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Posted
Quote

The Mul­ti­modal Treat­ment Study of ADHD (MTA Study) is the largest ADHD treat­ment study ever con­duct­ed ...

...

Three broad con­clu­sions can be drawn from this study.

First, there was sub­stan­tial per­sis­tence of ADHD symp­toms into adult­hood. Although not mean youth with ADHD con­tin­ue to strug­gle with ADHD as adults, this is not a con­di­tion that most chil­dren sim­ply out­grow. Rather, it is like­ly to be a chron­ic con­di­tion that must be man­aged effec­tive­ly over time. Keep­ing effec­tive treat­ment in place over many years, while extreme­ly chal­leng­ing, may often be nec­es­sary.

Sec­ond, although the ben­e­fits of med­ica­tion treat­ment on ADHD symp­toms dis­si­pate, the impact on adult stature per­sists. Con­sis­tent med­ica­tion treat­ment through ado­les­cence was not linked to reduced symp­toms in young adult­hood; unfor­tu­nate­ly, how­ev­er, it was asso­ci­at­ed with reduced adult height . The impact on height was not triv­ial, with aver­age dif­fer­ences between Con­sis­tent and Neg­li­gi­ble med­ica­tion treat­ment groups of rough­ly 2 inch­es. One impli­ca­tion of this find­ing is that reduc­ing med­ica­tion dose, which can be done when med­ica­tion is com­bined with behav­ior ther­a­py, could be an effec­tive way to mit­i­gate adverse height out­comes.

...

 

More:  https://sharpbrains.com/blog/2018/03/16/consistent-use-of-adhd-medication-may-stun-growth-by-2-inches-large-study-finds/

Reference:  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28295312

 

The study did not track or compare EEG Neurofeedback as a treatment modality.  I'd be really interested to see the persistence data on patients who went that route.

Posted

As the father of a 9 year old on ADHD meds, this has my attention. We see the doctor every 6 months to make sure he is still growing and so far there have been no issues. He’s one of the tallest in his class even though he is one of the youngest. This does have me concerned though.

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Posted

Doc, I understand that you are tall, but your personal experience (assuming that you were a consistent user of the drug mentioned in the study) appears to be an outlier.  The study mentioned in the OP included over 600 people.  I'm not a statistician, but it seems like the reported results had some statistical significance.

Posted

@Viper - it's not clear from the summary on the PubMed abstract and I don't have a subscription to read the details.  The PubMed abstract references J Child Psychol Psychiatry. 2017 Jun;58(6):663-678, but I don't have a copy of that either.

The blog post that I quoted says:

Quote

... Dur­ing the annu­al assess­ments, infor­ma­tion on treat­ments received in the pri­or year was obtained; par­tic­i­pants were con­sid­ered to have received med­ica­tion treat­ment if they had tak­en the equiv­a­lent of at least 10 mg of methylphenidate on at least half the days dur­ing the year. ...

methylphenidate = Ritalin

Posted
8 minutes ago, Viper said:

for myself he was struggling with school and we took him to a psychiatrist that specialized in ADHD diagnosis. 

this is exactly why we did it for our boys. the difference at school is night and day.

but i do know that the drug depresses their overall mid-day appetite, and it would not surprise me if that had a knock-on effect on growth curves. but our shit is all fucked because they were both premature births.

Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Viper said:

for myself he was struggling with school and we took him to a psychiatrist that specialized in ADHD diagnosis. 

My son was on Adderrall from 6th - 8th grade. We did the same thing and saw a remarkable improvement.

6 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

this is exactly why we did it for our boys. the difference at school is night and day.

but i do know that the drug depresses their overall mid-day appetite, and it would not surprise me if that had a knock-on effect on growth curves. but our shit is all fucked because they were both premature births.

We saw a drop in appetite with my son. We had to constantly remind him to eat for a couple of years. While he did drop some weight he never became underweight.

Edited by F250
Posted

My son started taking it in 9th grade.  He's now 6'1" at 18.

You're telling me he could have been in the NBA?  Who do I fucking SUE??  I need to get Kevin Morgan's shitbag attorney.

Posted (edited)

I wonder if dosage is a factor. I would assume so. My son recently was switched from a low dose of focalin to vayvanse but he has friends who I know take 3-4x his dosage. 

I second the positive effects. He failed the STAAR one year and then after beginning therapy and focalin he aced the STAAR and tested into every pre-AP class in middle school including math that’s 2 years ahead of his grade.  Consistent honor roll now. This is after we worried he might need to be held back after 4th grade. 

Hes short, but he was short long before taking any meds. 

Edited by Chuychanga
Posted
3 hours ago, Doc Holliday said:

Fake news.  Even smoking cigs and every other thing I did poorly as a child did not stunt my growth

mr. holliday, you were well on your way to 7'11" until that first marlboro.

Posted
4 hours ago, bernorange said:

Doc, I understand that you are tall, but your personal experience (assuming that you were a consistent user of the drug mentioned in the study) appears to be an outlier.  The study mentioned in the OP included over 600 people.  I'm not a statistician, but it seems like the reported results had some statistical significance.

Yes, and out of respect for the sincerity of the subject, I didn't have the H, I do/did have the rest and was never on Ritalin or meds for it.  I learned how to cope and eased through most of primary schooling despite getting sent to the principal's office, detention, and general ruckus instigation because I was bored.  😂

57 minutes ago, The University said:

mr. holliday, you were well on your way to 7'11" until that first marlboro.

Yes, was actually supposed to be 7'2" and I'm happily at my height which technically could be considered stunted. 😂

Posted

Ours was struggling in school. We started on Vyvnase but had to switch to Focalin recently. His behavior at school is better, but he still struggles to focus long enough to get as good as grades as he should. He can also be a real asshole at home at times when the medication wears off. We take him to counseling every other week as we keep trying to work through it. It can be exhausting.

Posted
On 3/28/2018 at 11:39 AM, bernorange said:

The study did not track or compare EEG Neurofeedback as a treatment modality.  I'd be really interested to see the persistence data on patients who went that route.

Different study appears to answer this question. 

Quote

 A study just published in the February issue of the medical journal European Child & Adolescent Psychiatry shows Neurofeedback to have long-term positive effects in children with ADHD.

Neurofeedback is a non-invasive therapy, which is used to train brain activity, visualizing EEG waves on a computer screen via electrodes. This has been shown to help reduce symptoms of ADHD in children, particularly inattention and hyperactivity. However, scientists have debated whether the reported effects are long-lasting and a viable alternative to prescribing children with medications.

In this latest study, researchers compiled data of more than 500 children with ADHD comparing the results of Neurofeedback, with medications and "non-active" (no treatment) conditions. To critically interpret the data, researchers with different views on Neurofeedback were selected to contribute to the study.

They found that Neurofeedback had sustainable effects in the longer term, with positive and significant effects observed after six months of treatment. Moreover, the findings show that the effects of Neurofeedback show a tendency to improve over time, with no ongoing therapy sessions needed after the initial program compared to the group, which was still taking medication at six-month follow-up.

...

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/study-confirms-neurofeedback-has-long-term-benefit-for-children-with-adhd-300601435.html

Posted

As a school administrator, I work with parents a lot on these decisions and giving good info to their doctors. My only comment is that it amazes me how differently the same med and dosage can impact different kids. We have had to tell parents to get their kid off a certain drug because they became a zombie on a tiny dose. Same thing for a different kid is like a miracle drug with all the benefits and almost no negative side effects. All I can suggest is to play around with it until you find what works. Also, don’t forget the behavioral side of it in teaching specific organizational strategies. The meds may help, but they don’t replace those lessons.

As far as the article, the most common side effect we see is loss of appetite. It’s also the most common reason I see parents taking their kid off meds. Some meds are better than others in that area so a switch sometimes works.

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Posted
On 3/28/2018 at 12:53 PM, Hate said:

As the father of a 9 year old on ADHD meds, this has my attention. We see the doctor every 6 months to make sure he is still growing and so far there have been no issues. He’s one of the tallest in his class even though he is one of the youngest. This does have me concerned though.

Father of a 13 year old with ADHD here. We've had a lot of luck with:

1. Using the smallest effective dose. 5mg Adderall is enough, and more hasn't proven necessary.

2. Giving him breaks from the medication when possible. Like on weekends.

3. His school emphasizes intense exercise to moderate the condition as opposed to higher doses. In particular, the school sends their miscreants off to set world records in open sea marathon swim relays. Like 27 mile swim relays.

He's 5'8" at age thirteen, but he does have genetics in his favor somewhat.

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Posted
2 hours ago, Larry T. Spider said:

As a school administrator, I work with parents a lot on these decisions and giving good info to their doctors. My only comment is that it amazes me how differently the same med and dosage can impact different kids. We have had to tell parents to get their kid off a certain drug because they became a zombie on a tiny dose. Same thing for a different kid is like a miracle drug with all the benefits and almost no negative side effects. All I can suggest is to play around with it until you find what works. Also, don’t forget the behavioral side of it in teaching specific organizational strategies. The meds may help, but they don’t replace those lessons.

As far as the article, the most common side effect we see is loss of appetite. It’s also the most common reason I see parents taking their kid off meds. Some meds are better than others in that area so a switch sometimes works.

This is all great stuff. What we've done re: appetite is big breakfasts and dinners, before he's started the meds and after the meds have worn off. We just don't expect him to eat much at lunch, and increase his caloric intake at the other meals (plus snacks).

This is not possible with e.g. Strattera or other non stimulant meds that are effectively in you 24/7.

Posted

More on the MTA study @ https://www.nimh.nih.gov/funding/clinical-research/practical/mta/the-multimodal-treatment-of-attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder-study-mta-questions-and-answers.shtml

The core study was completed in the 90s or early 2000s.  The drug treatment in the core study was individually optimized dosing of methylphenidate (Ritalin).  The study bern is citing in the OP is a followup observational study. After the 14m core study, treatment was usual care directed by individual provider, so they likely switched around various stimulants.  I'd be interested in seeing how they defined consistent and inconsistent use, and the results for each of those subgroups.  Not sure why that paper is not publicly available, the study was NIMH funded. 

Posted

The data is conflicting and some research shows that growth is delayed commonly but not ultimately stunted under genetic potential.  There's a lot of stuff we don't know.  The medical pendulum keeps swinging.

These are medicines that can be extremely helpful if a person truly needs them. Proper diagnosis is the key. ADHD symptoms can cross over with many other mental health issues.  You don't necessarily want to put a kid with conduct disorder on ADHD medicine. Bad mojo.

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Posted
On 3/31/2018 at 12:59 PM, Newdoc said:

The data is conflicting and some research shows that growth is delayed commonly but not ultimately stunted under genetic potential.  There's a lot of stuff we don't know.  The medical pendulum keeps swinging.

These are medicines that can be extremely helpful if a person truly needs them. Proper diagnosis is the key. ADHD symptoms can cross over with many other mental health issues.  You don't necessarily want to put a kid with conduct disorder on ADHD medicine. Bad mojo.

True. Way I heard it, ADHD is both tremendously over-diagnosed and under-diagnosed. We were very skeptical of the initial diagnosis, and I swear it took me 2 years before I really understood just what ADHD was. And we waited a good year before we began any meds, and even then minimal.

Turns out, my son really does have ADHD, and really does need the meds... but not very much of it.

  • 7 years later...
Posted

i thought this was common knowledge?  As a father of two, one of the kids that had a friend with ADHD, was put on meds, and he's now tiny.  What I always thought was that it severely inhibits your appetite - which causes the slower growth cycle, not the actual meds themselves.  

Posted

CHIEF Jr. had been on Vyvanse 70mg (highest dosage available), since the fourth grade. He cut back to 50mg about a year and a half ago. He was always average to a little above average height and weight during high school and college. He is now 6' and 225 lbs. and could stand to loose the 25, and be about perfect. Not sure if he would have been any taller. I do know that if he doesn't take it on weekends, he can eat a month worth of groceries in two days. 

He was a straight C student until the fourth grade, but it was straight As as soon as he started ADHD medication. I wasn't really happy about putting him on it, but the academic outcome is hard to deny. He was diagnosed by an ADHD specialist, we tried every supplement, vitamin, herbal remedy in the book before we put him on it. Nothing worked until Vyvanse.

CHIEF

 

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Posted
On 3/31/2018 at 12:05 AM, Rimbo said:

Father of a 13 year old with ADHD here. We've had a lot of luck with:

1. Using the smallest effective dose. 5mg Adderall is enough, and more hasn't proven necessary.

2. Giving him breaks from the medication when possible. Like on weekends.

3. His school emphasizes intense exercise to moderate the condition as opposed to higher doses. In particular, the school sends their miscreants off to set world records in open sea marathon swim relays. Like 27 mile swim relays.

He's 5'8" at age thirteen, but he does have genetics in his favor somewhat.

Update.

Son is now 6'5". So any reduction in growth was welcome.

DAUGHTER has been using meds a few years, and there's a VERY clear change in growth after she started using it. We are a bit concerned.

Posted
42 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

CHIEF Jr. had been on Vyvanse 70mg (highest dosage available), since the fourth grade. He cut back to 50mg about a year and a half ago. He was always average to a little above average height and weight during high school and college. He is now 6' and 225 lbs. and could stand to loose the 25, and be about perfect. Not sure if he would have been any taller. I do know that if he doesn't take it on weekends, he can eat a month worth of groceries in two days. 

He was a straight C student until the fourth grade, but it was straight As as soon as he started ADHD medication. I wasn't really happy about putting him on it, but the academic outcome is hard to deny. He was diagnosed by an ADHD specialist, we tried every supplement, vitamin, herbal remedy in the book before we put him on it. Nothing worked until Vyvanse.

CHIEF

 

"Don't take Vyvanse if you're allergic to Vyvanse."

Posted
2 hours ago, babysdaddy said:

bump.  I've got an ADHD kid and he takes contempla.  It has worked wonders for school but I'm terrified of what we are doing to him over the longer term.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/13/magazine/adhd-medication-treatment-research.html

TLDR:

  • While ADHD meds help with behavior, academic gains vanish after about a year 
  • ADHD is not a "brain disorder" - there is no biological marker for ADHD - but rather a condition that one experiences
  • ADHD symptoms fluctuate over time and environments
  • A long term study found that kids on ADHD meds are about 1 inch shorter than comparison group
  • Diagnosis of ADHD is stigmatizing and leads to a loss of responsibility and empowerment
  • An astonishing 23% of 17 year olds are on ADHD meds

Thank goodness I was never faced with external pressure to do so (school classroom teachers are the worst and think all "bad" kids need meds), but I would never, ever, ever put my kid on ADHD meds.

Posted
21 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

TLDR:

  • While ADHD meds help with behavior, academic gains vanish after about a year 
  • ADHD is not a "brain disorder" - there is no biological marker for ADHD - but rather a condition that one experiences
  • ADHD symptoms fluctuate over time and environments
  • A long term study found that kids on ADHD meds are about 1 inch shorter than comparison group
  • Diagnosis of ADHD is stigmatizing and leads to a loss of responsibility and empowerment
  • An astonishing 23% of 17 year olds are on ADHD meds

Thank goodness I was never faced with external pressure to do so (school classroom teachers are the worst and think all "bad" kids need meds), but I would never, ever, ever put my kid on ADHD meds.

that's good that you have opinions about ADHD.  They're all wrong though....

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Posted
1 hour ago, Message Board User said:

TLDR:

  • While ADHD meds help with behavior, academic gains vanish after about a year 
  • ADHD is not a "brain disorder" - there is no biological marker for ADHD - but rather a condition that one experiences
  • ADHD symptoms fluctuate over time and environments
  • A long term study found that kids on ADHD meds are about 1 inch shorter than comparison group
  • Diagnosis of ADHD is stigmatizing and leads to a loss of responsibility and empowerment
  • An astonishing 23% of 17 year olds are on ADHD meds

Thank goodness I was never faced with external pressure to do so (school classroom teachers are the worst and think all "bad" kids need meds), but I would never, ever, ever put my kid on ADHD meds.

Causation - amphetamines curb appetite leading to nutrition deficits leading to growth deficits. 

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Posted
Ok read the article yourself and get back with me.

Your ability to discriminate and discern what data is appropriate for digestion and what is not is fascinating. I could probably find you a half dozen articles on why you should only drink your own urine seeing as it’s been through the most advanced filtration system known to man.
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Posted
3 hours ago, Message Board User said:
  • ADHD is not a "brain disorder" - there is no biological marker for ADHD - but rather a condition that one experiences

What is the biological marker for schizophrenia? Depression? Bipolar disorder? ASD? Etc. etc. etc. 

Posted
5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

What is the biological marker for schizophrenia? Depression? Bipolar disorder? ASD? Etc. etc. etc. 

They have this really cool new website called "Google."  It's really neat.  You can put in phrases like "biological markers of depression" and it just - BAM - gives you links to all the information you may need about the subject!  It's a-may-zing!  You should try it yourself one day but I'll give you head start:

https://www.google.com/search?q=biological+markers+of+depression&sca_esv=eca5bc19763b5d0c&ei=6xz_Z561ILLmwN4PmJjT8QM&ved=0ahUKEwje1qO4x9uMAxUyM9AFHRjMND4Q4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=biological+markers+of+depression&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiIGJpb2xvZ2ljYWwgbWFya2VycyBvZiBkZXByZXNzaW9uMgsQABiABBiRAhiKBTIGEAAYFhgeMgsQABiABBiGAxiKBTILEAAYgAQYhgMYigUyCxAAGIAEGIYDGIoFMggQABiABBiiBDIIEAAYgAQYogQyCBAAGIAEGKIESKYOUJQEWNoLcAJ4AZABAJgBT6ABjwWqAQIxMLgBA8gBAPgBAZgCDKACkwbCAgoQABiwAxjWBBhHwgIFEAAY7wWYAwCIBgGQBgSSBwIxMqAH60CyBwIxMLgHhQY&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

 

Posted
On 3/28/2018 at 3:41 PM, F250 said:

We saw a drop in appetite with my son. We had to constantly remind him to eat for a couple of years. While he did drop some weight he never became underweight.

Damn, time goes by fast. Once my kid hit high school the suppressed appetite was no longer an issue. I think he was eating 3500+ calories a day in high school and steadily adding muscle mass throughout the years.

From what I recall, once he had the big puberty growth the Adderall didn't hit him nearly as hard.

Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

What happens if you put in "biological markers of ADHD"?

 

For most mental health conditions what you will find is a list of putative biomarkers. None of which are at this point consistent and reliable to guide diagnosis of nor assess treatment outcomes for these conditions. Some of the challenges in identifying reliable biomarkers for these conditions are our fundamentally poor understand of the complex and heterogeneous underlying pathophysiology and neurochemistry involved and the many genetic and epigenetic influencing factors. Advances are being made, esp leveraging some of the new analytical tools, but it's totally absurd to point to the lack of well defined biomarkers as proof of anything for any of these conditions.  

 

But yeah sure, maybe I just need to google it more.  

Edited by Anastasis
  • Like 1
Posted
4 hours ago, Message Board User said:

Thank goodness I was never faced with external pressure to do so (school classroom teachers are the worst and think all "bad" kids need meds),

Your parents probably should have listened to your teachers.

Here we are decades later.

4qWea8GZas-2.png.1a1eee47207558257fcaa72b483dd279.png

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Posted

I have so many thoughts on this topic right now I wish I could organize them to try and explain to yall exactly what adhd is as a life long "sufferer(?)" but then again I don't really think it's going to do anything much productive in this conversation because people get really weird about meds for some reason (I get it i really do, i have never been on add meds and it took me to my mid 40s to consider amd start taking antidepressants) and they just shut down and refuse to listen to other people's experiences because some weird part of their identity needs to believe in the superpowers of the human whatever system but they will take their statins and boner pills and their milk thistle and say hey that works for me but I'm here to tell you what works for your and your kids

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Posted

That was the most ADHD run on sentence I’ve ever seen.  

I was diagnosed last year on the insistence of my wife, who rightfully called out my apparent inability to finish anything.  My current dose is 20mg Adderall x2 daily, and I cut them in half and space them out.  When I’m on it, I’m focused and motivated to tackle one thing at a time so they actually get done.

Our younger kiddo, who is 8, was mightily struggling in school.  My wife deftly navigated the system so the 8yo was screened for services and look at that she’s dyslexic.  Saw progress but when teacher noted she struggled with attention, she saw a specialist and is now on Focalin XR at 10mg once daily but skips weekends.  

The difference is night and day.  She’s 98th percentile for height and absolutely crushing it at school, sports and theater.  We were both hesitant on going down this road with our daughter, but I feel like the risk profile should be considered unique to each individual and so long as parents consider all information…it’s their choice.  

Of course RFK is going to empower a whole generation of ADHD experts…helping them append their existing mastery of the stock market, global pandemics, international relations, disaster relief, monetary policy, and economic strategy…do not surprised to see this bubble up again. 

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Posted

The recent growth effects of ADHD medication have come back into the spotlight and for now, the best current evidence seems to indicate a 1 to 3 cm adult height growth restriction for consistent longer term administration of ADHD medication. I longer practice in this area of treatment but would usually highly encourage parents to take their children off the medication for non school days including summer. Also, using the lowest effective dose is generally a good idea. 

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Posted (edited)

When considering the benefits versus the possible side effects, especially relative to some other advertised meds; being short almost seems like a feature.

One of my adult sons is on it.  Makes all the difference in the world, almost exactly like Homercles describes it.

Edited by Iceman

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