Tesla

[AeroHorn 749]

Interesting last 2 days for Tesla. Stock dropped by >15%, with multiple bad news, from potential autopilot related crash to Model 3 delays, which was supposed to be 2.5k/week now but probably isn't.

Tesla is a fascinating study with a caricatured Silicon Valley philosophy (optimism in tech so release beta version, boldly go because failure is not a failure per se, etc.) combined with charismatic/conjuring leader (do-everything CEO is engineer who sleeps on the floor and answers your questions on twitter, cultish following, etc.) that has definitely achieved its top objective, which is shake up the energy/transportation industry, but lacks enough discipline to put its survival at risk.

The cars are great, battery driven world is still TBD (imo) due to materials needed, and I have real concerns with traffic where daily transportation is not mass transit based.

Continue talking about Tesla cars. Just wanted to reinstate Tesla thread here.

 

[Biff Tannen 45,660]

Yep.  Elon is a strange bird.  I love my Model 3 and think that Tesla's main purpose as a disruptive force in the energy world has been a good thing.  It will be fascinating to watch how it all plays out.  I don't think they'll ever totally go under, but I also think the big guns, in the automotive world at least, will catch up in a few years and probably take over.  Glad he poked them in the ass and got them moving though.

[mb111 18]

cool cars but i dont see the company making it.

[Don Keibals 113]

oh, that Tesla

[Blotto 23,484]

I like the cars and appreciate the role that Tesla played in moving the auto industry towards EVs, but TSLA is a financial trainwreck. They can't make money now selling cars @100k+ with the market all to themselves. It will get ugly when the big automakers and luxury brands start coming to market with offerings in the next 12-24 months.

[hayden_horn 11,362]

i read an interesting article on business insider (yes, i know, i'm also amazed) about how they've gone overboard on the automation, and it's killing them:

http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-robots-are-killing-it-2018-3

Quote

The robots are killing Tesla.

In a rare win for humans over robots in the battle for labor efficiency, Wall Street analysts have laid down a compelling argument that over-automation is to blame for problems at the billionaire Elon Musk's electric-car company.

That is to say, the very innovation and competitive advantage that Musk says he's bringing to the car industry — his nearly fully automated plant in Fremont, California — is the reason Tesla is unable to scale quickly.

According to the Bernstein analysts Max Warburton and Toni Sacconaghi, it's the robots that can't pump out Tesla's highly anticipated Model 3s fast enough. The whole process is too ambitious, risky, and complicated.

more at the link

[AeroHorn 749]

I don't know how much automation exists at Tesla. Elon has talked about designing and building the machine (factory) that builds machines (cars, toasters, etc.). But Elon is part science fiction story teller so his projections of factories that look like alien dreadnoughts have to be treated accordingly.

But what remains true is that every layer of automation adds to complexity, not removes it. The Wall-E future of us being lazy bums while being served by robots is unimaginably complex world. Anyone trying the second level automation has to first master first level and then spend orders of magnitude more time and resources to get there.

I think Tesla is just trying to (I hope) be like Toyota in building machines and not trying a half-baked 0.1version of Elon's dreadnought fantasy.

 

[Hoosier Longhorn 6]

Signs,signs everywhere signs...fucking up the scenery 

[Jhawk 1,075]

I'll be test driving an X and an S next week.  Should be fun.  Don't know if I want to plow 90k+ into a car though.  They laughed at me when I asked if I could skip the line for the newest car.

[Biff Tannen 45,660]

1 minute ago, Jhawk said:

I'll be test driving an X and an S next week.  Should be fun.  Don't know if I want to plow 90k+ into a car though.  They laughed at me when I asked if I could skip the line for the newest car.

Incidentally, if you buy a used S or X and then put in an order for a Model 3, you can skip the line.  Or at least get moved way up.  Then sell the used one when you get the 3.

[Jhawk 1,075]

Really.... We are actually looking for 1 car for the fiancee but I had the thought of giving her my car and me buying the x/s.  It might be interesting to get myself the X or S and get her the 3.  Does anyone have the X?  I drive a Jeep grand Cherokee right now and wonder how it compares.  I know it is actually bigger, but it looks like more of a crossover than an SUV.  What about towing?  Can it handle a 5000 pound boat/trailer?

[Biff Tannen 45,660]

3 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

Really.... We are actually looking for 1 car for the fiancee but I had the thought of giving her my car and me buying the x/s.  It might be interesting to get myself the X or S and get her the 3.  Does anyone have the X?  I drive a Jeep grand Cherokee right now and wonder how it compares.  I know it is actually bigger, but it looks like more of a crossover than an SUV.  What about towing?  Can it handle a 5000 pound boat/trailer?

Damn dude.  Big baller over here.

Towing:

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-x-pulls-250k-pounds-boring-co-tunnel/

[AeroHorn 749]

Yep, you can be the first in line for 3 when you buy S/X. Couple of weeks back, I took my kids to the Tesla showroom to see the 3, but they saw the S and X and their ranking is X, S, ......, 3. S and X look so futuristic and are so well designed.

Regarding towing, X with its mass and its torque beats the pants off any other vehicle. Have appropriate tires and others are toast.

 

[Biff Tannen 45,660]

1 minute ago, AeroHorn said:

Yep, you can be the first in line for 3 when you buy S/X. Couple of weeks back, I took my kids to the Tesla showroom to see the 3, but they saw the S and X and their ranking is X, S, ......, 3. S and X look so futuristic and are so well designed.

 

 

For more than twice the price (on average), the S and the X should be.  I love my 3, but I'm not pretending it's a $100k vehicle like the S and X are.  I really hope Tesla can figure out the ramp for the 3 production before people start freaking out.  

[Eldodroptop 35]

4 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

 I really hope Tesla can figure out the ramp for the 3 production before people start freaking out.  

I can’t understand why people aren’t freaking out now.

I get that Tesla has made unbelievable strides in bringing EVs to the public consciousness, and I too, would seriously entertain owning an EV in the right personal circumstance. But right now, today, owning stock in Tesla is a damn foolish thing to do.

[zman13 178]

Anyone have access to WSJ for this article? A summary says only 30% of the Model 3 early depositors are buying the Model 3 when it becomes available to them. That seems really low to me.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-clock-is-ticking-faster-at-tesla-1522233639

[AeroHorn 749]

That doesn't mean that the other 70% are cancelling their orders and taking their deposits. I think most of them are waiting for other options to be available, such as AWD, smaller battery, non-black interior, etc. For example, my preferred configuration is smaller battery with light color PUP, neither of which is available.

If other car companies were offering viable alternatives now (Audi, Jaguar, etc.), then many would have comparison shopped and bought other cars. Right now, the only competition is Bolt, which the reservation holders already know about.

 

[SMUlawUTgrad 81]

People just thought it would be cool to be on the list. Not surprised at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Biff Tannen 45,660]

15 minutes ago, AeroHorn said:

That doesn't mean that the other 70% are cancelling their orders and taking their deposits. I think most of them are waiting for other options to be available, such as AWD, smaller battery, non-black interior, etc. For example, my preferred configuration is smaller battery with light color PUP, neither of which is available.

If other car companies were offering viable alternatives now (Audi, Jaguar, etc.), then many would have comparison shopped and bought other cars. Right now, the only competition is Bolt, which the reservation holders already know about.

 

Yup

[tokamak 6,391]

Are the Chinese coming for this market? They've got some pretty big players in battery tech, don't they?

Seems like they could follow the same game plan as the Japanese and then the Koreans, only starting out with EVs.

[BNB 100]

https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/29/17176038/sf-motors-electric-suv-tesla-musk-eberhard

[kmac30 416]

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/29/tesla-recalls-123000-model-s-cars-over-potential-power-steering-failure-reports.html

Nice recall notice at 4pm on the eve of a 3 day weekend

[Biff Tannen 45,660]

Because no other car company has ever had to recall vehicles.  Seriously, why does Tesla, by all accounts a fledgling car company, get so much scrutiny over seemingly normal car company issues?

[HOOKEM4 5,036]

Clearly it is because Elon fucked their wife.

[Dr Fear 1,268]

Elon's father just had a baby with his step-daughter.  I guess all those videos on the interwebs are realistic after all.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/25/elon-musks-father-has-baby-step-daughter-has-known-since-four/

[PatrickMcHorn 376]

Elon's father just had a baby with his step-daughter.  I guess all those videos on the interwebs are realistic after all.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/25/elon-musks-father-has-baby-step-daughter-has-known-since-four/

That's some creepy ass shit.

[woohorn 1,131]

Because no other car company has ever had to recall vehicles.  Seriously, why does Tesla, by all accounts a fledgling car company, get so much scrutiny over seemingly normal car company issues?

I get that recalls happen and I think it is impressive that they don't have a ton more, but acting like a normal car company is sorta disappointing from them.

[zman13 178]

18 hours ago, AeroHorn said:

That doesn't mean that the other 70% are cancelling their orders and taking their deposits. I think most of them are waiting for other options to be available, such as AWD, smaller battery, non-black interior, etc. For example, my preferred configuration is smaller battery with light color PUP, neither of which is available.

If other car companies were offering viable alternatives now (Audi, Jaguar, etc.), then many would have comparison shopped and bought other cars. Right now, the only competition is Bolt, which the reservation holders already know about.

 

That makes more sense. The implication that 70% were cancelling their order seemed really high.

That 70% are willing to wait is interesting. For those of you willing to wait (besides AeroHorn), what drove your decision?

 

[IDIOTsavant 8,482]

I think at some point people will realize what I think Musk already knows - Tesla is an energy/battery company, not a car company. That’s why their patents are open. He just wants to drive EV demand, so he can sell batteries and Power Walls. Eventually the roof will be a fairly important product as prices come down. I think Musk is more worried about John Goodenough than the Big 3.

[Biff Tannen 45,660]

2 minutes ago, IDIOTsavant said:

I think at some point people will realize what I think Musk already knows - Tesla is an energy/battery company, not a car company. That’s why their patents are open. He just wants to drive EV demand, so he can sell batteries and Power Walls. Eventually the roof will be a fairly important product as prices come down. I think Musk is more worried about John Goodenough than the Big 3.

This is mostly correct I think.  Except I don't think he is driving demand to sell Powerwalls.  I think he truly believes in the overall mission, which isn't to make money as much as it is to change the world.  Not necessarily in a feel-good way either.  He's just a really driven dude.  Read his bio, it's pretty fascinating.

[Armybrat 40,814]

49 minutes ago, Dr Fear said:

Elon's father just had a baby with his step-daughter.  I guess all those videos on the interwebs are realistic after all.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/25/elon-musks-father-has-baby-step-daughter-has-known-since-four/

Quote

In a recent interview with Rolling Stone magazine, Elon Musk – who is thought to be worth about $20 billion – described his father as a “terrible human being” but stopped short of talking about specific examples.

“You have no idea about how bad,” he said. “Almost every crime you can possibly think of, he has done. Almost every evil thing you could possibly think of, he has done.”

Mr Musk senior, who is a millionaire and made his fortune through engineering, disputed that characterisation but has admitted shooting dead three intruders in his home in South Africa. He was charged with manslaughter but said he was acting in self-defence and was acquitted.

 

[IDIOTsavant 8,482]

I think the roof/power wall/car are all intertwined in his mind. Charging Tesla’s with energy from coal doesn’t fit his narrative. He doesn’t want to trade one fossil fuel for another, especially not one that’s worse for the environment. He’s selling an idea of  a zero carbon footprint where he owns each of the segments. I don’t think he can maintain that position in the auto world, but he’s very far ahead in the other spaces. The only way to challenge him is a battery made of materials that are relatively easier to acquire...like sodium vs lithium. And don’t let his “hippy” vision fool you. He started in tech trying to own the online financial transaction process. I think money matters very much to him. He wants to be Tony Stark, which requires both. He just makes people believe it’s fairly altruistic. He’s a showman.

[Biff Tannen 45,660]

22 minutes ago, IDIOTsavant said:

I think the roof/power wall/car are all intertwined in his mind. Charging Tesla’s with energy from coal doesn’t fit his narrative. He doesn’t want to trade one fossil fuel for another, especially not one that’s worse for the environment. He’s selling an idea of  a zero carbon footprint where he owns each of the segments. I don’t think he can maintain that position in the auto world, but he’s very far ahead in the other spaces. The only way to challenge him is a battery made of materials that are relatively easier to acquire...like sodium vs lithium. And don’t let his “hippy” vision fool you. He started in tech trying to own the online financial transaction process. I think money matters very much to him. He wants to be Tony Stark, which requires both. He just makes people believe it’s fairly altruistic. He’s a showman.

I'm ok with that.

[troph 24,781]

I'll be test driving an X and an S next week.  Should be fun.  Don't know if I want to plow 90k+ into a car though.  They laughed at me when I asked if I could skip the line for the newest car.

 

 

Look at used. I got my 2013 model S P85+ with every offered upgrade and only 22,000 miles - in impeccable condition - for under $60,000. 2 years remaining bumper to bumper warranty and 4 total years left on battery and motor. I love my car, best auto purchase I’ve ever made.

[hornfan785 555]

Some scary stuff with the newest AP update. There was that fatal Model X crash in California where the driver had AP engaged and the Model X crashed straight into a concrete barrier. Apparently there had been a crash there previously and they hadn't replaced the crash attenuator, so this caused the Model X to hit the concrete barrier with basically no dampening. Video below of the aftermath, pretty brutal (no bodies on camera or anything like that).

Edit: screwed up the spoiler and more of the post is in the spoiler tag that I wanted out of it. Can't figure out how to take it out of the spoiler, but oh well.

 

Then a couple other people on the teslamotors subreddit posted videos of their own Teslas veering towards concrete barriers between lanes or exits. Apparently the AP is trying to stay centered between the lines, and when the markings on the road are faded or just not there, the Tesla sees the space between the left line and the right lane of the exit as a new bigger lane.

 

Edited April 6, 2018 by hornfan785

[Biff Tannen 45,660]

Yep.  Tech isn't there yet.  Exactly why I didn't get autopilot on mine.  I drove an S with autopilot and tried it out and it's honestly pretty freaky.  I don't trust the car to drive itself.  I can upgrade the software later when it gets more advanced.

[Pato del Muerto 52,484]

Spent a few days at Disney. Kid was excited to see several Teslas on the roads. Maybe a half dozen S, one X, but no 3. Or maybe they are not inconspicuous so I didn’t notice them?  Figured Southern California would be a place where they would be around. 

Edited April 6, 2018 by Pato del Muerto

[zman13 178]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/03/business/tesla-model-3.html

Some interesting info buried in the article

Quote

While Tesla scrambled to work out the kinks in making the Model 3 in the first quarter, deliveries of the Model S and Model X declined by 23 percent from the previous quarter — to 21,800 — even as the company reported “the most productive quarter in Tesla history.”

 

[AeroHorn 749]

Comparing Q1 numbers with Q4 is not appropriate. Q4 is generally strong for auto sales, especially electric, with Q1 being a slow one. Tesla did better Q1 YoY. Actually, I expected quite a bit of cannibalization of S and X by 3. Either due to low availability of 3 or, more likely, there being a steady market of 100k/year for S/X, it didn't happen. I think Tesla, with its supercharger network and brand has shown that they are a formidable player in the 80-100k+ car market now.

What I find very disturbing is the Autopilot failure. Multiple people have tested it and have been able to reproduce the exact failure, which is Tesla cars happily plowing into a barrier when on Autopilot. The first video below is at the same exact location where the accident occurred (101S and 85 in Mountain View, bay area). If I were Elon, I would immediately disable Autopilot on all cars for anything greater than 35mph or something similarly severely limiting until I figure out what is going on. It is easy to understand the logic behind the way the software is acting; hence I don't this is a bug as much as a design flaw.

 

 

[TwiceHorn 31,429]

On 3/28/2018 at 11:19 AM, Biff Tannen said:

Yep.  Elon is a strange bird.  I love my Model 3 and think that Tesla's main purpose as a disruptive force in the energy world has been a good thing.  It will be fascinating to watch how it all plays out.  I don't think they'll ever totally go under, but I also think the big guns, in the automotive world at least, will catch up in a few years and probably take over.  Glad he poked them in the ass and got them moving though.

Actually, I think it was the consumer that he poked in the ass more than big automakers.  Electric cars have gone from a geeky tree-hugger oddity (Prius, Volt, etc.) to a status symbol.

[Viper 12,096]

Autopilot is looking more and more like a bad idea. Or at least an ok idea that the public overestimates the capabilities of.

There's 6 levels of autonomy in vehicles. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_car#Levels_of_driving_automation

Level 0 and 1 are where most cars are now. Tesla is at 2 trying to get to 3. Levels 4 and 5 are the goal and what companies like Google are working on. The problem is that levels 2 and 3 are probably the most dangerous levels because the car can do some driving by itself but can't handle an emergency and so needs a human to be ready to take over. This is problematic for a variety of reasons. Human attention naturally wonders when you have nothing to do or are doing something boring like just watching a car drive. They will also tend to overestimate the capabilities and think a level 2 is really closer to a level 4, like the guy who was killed because he let autopilot drive while he was watching Harry Potter on a portable dvd player.

[Biff Tannen 45,660]

55 minutes ago, Viper said:

Autopilot is looking more and more like a bad idea. Or at least an ok idea that the public overestimates the capabilities of.

 

Yep.  If you are brazen enough to not pay attention and let autopilot do all the driving at this point you deserve whatever Darwinism comes your way, IMO.

[Whitman 694]

1 hour ago, Viper said:

Autopilot is looking more and more like a bad idea. Or at least an ok idea that the public overestimates the capabilities of.

I think that we are doing autopilot wrong.  Too many external things going on.  Relate it back to flying.  Flying/corrections are fairly simple (I will admit all of my time is in a Cessna 172), it is the landing and taking off or handling some unplanned problem that may occur that requires a bit of activity.

I think what we should be doing is having autopilots designed for our interstates, not cities.  Take Rt 95 here on the east coast.  I can drive almost the whole east coast on it.  Basically you would dive up to whatever exit number you are getting on and plug in (voice/screenpad) what exit you want to get off.  It then takes over and ques you up to get/merge on to RT 95 and then drives you to the exit programmed.  It takes you off at the exit and then you either take over or it places you into a spot waiting for you to wake up or turn off facebook/NSAA.  Anytime during your trip you want to change your destination or get off and get a snack, you take over (just like current cruise control) and no big deal.  I think sometimes that we want to run before we are walking with this technology.  Do this first on Rt 95 or 81 or 64 out here (or whatever the equivalent is in other places).

Edited April 9, 2018 by Whitman

[Jhawk 1,075]

I test drove both the X and S (with the P100 package) today.

- Amazing cars

- amazing performance

- Not enough autopilot.

Personally, both I and my dad enjoyed the X more than the S.  Sure the speed is good but the X was a little more comfortable (old man said S was harder than his porsche to get into).  Performance is nice but how often do you need to get to 45mph before the end of the intersection?  I like the feasibility of the X, I currently drive a jeep GC, for my needs.  The other alarming thing was the "trip to denver" scenario.  I haven't driven from KC to denver in a long time, but it is typically a 8-9 hour depending on the stops.  With Tesla it is a 3 stop drive (I can make it in 2) and you are 20+ minutes at each stop.  Not very appealing.  But I don't drive to Denver.  I drive to Tulsa and NW Arkansas both of which are just under 300 miles away.  Ok.... that presents a new problem.  I have to either stop in Joplin (not on my way to the lake) and wait it out for 20 minutes, or get to Tulsa on my last few miles and wait it out for 20 minutes.  I'm not sure I have that in me.

I would buy a 3 if I could get it right now (as in not have to wait in line).  They are worth it and you could fully upgrade so when the autopilot has evolved in 3-5 years you are rocking and rolling (about 60k to fully load).  But that isn't an option right now because of the lines.  The biggest scare is that Tesla isn't around in 3-5 years.  At some point the company has to make money to make the cars viable.  I don't doubt it will happen but I don't want to be the one with a 100k car if it doesn't happen.  

Personally, I want the autopilot.  But I want it map driven and fully functional so I essentially have a chauffeur.  I am not going to pay $100k for a daily driver and still have to drive it when they are tantalizingly close to me not having to drive it.  I think Tesla has a critical 3 years ahead of it with getting production in order and making the autopilot work how a normal driver would.  If they accomplish that, I'd pay another 20k for the car.

Was a great experience though.

[Jhawk 1,075]

4 hours ago, Whitman said:

I think that we are doing autopilot wrong.  Too many external things going on.  Relate it back to flying.  Flying/corrections are fairly simple (I will admit all of my time is in a Cessna 172), it is the landing and taking off or handling some unplanned problem that may occur that requires a bit of activity.

I think what we should be doing is having autopilots designed for our interstates, not cities.  Take Rt 95 here on the east coast.  I can drive almost the whole east coast on it.  Basically you would dive up to whatever exit number you are getting on and plug in (voice/screenpad) what exit you want to get off.  It then takes over and ques you up to get/merge on to RT 95 and then drives you to the exit programmed.  It takes you off at the exit and then you either take over or it places you into a spot waiting for you to wake up or turn off facebook/NSAA.  Anytime during your trip you want to change your destination or get off and get a snack, you take over (just like current cruise control) and no big deal.  I think sometimes that we want to run before we are walking with this technology.  Do this first on Rt 95 or 81 or 64 out here (or whatever the equivalent is in other places).

I spoke with this guy about this and Tesla stresses that autopilot is not for city driving.  It will blow through stop lights/signs and intersections without looking.  Autopilot is a very advanced lane detection/parking automation/adaptive cruise control.  It isn't a "don't pay attention" thing which is a major downer for me.  Also, that summon feature isn't about getting your car to you, it is to park without you in the car or to stand next to the car and have it pull out of a spot.

I expected a lot more out of those two features and was quickly shot down on them.

[zman13 178]

Consumer Reports doesn't like the Model 3:

Quote

Our testers also found flaws—big flaws—such as long stopping distances in our emergency braking test and difficult-to-use controls.

These problems keep the Model 3 from earning a Consumer Reports recommendation.

https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/tesla-model-3-review-falls-short-of-consumer-reports-recommendation/

[zman13 178]

Car and Driver on the braking

Quote

The Tesla barely ekes out a win in this category with its stop from 70 mph, although we did notice a bizarre amount of variation in our test, which involves six consecutive panic stops—the third of these stops took an interminable 196 feet.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-tesla-model-3-in-depth-review-performance-and-driving-impressions-review

[VolenteHawk 495]

On 4/9/2018 at 9:27 AM, Whitman said:

I think that we are doing autopilot wrong.  Too many external things going on.  Relate it back to flying.  Flying/corrections are fairly simple (I will admit all of my time is in a Cessna 172), it is the landing and taking off or handling some unplanned problem that may occur that requires a bit of activity.

I think what we should be doing is having autopilots designed for our interstates, not cities.  Take Rt 95 here on the east coast.  I can drive almost the whole east coast on it.  Basically you would dive up to whatever exit number you are getting on and plug in (voice/screenpad) what exit you want to get off.  It then takes over and ques you up to get/merge on to RT 95 and then drives you to the exit programmed.  It takes you off at the exit and then you either take over or it places you into a spot waiting for you to wake up or turn off facebook/NSAA.  Anytime during your trip you want to change your destination or get off and get a snack, you take over (just like current cruise control) and no big deal.  I think sometimes that we want to run before we are walking with this technology.  Do this first on Rt 95 or 81 or 64 out here (or whatever the equivalent is in other places).

We're not really doing it wrong, the technology is just in its infancy.  We're currently carrying around cells phones that look like briefcases, but we'll eventually get to the smart phone.  The city driving stuff that we're struggling to solve mostly applies to interstate driving too, we're just very early in the learning/implementation of figuring this stuff out.

 

Edited May 22, 2018 by VolenteHawk

[Smax 3,800]

On 4/9/2018 at 11:53 AM, Jhawk said:

I test drove both the X and S (with the P100 package) today.

- Amazing cars

- amazing performance

- Not enough autopilot.

Personally, both I and my dad enjoyed the X more than the S.  Sure the speed is good but the X was a little more comfortable (old man said S was harder than his porsche to get into).  Performance is nice but how often do you need to get to 45mph before the end of the intersection?  I like the feasibility of the X, I currently drive a jeep GC, for my needs.  The other alarming thing was the "trip to denver" scenario.  I haven't driven from KC to denver in a long time, but it is typically a 8-9 hour depending on the stops.  With Tesla it is a 3 stop drive (I can make it in 2) and you are 20+ minutes at each stop.  Not very appealing.  But I don't drive to Denver.  I drive to Tulsa and NW Arkansas both of which are just under 300 miles away.  Ok.... that presents a new problem.  I have to either stop in Joplin (not on my way to the lake) and wait it out for 20 minutes, or get to Tulsa on my last few miles and wait it out for 20 minutes.  I'm not sure I have that in me.

I would buy a 3 if I could get it right now (as in not have to wait in line).  They are worth it and you could fully upgrade so when the autopilot has evolved in 3-5 years you are rocking and rolling (about 60k to fully load).  But that isn't an option right now because of the lines.  The biggest scare is that Tesla isn't around in 3-5 years.  At some point the company has to make money to make the cars viable.  I don't doubt it will happen but I don't want to be the one with a 100k car if it doesn't happen.  

Personally, I want the autopilot.  But I want it map driven and fully functional so I essentially have a chauffeur.  I am not going to pay $100k for a daily driver and still have to drive it when they are tantalizingly close to me not having to drive it.  I think Tesla has a critical 3 years ahead of it with getting production in order and making the autopilot work how a normal driver would.  If they accomplish that, I'd pay another 20k for the car.

Was a great experience though.

 

 

The X is one of the most unattractive vehicles on the road

[Viper 12,096]

13 minutes ago, zman13 said:

Car and Driver on the braking

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-tesla-model-3-in-depth-review-performance-and-driving-impressions-review

would this be explained by manufacturing process inconsistencies? It seems like they've shut down the plants and remodeled 2 or 3 times.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Viper