Big, Fast and Dumb: Bama in the CFP Final

[sushihorn 3,233]

Alabama looked like the bigger, stronger team tonight and they probably were.  They also looked like the faster team tonight and they might have been.  But most importantly, Bama certainly looked like the DUMBER team tonight and they definitely were that.  In a game that echoed the Sugar Bowl, an elite SEC team looked physically superior but got completely dominated.  Like Georgia's Jake Fromm, Tua Tagovailoa demonstrated arm strength and accuracy but a lack of reading ability which led to bad throws and turnovers. 

When his team got in a deep hole, he did not have the ability to lead them out of it - again echoing the earlier match up in Nawlins.  If we went back and watched their conference games, I'm sure we'd see Tua and Jake burning basic coverage schemes with simple, pre-snap reads and superior athletes catching and running with the ball.  That's certainly what I saw when reviewing Georgia vs Mizzou, Florida, Tennessee, Auburn, Kentucky and to an extent Bama.  When faced with comparable athletes running better coverage schemes, the vaunted pass efficiency numbers (Tagovailoa #1, Fromm #5) vaporized like spit in a blast furnace.  Both of Tua's picks were mis-reads of the coverage.  Like Fromm he mostly threw underneath the coverage or to open men in single coverage for easy reads.

Clemson has excellent DL so they were able to mostly contain Bama's running game with a 6 man box and minimal games.  Once they put the game on the QB's shoulders it was pretty much over.  In contrast Trevor Lawrence was truly impressive in his accuracy and reads of the defense.  He made some amazing throws on corner / deep out routes against zone and double coverage.  His ability to sustain drives even after major penalties prevented Bama from getting the short fields their offense needed.  Lawrence's passing ability was complemented by a nice ground game incorporating misdirection and a really, really good O Line.

In another parallel to the Sugar Bowl, poor special teams play helped to put Bama in a hole.  The missed XP them points when they had the lead.  The kick out of bounds gave Clemson good field position to start their 3rd TD drive which put them in the lead for good.  The pathetic fake FG when Clemson was obviously ready for it was a terrible decision and Saban should have had his offense on the field if he wanted to go for it in that situation.

I think Texas did a lot of damage to the invincible SEC myth and Clemson did even more.  You can hear the edifice creaking despite everything ESPN can do to prop it up.  Credit Dabo and Venables.  This game should give Texas fans even more hope that getting close on talent combined with superior coaching can produce top notch results.

Edited January 8, 2019 by sushihorn

[sushihorn 3,233]

Keep in mind that Clemson dominated tonight with borderline top 10 talent vs the clear #1 over the last several years.  Clemson's last 4 classes were ranked #9, #11, #16 and #6.  Alabama's were ranked #1, #1, #1 and #5.  Saban had the superior athletes.  Dabo was close enough that the gap could be overcome with development, technique, scheme and play calling.

Swinney built a good team and since Venables joined him, Clemson has only finished outside the top 10 one time in 7 seasons.  Texas has not had the same staff continuity and entered this season with borderline top 20 talent.  But with back to back top 10 classes, Tom Herman is getting to the level where the talent gap can be overcome with coaching.  Hopefully we are close to the point where the Texas coaching staff can beat the bag men of the SEC.

[mulletpelini 5,210]

valid point, continuity is huge.  Saban hasn't had much if any, which is a huge credit to him and what they've accomplished.

[Catdaddyhorn 3,444]

In  fairness, Clemson's recruiting classes of #9, #11, #16 and #6 are 1) made up of topflight Dlinemen being the bulwarks of those classes (that and top flight WRs) which can make up for a lack of talent in other areas, and 2) it's beginning to look like Clemson's staff is unmatched in terms of player evaluations and development. They simply don't miss. They are the embodiment of Rick Neuheisel's recruiting credo that says it's not the guys you miss out on who hurt you, but the guys you get who can't play who do. Clemson doesn't have many of the latter. 

Edited January 8, 2019 by Catdaddyhorn

[PencilPusher 454]

5 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

They are the embodiment of Rick Neuheisel's recruiting credo that says it's not the guys you miss out on who hurt you, but the guys you get who can't play who do. Clemson doesn't have many of the latter. 

Herman said this exact thing at AFCA on Sunday. And he's right......not only does this apply to football, but to any sport, or organization, etc. Clemson has been especially good at this. Hopefully Herman & Co. could get to this level. This year showed the promise of that, but lets see how 2019 unfolds. 

[VABuckeye 2,472]

6 hours ago, sushihorn said:

Keep in mind that Clemson dominated tonight with borderline top 10 talent vs the clear #1 over the last several years.  Clemson's last 4 classes were ranked #9, #11, #16 and #6.  Alabama's were ranked #1, #1, #1 and #5.  Saban had the superior athletes.  Dabo was close enough that the gap could be overcome with development, technique, scheme and play calling.

Swinney built a good team and since Venables joined him, Clemson has only finished outside the top 10 one time in 7 seasons.  Texas has not had the same staff continuity and entered this season with borderline top 20 talent.  But with back to back top 10 classes, Tom Herman is getting to the level where the talent gap can be overcome with coaching.  Hopefully we are close to the point where the Texas coaching staff can beat the bag men of the SEC.

Clemson had two very smalll classes.  Their average ranking per recruit is top 4 over that time period.  You can't just look at an overall class ranking and come to the conclusion that you did without delving deeper into it.

[FloridaHorn 4,735]

19 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

Clemson had two very smalll classes.  Their average ranking per recruit is top 4 over that time period.  You can't just look at an overall class ranking and come to the conclusion that you did without delving deeper into it.

This is the correct answer. Look at the ratings avg of the players they did take. Last year they got the #1 overall player from 5 different states....including their QB who was the #1 player in the nation. Clemson recruits as well as anyone, and as mentioned before they do an outstanding job of evaluation.

[FartingMonk 3,606]

I think with both Fromm and Tua they gotten hit a bunch lately so when they do their pre snap reads they are more quick to just get rid of the ball.  When you bring certain blitz packages and then disguise the coverage that easily leads to mistakes.  

[VABuckeye 2,472]

Or the SECSECSEC just isn't what the media says it is.  The SEC ended up 6-6 in bowl games which is no better than every other P5 conference but the PAC12.  The best P5 conference bowl records were 6-5, 5-4, 4-3.  The PAC12 was 3-4.

The two best teams in the SEC got handled in their final games. They're just like any other conference but their rankings are elevated because they're all ranked so their losses don't hurt them  as much as losses in other conferences. 

[C-Man 27,083]

8 hours ago, sushihorn said:

Alabama looked like the bigger, stronger team tonight and they probably were.  They also looked like the faster team tonight and they might have been.  But most importantly, Bama certainly looked like the DUMBER team tonight and they definitely were that.  In a game that echoed the Sugar Bowl, an elite SEC team looked physically superior but got completely dominated.  Like Georgia's Jake Fromm, Tua Tagovailoa demonstrated arm strength and accuracy but a lack of reading ability which led to bad throws and turnovers. 

When his team got in a deep hole, he did not have the ability to lead them out of it - again echoing the earlier match up in Nawlins.  If we went back and watched their conference games, I'm sure we'd see Tua and Jake burning basic coverage schemes with simple, pre-snap reads and superior athletes catching and running with the ball.  That's certainly what I saw when reviewing Georgia vs Mizzou, Florida, Tennessee, Auburn, Kentucky and to an extent Bama.  When faced with comparable athletes running better coverage schemes, the vaunted pass efficiency numbers (Tagovailoa #1, Fromm #5) vaporized like spit in a blast furnace.  Both of Tua's picks were mis-reads of the coverage.  Like Fromm he mostly threw underneath the coverage or to open men in single coverage for easy reads.

Clemson has excellent DL so they were able to mostly contain Bama's running game with a 6 man box and minimal games.  Once they put the game on the QB's shoulders it was pretty much over.  In contrast Trevor Lawrence was truly impressive in his accuracy and reads of the defense.  He made some amazing throws on corner / deep out routes against zone and double coverage.  His ability to sustain drives even after major penalties prevented Bama from getting the short fields their offense needed.  Lawrence's passing ability was complemented by a nice ground game incorporating misdirection and a really, really good O Line.

In another parallel to the Sugar Bowl, poor special teams play helped to put Bama in a hole.  The missed XP them points when they had the lead.  The kick out of bounds gave Clemson good field position to start their 3rd TD drive which put them in the lead for good.  The pathetic fake FG when Clemson was obviously ready for it was a terrible decision and Saban should have had his offense on the field if he wanted to go for it in that situation.

I think Texas did a lot of damage to the invincible SEC myth and Clemson did even more.  You can hear the edifice creaking despite everything ESPN can do to prop it up.  Credit Dabo and Venables.  This game should give Texas fans even more hope that getting close on talent combined with superior coaching can produce top notch results.

I've been telling people for months that Clemson was gonna bring it.

Also, Clemson's recruiting rankings are a little bit of a misnomer in that they have very little attrition and therefore have smaller classes usually. Their star average is probably top 3 the past five years.

Edited January 8, 2019 by C-Man

[TheFlagship 432]

Speaking of Dumb

[sushihorn 3,233]

8 hours ago, mulletpelini said:

valid point, continuity is huge.  Saban hasn't had much if any, which is a huge credit to him and what they've accomplished.

Dabo is in his 12th season.  Venables his 7th season and the co-OCs are in their 4th season.  It seems like Venables gets mentioned for every tier 1 HC job that opens up but he hasn't left yet.  Other than the Friends of Mr. Jesus (/Borat) that's the kind of culture of loyalty you want.

[South Austin 52,170]

Solid take.  I don't think the parallels between last night's game and the Sugar Bowl are coincidental.  The SEC over-hype this year was especially strong.

[Trey3216 15,325]

11 minutes ago, TheFlagship said:

Speaking of Dumb

Yep, 50-50 balls as in 50% it may be incomplete and 50% only his receiver could catch it. 

[housious 468]

Jake Fromm most definitely did not display any accuracy.

[Slacks 6,792]

Pshhhh... Alabama just wasn't interested in beating Clemson again. They wanted a rematch with UGa.

[Surlybastard 65]

It don't matter. The media will look at like 10 sec teams having top 25 recruiting classes and figure the sec is still the strongest conference just like always. Just like a few years ago when every one of their top teams lost(like every team that was ranked going into bowls) and the next year they still had 5 teams in the top 10. The only question is whether Bama will get the benefit of the doubt if they fail to win the sec.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Surlybastard

[Cajun 11,675]

10 minutes ago, housious said:

Jake Fromm most definitely did not display any accuracy.

Hard to when you have big ass pipe swingin' dude's wearing white and burnt orange breathing down your neck all night.

[Mez2 4,022]

alabama didnt want to be there

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2,725]

I thought the Clemson D line looked very fast compared to Bama. Those guys were hunting people down and not missing on the tackles.

[sushihorn 3,233]

7 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

In  fairness, Clemson's recruiting classes of #9, #11, #16 and #6 are 1) made up of topflight Dlinemen being the bulwarks of those classes (that and top flight WRs) which can make up for a lack of talent in other areas, and 2) it's beginning to look like Clemson's staff is unmatched in terms of player evaluations and development. They simply don't miss. They are the embodiment of Rick Neuheisel's recruiting credo that says it's not the guys you miss out on who hurt you, but the guys you get who can't play who do. Clemson doesn't have many of the latter. 

 

2 hours ago, VABuckeye said:

Clemson had two very smalll classes.  Their average ranking per recruit is top 4 over that time period.  You can't just look at an overall class ranking and come to the conclusion that you did without delving deeper into it.

 

1 hour ago, FloridaHorn said:

This is the correct answer. Look at the ratings avg of the players they did take. Last year they got the #1 overall player from 5 different states....including their QB who was the #1 player in the nation. Clemson recruits as well as anyone, and as mentioned before they do an outstanding job of evaluation.

All very true and good catch on the small classes.  I like what we've seen so far on the evaluation and development from from Tom Herman.  One small and one small-ish class have produced plenty of early contributors.  Well above average so far for Herman but Dabo has been absolutely top shelf for years.

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13,010]

12 minutes ago, Mez2 said:

alabama didnt want to be there

Snubbed from the NFL playoff.

[Jiggy-Z 3,432]

2 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

 

 

All very true and good catch on the small classes.  I like what we've seen so far on the evaluation and development from from Tom Herman.  One small and one small-ish class have produced plenty of early contributors.  Well above average so far for Herman but Dabo has been absolutely top shelf for years.

I remember USC having some small classes back in the Pete Carroll years and it seemed like every player was a 5 star.  Some of those classes were ridiculous.

[sushihorn 3,233]

18 minutes ago, Cajun said:

Hard to when you have big ass pipe swingin' dude's wearing white and burnt orange breathing down your neck all night.

Todd Orlando to Tom Herman re: Jake Fromm:

Quote

"What now? Let me tell you what now. I'ma call a coupla hard, pipe-hittin' Longhorns, who'll go to work on the homes here with a pair of pliers and a blow torch. You hear me talkin', hillbilly boy? I ain't through with you by a damn sight. I'ma get medieval on your ass."

 

[alincoln 2,364]

Back when I followed recruiting, Bama had a huge advantage over the non-SEC teams because they were pulling the equivalent of 5 Texas or Ohio State classes in a 4-year period.  

Saban just dumps guys out of the program who don't work out and replaces them with additional elite recruits.  

This Alabama run is predicated on the same principles as all other dynastic college football runs - securing the most talent by any means necessary thereby keeping the talent away from rivals and increasing your margin for error.  Bagmen and big classes.  Not too complicated.  

 

 

[ShowmeyourTDs 1,140]

1 hour ago, Snacks said:

Pshhhh... Alabama just wasn't interested in beating Clemson again. They wanted a rematch with UGa.

Now that’s a game that they might be able to squeak out a win.

[ImissWallyPryor 9,045]

2 hours ago, VABuckeye said:

Or the SECSECSEC just isn't what the media says it is.  The SEC ended up 6-6 in bowl games which is no better than every other P5 conference but the PAC12.  The best P5 conference bowl records were 6-5, 5-4, 4-3.  The PAC12 was 3-4.

The two best teams in the SEC got handled in their final games. They're just like any other conference but their rankings are elevated because they're all ranked so their losses don't hurt them  as much as losses in other conferences. 

And hence, we Texas fans get to hear aggy crow about their “strength of schedule.”

[ImissWallyPryor 9,045]

1 hour ago, TheFlagship said:

Speaking of Dumb

Maybe if he wasn’t watching the throws, he would have been more effective as a pass rusher. 

[TXSG8R 3,360]

Clemson had 4 senior OL IIRC, Lawrence stayed clean all night (zero sacks by Bama, probably the most amazing stat from last night).  Clemson was actually upper class-man heavy across the board.  That played a significant role in the game, Clemson was just better on both sides of the line and it showed.  Tua made bad reads under pressure.  I think Lawrence only made like two throws under any real duress, and I think both resulted in TDs.  

Both teams are ridiculously loaded, but it will be interesting to see how Clemson fares next year breaking in a new OL.  I dont think they lose any skill position guys though, and Lawrence will shred most of the ACC without breaking a sweat.  Totally expect both to be back in the playoff next year, both just have a talent overload that will carry them to at worst, a 1 loss season.  

Edit:  And the dumbest thing on the Bama team last night was their OC.  The play calling in the red zone was atrocious.  It played right into what Clemson wanted, and didnt take advantage of Bama's strengths.  Locksley laid an egg on his way out the door.  

Edited January 8, 2019 by TXSG8R

[texashorne 1,177]

2 hours ago, VABuckeye said:

Or the SECSECSEC just isn't what the media says it is.  The SEC ended up 6-6 in bowl games which is no better than every other P5 conference but the PAC12.  The best P5 conference bowl records were 6-5, 5-4, 4-3.  The PAC12 was 3-4.

The two best teams in the SEC got handled in their final games. They're just like any other conference but their rankings are elevated because they're all ranked so their losses don't hurt them  as much as losses in other conferences. 

The distinct SEC advantages

- 4 non conference games. 3 Guaranteed wins for the program and ascent in the rankings. Not to mention these 3 games are NOT a home and home, allowing for 8 home games per school.. a big deal in some of these small towns these SEC teams play in and a huge recruiting advantage for kids that want to play near home. 

- 7 teams, 2 divisions. The Championship game will more than likely not be a rematch. Its beats the format in our conference, where now the top team after the round robin has to play the conference #2. 

- Bowl selection. The SEC has a deal with all the bowl committees where they get to see the opponent first, and line up their eligible teams accordingly.

 

[El Squared 1,793]

9 hours ago, sushihorn said:

Keep in mind that Clemson dominated tonight with borderline top 10 talent vs the clear #1 over the last several years.  Clemson's last 4 classes were ranked #9, #11, #16 and #6.  Alabama's were ranked #1, #1, #1 and #5.  Saban had the superior athletes.  Dabo was close enough that the gap could be overcome with development, technique, scheme and play calling.

Swinney built a good team and since Venables joined him, Clemson has only finished outside the top 10 one time in 7 seasons.  Texas has not had the same staff continuity and entered this season with borderline top 20 talent.  But with back to back top 10 classes, Tom Herman is getting to the level where the talent gap can be overcome with coaching.  Hopefully we are close to the point where the Texas coaching staff can beat the bag men of the SEC.

Dabo and Clemson also defeated Saban's army of consultants and analysts.

Little Nicky may need to re-evaluate "The Process" and trim down the people paid to:

-tell him what he wants to hear

-dole out black pearls: misinformation

 

[ImissWallyPryor 9,045]

6 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Clemson had 4 senior OL IIRL, Lawrence stayed clean all night (zero sacks by Bama, probably the most amazing stat from last night).  Clemson was actually upper class-man heavy across the board.  That played a significant role in the game, Clemson was just better on both sides of the line and it showed.  Tua made bad reads under pressure.  I think Lawrence only made like two throws under any real duress, and I think both resulted in TDs.  

Both teams are ridiculously loaded, but it will be interesting to see how Clemson fares next year breaking in a new OL.  I dont think they lose any skill position guys though, and Lawrence will shred most of the ACC without breaking a sweat.  Totally expect both to be back in the playoff next year, both just have a talent overload that will carry them to at worst, a 1 loss season.  

Whoa there, podner.  There’s a new kid in town. 

Edited January 8, 2019 by ImissWallyPryor

[Machinator 32,098]

48 minutes ago, alincoln said:

This Alabama run is predicated on the same principles as all other dynastic college football runs - securing the most talent by any means necessary thereby keeping the talent away from rivals and increasing your margin for error.  Bagmen and big classes.  Not too complicated.  

 

As someone who still follows recruiting, I assure you this hasn't changed.

[Nivek 16,873]

Herman said this exact thing at AFCA on Sunday. And he's right......not only does this apply to football, but to any sport, or organization, etc. Clemson has been especially good at this. Hopefully Herman & Co. could get to this level. This year showed the promise of that, but lets see how 2019 unfolds. 

That is what brought Mack down and precipitated the revolving door at the coordinator positions. IMO

[Bigbend1812 12,896]

Lulz

[sushihorn 3,233]

2 hours ago, T’Boo Ted Marshall said:

I thought the Clemson D line looked very fast compared to Bama. Those guys were hunting people down and not missing on the tackles.

Not sure Clemson's DL were faster than Alabama's.  I think it was mostly that they knew EXACTLY where they were going from the snap.

[Zavala 1,384]

Having their biggest comeback against Citidel doesn't help these goobers.

Scheduling real OOC like Texas is going to help them, win or lose.

[runthebone 7,933]

I thought this was a thread about Vic Mackey's ladies.  Glad to see it's not.

[BadgerHorn 147]

1 hour ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

Whoa there, podner.  There’s a new kid in town. 

And that new kid is killing himself on the recruiting trail after being scared to death watching the game last night.

[sushihorn 3,233]

8 minutes ago, BadgerHorn said:

And that new kid is killing himself on the recruiting trail after being scared to death watching the game last night.

He's got to survive the surge to win with good kids that graduate...

[texaslong 678]

1 hour ago, texashorne said:

The distinct SEC advantages

- 4 non conference games. 3 Guaranteed wins for the program and ascent in the rankings. Not to mention these 3 games are NOT a home and home, allowing for 8 home games per school.. a big deal in some of these small towns these SEC teams play in and a huge recruiting advantage for kids that want to play near home. 

- 7 teams, 2 divisions. The Championship game will more than likely not be a rematch. Its beats the format in our conference, where now the top team after the round robin has to play the conference #2. 

- Bowl selection. The SEC has a deal with all the bowl committees where they get to see the opponent first, and line up their eligible teams accordingly.

 

I just don't understand why other conferences aren't pushing for uniformity with conference schedules more. The SEC doesn't even play 60% of the teams in their conference each year, and they complain the loudest about how hard their conference schedule is. 

Edited January 8, 2019 by texaslong

[BadgerHorn 147]

I think lack of availability due to the coach's mtg is a big contributor.  Not sure I'm buying the "it's cheaper to use in-house guys" line of thinking.

I'm guessing on-air talent has some kind of "special event compensation" in their contracts and that they're not working an extra Monday night, including whatever prep work they did, for fun.  Even if the MNF on-air guys are doing this pro bono, I doubt ESPN would have had to shell out money to the coaches.

ESPN: Hey corch X, you wanna be on our Coaches Film Room broadcast for the championship game?

Corch X: You going to pay me to come to this?

[ESPN looks to dozens of other corches salivating at the opportunity to be in front of every current and future recruit across the country for 3+ hours]

ESPN: Nah, we're good.

[VABuckeye 2,472]

And Butch Jones, the consultant who isn't allowed to coach, was on the sideline interacting with players last night.  Uh, isn't that called coaching?