2019 Poker run gooder or die thread

[Irieguy 1059]

For those of you that hate the overbet, is it because you are going to fold to a raise? Like bet $50k and then fold getting 2.4 to 1 against an amateur? 

[CBT 1285]

There was no option to fold to a raise. He was all in. Most people typically hate those plays because in a lot of scenarios no worse hands are calling and no better hands are folding. The exact opposite of what a bet needs to be doing. 

[Dropout 355]

Overbet is good for bluff and extracting value from stations when under representing your hand.

[Lurch 5931]

Played in a $150 satellite into a $590 main event. Tourney pays 21 tickets and $510 to player #22.

We get down to 22 players and the floor asks if anyone wants the $510... and two players do! They can’t agree so we keep playing! One of them goes all in three times the next three hands and wins all three. Other guy to my right didn’t even try for some reason. Another player finally busts on the third hand, which had left me with one single 1k chip at 4k/8k/8k.

So neither of the two guys got the cash they wanted.

I’ve never seen anything like it

[Irieguy 1059]

4 hours ago, CBT said:

There was no option to fold to a raise. He was all in. Most people typically hate those plays because in a lot of scenarios no worse hands are calling and no better hands are folding. The exact opposite of what a bet needs to be doing. 

That logic ignores the 3rd reason for betting - deny your opponent’s equity. That concept is more important in tournaments and isn’t as applicable here. But if you feel you opponent will call small bets with 8-10 outs but fold to big bets, then the overbet can be the right move. 

I don’t think that concept applied here. I think Keating would call any bet with any top pair and most 2nd pairs. If Keating bets small on turn and then a scare card comes on the river, Yong might get away from top pair worse kicker or second pair. I think Keating was value betting the whole way and knew Yong was a loose, rich, recreational player. One pair and a flush draw was actually near the top of Yong’s range. 

[TXSooner518 2438]

On 8/22/2019 at 8:23 AM, AUS-97HORN said:

very interesting article in Poker News that flies against normal perceived "correct close to bubble" procedure for tournaments

https://www.pokernews.com/strategy/dont-blow-your-tournament-bubble-35171.htm

Happy they put this out, because there are gonna be tons of mopes mis-applying it and doing things like folding AA pre with 20 bigs 20 spots off the money. I've mentioned this effect before (ICM handcuffs), and it is most pronounced in large field tourneys where the payouts are super flat after the bubble bursts. Like the Venetian DSE I cashed this summer, I folded 99 pre with like 15 bigs, because busting a 15 bigs stack 10 off the bubble is a disaster. I lock up $2k by outlasting 10 guys, then would have to outlast another 150 or so to get another $2k, so going from 15 to 30 bigs doesn't dramatically increase my $EV. I wouldn't be folding everything of course, and if I was shorter I would need to just go with it. Some people will read this and actually bubble MORE tourneys, because they will shut it down too early, and with too short of stacks.

On 8/22/2019 at 9:42 AM, po elvis said:

i can't imagine shoving $190k into $70k is a good play there.

 

17 hours ago, TexArcher said:

As with most things, it's read-dependent.

If hero knows villain would have raised flop rather than slowplaying a set or bottom two pair, and villain wouldn't have called the flop bet with A5 gutshot draw, then hero can pretty much bet turn with impunity.  And overbetting the pot on the turn can look like a steal and entice a call by a lower pair stuck on 5 outs, whereas a 1/2- or 3/4-pot bet looks like a value bet and is easier for some villains to get away from.

Poker boards often talk about EV as if it exists in a vacuum, but what matters is +/-EV against that guy on that night.  And it worked.  Great example of Sklansky's Fundamental Theorem: he got the other guy to make a mathematical mistake that he wouldn't have made if their cards had been face up.  The fact that the guy spiked his river doesn't change that.

Yeah, anything can be a good play in the right spot against the right opponent. I know nothing about how Rob plays so can't comment on the specifics. My best guess is that Alex thought Rob would put him on Axcc with a bet like that, since he turned a ton of equity, and then Rob should call with any pairs. Did Alex have the Ac? If so, even more likely that's the thought. 

Note on the above though, Rob could have called flop with 65 OESD and now Alex would be dead.

16 hours ago, Irieguy said:

For those of you that hate the overbet, is it because you are going to fold to a raise? Like bet $50k and then fold getting 2.4 to 1 against an amateur? 

 

15 hours ago, CBT said:

There was no option to fold to a raise. He was all in. Most people typically hate those plays because in a lot of scenarios no worse hands are calling and no better hands are folding. The exact opposite of what a bet needs to be doing. 

 

14 hours ago, Dropout said:

Overbet is good for bluff and extracting value from stations when under representing your hand.

So the issue in general (not commenting on the specific hand b/c I know nothing about Rob or the table dynamics etc.) with overbetting like that is you generally have to be super-polarized, meaning nuts or air (or semibluff air). Usually (but not here obv) doing this with something like top-top does what CBT mentions, just folds out all the stuff you beat, and gets called by the stuff that beats you. So doing it with something like 65, sets other than top set (better to do it with 444 than QQQ b/c opp is more likely to have a Q and hero call when we have 444 than QQQ), and nut flush draw might work. That lets you get biggest value from your monsters, maximizes fold equity with your air draws, and of course if you ship Axcc, and they find the call, we have outs.

You need to know your opponent though to know if you are maximizing value. If you are against someone who loves to fold, sprinkle in more bluffs and take out some value hands. If you are against a caller, the opposite.

11 hours ago, Irieguy said:

That logic ignores the 3rd reason for betting - deny your opponent’s equity. That concept is more important in tournaments and isn’t as applicable here. But if you feel you opponent will call small bets with 8-10 outs but fold to big bets, then the overbet can be the right move. 

I don’t think that concept applied here. I think Keating would call any bet with any top pair and most 2nd pairs. If Keating bets small on turn and then a scare card comes on the river, Yong might get away from top pair worse kicker or second pair. I think Keating was value betting the whole way and knew Yong was a loose, rich, recreational player. One pair and a flush draw was actually near the top of Yong’s range. 

Denial of equity is important, but the best outcome is either: they fold to a bet they had odds to call, or call a bet that they had odds to fold to. Bombing it to blow someone off the pot can cost us money. Say I have top top and you have a flush draw.  Pot is $200 and we have $400 behind. If I jam and you fold, I end the hand with $600. Instead, say I bet $75 and you call. I'm going to check-fold if the flush hits and bet $125 (and you fold) if it misses. So 20% of the time, I have $325 and 80% of the time I have $675, meaning I average ending the hand with $605, so I make more money by betting 75.  Same assumptions, betting $100 results in 20% of the time having $300 and 80% of the time having $700, average stack $620. You can see that betting more makes me more money because you are calling without the needed express odds or implied odds.

Similar effect even when we  aren't deep enough behind to just c/f rivers. Pot $200, we have $250 back. I jam $250, you fold flush draw, I end hand with $450. Instead, I bet 100, you call. Now, pot is 400 and we have 150 back. So lets just say I jam all rivers. 20% of time I have 0, 80% I have 550, end hand with $440. That's worse than jamming and you folding.  If I bet 150 turn and you call, then I jam 100 on all rivers, 20% of time I have 0, 80% I have $600, so average end hand with $480, better than jamming and you folding.

Things of course get complicated if you are capable of bluffing the flush card if it comes, because then I can't happily check-fold when deep. It adjusts the other way if you are likely to hero call my river bet with weak/moderate hands, like say you had Ac9c and river a 9 on something like K5739. That REALLY increases the value of betting small instead of blowing you off the hand when I have AK.

13 hours ago, Lurch said:

Played in a $150 satellite into a $590 main event. Tourney pays 21 tickets and $510 to player #22.

We get down to 22 players and the floor asks if anyone wants the $510... and two players do! They can’t agree so we keep playing! One of them goes all in three times the next three hands and wins all three. Other guy to my right didn’t even try for some reason. Another player finally busts on the third hand, which had left me with one single 1k chip at 4k/8k/8k.

So neither of the two guys got the cash they wanted.

I’ve never seen anything like it

LOL JFC, poker is alive. Why play a $150 satty to the $590 tourney if you'd rather have $510 than a seat??? 

[Lurch 5931]

It’s possible that, like me, they won their satellite seat. Still fucking weird... and hilarious

[TXSooner518 2438]

Just now, Lurch said:

It’s possible that, like me, they won their satellite seat. Still fucking weird... and hilarious

Can you sell the seats? If so, I'm assuming you can sell for more than 510. If no, registering the satty when the only prize is something worthless to you is uhhhh yeah.

[Lurch 5931]

I think so. Guy to my right just kept saying he’d rather have cash in his pocket.

[Lurch 5931]

Day 1B of $590 Main Event. 25k chips, 40 min levels.

Finishing level 2 w 26k. Going to 100/200/200

[CBT 1285]

gogogogo

[TexArcher 38076]

13 minutes ago, Lurch said:

Day 1B of $590 Main Event. 25k chips, 40 min levels.

Finishing level 2 w 26k. Going to 100/200/200

I recommend you flop boats and stack chips.

[Lurch 5931]

27.7k to 200/300/300

[Lurch 5931]

I recommend you flop boats and stack chips.

Subscribed

[CBT 1285]

fuck that. flop shit, get it in bad, and get there. and stack chips. 

[Lurch 5931]

Just saw a wild 4 way hand. Flop Q44 checks through. 5. BTN bets 1/4 pot, all call. 7. SB leads out half pot, folds to BTN who just calls w QQ. SB had 44.

Now everyone is telling BTN how great he is while giving everyone else a side smirk

[CBT 1285]

he had a READ

[Lurch 5931]

No progress. 26k at end of lvl 6. Coming back after break to 400/800/800

[TXSooner518 2438]

No progress. 26k at end of lvl 6. Coming back after break to 400/800/800

Plenty of chips. And JFC the lifetilt getting flatted by QQ there.

[Lurch 5931]

Bled down to 10k at 6/12/1200 and jam 88, lose to AQ.

 

Back to a $150 satellite to give it one more shot for tomorrow. Bought for $100, so I’ll consider that a win

 

[AUS-97HORN 11824]

I was supposed to meet a friend around 6:30/7 tonight for a beers and thought I would get 1.5-2 hours of play in.  So I get to APP around 445, and they are just opening a new table up, 5 handed and the very first hand is me on the button in a bomb pot. i lose $60 in that pot where the CO refused to give up on an inside straight draw that he hit on the river, combined with catching a pair on the river that also beat me.   Great start to the session.  very next hand I get AQdd make it $20, get 2 callers, and bet another $30 on the flop when it checks around to me on an 8 high board. lose to J7 (no 7 on the board) calling the $30 bet, catching the J on the turn (I stopped betting). so Im down $110 right off the bat.... not a good start. 

I do win a few hands over the next hour getting close to even, and then lose a hand with AKcc where that same crazy asian lady  (ava) has been begging to lose all her chips,  and she kept shoving.  She was to my left, so I limp, she shoves for $52, gets a call from a tighter player, and I try to either isolate or build a side pot and make it $104 exactly.  other guy folds (showing AT), Ava shows Q4dd.  and there is a 4 on the flop no other clubs, no T either btw. and she triples up. 

table breaks up and I am stuck $200.  my buddy then texts and says he's bailing on the beers. so I keep playing.   weirdly enough, I wasnt destroyed for the temerity of continuing to play.   Although it took 2 full hours to get back to close to even.   I win about $100 on a bomb pot where i flop trips on 1 board, and absolutely nothing on the other board (I had J high).  got called by 2 guys on the turn and river bets, and it turns out both of them caught the other pair on the board i flopped trips on, and neither of them had a pair on the other board, (which was A-K-Q-9-5, so i scooped with trips and J high.   Won a pretty crucial hand a few hands later with pocket 8s where I raised a J-7-6 flop,  after BB bet out $10  called by MP and I raised to $35 as CO (trying to see where I was at). got called by the BB, other guy folds,  turn is a 5 giving me the open ender,  BB checks, I bet out $60 and he eventually folds showing KJ.  I am up to about $420 when the final big hand happens. 

The table has 3 crazy raisers to my left, causing me to not play too many speculative hands because it was pretty consistently $12-25 to see the flop, I have done the limp, raise move multiple times its worked a few times, and when it hasnt, Ive completely missed the 5 way flop and have to shut down. 

I look down at 2 queens and I limp. first crazy raiser makes it $20, gets 4 callers.  Theres already $100 in the pot, and the first raiser is known to just donk off all his chips with any suited hand, and I want the rest of the players out.   So I take the chance that crazy raiser doesnt have better than QQ... hes only got about $155 total so I am willing to risk that with QQ. so I shove for all $425.

as expected, crazy raiser gives the fuck it speech and calls,  and then a real surprise happens, an aggressive older Asian guy (Max), who I have played with a lot, and knows I am not fucking around in this position, still manages to make the call and hes got me covered.  everyone else folds.   crazy dude is begging for diamonds,  flop comes out J-T-9, all black cards, Kd on the turn followed by Ad on river.  I show the QQ and both muck.    I ask Max what the fuck he had since he called off $400 more than he needed to, and he claimed to have AKo

pot was about $1050, I stayed around for 1 more rotation and left with $1040.   $500 in buyins $20 in tips. so a true double up for the day.  

[TXSooner518 2438]

Firing the $200 at the Lodge today, hopefully can repeat my top 5 finish from last time. Will share any fun or interesting hands!

[Lurch 5931]

Firing second bullet on this $570 main. 110 players Thurs, 150 yesterday and they think we may get 300 today.

[TXSooner518 2438]

LFG!

[Lurch 5931]

Drew a great table. Just two young guys to avoid. The rest are loose older dudes splashing around and playing quite poorly in general. As a result, I’m super tight, hardly playing any hands at all.

100/200. Folds to me in MP. I open to 700 w AKo. Maniac (50ish German dude) who plays 90% calls. BB calls. 2200 pot.

A65 rainbow. I make it 1k on a dry board. Maniac calls. 4200 pot.

7c puts the second club on the board, but that can’t be a concern. I bet 2k, he makes it 5500. What? I call. 15,200 pot.

Kc. I check, he again bets 5500. I call and he shows 84cc. What the actual fuck.

[TXSooner518 2438]

This tourney so soft. I open A6s from CO to 250, both blinds defend. Flop A78 one of my suit. They check I 225, S.B. call, old lady in BB goes 1000, I call SB fold. Turn 5 of suit she 2500 I call. River Xx she ck I ck she JJ. Sweet play pre/flop/turn!

She later just crams QQ on an ace high board and gets snapped by AK.

She re-enters and now opens JJ to 2100 at 100/200, BB defend. KQ5 ck ck. Turn T ck ck. River 3 ck ck. She shows JJ he says oh I knew it just hard to put you on jacks when I have one in my hand and folds. So he called 10.5x pre with a jack that isn’t JJ, AJ, KJ or QJ.

I’ve been card dead and playing pretty mediocre. 17.5k from 20k.

[TXSooner518 2438]

Two limps for 200, guy from SB goes 2125, UTG limper crams 9500, folds to SB who calls. He has ATo and UTG AA. AA holds. Then ATo who literally just took a dump on the table starts berating UTG about how bad limp reraising AA is.

I mean I don’t really like it either but I’ll take it all day errday over 10xing over 2 limpers with ATo then calling off a 47BB rip. JFC.

[TXSooner518 2438]

Guy tilts after losing most of his stack, jams UTG for 3100 at 150/300/300 blind. Another guy calls the 3100. I have KQo in SB and fold. BB call. Flop Q hi. BB lead 3k, other guy folds 98o face up and BB wins with QJo.

Then guy just opens 3500 still at 150/300/300. I play bad and jam AKo knowing he has a pair always. He calls 10.3 total and says you’re ahead but he has 88 and holds. 6200 now.

[Lurch 5931]

Catch 2 pair on river w 63 (in BB) and other guy caught straight w 52. Ggwp

Firing bullet #3

[TXSooner518 2438]

Jam 3800 from CO with 33 at 200/400/400. BTN call he has A2hh. Such a bad call. 3h in window which is interesting but flop is QQ3 and we hold. Nice to get rewarded!

[TXSooner518 2438]

Open KJ to 1200 UTG, loose caller, and guy who normally plays pretty big cash (bought in $4k in uncapped 1/3 last night) calls BB. Flop T98. Ck I ck loose bets 1700, BB call, I jam 10.4k, loose tank calls, BB tank jams, loose tank folds A9, BB has T8. Q ball on turn. Board pairs river but it’s a 9. Full triple to 35k. Leggggggo.

[TXSooner518 2438]

Two limps, I complete A3hh from SB. I ck call down against the same lady that went berserk on ace high flops twice before on A5Accs 6s 8d and get shown AJ. She can’t have JJ or QQ now? #cmonman. Still 24ish.

[TXSooner518 2438]

BB is away from table, MP limps, I complete SB with T3ss. 4k in pot. Flop T43hh. I ck he 1500, I jam 19.4k to rep a draw (last time I ck raise all in I had OESD) and he can never fold if he limped a monster but he folds.

[TXSooner518 2438]

Goes 2500-call in front of me, I jam TT from BB for 24k first guy calls off for 19k, second guy for 23k. First guy AA, second guy 55. Blank flop, I turn T of spades, but River is the 4th spade and AA has As. Massive cocktease there for huge pot. I win the side pot and have 7500 left.

Next hand two limps, I complete T9o from SB, BB check. Flop 998cc. I ck BB ck limper 2500, other limper call, I jam my 7k, BB call 7k, first guy folds other limper call. So 26k in the middle. Turn 5. BB ck other guy jam she tank folds. He has 76 for turned straight. He had 4 outs in the deck since T gives me boat. Now I have 10 outs to redraw but miss. Calling bottom end of OESD on paired flush draw board with 2 players putting in a lot of chips is pretty bad but hey!!!

Prettttay frustrated.

[Lurch 5931]

I let my 25k stack diminish to 13k before finally getting some cards.

Reraised pre w 99. One caller sees my AA9 flop but sadly doesn’t have an ace.

Open to 3k at 500/1k/1k w AKo UTG and a big stack bully calls. A62 rainbow. I bet 4k, he makes it 11k, I jam 19k more. He calls w ATo and can’t catch up.

Was up over 50k but raised pre and cbet w QQ on a AJJ flop but had to fold to a call and check raise.

43.5k

[Lurch 5931]

I open KK in HJ to 3k and all four behind call. 16k pot

K95. Nice.

I bet 7k and get two callers. 37k pot

7 puts out two spades. I bet 20k. SB tank calls his last 11k. BB tank folds.

I boat up on 7 river but didn’t need it vs KQ. BB says he had a big draw.

80k stack

[Lurch 5931]

Open CO to 3k w QhQd. BTN and BB call. 10.5k pot

Jd 7c 6c. Not loving the draws so I bet 8k. BTN calls, BB folds. 26.5k pot. Hmm.

8d. Less than ideal. Dude has to be drawing so I decide I’m going to make him pay. I bet 25k and he calls w 18k more behind. 76.5k pot.

10c. Mother fuck. I know I have to bet, but can’t do it. I check and he snap shoves. I call.

Jh9s and I’m destroyed.

I get my last 11k in 3 ways pre w QJss. On J high flop one guy bets big to clear out the other. He flips JT which I’m killing, until he hits runner runner straight.

I’m off to kick puppies.

[TXSooner518 2438]

Gawwwwdamn

[Lurch 5931]

Playing in a bounty tourney. Second level and I have the biggest stack by 25%.

Guy gets crippled and shoves his last 1700 UTG. I shove over him and clear out the field to win a $100 bounty

I have AT, he has A8

679

T

T

That’s about right

[Lurch 5931]

Two limpers to my BTN w ATs. I make it 1k and just one limper calls. 2500 pot

A53 rainbow. He checks, I bet 1500. He slams his remaining 7500 in (still steaming from his last hand) so I call. He has AQ. Oops.

Turn T and I hold to get my first black chip.

[AUS-97HORN 11824]

played about 2.5 hours today, very first hand I get 78dd as CO, EP bets out $12, 3 callers and I call as well.  flop is 5d-6d-Kx.  EP bets out $15, gets 2 callers, I raise it to $60, EP folds, MP calls, LP shoves for $73. I call, MP calls.   turn is a Qx. it checks around, and with me not having shit and a guy all in, I check as well.  complete brick on the river.  MP bets out $100, I fold, LP shows AKdd.  MP shows KQ. and takes it down.  

down  $85 right off.  reload $100 Lose another $50 when I had AK against  the same guy who was in MP above. Calling him Complainer.   I say that because all he did was whine about being down for months "because of the river cards", like hes the only one. Very quickly he got up to $900 really crushing folks on the river who had him dominated.   But he also a guy who will always bet when checked to.... which probably is why hes losing money all the time (which we love).  Finally get to play with him when he is BB and I am UTG  +2.  I have AQo, make it $12, only get 2 callers, the button and complainer.  flop is A-K-3 rainbow.  BB checks, as do I (setting up for turn), button bets out $15, and BB immediately raises to $45.  I call, button folds.  turn is a T putting a flush draw out there. And obv. QJ gets there.   He bets out $75, i started with around $250/260, so ive only got another $125/130 left if I call.  I shove.  he makes a speech about really wanting to call before folding and showing JT. 

about 1 rotation later, I get 2 red AA  in BB. start with about $400. Several limpers. Complainer is the button and makes it $6.   I make it $26 and only complainer calls.  Flop is As-Ks-8h.  I check and he bets out $40.  I decide to just call, hes going to keep betting. 

Turn is a Qh.   I DONT act but he assumed I checked. I havent said or done shit.  but hes nice enough to let me know hes betting $50.  so I just let it happen.  I decide now is the time to pounce, and I make it $175 to go.   I get a speech, and he finally calls.  River is a 6h.  which puts a backdoor flush out there. But with the $175 called, theres a chance hes actually got 2 pair here, he's way too aggressive for him to not raise with a straight on the turn, especially with the double flush draw.    So I make a mistake.   Rather than check and let him bet..... (I dont want it to go check-check), I shove for the rest.  Ive got about $160 or so.    he makes a grand speech.  shows QTss.  and folds.   

I guess I should have either made a $50 bet, or just checked with the hope that he just cant stop himself from betting there.    but then again, if he had 2 pair, or somehow it was set over set, he would have called for sure. 

I win another $60 off him on another pot, before he finally leaves (I had top 2 pair  he had top bottom) .  I play for another hour, lose a few here and there and cash out at $640. I bought in for $350, another $20 for tips, and converted another $30 in tip chips so a another player who was spewing chips all over the place could buy more time. (APP used to allow you to buy time with chips off the table- but that now changed to cash or tip chips only)  

So just about +$200 more for the session

Edited August 26, 2019 by AUS-97HORN

[Dropout 355]

This one fucking hurt. Busted like 70/3500 runners trying to turn 80 into 50k. Is there any way to get away from this? Had just moved tables so did not really have anything on villain. I was seat 2.

 

Game Hand #103201894 - Tournament #11976580 - Holdem(No Limit) - Level 48 (25000.00/50000.00)- 2019/08/26 03:52:49 UTC
Table '142' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Roland Gervais (762010.00)
Seat 2: OneGoodLife (1362129.00)
Seat 3: Insurgent (1964094.00)
Seat 4: groothedegen (1797511.00)
Seat 5: chiprekt (1988619.00)
Seat 6: SupreamMike (547556.00)
Seat 7: HU4rollzz (454390.00)
Seat 8: TheflawlessTiger (896512.00)
Seat 9: Th3Mavrick (871890.00)
Roland Gervais posts ante 6250.00
OneGoodLife posts ante 6250.00
Insurgent posts ante 6250.00
groothedegen posts ante 6250.00
chiprekt posts ante 6250.00
SupreamMike posts ante 6250.00
HU4rollzz posts ante 6250.00
TheflawlessTiger posts ante 6250.00
Th3Mavrick posts ante 6250.00
Th3Mavrick posts the small blind 25000.00
Roland Gervais posts the big blind 50000.00
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Main pot 56250.00
Dealt to OneGoodLife [9c 9d]
OneGoodLife raises 100000.00 to 100000.00
Insurgent calls 100000.00
groothedegen folds
chiprekt raises 300000.00 to 300000.00
SupreamMike folds
HU4rollzz folds
TheflawlessTiger folds
Th3Mavrick folds
Roland Gervais folds
OneGoodLife calls 200000.00
Insurgent calls 200000.00
*** FLOP *** [8s 8c 8h]
Main pot 1031250.00
OneGoodLife checks
Insurgent checks
chiprekt bets 465625.00
OneGoodLife raises 1055879.00 to 1055879.00 and is all-in
Insurgent folds
chiprekt calls 590254.00
*** TURN *** [8s 8c 8h] [2s]
Main pot 3143008.00
*** RIVER *** [8s 8c 8h 2s] [6s]
Main pot 3143008.00
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Main pot 3143008.00
OneGoodLife shows [9c 9d] (a full house, Eights full of Nines [8s 8h 8c 9d 9c])
chiprekt shows [Qd Qs] (a full house, Eights full of Queens [8s 8h 8c Qs Qd])
 

Edited August 26, 2019 by Dropout
what a stupid fucking flop

[Dropout 355]

I think I can possibly maybe fold this in the future. He was telling me to go away the whole time. Got sticky.

[Lurch 5931]

Yeah and even if he had two overs (25%) he was getting the right odds (5:1) to call and still have 10BBs if he lost

I might even put 99 down pre UTG. Definitely right on the edge for me

[Dropout 355]

Yea hating myself this morning. Have to let it go on the flop imo. Part of me feels like a nit saying that but putting it all in there with 99 I’m not really happy about. I would have played AA or KK the same way.

[Lurch 5931]

Yea hating myself this morning. Have to let it go on the flop imo. Part of me feels like a nit saying that but putting it all in there with 99 I’m not really happy about. I would have played AA or KK the same way.

You wouldn’t have 4bet jammed pre w AA or KK? I sure as fuck would have

[Dropout 355]

14 minutes ago, Lurch said:

 

You wouldn’t have 4bet jammed pre w AA or KK? I sure as fuck would have

 

Been experimenting lately. I like the flat there like 75/25 w KK and most of the time w AA with these stack sizes. Not really too big of a fan of 4betting and letting them get away. Not saying anyone would w QQ there or say AK but hands like 99 TT JJ QQ are never folding on a brick flop when I flat there. Some will when I jam pre. Then you factor in people bombing cb bluffs with 3bet hands like AK AQ KQ etc. I am ready to play a big pot here and let the cards fall where they may. If the stacks are a little smaller and there isn’t any fold equity I’ll 4bet shove.

[Dropout 355]

Say me and villain are in opposite positions in the hand above. He prob min raises QQ I’ll 3 bet the same w 99 as he did. When he shove 4bets I’m out w the quickness. Why I look back and feel iffy about how the hand actually played out.

[Lurch 5931]

You have 27 BBs and if they fold to a 4bet shove you win 10.5 BBs. That’s significant, especially when you factor the hands they call it with. I agree you probably get some flop cbets (3-5BBs) by just calling, but I’d guess that’s it a vast majority of the time. You also open yourself to scare cards on flop or even a turn where they both check behind on flop. I’d rather get it in all pre if the opportunity presents itself like this

[Lurch 5931]

Btw I don’t have a super strong feeling against your approach, I just don’t think it would be ideal for me. I’m open to it being OP and I just haven’t seen the math behind it.