Computer Qestion & Help

[Soldierhorn 206]

Baseline: On my tower computer, I run Win10 Pro on a system I built a few years ago that runs at 3.6gh processing as a baseline w/out overclocking, 49gb ram, w/5 internal hard drives. Along with other stuff, I also have a hot-swap port on the front of my tower that accepts 2.5" & 3.5" internal drives. 

I'm not a novice but I'm not a computer science kind of guy either.  I probably still have every version of windows I've used going back to DOS 6.0 along with other operating system versions (linux, ubuntu, newdos, ect).  I could probably figure this out but... I'm getting old and when you get old, time becomes a premium so if someone can lead me in the right direction, it could save me a LOT of time. 

Issue: What I would like to do is run Windows XP on a 2.5" drive inserted in the front of my tower computer while I'm still running Win 10.  Why?  I have stacks of old games and programs that will not run on Win 10 and would love to insert the drive and run a game every now and then.  Sure,  I have several old computers (both tower & laptops) out in the garage that I could get to work (and may anyway for the grankids) but I'd like to figure this out.

What I've done:  l selected a 2.5" 100gb drive for this purpose and formatted it to FAT32.  I turned off all other drives (w/on-off button switches on the front of the tower) and left this drive as the only boot-able drive. I powered up the system with a WinXP Pro disk. It went through the windows process of gathering information and when that was done, I repeatedly got the blue screen of death. 

I'm assuming my system capabilities far exceed what WinXP handle, even with a fresh install. Therefore, IMO, the BSoD is likely a runtime error or something of that nature.  Along with that, I would think there are disk space memory limitations, ram memory limitations, resolution, limitations  and other issues with running XP in the modern computing environment. 

Questions:  How do I make a drive seem like an old Win95/98/XP environment in order for XP to load properly?  and, thus, be able to load a lot of simple games on that drive?  

Is there a way to make that specific drive a container with Win95/98/XP limitations insular of computer's real capabilities?  

I've done some reading up on creating a virtual machine. if this is the only way to get the results I want, how do I load WinXP in a virtual drive while already in Win10 environment?  or do I need WinXP at all in the virtual drive?  Would I simply need to create a "Programs File" as a placeholder to install the old games?  That then brings op other issues such as will the game in virtual container be able to use Win10 settings for internal or external LAN for multiple players. For instance, I have several friends that would like to play the old axis & allies game Win98 version via the internet if I can figure this out. 

thanks in advance for any help, suggestions, or opinions.

[immamac 43713]

right click and run in compatability mode?

https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/set-compatibility-mode-windows-10

[Soldierhorn 206]

Yeah, I should have mentioned compatibility mode in my OP.  I'm finding all games dont work in compatibility mode.  I'd like to create a container environment to host all the old games. 

Edited January 11, 2019 by Soldierhorn

[0xdeadbeef 1654]

Depending on the games you want to run, a much better way would be to install a Hypervisor under Windows 10 and create an Virtual Machine.   Install XP in said VM and run the games there.    VMware Player is free for personal use and would fit nicely with what you want to do.    Some higher-end games don't like VMs and want more direct access to a GPU; assuming these are games from the XP time frame, that probably shouldn't be a problem.

 

 

[Blotto 23755]

VM seems like the way to go.

[Soldierhorn 206]

27 minutes ago, 0xdeadbeef said:

Depending on the games you want to run, a much better way would be to install a Hypervisor under Windows 10 and create an Virtual Machine.   Install XP in said VM and run the games there.    VMware Player is free for personal use and would fit nicely with what you want to do.    Some higher-end games don't like VMs and want more direct access to a GPU; assuming these are games from the XP time frame, that probably shouldn't be a problem.

 

 

Great suggestions!  I just did some quick reading on Hyprevisor and will try VMware Player later this evening.  I will post how it works out later. 

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

Is your win xp cd a 64 bit version?  Other than that  I remember having problems when I was doing something  similar.  I basically had 2 hard drives with different os'a on each and would unplug the one i didnt want and plug in the one I wanted to use .  I seem to remember if I just unplugged the power, but left in the data cable, things would go bad.  But this was in the old ide days and the hard drives still had master/slave jumpers and shit.

[kevwun 15963]

Yeah, the 32bit version of XP can only handle 4gb of RAM.  64bit is 128gb.  VM is the way to go for this as others suggested.  You are going to run in to all kind of hardware problems otherwise.

Edited January 11, 2019 by kevwun

[Soldierhorn 206]

25 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Is your win xp cd a 64 bit version?  Other than that  I remember having problems when I was doing something  similar.  I basically had 2 hard drives with different os'a on each and would unplug the one i didnt want and plug in the one I wanted to use .  I seem to remember if I just unplugged the power, but left in the data cable, things would go bad.  But this was in the old ide days and the hard drives still had master/slave jumpers and shit.

hhhmmm  Interesting.  The CD doesnt say 64 bit and I would think if it were 64 bit, the label would say it... but I cant say for sure.  The label does say XP Pro SP2  2002.  I've only recently (last 5 yrs or so) gone to 64bit with my computers so I'm almost certain that I didnt have a 64 bit computer in the early to mid 2000s.  Even this tower computer was Win7 32 bit up until I put Win 10 on it. And, I only changed to Win 10 because I found the Win 7-32 had too many unnecessary limitations such as RAM limited to 4gb (maybe 8, cant remember.) and no USB 3, IIRC, Win7-64 expanded RAM to 16gb but still no usb3 which was becoming a problem. I liked Win 7 but the limitations were becoming a problem. Once I went to Win10 I could expand capabilities to what the motherboard could put out - very nice and worth the change. 

[kevwun 15963]

64bit was not widely in use when XP was in it's heyday.  It very well could be a 32bit version of it.

[Soldierhorn 206]

yeah, I'm not a computer geek but I dont think I've never seen a XP - 64 bit system.  It seems like overkill for a XP OS

[kevwun 15963]

I still have a Dell 64bit installation cd, but I almost never used it.  We didn't switch to 64bit until Windows 7.

[Francisco 2.0 32442]

21 minutes ago, Soldierhorn said:

yeah, I'm not a computer geek but I dont think I've never seen a XP - 64 bit system.  It seems like overkill for a XP OS

I've got 64bit XP discs somewhere in the office, but meh.

 

As for your blue screen, probably a driver issue since XP is freaked the hell out with your current hardware.  Keep in mind, you are taking a (shit, I'm old) an OS that is coming up on 18 years old and expecting it to install on modern equipment.

Virtual is the way to go here, chief.  Pick up virtual box, run it, follow the prompts, stick in your XP disc, and rock on.

 

 

 

 

[gyroprotagonist 2595]

just recently I got xp installed and running on a 1TB drive.  I am pretty sure it was the 64 bit version.  I did not try any games or other software as I was just screwing around after my boot drive failed on an W8 system, but it booted up OK and was able to see drives and stuff in the win explorer.

[elfenix 34396]

your XP disc is most likely a 32 bit disc.  64 bit was a separate disc, with a different key (i have one somewhere).  the drivers for a lot of your hardware probably don't support any version of XP (windows driver model changed for vista/7 and again for 8/10, iirc).  it can't deal with all the ram you have (48 gigs like whoa), it can't deal with all the processor cores you have (dual cores were becoming commonplace on the high end during XP's run, you probably have 8 logical cores if not more). 

 

either use a VM or build an old computer.  core2duo w/ 4 gb ram, and an x1900xtx would be killer for anything you'd want to run on XP. 

Edited January 11, 2019 by elfenix

[Dbeasy 15264]

I have a stupid question. I use Google Drive to hold my files. It's approaching 2 TB. When I sync the folders to the desktop, I'm using almost the full 2 TB drive I have on the computer. Does everyone sync their files to the desktop, and if so, why aren't more people running up against their desktop drive size limits? I notice that for new desktops, few come with 2 TB of storage anymore.  I must be missing something.

[ztejas 43777]

31 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I have a stupid question. I use Google Drive to hold my files. It's approaching 2 TB. When I sync the folders to the desktop, I'm using almost the full 2 TB drive I have on the computer. Does everyone sync their files to the desktop, and if so, why aren't more people running up against their desktop drive size limits? I notice that for new desktops, few come with 2 TB of storage anymore.  I must be missing something.

I would ask yourself what you're paying for. Right now, youre basically just paying for the cloud functionality - i.e. being able to access it from other devices, upload/download files from your phone, laptop, work computer (whatever else you use). Since you're backing up all of your files on a hard drive you're not really paying for the storage aspect (if that makes sense). Although if something were to happen to your hard drive, then you would have everything backed up on your google cloud. But, if that's part of the reason you are using gdrive, then it might make more sense to just get a big external hard drive to store everything and clean off your OS drive to only keep what you access frequently.

I use google too - and I use it for basically all 3 of the purposes I outlined - additional storage, accessibility, and as a back up regardless of what might happen to my system physically. I also have a TB SSD that I run my OS on - but most of that storage is taken up by games. I also have an external 1 TB drive that I use for movies.

There's no "wrong" way to go about what you're doing (assuming your google account is secure and you have at least one back up) I just might think about what you are trying to accomplish - because there are certain options that make sense and don't make sense given what you are looking for.

Edit: if I got too jargony, basically, in layman's terms, the question to ask if you're storing everything on your hard drive anyway would be why are you paying for google?

Edited July 25, 2020 by ztejas

[TwiceHorn 31705]

15 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I would ask yourself what you're paying for. Right now, youre basically just paying for the cloud functionality - i.e. being able to access it from other devices, upload/download files from your phone, laptop, work computer (whatever else you use). Since you're backing up all of your files on a hard drive you're not really paying for the storage aspect (if that makes sense). Although if something were to happen to your hard drive, then you would have everything backed up on your google cloud. But, if that's part of the reason you are using gdrive, then it might make more sense to just get a big external hard drive to store everything and clean off your OS drive to only keep what you access frequently.

I use google too - and I use it for basically all 3 of the purposes I outlined - additional storage, accessibility, and as a back up regardless of what might happen to my system physically. I also have a TB SSD that I run my OS on - but most of that storage is taken up by games. I also have an external 1 TB drive that I use for movies.

There's no "wrong" way to go about what you're doing (assuming your google account is secure and you have at least one back up) I just might think about what you are trying to accomplish - because there are certain options that make sense and don't make sense given what you are looking for.

Edit: if I got too jargony, basically, in layman's terms, the question to ask if you're storing everything on your hard drive anyway would be why are you paying for google?

I suspect he's not paying for google.  UT provides alumni with a utexas.edu gmail address and most of the google suite, to include an unlimited google drive.

[Dbeasy 15264]

I am using Google drive for two reasons. Most importantly, it is an off-site back-up for everything I have. I've used other off-site storage services in the past and they were expensive, confusing and buggy.  I like how Google drive seamlessly sync's/backs up.  I've been reluctant to have different back-up schemes for different content.  For example, if I put a bunch of less used content on an external hard drive, now I have to back up that drive too, and put it somewhere off-site. It's a pain in the arse because if I ever need to go look at and change something, I have to drag that drive out, make changes, and then go do another manual backup.

The second reason is for easy access from any device. If I I wanted to move some content to an external drive, I'd still be butting up against a 1 TB limit on the PC drive. I really don't understand why more people don't have this problem. I've looked at syncing Google Drive to an external hard drive, but that creates some other issues.

Edit: I do pay for 2 TB of Google Drive

Edited July 25, 2020 by Dbeasy

[ztejas 43777]

5 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I really don't understand why more people don't have this problem.

Because most people aren't using their OS drive as backup storage. There are plenty of reasons why you wouldn't want to do this.

8 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I've looked at syncing Google Drive to an external hard drive, but that creates some other issues.

Is there a reason an automatic sync is that important for you? I mean obviously it's a convenience thing - but can't you just manually copy files from your google drive to your external?

[Dbeasy 15264]

3 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Because most people aren't using their OS drive as backup storage. There are plenty of reasons why you wouldn't want to do this.

Is there a reason an automatic sync is that important for you? I mean obviously it's a convenience thing - but can't you just manually copy files from your google drive to your external?

I could be looking at this wrong, but I'm not copying/syncing google drive content to my desktop for backup purposes. I'm doing it to make it much easier to open up and work with documents and files. If the documents and files all reside in Google Drive, I editing becomes a pain in the arse.  Or, is there a workflow I'm following here that doesn't make sense?

[ztejas 43777]

3 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I could be looking at this wrong, but I'm not copying/syncing google drive content to my desktop for backup purposes. I'm doing it to make it much easier to open up and work with documents and files. If the documents and files all reside in Google Drive, I editing becomes a pain in the arse.  Or, is there a workflow I'm following here that doesn't make sense?

...are you using drive file stream?

[Dbeasy 15264]

don't know what that is. Starting to research it and this could be what I've been missing. Does everyone who uses Google Drive use Drive File Stream?

 

Edit 2: only available for non-personal google accounts.

Edited July 25, 2020 by Dbeasy

[ztejas 43777]

I think that's the solution you're looking for - but you need a business or school account. You can start a business for $12/mo which might be worth it.

Drive file stream creates a phantom drive on your desktop that you can access everything on your g drive from. So it's basically like pulling something up from your hard drive, but without taking up any hard drive space. It also syncs in both directions, and if you're offline it will hold the sync until you're online again.

@Dbeasy you can try it free for 14 days. You also get unlimited cloud storage and badass tech support if you ever need it. 

Edited July 25, 2020 by ztejas