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2019 Poker run gooder or die thread


AUS-97HORN

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I want him to make a move, but $130 doesn’t give him that option since there’s virtually no way you fold to his $30 shove. Checking here would leave too much value on table, so I think we’re definitely betting... how much?

We can’t assume he has an ace, and no two pairs make sense, so either Q high, JJ-77 as bluff catchers or various flush draws that he might try to bluff you into folding.

What would the bluff catchers pay? $50 of his $160 to win $300 seems reasonable. It also gives room for him to bluff shove.

I’d go $50-80.

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2 hours ago, bigup2dahorns said:

Good question and answer. Bet sizing is the area I need to improve the most on. It requires a little time and thought but you can arrive at a reasonable answer with some experience.

Yeah I'm not great at bet sizing.

I bet $20 on the flop thinking every straight draw and flush draw would call, but I had the A of diamonds so that made a flush draw less likely. And in my limited experience it seems to me like once a draw calls the flop they'll call a half-pot bet on the turn after they miss. Maybe I should have bet $30 on the flop and $60 on the turn.

The guy tanked a bit on the turn so I figured he most likely had an inside straight draw.

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We discussed this upthread, but half pot cbet is pretty default play on flop and rarely wrong. You can bump it up on a wet board because people chasing will/should pay more, and if you’re the one chasing it serves to increase their folds (Ie, realizing your fold equity). I’d have gone $25 or $30 into that $45ish pot on flop.

Turn is where most of the thinking is required, imo. 1/3rd pot at this point ($35-40 here) is fairly standard (though I would almost never bet less on turn than I did on flop as that just screams weakness), but really everything is on the table from checking to over-betting to even $100+. As Sooner noted, this is where you really need to understand their stack size. If you KNOW you want to get them all in regardless of the river to come, you can often just bet half their stack here and know they’ll be virtually pot committed for the other half on the river. Sometimes they’ll just go ahead and shove for their draw even though it’s mathematically incorrect to do so.

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8 hours ago, Lurch said:

I want him to make a move, but $130 doesn’t give him that option since there’s virtually no way you fold to his $30 shove. Checking here would leave too much value on table, so I think we’re definitely betting... how much?

We can’t assume he has an ace, and no two pairs make sense, so either Q high, JJ-77 as bluff catchers or various flush draws that he might try to bluff you into folding.

What would the bluff catchers pay? $50 of his $160 to win $300 seems reasonable. It also gives room for him to bluff shove.

I’d go $50-80.

Yeah, I'm betting $50 or $60 here so I get a call from a Q who just can't lay down second pair.  But I think most of the time he's on a busted flush draw and your bet size on the river doesn't matter. 

I don't like checking river with no read on villain after PFR then two streets of pretty strong bets.  I think it's significantly more likely that we can get another $50 out of him than that he'll bluff off $100-160 on a busted draw after that much aggression from us that suddenly slowed down.

You did well to get value out of him early and there probably wasn't any more there to get on the river.  And winning without showing your cards is always a good thing anyway.

Edited by TexArcher
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12 hours ago, Bookman said:

River was 4 clubs. Villain had about $160 left and the pot was about $200. I really didn't know what to do or what would call me.

I ended up betting $135 and he quickly folded. Should I have just gone all in? Should I have bet $50 hoping to get called by a Q or maybe a A? Should I have checked and hoped for a bluff?

with 1-2 its almost impossible to answer,   but since you felt you were the best, maybe a small bet ($30?) made to look like a weak Q blocker bet.   if he has anything hes calling, if he has 2 pair theres a much better chance of him raising, and if he has the missed flush draw, there is always the chance you can induce a bluff. 

of course, if he was rocking 7d-8d, hes shoving the river every time and you curse the poker gods when you snap call.

 

I have played 3 sessions at APP ($1-2, $300 max buyin), and I honestly think Ive had a bit of a card rack run.  Im not dominating the table, and Ive had to rebuy a few times but all 3 sessions of about 3 hours have finished with me up a decent BB/hr rate even after prepaying all the fees. 

Its pretty much been the bomb pots that I have absolutely dominated at. 

 

first day bought in with 300, had as much as $700 in front and as low as $250,  ended at $506,   having paid the $5 daily fee, and also paying $100 for 10 hours of play (plus 10 free hours), along with $20 in tips.   not much of a profit.

2nd day I bought in with 300, got as high as $600, got mega sucked out on putting me under $100, rebought another $200,  ran AK into a flopped set on an A high board, rebought for another $200. and then proceeded to win 4 or 5 major pots in the next hour including 2 bomb scoops.  cashed out at $950 about $30 in tips payed so a decent $215-220 profit. 

today, third day, started with $300, got up to $500, made 2 bad calls to be right at $200, rebought another $100, and went slightly up for a while until a huge bluff that took down a $200 pot, and catching the effective nuts on a bomb pot with a raise and an all in ahead of me on the flop.   cashed out for $835, about $20 in tips so a true double up. 

 

Ive been decently lucky on the bomb pots, either I have a hell of a hand on the flop, or Ive got nothing, so I havent had to make any crazy hero calls, and have been in turn hero called.

 

First major bomb pot was $10 each, 7 players and the boards came out Ten high unconnected  rainbows, i look down at JJ,  bet $50 into the pot, get 1 caller, and then a shorty shoves for $125.  I call, other guy folds.    I was up aginst 10-2, neither board caught a 2 and I scooped. 

2nd one I had K3 of spades, top board was all spades, A high,  2nd board was QJT with a red flush draw.  This was a $5 bomb pot so I bet out $20, got 3 callers, turn didnt change anything on the top board, but threw out the A clubs giving me nut/nut.  I bet $40, both called. complete brick on both boards, I bet $100, get 2 allins behind. first guy only has $125 total, last guy has $250.  Short stack has a K,  large stack had QT spades, so I got all the $250 side pot and got 3/4 of the main pot. 

and today in another $5 bomb pot the top is 9-9-3 with 2 diamonds, and the bottom is A-T-5 rainbow.  I look down a A9o, Im first to act and make it $10, get 1 caller, a raise to $40, and a reraise to $100.  and its my turn.  I decide if someone has 93 Im still possibly good on the bottom board, so I make it $250,  all fold but the $100 raiser who has about $275 total, shoves, I call, and flip over.  both boards roll out and he says Im good. 

Edited by AUS-97HORN
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I've been watching a lot of Live at the Bike cash games lately on YouTube, and it seems like they all three-bet very wide and they're almost always called. What's the theory of three-betting with marginal hands when you're going to get called the vast majority of time?

I saw a hand last night. Missed the preflop action, but it was A-10 on the button with two shit hands out of position. $200 pot. Flop was 4-J-J. Check check check. Turn was an A, button bets the pot, and everyone folds. What's the point of betting pot there? It seems to me like that's only getting called by better hands.

 

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To your questions, they would tell you that for both of those plays they’re protecting their weak hands and ensuring they get value from strong hands. Ie mixing up their play to avoid giving tells


This. The idea in 3b a marginal hand even in spots where you know you will be called is that you take the lead to the flop. Even more valuable if you’re in position. Even more valuable again if your opponents overfold flops.

On the AT hand, betting AT there lets him bet 55 or KQ there also and opp can’t say “ah he would check an ace so he must not have it so I’m gonna raise”.
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had a pretty crazy night last night.

Sat down at NLHE while waiting for a seat and dropped $100. I don't think I ever made it past the flop. Finally move over and get absolutely destroyed for a couple of hours. Every time I got a flush the board would pair, every time I had a strait a flush would come, every low counterfeited, every time I'd fold a set the boat would come and I would have won.  I brought $1300 and was paid $300 from somebody that owed me money, and after multiple rebuys and add ons I had no money in my pocket and $400 in chips in front of me. 

A couple of big action players sat down and I knew I just had to be patient. One of the guys will simply not fold preflop if he thinks he's got a good hand. I then got AcXc and went all in on a 2 club flop and took it down and was up to $605.  The next hand I get Ac2c4sKsQs, which I feel is about as good a starting hand as you could have. I raise to $50 preflop, big action guy reraised to $195, one older good player who just sat down calls, I re-pot and end up all in with both of them.

Flop is 7c8c9s. Not great but not bad. Turn 6c. Bingo, I'm sitting with nut flush and nut low, river 7s, uh oh boats got there. I lay down my hand and announce nut flush, nut low. Big action guy looks at his hand, proclaims "don't think I can beat you on either I get a brief glimpse and see KKJ75, which is a terrible starting hand, and it comes down to the good player. He's beaten me out of  many pots over the years and I'm waiting for him to lay down a boat and nut low. He keeps looking at the board and then his hand. It was probably 5 seconds but it seemed like minutes and he finally lays down his hand, showing AA35K and boom, I scoop a $1900 pot.

I win a few and lose a few hands after that, end up cashing at $2043 for a $443 profit on the night after 5 hours of work. 

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33 minutes ago, WBT said:

What game are you playing where you are dealt 5 cards?  Is this the double-boarded Omaha H/L you posted about before?  Seems like it's not since you only described one board this time.

Big O is 5-card Omaha H/L, usually played to pot limit.

Bomb pots are specific hands where 2 boards are dealt. Bomb pots can be in any game, not just Big O. Bob earlier was describing a Big O bomb pot, but here just regular Big O hands.

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1 hour ago, blacklab said:

yeah, there's a red bomb pot button and it rotates counter clockwise. When it meets up with the regular button that person has the button for the bomb pot, and then the next hand they are the button for the regular hand.

Gotcha.  I was thinking that it would suck for you to be on the button every bomb pot.

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bomb pot is where there's a pre flop ante, then 2 boards are flopped, round of betting, then a turn card on each board, round of betting, then a river card on both boards.

For NLHE best hand on top board gets half the pot, best hand on bottom board gets half the pot.

In Big O the ultimate high on either board and ultimate low on either board chop the pot. Creates some crazy pots due to people having nuts on a board and betting it up.

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Love bomb pots.  Couple of weeks ago I had JTo and hit a straight and two pair, scooped about $500 pot and only about 1/3 of it was mine.  Would've been more if the guy with top pair A had more $ in front of him.

Another memorable one at Full House (RIP): 8 handed for $40 in the pot pre.  I flopped a boat with a 95 on the bottom and the top was J 6 2 rainbow.  I bet $20, guy to my left shoves, everyone else folds, I call.  He's on a set of jacks on top and we make $15 each with our monsters.  Sigh.

 

Edited by TexArcher
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6 hours ago, blacklab said:

bomb pot is where there's a pre flop ante, then 2 boards are flopped, round of betting, then a turn card on each board, round of betting, then a river card on both boards.

For NLHE best hand on top board gets half the pot, best hand on bottom board gets half the pot.

In Big O the ultimate high on either board and ultimate low on either board chop the pot. Creates some crazy pots due to people having nuts on a board and betting it up.

I like this two-board variation.

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11 hours ago, Bookman said:

I like this two-board variation.

I cant speak for Big O , but my post on the last page was talking about me doing very well on NLHE bomb pots at the same place Bob plays Big O. and yes, Ive been pretty lucky at the bomb pots so far, either I flop nada, and its not worth even floating 1 call on the flop, or Ive hit some serious shit and/or massive draws on both boards with backdoor overs most of the time.

 

and its really weird how many times these 1/2 NLHE guys wont fold to a $100 bet, no matter how iffy their hand on ONE board is, let alone 2.   Ive had to split a few bomb pots, but for the most part, if I have played to the river and shown down with multiple guys ive either scoped or 3/4rd, or split with 1 person. 

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On 5/30/2019 at 9:23 AM, TXSooner518 said:

Big O is 5-card Omaha H/L, usually played to pot limit.

Interesting, I've never seen 5-card Omaha H/L.  I have enough trouble being disciplined about not playing too many hands in regular Omaha H/L.

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18 hours ago, TXSooner518 said:

It is entertaining for sure, and makes for some big crazy pots. And yep, button is a big advantage.

yeah, they do them very rarely where I play. they wanted to do one and I was UTG. i told them to go ahead without me because i didn't want to be in a disadvantage from position. nobody else seems to care about that there.

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6 hours ago, WBT said:

Interesting, I've never seen 5-card Omaha H/L.  I have enough trouble being disciplined about not playing too many hands in regular Omaha H/L.

Yeah, people play too many hands in Omaha 8 as it is, and they play waaayyy too many in Big O. Lots of family pots, even when I played a $600 Big O tourney at Venetian, amazing the crap people showed down.

Sick game, one of the worst feelings I've had at a cash table was in a Big O game. 1/2 with 5 to bring in. I have A235Q with 2 suits (huge hand obv) and get it in for $500 each on a flop of 755 with 2 of my nut suit. So I have top trips, uncounterfeitable low draw, nut flush draw. We don't show and board runs out 7-7. So board is 77755. My trips are completely counterfeited, no low, no flush. My hand is 777AQ. I lose to my opp if he has a 7 or any pocket pair. I table my hand in a mix of shock and fury and he stares and shakes his head.  He had A345J, so he had the same trips, and a worse low draw, but now my 777AQ scoops his 777AJ lol.

3 hours ago, po elvis said:

yeah, they do them very rarely where I play. they wanted to do one and I was UTG. i told them to go ahead without me because i didn't want to be in a disadvantage from position. nobody else seems to care about that there.

Yeah, no. That's why most places have a "bomb pot" button and a set rotation/time for them. 

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only my 4th session, so I still cant tell if its me, the cards, or just terribad players, but started today with $300, never rebought, got down as low as $210, slowly built it back up and as usual, bomb pots were where I made/ lost the most. 

had a bomb pot of me holding ATo  on a 8-8-A top board, and T--6-9 bottom board. I was CO, everyone checks, I bet $15, button calls all else fold, with the last guy accidentally flipping over 7-7  on his fold.  turn does nothing for the top board, but throws a A down on bottom board.  Top 2 there. I am worried about the other guy having 8x, so I just bet $30, he raises to $125 with only $25 behind. I  think and Im guessing hes got the 8, but trying to push me out with the trips and inside straight which only has 2 outs left, I call, river is a brick up top and throws a 7 on the bottom. He puts the last $25 in I call, and he flips over 8-5 for the 2 outer scoop on the river.  of course I miss my chance to return the favor on the single out A hitting top instead of bottom.  ouch.  -$180 that hand. 

But I do end up getting half of that back a few hands later when a bonko player who raises large with any suited hand (and I mean any, 8-4, 6-2, etc),  decides as the BB to play a hand. Hes been floating between $80-200 because he keeps hitting the boards hard with 2 pair, trips, straight etc.  UTG makes it $18, there are 2 callers before I act on the button and look down at 6-6.  I decide that the only player who is dangerous is UTG, so I make it $80 to play.  Bonko snap shoves as BB to $92 total.  which causes  UTG and rest of table to fold. I call.  I dont bother looking at the board waiting to see what the fuck hes got, when the 5 cards roll out, he announces hes got J2u????????.... Jack high, and I take it with the 6-6  $+140 that hand, and bonko leaves. 

Had another tough hand where I have Ac5s, in CO , sitting with a little over $700 in front. button has been agro, and just caught an 8 outer a few hands earlier on the river to catch his 9-7 flush when he called a $300 additional all in raise when there was only $130 in the pot at the time. He makes it $12 to play, there are a few callers and I call.  on a 5c-9c-6s board , its checked around, and he bets $15, everyone folds but me, Im thinking hes on a flush draw, and Ive got the Ac blocker, so I call.  Turn is a As giving me top & bottom. I check, he bets $25, I raise to $75.  he snap calls.   River is Qc.  I really think about this, I could bluff with the A high  flush blocker, but I decide Im calling any reasonable bet.   I check and almost without hesitation he SHOVES, and hes got me covered, its an effective $600 bet into a board where he doesnt have the nuts,  i tank for a while.  I ask the floor to confirm I can show a card and not fold, and I can, so I show the Ac.  and try to get him talking, he could be doing this with just about anything, but I just cant imagine him doing it without him having something that beats 2 pair.   finally get clock called on me... and I fold.  Just no idea if that was my going Sizzler hand, or if I avoided a massive loss.  he doesnt show, and doesnt talk about it.  -$105 that hand.  I win back a few more hands with pre flop $10 raises, getting 3-4 callers who all check and fold to a C-bet.

last major hand, is another bomb pot, 

top board is 9x-9c-3c,

bottom board is 6-h-5x-Th.   

Im button. and look down at 9h-7h (I dont look at my hand until after the boards are done on a bomb pot). MP bet out $15, and 2 callers, I call, SB (agro button from before)  calls, BB calls.  Turn throws the 7c on the top board (Nizzles bitches), and a fucking EIGHT on the bottom board (Nizzles x2 w/ flush redraw). 

Now agro bets out $50, one MP caller, and I just call with the double nuts.   (side note not really sure if I should raise here, even if its just to $100???)  I mean the flush hits the bottom board, 2 pair is clearly an option on the top board,  so if either of them had the flush or the Ac they are probably calling an extra $50. But maybe I scare out something that could pay me bigger on the river.   River throws a Tc on the top board, and 4x on the bottom. Agro Sb bets out $50 again, MP just flat calls, and I have to sit there and figure out how much I can raise and get paid,  Im only losing to 9-T or TT on top board, and Ive got the stone nuts on the bottom.  Agro easily has me covered, and the other guy has about $250 behind.   I decide that $200 total  is the right size and move those chips to the bet line.   Agro tanks, and folds, MP tanks, and tanks, and tanks,  He finally says, well I just hope you dont have 9-7, and puts out the extra $150.   he shows T-7 for a rivered straight on the bottom board and a 2 pair for the top.  I scoop. 

finish with this many. (stacks of 10).

47975900651_52e360bf04_z.jpg

 

$920 on 4 hours of play.  I paid $40 for the 4 hours, $40 in tips,  so net a solid  +$540 for the day. 

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nice. Let me guess, black dude in a white hat was the wild guy?

Got there around 8 and they opened a second big o table at 9. I sit down with $300.

 First hand at new table is a bomb pot and I have A267T.

top board goes 854 giving me the nut and nut, bottom board Q62. Somebody pots it and I call, scared of flush, board pair, or potential better low on the bottom. Turn is Q and T, nothing changes, guy bets $100, I go all in for $125 more and get 2 callers, River 5, 6, pairing up both boards and also putting potential flushes on both boards. My initial reaction is fuck, my strait is no good. Guy to my right announces strait to the 8, guy to my left announces A3 low, I lay down my hand and say same strait nut low, then look at the board and realize I have a 66622 boat and boom, scoop a $1000 pot on the first hand.

Few hands later have kqjt8, flop is QQ9, guy pots flop and turn, I call, he goes all in dark on river, it comes T, he had Q9 and I rivered him and take another nice pot.

Pretty much broke even for the next 3 hours, head home with a $943 profit.

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Very nice! Man that “ultimate low” rule in the Big O bomb pots is tricky and I bet lots of people have gotten totally facefucked on that and not understood how they lost when they had the “nut low.”

For those less familiar, as Bob said he had A2 and one board was 8-5-4. He had the nut low on that board. But say someone has A3 and the other board is Q-9-6-5-2.

Bob has 8-5-4-2–A, villain has 6-5-3-2-A. So villain scoops the low pot despite hero having “nut low.”

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Yep. That rule has completely confused multiple people. The other thing that fucks people is they just came from hold em where you play best hand on both boards. 

I bet I’ve heard this conversation 20 times in the last month

player:“why don’t I get money, I have nut flush on top”

dealer: “they have a boat on bottom”

player: “but there’s no boat on top”

dealer: “it’s ultimate high”

player: “what’s ultimate high?”

 

the other one one that gets people is when there is a flush on both boards. One board will have ak5 of one suit and the player will show 23 of that suit and the other board has j97 and the player has AT of that suit so the AK532 flush beats the AJT97 flush  

 

 

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38 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

Very nice! Man that “ultimate low” rule in the Big O bomb pots is tricky and I bet lots of people have gotten totally facefucked on that and not understood how they lost when they had the “nut low.”

For those less familiar, as Bob said he had A2 and one board was 8-5-4. He had the nut low on that board. But say someone has A3 and the other board is Q-9-6-5-2.

Bob has 8-5-4-2–A, villain has 6-5-3-2-A. So villain scoops the low pot despite hero having “nut low.”

So I am actually a bit confused, I thought ultimate low meant best possible low on both boards combined? or is the low the best possible low on 1 single board, no matter which one is lowest?

it must be the 2nd because the villain actually has the wheel on the combined boards. 

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Wow day one at the wsop big 50 was a SHIT SHOW! I waited in the fast track line for over 2 hours. We I finally got to my seat I proceeded to lose ever fucking hand i played. I got down to 25k at 600-1200 and felt good  getting my money in with KK on a 678 flop( I had raised preflop to 3300 and small and big both called) king turn! and 2 river. Small blind announced straight at turns over 59 off suit. Sigh. 

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6 hours ago, blacklab said:

nice. Let me guess, black dude in a white hat was the wild guy?

no it was a guy who had just walked in off the street who was going to pluckers and saw poker instead and bought in for the day.   He was talking earlier about how he had no idea APP was there or that he could play poker in austin.   white guy, bald.   when I left (which must have been just before you got there- i left at 8:10)  he still had about $650 in front of him. 

 

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23 minutes ago, Lurch said:

We all agree that stacks of 10 should be a bannable offense, right?

I absolutely cant do stacks of 20, I knock them over every fucking time.  and to complicate it at APP their tables arent made exactly square, you can see in my pic that the stacks next to the rail are tilted towards the rail.  when I make it stacks of 20, those fuckers fall over on their own. 

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So I am actually a bit confused, I thought ultimate low meant best possible low on both boards combined? or is the low the best possible low on 1 single board, no matter which one is lowest?
it must be the 2nd because the villain actually has the wheel on the combined boards. 


You don’t combine the boards. Having 10 community cards and 5 in your hand would be pure insanity. Whoever makes the lowest low on either board wins the low half.

Wow day one at the wsop big 50 was a SHIT SHOW! I waited in the fast track line for over 2 hours. We I finally got to my seat I proceeded to lose ever fucking hand i played. I got down to 25k at 600-1200 and felt good  getting my money in with KK on a 678 flop( I had raised preflop to 3300 and small and big both called) king turn! and 2 river. Small blind announced straight at turns over 59 off suit. Sigh. 


What time did you get in FasTrac line? I’m going to do it about 1 or 2 am tonight. If you rolled up within an hour of start time, yeahhh told you not to do that!

We all agree that stacks of 10 should be a bannable offense, right?


Dunno about bannable, but anyone with stacks of 10 gets the insta-fish label until shown otherwise.
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11 hours ago, TXSooner518 said:

Dunno about bannable, but anyone with stacks of 10 gets the insta-fish label until shown otherwise.

 

100% true.  I am fish.  just a card rack waiting to get taken.

 

although another wacky night, played for about 3 hours.  bought in for $300, I recognize 4-5 players at the table. First hand UTG, Ive got  JJ,  i limp,  one of the agro's makes it $15, there are 2 callers, and I repop to $75 and everyone clears out.   about 5-6 hands later, I've called a few raises and folded on missed flops, $321 total.   

I get 6-6 in late position, all limpers ahead of me, I limp as well, BB makes it 12, and there are 3-4 callers before me.   I almost always pop it in this position, but for some reason I just call.  all others  are out.

Flop comes Td-7d-6x,

BB without hesitation shoves about $270 into the pot (wow). first 2 guys fold.  Guy to my right tanks for a while and finally calls.  I push the remainder into the pot,  other guy grumbles and calls the $39 extra. board runs out without any diamonds and finishes with a Q.    BB happily shows QT for 2 pair, guy to my right shows 6-7 for 2 pair, and I take the whole thing.  Up almost $700 in the first 10 mins.   I run it up as high as $1200 before some hits take their toll. play for another 2 hours going up and down past $1000, finish with $870 in front. My big miss was I called a $175 bet on the turn in a $300 pot when I had 9dTd on a 9x-8d-2d-7x board to a guy who bets any pair. Missed all the outs and got beat by Q9.

So 3 hours of work, $20 in tips, $30 for the hourly rate, roughly $520 profit. 

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