Dallas Cowboys 2019 Offseason Thread of Mediocrity

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

1 minute ago, Iceman said:

STFU with the CR bullshit.

 

 

Nah, I’m good. You can mute me if you want, but we need a backup qb pretty bad and there’s an obvious name out there that we won’t sign for CR bullshit reasons. This is a football discussion about this team needing a backup. 

[SurlyBDR 22790]

Can y'all shut the fuck up already

 

Get the fuck out with the CR bullshit 

[Iceman 2710]

4 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Nah, I’m good. You can mute me if you want, but we need a backup qb pretty bad and there’s an obvious name out there that we won’t sign for CR bullshit reasons. This is a football discussion about this team needing a backup. 

It isn't up to me to mute you, fuckstick.

 

Stop it with the cloakrooming of the football board.

[futureman 22462]

kaepernick fucking sucks at football.  how’s that for him not having a job?

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

My bad. Didn’t mean to derail the thread. Just get to week 1 so we have actual football to talk about 

[Nicole44 22060]

The Redskins and Chargers can’t keep all their QBs. Just take one of theirs once they get cut, I guess? Pretty sure (he shouldn’t have gone into the draft when he did) Cardale Jones will be available. 🤷‍♀️ problem solved! Lulz. 

[Junior Miller 1502]

You know Garrett is gonna stump to keep Rush as the backup QB because he "knows the system". 

[futureman 22462]

1 hour ago, youdunnf'dup said:

My bad. Didn’t mean to derail the thread. Just get to week 1 so we have actual football to talk about 

it’s goddamn preseason fake football bullshit.  fuck the haters and post whatever the fuck you want.  they’re all pussies anyway. 

[DougO 5247]

8 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Also, Chris reports Zeke is still in Cabo, even though that viral pic that said Zeke was on a flight back to Dallas. Who knows.

 

 

Ain't no different in sports as regularass fake news.

 

[Dr Fear 1268]

 
Ain't no different in sports as regularass fake news.
 

I can all be true, he has been in Mexico for 3 weeks, maybe he just came home for the weekend.

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[SurlyBDR 22790]

['stache 21815]

Feigning insult as bargaining leverage tells me where the sides are at this point. Zeke and his agent knows they overplayed their hand but can't cave now. Anyone who saw that video knows Jerry was making a joke and immediately made clear Pollard is a complementary part assuming we get the Zeke thing figured out. But that looks like a long shot. Hope the o-line is healthy enough to let Pollard move the ball effectively on a regular basis.

[Junior Miller 1502]

I don't get why almost everyone acts like Zeke is irreplaceable. You wouldn't expect just one player to replace his production but pretty much every team that makes the conference championship games and super bowl every season don't have a 1 horse running back. They have 2 or 3 backs that can give them enough from the position for lower cost. Even the Rams last year ran through the playoffs without Gurley.  

Give Pollard 7-10 carries a game and Morris or another back 10 to 14 carries. Give Pollard 5-8 touches out of the back field when matched against linebackers or safeties. You don't win in a league with a traditional running back where the rules/enforcement by the officials is completely slanted towards passing. You win with QB/receiver play, coaching, and a strong enough defense. Cowboys might have the first, definitely don't have the 2nd, and might have the 3rd if the QB can finally consistently put up points. 

[totallynotabuttpirate 5400]

16 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

I don't get why almost everyone acts like Zeke is irreplaceable. You wouldn't expect just one player to replace his production but pretty much every team that makes the conference championship games and super bowl every season don't have a 1 horse running back. They have 2 or 3 backs that can give them enough from the position for lower cost. Even the Rams last year ran through the playoffs without Gurley.  

Give Pollard 7-10 carries a game and Morris or another back 10 to 14 carries. Give Pollard 5-8 touches out of the back field when matched against linebackers or safeties. You don't win in a league with a traditional running back where the rules/enforcement by the officials is completely slanted towards passing. You win with QB/receiver play, coaching, and a strong enough defense. Cowboys might have the first, definitely don't have the 2nd, and might have the 3rd if the QB can finally consistently put up points. 

Yea, this is definitely the way to go. I've been in the pay Zeke camp, but this holdout nonsense is pushing me over the edge. He either takes a Bell type offer, or it's 2 more years + the tag at least once.  

No way he's stupid enough to sit out the year. 

['stache 21815]

21 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

I don't get why almost everyone acts like Zeke is irreplaceable. You wouldn't expect just one player to replace his production but pretty much every team that makes the conference championship games and super bowl every season don't have a 1 horse running back. They have 2 or 3 backs that can give them enough from the position for lower cost. Even the Rams last year ran through the playoffs without Gurley.  

Give Pollard 7-10 carries a game and Morris or another back 10 to 14 carries. Give Pollard 5-8 touches out of the back field when matched against linebackers or safeties. You don't win in a league with a traditional running back where the rules/enforcement by the officials is completely slanted towards passing. You win with QB/receiver play, coaching, and a strong enough defense. Cowboys might have the first, definitely don't have the 2nd, and might have the 3rd if the QB can finally consistently put up points. 

Those teams usually have a better roster of RB committees. We've been pretty much all in with Zeke since drafting him. But in general I agree. I was pretty critical of letting DeMarco go but his post Cowboys career made pretty clear the OL was a bigger factor in his success. I hope Pollard can carry a bigger load. Morris is fine but not really what I would hope for on a RB committee if a playoff run is the goal.

[totallynotabuttpirate 5400]

3 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Those teams usually have a better roster of RB committees. We've been pretty much all in with Zeke since drafting him. But in general I agree. I was pretty critical of letting DeMarco go but his post Cowboys career made pretty clear the OL was a bigger factor in his success. I hope Pollard can carry a bigger load. Morris is fine but not really what I would hope for on a RB committee if a playoff run is the goal.

There's usually RBs available for a trade later in the year. 

[Vic Mackey 47037]

1 hour ago, Junior Miller said:

I don't get why almost everyone acts like Zeke is irreplaceable. You wouldn't expect just one player to replace his production but pretty much every team that makes the conference championship games and super bowl every season don't have a 1 horse running back. They have 2 or 3 backs that can give them enough from the position for lower cost. Even the Rams last year ran through the playoffs without Gurley.  

Give Pollard 7-10 carries a game and Morris or another back 10 to 14 carries. Give Pollard 5-8 touches out of the back field when matched against linebackers or safeties. You don't win in a league with a traditional running back where the rules/enforcement by the officials is completely slanted towards passing. You win with QB/receiver play, coaching, and a strong enough defense. Cowboys might have the first, definitely don't have the 2nd, and might have the 3rd if the QB can finally consistently put up points. 

Lulz. this same stuff was said in 2015 with McFadden/Randle and we won 4 games.

Again, we aren't other teams. JFC how can people not grasp this simple concept. We are a 90s offense that needs a top tier bell cow RB. This offense sucked without Emmitt. This offense sucked with Demarco and Zeke.

Pollard/Morris = McFadden/Randle. Actually McFadden was better than anyone we have behind Zeke this season.

You want a split carry RB system? Then change the offense to modern times. Otherwise, Zeke is only replaceable if you replace him with guys at his level, which is only a few.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

15 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Lulz. this same stuff was said in 2015 with McFadden/Randle and we won 4 games.

Again, we aren't other teams. JFC how can people not grasp this simple concept. We are a 90s offense that needs a top tier bell cow RB. This offense sucked without Emmitt. This offense sucked with Demarco and Zeke.

Pollard/Morris = McFadden/Randle. Actually McFadden was better than anyone we have behind Zeke this season.

You want a split carry RB system? Then change the offense to modern times. Otherwise, Zeke is only replaceable if you replace him with guys at his level, which is only a few.

I think that had a lot more to do with Romo getting hurt and us having Brandon weeden, Matt cassel, Kellen Moore as a backup. But hey, what do I know 

[futureman 22462]

2 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I think that had a lot more to do with Romo getting hurt and us having Brandon weeden, Matt cassel, Kellen Moore as a backup. But hey, what do I know 

all those quarterbacks are better than dak so getting zeke back is paramount. 

[Vic Mackey 47037]

1 minute ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I think that had a lot more to do with Romo getting hurt and us having Brandon weeden, Matt cassel, Kellen Moore as a backup. But hey, what do I know 

Win 4 games in 2015 with a shit run game. Very next year insert an elite RB and a 4th rd QB and shoot up to 13 wins. Zeke goes away for 6 games in 2017 and offense turns back to 2015 shit.

I mean, how much more clear can it get? This offense only works with a top tier RB. Demarco and Zeke are both that.

[totallynotabuttpirate 5400]

22 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

You want a split carry RB system? Then change the offense to modern times. Otherwise, Zeke is only replaceable if you replace him with guys at his level, which is only a few.

Don't worry Lincoln "Belly Tattoo" Riley is on his way next year. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

6 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Win 4 games in 2015 with a shit run game. Very next year insert an elite RB and a 4th rd QB and shoot up to 13 wins. Zeke goes away for 6 games in 2017 and offense turns back to 2015 shit.

I mean, how much more clear can it get? This offense only works with a top tier RB. Demarco and Zeke are both that.

It really depends on what you think of Dak, and whether or not you think he can elevate his game over the next few years. If you think he can, you don’t pay Zeke. If you don’t think he can, then you pay Zeke. You can’t put that much money into that position unless you absolutely have to. It’s just bad roster management. 

I’m in the camp that feels like we need one more year of evidence on Dak, so hold off on paying both for now.

[Vic Mackey 47037]

13 minutes ago, totallynotabuttpirate said:

Don't worry Lincoln "Belly Tattoo" Riley is on his way next year. 

I'd take him over Garrett if he instills an offense that completely does away with the one we have now. You should never create an offense that relies so heavily on one player outside of the QB. Especially not a position that has a very short life span in today's game. They created this animal now they have to deal with it. They are handcuffed by Zeke and all parties know it. 

I still have no idea why in today's game where passing is getting easier and easier that you want to invest so heavily in RB and OL. Pollard/Morris could easily work if you actually created the right offense for them. Dak excelled in college with the quick reads and shorter passes. Does Dallas not realize those work the same as runs? It softens the defenses and opens it up more. Many teams use quick passes and screens as extended handoffs.

We went all in on RB/OL. You don't need to build a great wall in today's game. Get 2 really good guys at the key spots and fill in with other nice players who will look better because of the really good ones.

Jerry has never really learned how to build a great team under the salary cap. He never sees the big picture. Honestly now is probably the most talented we have been on paper under Jerry in the salary cap era.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Vic Mackey

[totallynotabuttpirate 5400]

Its very similar to the defense stubbornly sticking to Tampa-2 concepts until Richard got here.  

[Pig Bellmont 8718]

I don’t understand Zeke’s leverage. He has to show or get fined, right? He’s not even in the last year of his contract. Watching what happened with Bell would make me want to keep playing. Holding out will not result in a big payday, so wtf?

[Junior Miller 1502]

The Zeke suspension hurt the team but I think what hurt them much worse that season was Tyron going down and Chaz Green/Garrett letting Atlanta put a vicious beating on Dak that Dak didn't recover from for a while. That rattled the shit out of Dak. 

You can't win in the playoffs with a low level 90s ball control running offense, and that's 100 percent because of the rules of the game now. It puts you at a large disadvantage running a low efficiency offense. If they're going to keep doing that then it doesn't matter who they sign because they'll never win more than the division like that. 

The entire argument is predicated on knowing they have to make the offense more Dak centric if they're going to pay him anywhere in the top 10 QB range. If they want to keep running this bumble fuck run offense then they need to not pay Dak and pay Zeke. It will be impossible to pay both and win a super bowl with that offense. 

 

[Sgt Hulk 13716]

19 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

There’s no point in bringing up Kap’s name if trump is in office. He’s blackballed. He’d be on a team if he wasn’t. Josh McCown was the only logical option, but the eagles were the team that lured him out of retirement. We dropped the ball on that one.

take this stupid take to the cloak room with the rest of the circle jerkoffs knobbing each other

[Gene Parmesan 4007]

4 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

I don’t understand Zeke’s leverage. He has to show or get fined, right? He’s not even in the last year of his contract. Watching what happened with Bell would make me want to keep playing. Holding out will not result in a big payday, so wtf?

His leverage is the Cowboys want to win games and not have to go back to the drawing board.

[Gene Parmesan 4007]

7 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

The Zeke suspension hurt the team but I think what hurt them much worse that season was Tyron going down and Chaz Green/Garrett letting Atlanta put a vicious beating on Dak that Dak didn't recover from for a while. That rattled the shit out of Dak. 

You can't win in the playoffs with a low level 90s ball control running offense, and that's 100 percent because of the rules of the game now. It puts you at a large disadvantage running a low efficiency offense. If they're going to keep doing that then it doesn't matter who they sign because they'll never win more than the division like that. 

The entire argument is predicated on knowing they have to make the offense more Dak centric if they're going to pay him anywhere in the top 10 QB range. If they want to keep running this bumble fuck run offense then they need to not pay Dak and pay Zeke. It will be impossible to pay both and win a super bowl with that offense. 

 

That's obviously the logic that led to the devaluation of the running back, but the franchise we are talking about is absolutely trying to win with a ball control offense.

[Pig Bellmont 8718]

1 minute ago, Gene Parmesan said:

His leverage is the Cowboys want to win games and not have to go back to the drawing board.

Fuck him, then. If I’m Cowboys management I put out a fair long term offer, then play hardball. He’s got no other options but to play this season. If he wants to pay the organization to sit on his ass then so be it. 

[Junior Miller 1502]

1 minute ago, Gene Parmesan said:

That's obviously the logic that led to the devaluation of the running back, but the franchise we are talking about is absolutely trying to win with a ball control offense.

Yeah they've been trying to but with the rules and officiating giving you the pass at such a high efficiency level and penalizing the run it is virtually impossible to win a title like that. If they went back to 90s level officiating where you could hold, hand check, and chuck receivers all over the field while diving at the QBs legs every chance you get then this style of offense would be viable again. 

The other limiting factor is QB pay. Virtually no team with a QB paid in the top 10 wins the super bowl. Even the great Brady and Belichick combo never won a Superbowl and any season where Brady was a top 10 paid quarterback. 

So now the Cowboys are trying to take on to virtual and possibilities by running a ball-control running offense and having a top 5 paid QB. There's zero chance in hell even with Belichick coaching and Brady being the QB that they would win a title like that. 

[Gene Parmesan 4007]

Just now, Junior Miller said:

Yeah they've been trying to but with the rules and officiating giving you the pass at such a high efficiency level and penalizing the run it is virtually impossible to win a title like that. If they went back to 90s level officiating where you could hold, hand check, and chuck receivers all over the field while diving at the QBs legs every chance you get then this style of offense would be viable again. 

The other limiting factor is QB pay. Virtually no team with a QB paid in the top 10 wins the super bowl. Even the great Brady and Belichick combo never won a Superbowl and any season where Brady was a top 10 paid quarterback. 

So now the Cowboys are trying to take on to virtual and possibilities by running a ball-control running offense and having a top 5 paid QB. There's zero chance in hell even with Belichick coaching and Brady being the QB that they would win a title like that. 

I agree.  The NFL doesn't seem to be able to control themselves when it comes to QBs.  Yes it's the most important position but with a hard cap you have to have some self control.  Brady takes less than market value for that exact reason.  He'd rather win than be the highest paid.  He's the only one out there doing that though. 

[Trey3216 15346]

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Trey3216

[Dr Fear 1268]

 

Odds Jerry won't piss any players off during the presser?

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[Trey3216 15346]

2 minutes ago, Dr Fear said:

Odds Jerry won't piss any players off during the presser?

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 

Not sure he cares about pissing people off at this point.  He's playing hardball.  He's telling them to get on the train or get left at the station.  

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

9 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

 

I wonder what the number is, but I love the idea of locking him up after one good season with his history. He could be easily regarded as a top 5 LB in the league after this year.

[jeevsie 3734]

Interested in whether that comes with any cap relief.

Oh, that would be a restructure, not extension.

Edited August 20, 2019 by jeevsie
I thought about it.

[Vic Mackey 47037]

Makes sense since they rolled the dice on a 2nd round pick. Might as well extend him or whatever term you want to use. LVE will be in a few years.

[HuntinHorn 975]

Good to see Jaylon get an extension. Dude brings it every play.

Some Surly folks gonna be enjoying some crow tonight.

[Drew 2408]

3 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Lulz. this same stuff was said in 2015 with McFadden/Randle and we won 4 games.

Again, we aren't other teams. JFC how can people not grasp this simple concept. We are a 90s offense that needs a top tier bell cow RB. This offense sucked without Emmitt. This offense sucked with Demarco and Zeke.

Pollard/Morris = McFadden/Randle. Actually McFadden was better than anyone we have behind Zeke this season.

You want a split carry RB system? Then change the offense to modern times. Otherwise, Zeke is only replaceable if you replace him with guys at his level, which is only a few.

Vic me and you have surprisingly been on the same page all offseason, but not here.  The running game was perfectly fine in 2015. McFadden got over 1,000 yards, and even Randle was quality for a few games. The simple fact was that there was absolutely SHIT at QB, and the Receiving options were Slow Witten, declining Dez, and Terrance Williams...oh and a good move the chains guy in Cole.

Yes they improved in 2016, but that was because they really focused on what made Zeke AND Dak great...and what they've went away from since then. Dak running the ball IMO.  It was fresh and new from them, and different than they with Romo and definitely in 2015.

2 hours ago, futureman said:

all those quarterbacks are better than dak so getting zeke back is paramount. 

Blah.

2 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Win 4 games in 2015 with a shit run game. Very next year insert an elite RB and a 4th rd QB and shoot up to 13 wins. Zeke goes away for 6 games in 2017 and offense turns back to 2015 shit.

I mean, how much more clear can it get? This offense only works with a top tier RB. Demarco and Zeke are both that.

They won 3 games with Romo, a QB who can actually play, and lucked into one late in the year.  It was mainly the QB play, and their inability to figure it out without Romo.

I'd bet if Dak went down in week 2, we'd see a similar spiral(but not quite as bad because this roster and defense is better than 2015...so like a 6-7 win season).

 

Oh and Great for Jaylon to get paid, and paid early. He's a good one.

[DougO 5247]

7 hours ago, Dr Fear said:

I can all be true, he has been in Mexico for 3 weeks, maybe he just came home for the weekend.

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"Reporting" something leaving out essential facts and context in order to project a false story is not another form of being true. It's another form of being false.

[Steamboat1874 4062]

8 minutes ago, DougO said:

"Reporting" something leaving out essential facts and context in order to project a false story is not another form of being true. It's another form of being false.

[Dr Fear 1268]

FYI, I have it on good authority that Zeke is either back in Mexico or will be shortly.

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I reported this first, BTW, NBD.

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[Machinator 32099]

 

[Dr Fear 1268]

 

So, this year plus 5 more?

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[Junior Miller 1502]

1 hour ago, HuntinHorn said:

Good to see Jaylon get an extension. Dude brings it every play.

Some Surly folks gonna be enjoying some crow tonight.

It's good he was able to get it back but the problem with the pick is they only got one good season out of 2nd round pick's rookie deal. Now that's better than busting on the pick, but it's worse than getting 3-4 good cheap rookie deal seasons out of the pick. In this cap world it's all about talent on rookie deals. The teams that consistently rack up the most of those are the teams that will win. 

[Machinator 32099]

Just now, Dr Fear said:

So, this year plus 5 more?

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I believe so

[Junior Miller 1502]

8 minutes ago, Machinator said:

 

Something tells me it was Jaylon or Zeke for that 12 mil a year and Zeke said no while Jaylon said yes. I can't see how they possibly get him at 12 a year and Zeke at 13+ while Dak is over 30 and Cooper close to 20. Along with the 3 monster OL contracts that's way way way too top heavy a roster. 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Junior Miller

[Drew 2408]

2 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

It's good he was able to get it back but the problem with the pick is they only got one good season out of 2nd round pick's rookie deal. Now that's better than busting on the pick, but it's worse than getting 3-4 good cheap rookie deal seasons out of the pick. In this cap world it's all about talent on rookie deals. The teams that consistently rack up the most of those are the teams that will win. 

No you're getting at least 2 great seasons(unless you think he'll regress this year) and an up and down redshirt season(year 2). This is an extension, not a replacement year.  His talent was worthy of a VERY high first round pick and if he's as good as he was last, not only was that a GREAT pick, but will have proven to be more than worth it.

 

Plus, the way he played last year probably makes the 2016 draft probably the best ever for the Cowboys if not real close.  And if they win a SB it'll be one of the best, if not the best, ever in the league..  You're talking Zeke, Jaylon, Collins, Dak, Brown, and Frasier? Best RB in the league, franchise QB, what looks like future all pro at LB, a good DT looking like he's going to be wrecking shop today, a quality starting/nickel Corner, and a special teams stud that can start in small doses.  Good shit.

[Drew 2408]

3 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

Something tells me it was Jaylon or Zeke for that 12 mil a year and Zeke said no while Jaylon said yes. I can't see how they possibly get him at 12 a year and Zeke at 13+ while Dak is over 30 and Cooper close to 20. Along with the 3 monster OL contracts that's way way way too top heavy a roster. 

Says who? The cap is going up every year, and as long as someone doesn't get hurt(like Romo), they've been smart with their contract structures so as to not hurt the team.  Add to that they're drafting track record, and their ability to find good players off the scrap heap(Woods, Cobb, ect…) and they'll be able supplement their good players with cheaper ones.

I mean the only other option is to let all their quality drafted players leave.  Kind of the catch 22 of drafting so well.  Now you gotta pay the studs.