Dallas Cowboys 2019 Offseason Thread of Mediocrity

[C-Man 26992]

Zeke also caught 77 balls for 381 touches. Emmitt only had four seasons with that many or more touches.

[Bone3421 716]

You're making a static argument in a dynamic situation.  There weren't many DE/OLB's 20 years ago that were 250-275 lbs that were running 4.4's.  The baseball argument is thrown out the window, as much of the problem with Tommy John topics revolves around specialization and year-round baseball.  If those kids weren't pitching 11 months out of the year, many of their arms would be in better shape.  

 

The changes in the game of football are stark.  Emmitt taking a hit from Gilbert Brown is a whole lot different than Zeke taking hits from Aaron Donald.  Kinetic energy and what not.  (Emmitt didn't take many head on hits either, until later in his career).  

I know the reasons stated in baseball...and i also dont feel that with all the knowledge rb's have about avoiding unnecessary contact that they carry anymore risk than guys 10-20 years ago. Yes players are bigger and faster but with rule changes one can argue it is safer today. My point being i dont think zeke has or will be ran into the ground. 21 to 25 rushes a game is doable and that is his avg.

 

Plus like emmitt; when you have a good line infront of you your not taking a big shot to often. So i dont think 20+ rushes a game is running someone into the ground

 

Now if you want to argue about the jamal anderson's of the world who rushed 400+ times then yeah

 

[Bone3421 716]

Zeke also caught 77 balls for 381 touches. Emmitt only had four seasons with that many or more touches.

I saw the catches but was concerned more with the running into the ground stance...think we all can agree catching a ball out of the backfield is safer option than rushing into the teeth of a defense

[Trey3216 15325]

1 minute ago, Bone3421 said:

I know the reasons stated in baseball...and i also dont feel that with all the knowledge rb's have about avoiding unnecessary contact that they carry anymore risk than guys 10-20 years ago. Yes players are bigger and faster but with rule changes one can argue it is safer today. My point being i dont think zeke has or will be ran into the ground. 21 to 25 rushes a game is doable and that is his avg.

Plus like emmitt; when you have a good line infront of you your not taking a big shot to often. So i dont think 20+ rushes a game is running someone into the ground

Now if you want to argue about the jamal lewis's of the world who rushed 400+ times then yeah

Rules-wise the game is safer, yes.  But that still doesn't factor the pure nature of the actual grind and energy transfer of the game today, IMHO.  I don't think guys like Zeke, Saquon, and others will get straight run into the ground either, but it's because they are unicorns.  They have the ability to both give and avoid the blow.  21-25  carries is absolutely doable.  However, factor in the additional 6-10 catches/gm that a lot of these guys are starting to get, and then my kinetics math starts to make a lot more sense.  

[Trey3216 15325]

4 minutes ago, Bone3421 said:

55 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Zeke also caught 77 balls for 381 touches. Emmitt only had four seasons with that many or more touches.

I saw the catches but was concerned more with the running into the ground stance...think we all can agree catching a ball out of the backfield is safer option than rushing into the teeth of a defense

It is, but you take a lot more pounding on your lower legs and hips when catching out of the backfield than you do running the ball to be honest. 

[Bone3421 716]

Thats fine and i agree with all that. Just stating that my opinion is i think zeke has been managed accordingly by cowboys and not going to be or has been ran into ground like vic alluded to

Star rb's should expect 20+ attempts a game

[Vic Mackey 46919]

12 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

Rules-wise the game is safer, yes.  But that still doesn't factor the pure nature of the actual grind and energy transfer of the game today, IMHO.  I don't think guys like Zeke, Saquon, and others will get straight run into the ground either, but it's because they are unicorns.  They have the ability to both give and avoid the blow.  21-25  carries is absolutely doable.  However, factor in the additional 6-10 catches/gm that a lot of these guys are starting to get, and then my kinetics math starts to make a lot more sense.  

We have the ability to use Zeke like a Bell or Gurley in terms of the pass game. I wish we would. And no, not 1 yard dump offs on 3rd and long. Get him more involved. And as well as use Dak's legs. He is one of the more dynamic runners at QB in this league. Use it. Especially in the red zone. Zeke and Dak's usage in redzone is criminal. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

24 minutes ago, Bone3421 said:

1 hour ago, C-Man said:

Zeke also caught 77 balls for 381 touches. Emmitt only had four seasons with that many or more touches.

I saw the catches but was concerned more with the running into the ground stance...think we all can agree catching a ball out of the backfield is safer option than rushing into the teeth of a defense

Reggie Bush disagrees with you

 

Regardless of whether it’s a rush or a reception, a lot of times guys have a full head of steam when they’re hitting you. Plus, Zeke doesn’t exactly avoid contact like a lot of guys 

Edited July 25, 2019 by youdunnf'dup

[Bone3421 716]

One injury in football doesnt tell the whole narrative...bush coulda got injured on a punt return also

[futureman 22411]

3 hours ago, C-Man said:

Zeke also caught 77 balls for 381 touches. Emmitt only had four seasons with that many or more touches.

emmitt was also just a freak of fucking nature.  small back, not that fast, but rarely ever took a solid hit.  still just crazy he never really got badly injured.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

31 minutes ago, Bone3421 said:

One injury in football doesnt tell the whole narrative...bush coulda got injured on a punt return also

My point still stands though. Nothing about that play is unique. Obviously hits like that aren’t allowed anymore, but when the ball is in your hands as a rb, you’re likely to a car crash just about every time. Especially when a saftey is barreling down on you with a full head of steam. 

Edited July 26, 2019 by youdunnf'dup

[Bone3421 716]

My point still stands though. Nothing about that play is unique. Obviously hits like that aren’t allowed anymore, but when the ball is in your hands as a rb, you’re likely to a car crash just about every time. Especially when a saftey is barreling down on you with a full head of steam. 

I will contend that if you added them all up(receptions) then i would venture a guess of probably 75 to 80% of them would end in a weak tackle or rb running out of bounds.

Anyways... Just my opinion but i dont think the touches are anything to worry about and i think cowboys could have used him more if they wanted to run him into the ground.

If zeke plays out this year and 5th year option plus a franchise tag year he will have earned around 48mil ...LT made 59mil his whole career; bell has made 43mil if you just add is guaranteed $ on current deal(see if it works out and jets dont cut him)

[Vic Mackey 46919]

 

[Junior Miller 1502]

And only Elliott is a top 3 player at his position.  QB and WR aren't even top 10. That, folks, is how you run a franchise into cap hell and end up with a garbage defense comprised of 9 Jeff Heath's, an aging high priced DE, and a high priced LB or CB.  

Edited July 26, 2019 by Junior Miller

[Vic Mackey 46919]

Not a good start to the Giants training camp.

Sterling Shepherd dislocates his thumb yesterday. Today, Corey Coleman tears his ACL. 

[Sgt Hulk 13637]

Supposed to go to cowboy training camp next week. But with no zeke. My son isn’t as enthused.  

[Machinator 32097]

 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

Cooper being top 10 is debatable, but he’s clearly a #1 wr that demands a double team if you want to consistently stop him. He Beats 1 on 1 coverage as good as anyone. Whatever you might think about Dak, he clearly needs a #1. The problem is, it seems like Cooper’s camp knows that we have to sign him. We traded a first rounder, offense changed dramatically when he got there. Hopefully they can get something reasonable for both sides, because then you have Byron Jones and Jaylen Smith coming up. If Jones plays like he did for the first 14 or so games last year, you kinda have to pay him too. Pro bowl corners don’t grow on trees.

[Junior Miller 1502]

1 hour ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Amari Cooper is most certainly Top 10. He might be Top 3 but hasn’t historically been there. And while Dak is outside Top 10 (probably comfortably), as the Cowboys QB, you probably have to pay him. And the next 10 QB deals that get done will exceed his and order will have been restored. 

you've got to be rex Kramer because you're just as fucking stupid on football takes. Top 3? Hahahahahaha what a homerific retard

Julio Jones

Antonio Brown

JuJu

D. Hopkins

OBJ

Tyreke Hill

Michael Thomas

Adam Thielen

Mike Evans

AJ Green

Then there's guys like Diggs, Hilton, Davante Adams, etc. who are on par or arguably better as well. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

I need to see JuJu do it this year without one of the greatest wrs of all time opposite him. He’s super talented, but he might be in for a rude awakening this year when AB isn’t on the other side getting double covered. 

Also, it’s just funny to me how Kirk cousins can have two top flight wrs, and still be someone you can’t count on to beat teams above .500. He’s the ultimate example of fantasy football not translating to real life 

[Drew 2331]

Amari is Top 10, and will prove it this year.  Dak will be paid like a Top 5 QB just because it's his turn. In 2 years his contract will be obsolete and he'll be underpaid in relation to his peers.  It's just what QB's do.

 

Paying Zeke like that is the only head scratcher.  Yes he deserves it, but it's stupid to pay a RB that much. 

 

BTW, the Cowboys will not be in cap hell.  This is a false narrative that keeps getting regurgitated by the talking heads on the TV/Radio and you're buying it hook line and sinker.  The Cowboys will sign everyone they want to, and unless they have some freak injury that ruins someone's career(ala Romo in 2016) they won't have to worry about a ton of Dead Money anymore.

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

Really enjoyed this article:

https://www.bluechipscouting.com/articles/2019/7/20/maximizing-ezekiel-elliotts-second-contract

 

"I hadn’t found a legitimate argument for keeping Elliott. I’d reached out. Asked the people. Engaged in debate. All I got were anecdotal accounts of his importance. The numbers simply don’t bear that out in most cases. Some numbers bode well for Elliott, but they require mining by Twitter folk who either don’t have the time or the drive to find the answers. So, what can make a possible Elliott extension “worth it?”

Running less

This may seem counterintuitive, but less touches on the ground for Elliott, especially on first down, is the correct course of action. According to Sharp Football Stats, in 2018 the Cowboys threw the ball on first down only 46 percent of the time, averaging 7.7 yards per attempt with a success rate of 55 percent. The other piece of the pie accounts for 4.4 yards per carry and a 46 percent success rate on runs. League wide, passing yielded a 53 percent success rate at 7.7 YPA, while rushing was successful 48 percent of the time at 4.5 YPC. I urge every single on of you to visit that site and use the filters to find how the team played in nearly every conceivable situation on offense."

"

TL;DR: How to make a contract “worth it”

1)     Run ball less on 1st down. NEVER run on 2nd and 10 after an incompletion.

a.      Still use Elliott to keep threat of the run alive on 1st-and-10

2)     Use Elliott as a pass catcher on early downs

a.      Use him in tandem with Pollard, finding matchups to exploit as runners and receivers

3)     Run the ball with Elliott in short-yardage situations

a.      Also use him in RPO situations to open up easy completions over the middle

4)     Keep Elliott in pass-protection on 3rd downs

a.      Or actually send him on a downfield route"

[Junior Miller 1502]

24 minutes ago, Drew said:

Amari is Top 10, and will prove it this year.  Dak will be paid like a Top 5 QB just because it's his turn. In 2 years his contract will be obsolete and he'll be underpaid in relation to his peers.  It's just what QB's do.

 

Paying Zeke like that is the only head scratcher.  Yes he deserves it, but it's stupid to pay a RB that much. 

 

BTW, the Cowboys will not be in cap hell.  This is a false narrative that keeps getting regurgitated by the talking heads on the TV/Radio and you're buying it hook line and sinker.  The Cowboys will sign everyone they want to, and unless they have some freak injury that ruins someone's career(ala Romo in 2016) they won't have to worry about a ton of Dead Money anymore.

I don't mean cap hell in terms of dead money, I mean it in terms of having way too much of your cap tied up in offense and barring tremendously accurate drafting several years in a row will be right back to fielding a retard level defense again. 

Watch out for Zeke being a big contract albatross. RBs just dont last and if Zeke manages to play out the contract without significant injury he'll be bucking the odds big time. 

[Trey3216 15325]

12 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

I don't mean cap hell in terms of dead money, I mean it in terms of having way too much of your cap tied up in offense and barring tremendously accurate drafting several years in a row will be right back to fielding a retard level defense again. 

Watch out for Zeke being a big contract albatross. RBs just dont last and if Zeke manages to play out the contract without significant injury he'll be bucking the odds big time. 

Zeke is a healthier Frank Gore/Adrian Peterson.  They've made it quite a while. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

1 hour ago, Drew said:

Amari is Top 10, and will prove it this year.  Dak will be paid like a Top 5 QB just because it's his turn. In 2 years his contract will be obsolete and he'll be underpaid in relation to his peers.  It's just what QB's do.

 

Paying Zeke like that is the only head scratcher.  Yes he deserves it, but it's stupid to pay a RB that much. 

 

BTW, the Cowboys will not be in cap hell.  This is a false narrative that keeps getting regurgitated by the talking heads on the TV/Radio and you're buying it hook line and sinker.  The Cowboys will sign everyone they want to, and unless they have some freak injury that ruins someone's career(ala Romo in 2016) they won't have to worry about a ton of Dead Money anymore.

Lol you say that so matter of factly when you can’t say, for sure, that he’s better than anyone that was listed above. Not one person. He’s in that tier, and he’s great for this team, but c’mon man.    

[Drew 2331]

I'll say he's better than JuJu and Theilen IMO.  And I said he'll prove it this year.  Pretty clear about that.

[futureman 22411]

3 hours ago, Junior Miller said:

you've got to be rex Kramer because you're just as fucking stupid on football takes. Top 3? Hahahahahaha what a homerific retard

Julio Jones

Antonio Brown

JuJu

D. Hopkins

OBJ

Tyreke Hill

Michael Thomas

Adam Thielen

Mike Evans

AJ Green

Then there's guys like Diggs, Hilton, Davante Adams, etc. who are on par or arguably better as well. 

no matter how much misinformed stupid bullshit you spray-fart all over this board, you never cease to amaze me you stupid son of a bitch.  literally fuck your own face. 

[Junior Miller 1502]

2 hours ago, Drew said:

I'll say he's better than JuJu and Theilen IMO.  And I said he'll prove it this year.  Pretty clear about that.

Both of those guys put up seasons last year that Cooper has never come close to touching in his career. 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Junior Miller

[Junior Miller 1502]

1 hour ago, futureman said:

no matter how much misinformed stupid bullshit you spray-fart all over this board, you never cease to amaze me you stupid son of a bitch.  literally fuck your own face. 

Go pull the data and explain how Cooper is better than any of those 10 plus Davante Adams. Go ahead little bitch, prove you aren't just a troll. 

[Junior Miller 1502]

3 hours ago, Trey3216 said:

Zeke is a healthier Frank Gore/Adrian Peterson.  They've made it quite a while. 

You mentioned two of the absolute freaks of nature in the sport over the last couple of decades. Maybe Zeke is that, but the odds are against it. 

[Vic Mackey 46919]

4 hours ago, Drew said:

Amari is Top 10, and will prove it this year.  Dak will be paid like a Top 5 QB just because it's his turn. In 2 years his contract will be obsolete and he'll be underpaid in relation to his peers.  It's just what QB's do.

 

Paying Zeke like that is the only head scratcher.  Yes he deserves it, but it's stupid to pay a RB that much. 

 

BTW, the Cowboys will not be in cap hell.  This is a false narrative that keeps getting regurgitated by the talking heads on the TV/Radio and you're buying it hook line and sinker.  The Cowboys will sign everyone they want to, and unless they have some freak injury that ruins someone's career(ala Romo in 2016) they won't have to worry about a ton of Dead Money anymore.

It might be dumb to pay a RB that money in a vacuum but Dallas used the 4th pick on him just 3 years ago. They created their entire offense around him and this OL. That is their identity. Without that, their plan and offense falls apart and it has nothing to do with Dak's skillset. They designed this offense to be focused on the run from a top talent bell cow. I don't care how good this OL is. We have zero right now behind Zeke and no backup plan. We have seen this offense without a top bell cow. 2015 and 2017. Our offense had the worst stretch in our history on offense for a 3 game stretch when Zeke was suspended. 

If you don't want to pay him, then they need to completely re-design this offense and under Garrett, that isn't happening. Cowboys are going to pay him. Just a matter of when. I think he deserves more than Gurley. Much healthier and he's proven more on the field. The negotiations will start there. That is the floor. We will see how creative they can get with his money but he is going to get what he's worth whether you agree with it or not. Dak will, too. Amari will, too. They will be all in on those 3 and this OL. And frankly, I have no real problem with it. Cooper/Gallup are a very good 1 and 2 going forward. I am much more concerned with our defense than offense going forward.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

If you’re going to put those kind of resources behind the Oline, you can’t pay Zeke. Period. You have to attempt to play the franchise tag game, and/or draft his replacement, even if it’s in the first round. You have to hope Dak is a better player by then. 

Edited July 27, 2019 by youdunnf'dup

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

40 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

 

Say what you want about the jones family, but Stephen Jones isn’t stupid. If nothing else, he doesn’t have the same kind of “I need to prove I can do this myself” pride that Jerry has. He listens to the smart people in this organization. It’s refreshing 

[futureman 22411]

59 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

Go pull the data and explain how Cooper is better than any of those 10 plus Davante Adams. Go ahead little bitch, prove you aren't just a troll. 

god in heaven you’re an idiot.  

[Trey3216 15325]

57 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

You mentioned two of the absolute freaks of nature in the sport over the last couple of decades. Maybe Zeke is that, but the odds are against it. 

There’s not a debate about it, Zeke is one of those.  

[Junior Miller 1502]

55 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

There’s not a debate about it, Zeke is one of those.  

No possible way to know until he does it. NFL history is paved with players who looked great for a few seasons then broke down. The 10+ yr elite running back is the minority

[Junior Miller 1502]

58 minutes ago, futureman said:

god in heaven you’re an idiot.  

Come on little bitch. Tell me how he's better than those 11 WR. Explain it. Don't be a hollow worded pussy. Show something, cunt. 

[futureman 22411]

26 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

Come on little bitch. Tell me how he's better than those 11 WR. Explain it. Don't be a hollow worded pussy. Show something, cunt. 

he’s absolutely better.  have you watched football before?

[Bullneck 18976]

52 minutes ago, futureman said:

he’s absolutely better.  have you watched football before?

2 hours ago, futureman said:

god in heaven you’re an idiot.  

Take your meds.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Bullneck

[futureman 22411]

6 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

Take your meds.

you got any?

[Junior Miller 1502]

1 hour ago, futureman said:

he’s absolutely better.  have you watched football before?

Damn, I was hoping you or fake rex kramer would actually  bring something because it would be hilarious to see one of you twats try. You need to put at least some effort into your trolling. It's one trick and slacking

[Trey3216 15325]

2 hours ago, Junior Miller said:

No possible way to know until he does it. NFL history is paved with players who looked great for a few seasons then broke down. The 10+ yr elite running back is the minority

I’ve watched all of those play.  I’m pretty sure I know what I see.  You can keep cheering from the nacho stand 

[Genco 3038]

2 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

I’ve watched all of those play.  I’m pretty sure I know what I see.  You can keep cheering from the nacho stand 

Where do you cheer from coach?

[Trey3216 15325]

18 minutes ago, Genco said:

Where do you cheer from coach?

Not from the purview of people who have to watch 13 years of something to know they’ll get 13 years of something.   

[Trey3216 15325]

18 minutes ago, Genco said:

Where do you cheer from coach?

Not from the purview of people who have to watch 13 years of something to know they’ll get 13 years of something.   

[futureman 22411]

9 hours ago, Junior Miller said:

Damn, I was hoping you or fake rex kramer would actually  bring something because it would be hilarious to see one of you twats try. You need to put at least some effort into your trolling. It's one trick and slacking

I can’t figure out if you’re sad or amusing. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

The NFL is suspending Golden Tate 4 games for PEDs. He’s going to appeal (and apparently he thinks he has a decent case), but if he’s actually suspended when they play us, who the fuck do they even have to play WR lol? Shepherd might be out. Corey Coleman tore his ACL. Rough offseason for giants wrs 

Edited July 27, 2019 by youdunnf'dup

[cactusflinthead 27593]

2 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

You’re amusing. He’s pathetic. 

Your shenanigans are cheeky and fun. His shenanigans are cruel and tragic. 

And you're Rex but nobody cares anymore. 

[Vic Mackey 46919]

37 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

The NFL is suspending Golden Tate 4 games for PEDs. He’s going to appeal (and apparently he thinks he has a decent case), but if he’s actually suspended when they play us, who the fuck do they even have to play WR lol? Shepherd might be out. Corey Coleman tore his ACL. Rough offseason for giants wrs 

I remember the Giants were in this same position a few years ago. They were depleted on offense. OBJ was hurt and I think their next 2 or 3 WRs. And this was 2017 so no Barkley at RB. They went into Denver and dominated them. This was when Denver was seen as legit (they just smashed us a few weeks prior). I fully expect them to give us a tough game just because.