember him running with either Ingram or Whittington on a wheel route in stride. He may be 250 but he's light on his feet and looks to have ILB potential. Ideal? No. Our LB depth chart isn't ideal. But once you remember the adage of "best 11" you can see how he'll stay in for all of our base packages. 

If you're talking about this play from the spring game, that's McCulloch. I did find that encouraging for his Rover potential. Maybe Ossai did it too but I don't remember that. Also see abo

[Tylerocks 2553]

7 minutes ago, Bodacious Bevo said:

If you're talking about this play from the spring game, that's McCulloch. I did find that encouraging for his Rover potential. Maybe Ossai did it too but I don't remember that. Also see abo

There is another one at the 57:30 mark where Ossai sticks with Whittington on he wheel

[Bodacious Bevo 3584]

8 minutes ago, Tylerocks said:

There is another one at the 57:30 mark where Ossai sticks with Whittington on he wheel

Ah, very nice. I'm not going to place much value at all into a spring game, but it's good to at least see they have the ability to do that. Jalen Green too.