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David Beaty

cdain3

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Vertigo

Vertigo 20458

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Posted (edited)
On 3/13/2019 at 9:22 AM, Nivek said:


Bowl ban? Hahaha
scholarship limits? Who could tell the difference?

Ya but think about this. Kansas just graduated 37 seniors and have so many dead scholarship numbers, a self imposed reduction would make absolutely no difference to this season, nor would a bowl ban because they sure as shit arent going to one next year. Perfect cover for a bullshit move by their administration.

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Jhawk

Jhawk 1075

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Posted
On 3/13/2019 at 10:08 AM, TwiceHorn said:

Great question.  If "cause" was discovered later, it could certainly be a ground to stop paying and maybe recover payments made.  I don't think the issue of cause is "frozen" as of the date of termination.  However, later-discovered cause is always going to be iffy as a matter of proof.  If the "cause" actually cost the university money or other compensable damages, it might offset any payout due under the contract.  https://www.reedsmith.com/en/perspectives/1996/10/aftershock--afteracquired-evidence-employment-laws  It's a little different where the issue is termination for a discriminatory reason as opposed to simply a contractual matter. 

To katfid's point. firing for cause basically means the coach has breached the contract, ending the contract and the university's obligations under it.  Whereas firing without cause is essentially a breach by the university and obligates them to continue to perform/pay damages.  However, the termination provisions can provide their own remedies (full payment, partial payment, no payment, payment offset by future employment, etc. etc.), but the above is the general scenario.

Here is my no $9.95 take...

KU is getting investigated by the NCAA right now.  That isn't just in basketball, it looks to be football as well.  If the NCAA is involved, which we've been told that the NCAA has been alerted, then there is going to be SOMETHING.  Whether that is systemic cheating in football or beaty paid for a meal when he shouldn't have, who knows at this point.  

The argument that KU appears to be making, based on articles I've read, is that Beaty not only personally committed violations, but he also wasn't technically fired mid-season.  If he was fired, then the money would have been due, but he continued to get paychecks on schedule and the lump sum never became due until after violations were discovered.  So it isn't a recapture thing really because KU likely started cleaning out the closets when the basketball stuff came up and found the football stuff.  Now what did beaty do?  No idea.  But we must be confident enough that it is bad enough to pose a threat to his payout but not bad enough to pose a threat to the future of the program under Miles.

KU put the money with a 3rd party escrow group so it isn't necessarily about the money.  My guess is that we don't want him working in the conference, we don't want to have him walk away clean if there are penalties (which there will be), and we don't want to pay 100% of the money if we don't have to.  This seems like a settlement case to me where we either agree upon an unspecified sum (KU pays $3mm) or we settle for 50% or something like that.

The saddest part of all of this is that it looks like we paid all of that money over the last 4 years and we cheated to get 6 wins out of the deal.  Once again, why Beaty ever be employed by anyone, even as a towel boy is beyond me.

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Jhawk

Jhawk 1075

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On 3/14/2019 at 7:55 PM, Vertigo said:

Ya but think about this. Kansas just graduated 37 seniors and have so many dead scholarship numbers, a self imposed reduction would make absolutely no difference to this season, nor would a bowl ban because they sure as shit arent going to one next year. Perfect cover for a bullshit move by their administration.

This.  We come down hard on ourselves in football for a year or two and then we might be better off in basketball.  Other schools have done this when cleaning out the closets from terminated regimes.  Get the new coach a clean slate in the case of a rebuild.

On 3/26/2019 at 4:19 PM, Goodman said:

Mangino, Weiss, Gill all ended in abortions. Now they try to burn down a coach who worked his ass off to build an actual program after those 3 morons left ruins...fuck ku athletics.

It is verifiable that he did not work his ass off.  The fattest fuck of the 4 coaches was the only one who was willing to work hard.  Beaty was a shit coach, no way around it, and once it was known then he decided to offer whole juco teams scholarships to KU so he could save his ass for one more year.

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Skipper

Skipper 6406

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44 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

 

It is verifiable that he did not work his ass off.  The fattest fuck of the 4 coaches was the only one who was willing to work hard.  Beaty was a shit coach, no way around it, and once it was known then he decided to offer whole juco teams scholarships to KU so he could save his ass for one more year.

Yeah, I don't think the next guy will do any better.   It's a shit job.  Period.   And Snyder made KSU relevant relying on JUCO.

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Jhawk

Jhawk 1075

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2 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Yeah, I don't think the next guy will do any better.   It's a shit job.  Period.   And Snyder made KSU relevant relying on JUCO.

Miles can't do any worse so we have that going for us.  Snyder is an awful comparison.  He is arguably a top 5-7 coach all time.  Beaty is statistically a bottom 5 coach all time and the worst coach of all time by win percentage for coaches with 4 years experience.  Snyder was 18-26 in his first 4 years.  Beaty didn't take the JUCO route until year 4 when his head was on the chopping block.

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Chopper

Chopper 17427

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On 3/27/2019 at 7:49 AM, Leanderman said:

 

Hope it goes to court. The discovery phase might make for a good read.

Could be a blast.

 

3 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

Miles can't do any worse so we have that going for us.  Snyder is an awful comparison.  He is arguably a top 5-7 coach all time.  Beaty is statistically a bottom 5 coach all time and the worst coach of all time by win percentage for coaches with 4 years experience.  Snyder was 18-26 in his first 4 years.  Beaty didn't take the JUCO route until year 4 when his head was on the chopping block.

In his defense, most of the KU athletic budget was going toward paying for basketball players and building them a gold and marble palace in which to reside.

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49879

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Jhawk said:

Here is my no $9.95 take...

KU is getting investigated by the NCAA right now.  That isn't just in basketball, it looks to be football as well.  If the NCAA is involved, which we've been told that the NCAA has been alerted, then there is going to be SOMETHING.  Whether that is systemic cheating in football or beaty paid for a meal when he shouldn't have, who knows at this point.  

The argument that KU appears to be making, based on articles I've read, is that Beaty not only personally committed violations, but he also wasn't technically fired mid-season.  If he was fired, then the money would have been due, but he continued to get paychecks on schedule and the lump sum never became due until after violations were discovered.  So it isn't a recapture thing really because KU likely started cleaning out the closets when the basketball stuff came up and found the football stuff.  Now what did beaty do?  No idea.  But we must be confident enough that it is bad enough to pose a threat to his payout but not bad enough to pose a threat to the future of the program under Miles.

KU put the money with a 3rd party escrow group so it isn't necessarily about the money.  My guess is that we don't want him working in the conference, we don't want to have him walk away clean if there are penalties (which there will be), and we don't want to pay 100% of the money if we don't have to.  This seems like a settlement case to me where we either agree upon an unspecified sum (KU pays $3mm) or we settle for 50% or something like that.

The saddest part of all of this is that it looks like we paid all of that money over the last 4 years and we cheated to get 6 wins out of the deal.  Once again, why Beaty ever be employed by anyone, even as a towel boy is beyond me.

Jhawk..... Understand your bitterness on the lack of success that Beaty had at KU, but this stuff with not paying him just comes off like KU is looking for any excuse to not pay their ex-spouse that they just divorced plus keep them from getting a new job.  It will be surprising if Beaty doesn't get most of his money from KU anyway, and if this case does go to jury trial, Beaty may very well receive significant additional damages.

I realize that I am biased as a Horns fan,  but both CDC and Herman have worked with Beaty and seem to like him a lot.....

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Jhawk

Jhawk 1075

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1 hour ago, LTtxfan said:

Jhawk..... Understand your bitterness on the lack of success that Beaty had at KU, but this stuff with not paying him just comes off like KU is looking for any excuse to not pay their ex-spouse that they just divorced plus keep them from getting a new job.  It will be surprising if Beaty doesn't get most of his money from KU anyway, and if this case does go to jury trial, Beaty may very well receive significant additional damages.

I realize that I am biased as a Horns fan,  but both CDC and Herman have worked with Beaty and seem to like him a lot.....

I definitely think that’s how it looks. But the ncaa is up in our shit right now and if we end up with a bowl ban or some penalties in football then it won’t look like that at all. It’ll look like our ex cheated on us and did everything wrong in the relationship when the prenuptial agreement clearly stated no cheating. I don’t think KU is going to win much here or if there is even anything to win. But it’s easier to withhold payment than it is to go collect it if he’s already spent it on a boat for Lake Austin. 

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Goodman

Goodman 3280

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Let's follow the trail being laid out in Lawrence.

  1. Feds come after Adidas and shoe scumbags, leads to one of its biggest basketball brands-KU.
  2. NCAA runs 100% of its operations and all its profit comes from the money it makes off of March Madness
  3. Feds do not care about punishing a school, it's up to the toothless NCAA to punish one of its ATM machines
  4. KU knows if it can give the ncaa something, it will alleviate the basketball punishment
    1. Why not a sport and outgoing coach they do not care about (David Booth only cares about basketball, at least that is what he tells people here in Austin)

Fuck KU and its win at any cost for basketball culture, this is bottom of the barrel stuff they are trying to pull but it seems KU fans are buying it.

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49879

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35 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

I definitely think that’s how it looks. But the ncaa is up in our shit right now and if we end up with a bowl ban or some penalties in football then it won’t look like that at all. It’ll look like our ex cheated on us and did everything wrong in the relationship when the prenuptial agreement clearly stated no cheating. I don’t think KU is going to win much here or if there is even anything to win. But it’s easier to withhold payment than it is to go collect it if he’s already spent it on a boat for Lake Austin. 

Thanks.... Glad you expect KU will be paying Beaty

Many coaches (Saban, Charlie Strong) keep their jobs when NCAA infractions occur on their staff unless they do something stupid like "phone calls to a number associated with a female escort service"... haha.  Unless Beaty instructed others to commit or he committed major NCAA infractions, KU will need to pony-up his buyout pretty quick.

The coaching community does not look kindly on schools that fire and then try to sacrifice a former Head Football Coach to the NCAA unless there is proven to be significant wrongdoing.

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Jhawk

Jhawk 1075

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Thanks.... Glad you expect KU will be paying Beaty

Many coaches (Saban, Charlie Strong) keep their jobs when NCAA infractions occur on their staff unless they do something stupid like "phone calls to a number associated with a female escort service"... haha.  Unless Beaty instructed others to commit or he committed major NCAA infractions, KU will need to pony-up his buyout pretty quick.

The coaching community does not look kindly on schools that fire and then try to sacrifice a former Head Football Coach to the NCAA unless there is proven to be significant wrongdoing.

I think in some cases it is common to report minor violations when regime change happens.  I know we have done it after every coach since terry allen in 2003 (maybe this is why KU is where coaches die?) but we haven't withheld pay.  I think UNC has done it multiple times and I know a few other schools have.  Clears the slate, allows new coaches cover to boot players, etc.

I don't think that KU has much, if any, leverage here.  We definitely don't want to end up in court because if the 4* Louisiana guys got paid to come to KU and basketball players are getting paid to come to KU then that sounds like a systemic problem, also known as lack of institutional control.  With our last AD a lot of shady shit was happening and Beaty was his last stand.  I wouldn't doubt that he let Beaty do anything and everything he wanted in that last 1.5 years because it was the only chance the AD had at saving his own skin.

We're actually pretty lucky to have Jeff Long right now.  A lesser AD would be in way over his head.  I'd rather have a guy like Gene Smith or Tom Jurich right now but JL should be able to get us through this stuff with minimal damage.  I just hope he doesn't roll over for the NCAA.  We know what that gets you, I'd rather be defiant and fight them at this point when the NCAA is arguably at its weakest.

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Par4

Par4 149

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Posted
40 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Where's the Surly poster who posted about realtor showing Beaty houses..... time for an update?  😀

He didn't buy the house my wife had listed. I only knew he was shopping in Austin back in January. 

 

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Laga4

Laga4 1270

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On 3/14/2019 at 7:55 PM, Vertigo said:

Ya but think about this. Kansas just graduated 37 seniors and have so many dead scholarship numbers, a self imposed reduction would make absolutely no difference to this season, nor would a bowl ban because they sure as shit arent going to one next year. Perfect cover for a bullshit move by their administration.

Dam,  37 seniors. That's got to be a record.

Juco is a valid strategy,  but you need to manage it.  

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Machinator

Machinator 32102

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https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-kansas-basketball-charged-with-multiple-level-1-violations-including-lack-of-institutional-control-210015300.html

Quote

Kansas has been charged with lack of institutional control, three Level I violations in men’s basketball and there is a head coach responsibility charge against coach Bill Self, according to multiple sources. There also are allegations against football, sources added, although those are Level II violations. The football allegations include charges of allowing an extra coach to work during practice under former head coach David Beaty.

 

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field

field 242

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https://publicaffairs.ku.edu/sites/publicaffairs.ku.edu/files/docs/NOA to KU.pdf

6. [NCAA Division I Manual Bylaws 11.7.1.1, 11.7.3 and 11.7.6 (2017-18 and 2018-19)] 
It is alleged that between December 2017 to mid-October 2018, the institution's football team exceeded the limit on the number of coaches who may be employed by one. This occurred when Jeff Love (Love), football video coordinator (a noncoaching staff member), participated in technical and tactical instruction with football student-athletes and made or assisted in making tactical decisions with football student-athletes during on-field practices. Specifically: 

a. Between December 2017 through April 2018 and between August 2018 through mid-October 2018, Love met with the quarterback student-athletes six to 10 times in the quarterback meeting room of the football office and provided instruction while watching videos of practices and games. Love's instructions included, but were not limited to, identifying quarterback reads, coverage reads and adjustments and defensive fronts and alignments. 
b. During March 2018, Love provided on-field instruction to the quarterbacks on two or three occasions, including tips and adjustments to reading coverages. 
c. In August and September 2018, Love occasionally provided the quarterbacks instructional video through text messages via cellphone. 
 
7. [NCAA Division I Manual Bylaw 11.1.1.1 (2017-18 and 2018-19)] 
It is alleged that from December 2017 through mid-October 2018, David Beaty (Beaty), then head football coach, is presumed responsible for the violations detailed in Allegation No. 6 and did not rebut the presumption of responsibility. Specifically, Beaty did not demonstrate that he monitored his staff within the football program because Beaty knew that Jeff Love (Love), football video coordinator, was a former college quarterbacks coach, spent time with the quarterbacks on the team and, on at least one occasion, Beaty observed Love alone in a meeting with the quarterbacks watching film. Beaty failed to identify the red flags involving Love and further failed to ask pointed questions to confirm compliance with NCAA legislation. 

 

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