Dallas Cowboys 2019 Offseason Thread of Mediocrity

[DougO 5239]

That backup QB list is really sad. Not a lot of separation there.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

Imagine how fucking sad it is to be at the bottom of that list.  Almost like you don't belong in the league at all, which Mike White is definitely making the case for.

 

[Horn80 6074]

4 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

The narrative that the cowboys are going to use to try to spin this is that he went 3-4. But all his attempts were fucking chip shots, including the miss. They’re going to try to spin it and say last year he made 15 in a row or some shit, but he made 80% of his kicks, which puts him somewhere around 25th in the league for kickers. And most of his misses are from 45 and in. For a team that plays in so many close games every year, shit is unacceptable. I’d almost appreciate it if they just came out and said “look, alright. He’s the cheapest kicker in the league and he isn’t the worst statistically. We have to cut cost, and we can’t pay some of these other FA kickers”. They’d never do that cause it would wreck his confidence, but that has to be what’s going on. Matt Bryant missed one fg last year. One. He’s sitting on his couch right now waiting to help a team.

Yep, they will find a way to keep him unless it becomes painfully apparent from too many misses during preseason.  It’s a corner they will try and cut and cost them bad is my bet.  Thought Cowboys learned this lesson before but nope.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

2 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Why does it come down to money?  We have the cheapest starting QB in the league.  The most important positional group in the sport, we spend the least on.  It's a very different model than when we had Tony eating up 15-18% of the cap, then it may make some sense to go with a more cost effective option behind him.  But Dak makes peanuts and we have two developmental dopes behind him and we're praying he doesn't have an injury.  It's simply bad planning.  We had Weeden behind Romo because he was cheap, but he sucked.  We had Moore behind him because he was the teacher's pet.  We wasted more assets after Tony went down to trade for Cassel, who was somehow shittier than Weeden. 

If Dak went down, we'd be doing the same song and dance again and this is the last year in which Dak will be cheap so it's even more of a risk.  But if he went down, we'd do the same dumb bullshit again.  Roll with Cooper as he goes 0-2 and then trade for some has been like Paxton Lynch and piss away the season because they wouldn't go out and spend 1.2 million more on someone like Tranny or Barkley, or a little 2 million more for a Colt.  It appears we didn't learn any lessons when Tony went down except to hope the next QB was a bit more stout.  And it's not about the backup QB being really good, it's about them being competent, which is not something Cooper Rush looked like last season.  He was a little better last night so have to hope he improves after taking steps back last year.

Backup QB groupings (Cooper is the bottom group):

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/5/28/18628195/nfl-backup-quarterbacks-ranking-2019

I agree with you for the most part on the backup situation, but it’s way too late to address the issue at this point (unless there’s someone out there that I haven’t thought about). I’m a lot more concerned about kicker. Dak has never missed a game. He’s never even missed a snap. We’re playing with fire in that regard, but it wouldn’t surprise anyone if he played all 16 games and didn’t miss a snap, like he has for his entire career up until this point. Kicker is going to actually cost us games, and there are viable options out there. Maher made some big kicks last year, but the position is so fucking fickle that there’s no way anyone on that team can trust him like you should be able to trust your kicker.

Edited August 11, 2019 by youdunnf'dup

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

2 hours ago, totallynotabuttpirate said:

I think someone should call in a welfare check on Futureman. 

I mean, I’m sure he has excuses galore for why he looked like he shouldn’t be in the league.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

 

 

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

42 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I agree with you for the most part on the backup situation, but it’s way too late to address the issue at this point (unless there’s someone out there that I haven’t thought about). I’m a lot more concerned about kicker. Dak has never missed a game. He’s never even missed a snap. We’re playing with fire in that regard, but it wouldn’t surprise anyone if he played all 16 games and didn’t miss a snap, like he has for his entire career up until this point. Kicker is going to actually cost us games, and there are viable options out there. Maher made some big kicks last year, but the position is so fucking fickle that there’s no way anyone on that team can trust him like you should be able to trust your kicker.

Kaepernick but I don't see that happening in this lifetime with Jerrah at the helm, plus he hasn't played in a long time.  I have a lot of concerns about both our ST specialists.  We've done a good job with kickers throughout the years, as a whole, but Maher doesn't inspire much confidence.  Jones has never had a strong leg, but his strengths were supposedly directional kicking and getting kicks and FCs inside the 20, neither of which bear out in last year's stats.  He may simply be long in the tooth.  These are two positions where I feel we need an upgrade and are playing with some fire. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

Just now, Patrick Bateman said:

Kaepernick but I don't see that happening in this lifetime with Jerrah at the helm, plus he hasn't played in a long time.  I have a lot of concerns about both our ST specialists.  We've done a good job with kickers throughout the years, as a whole, but Maher doesn't inspire much confidence.  Jones has never had a strong leg, but his strengths were supposedly directional kicking and getting kicks and FCs inside the 20, neither of which bear out in last year's stats.  He may simply be long in the tooth.  These are two positions where I feel we need an upgrade and are playing with some fire. 

I don’t know if that’s a Jerry thing as much as it’s just the league in general black balling him/wanting to not create a national news story about their backup qb. He might as well not even exist in this discussion, or else he’d be in the league right now.

[Bone3421 716]

So no futureman yet today....always said we would be apologizing to him but cant come and defend his boy?

[C-Man 26991]

8 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

The narrative that the cowboys are going to use to try to spin this is that he went 3-4. But all his attempts were fucking chip shots, including the miss. They’re going to try to spin it and say last year he made 15 in a row or some shit, but he made 80% of his kicks, which puts him somewhere around 25th in the league for kickers. And most of his misses are from 45 and in. For a team that plays in so many close games every year, shit is unacceptable. I’d almost appreciate it if they just came out and said “look, alright. He’s the cheapest kicker in the league and he isn’t the worst statistically. We have to cut cost, and we can’t pay some of these other FA kickers”. They’d never do that cause it would wreck his confidence, but that has to be what’s going on. Matt Bryant missed one fg last year. One. He’s sitting on his couch right now waiting to help a team.

Thought I heard somebody on The Ticket the other day from camp that seemed to indicate the Cowboys were concerned about PK. Is there nobody else in camp?

[conVINCEd 21468]

34 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Thought I heard somebody on The Ticket the other day from camp that seemed to indicate the Cowboys were concerned about PK. Is there nobody else in camp?

Phil will eventually be the answer.

Edited August 12, 2019 by conVINCEd

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

37 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Thought I heard somebody on The Ticket the other day from camp that seemed to indicate the Cowboys were concerned about PK. Is there nobody else in camp?

They don’t have any competition in camp right now. It’s pretty obvious they want him to win the job. It’s going to take him imploding this preseason to lose the job. I would be willing to bet that he takes every fg this preseason, because they like him. They made a gutsy decision last year keeping Maher over Bailey, and it was the right decision. Maher our performed Bailey. But there are better kickers out there, and we’re in win now mode. Give the team the best chance to win and get a reliable kicker in here 

[Vic Mackey 46919]

No idea how accurate this is

 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

41 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

No idea how accurate this is

 

It makes sense. If he got a top 5 offer, Matt Ryan is currently 5th at qb contracts at 30mil a year. He really is kinda dumb for not taking that offer IMO. That’s a good offer for him.

[Junior Miller 1502]

I guarantee Dak isn't looking at it as what he's worth as a QB going forward, he's looking at it as he also needs extra compensation for the last 3 years of being dirt cheap and way underpaid. Because truthfully he's not a top 10 QB he's barely top 15 so 30 million a year is already way over paying for him, but he won't see it that way.

Edited August 12, 2019 by Junior Miller

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

8 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

I guarantee Dak isn't looking at it as what he's worth as a QB going forward, he's looking at it as he also needs extra compensation for the last 3 years of being dirt cheap and way underpaid. Because truthfully he's not a top 10 QB he's barely top 15 so 30 million a year is already way over paying for him, but he won't see it that way.

What he’s looking at is the fact that Wentz is getting 32 mil a year and he feels like he’s proven more than wentz. That’s debatable. Wentz looked like an MVP during his 2nd year, but Dak has the 2nd most wins of any qb in the league over the last 3 years (behind Brady) and he has a playoff win, 2 division titles, etc. IMO, 30mil a year would’ve gotten it done before wentz signed. But I could be wrong. 

[Vic Mackey 46919]

1 hour ago, Junior Miller said:

I guarantee Dak isn't looking at it as what he's worth as a QB going forward, he's looking at it as he also needs extra compensation for the last 3 years of being dirt cheap and way underpaid. Because truthfully he's not a top 10 QB he's barely top 15 so 30 million a year is already way over paying for him, but he won't see it that way.

He's did everything and more than Wentz has and he got $32mill a year. Wentz has not even taken a playoff snap yet and his only full season he has played, the team finished in last place. 

[TornACL 7673]

11 hours ago, Bone3421 said:

So no futureman yet today....always said we would be apologizing to him but cant come and defend his boy?

Guess he shrinks in the moment just like Mike White. It's a real shame. 

[LurkingHorn 1044]

If that article is true, Dak is going to look really petty if he gets hurt. Of course I'm biased because I don't think he's worth $30 million anyway. That being said, I have no problem with the Cowboys playing hardball with him and Zeke. We're talking about an offense that finished 22nd in PPG last season and paying all these guys like they accomplished something great. 

['stache 21743]

Yeah I would not go over 30 mil for Dak. We all can criticize Jerruh but he’s not as stupid as Philly. Don’t let that overrated putz Wentz affect your decision Dak.

[totallynotabuttpirate 5341]

I wonder if they take a hard line at 30 mil and then let him get to free agency next year. That would be a pretty smart move. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

Wentz’s situation is different. His is an extension since he still has a 5th year option. Averaged out over the life of the contract, it’s more like 28mil a year. But try telling that to Dak and his agent. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

1 minute ago, totallynotabuttpirate said:

I wonder if they take a hard line at 30 mil and then let him get to free agency next year. That would be a pretty smart move. 

I’m sure they’d franchise him before they just let him walk. 

[totallynotabuttpirate 5341]

1 minute ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I’m sure they’d franchise him before they just let him walk. 

I think he genuinely wants to be here. Letting him hit FA will and seeing what offers he gets will set his contract numbers. I just don't see any team offering him a crazy contract.  

Of course there's significant risk involved with that approach. Probably too much, considering he's the only legitimate option outside of Mike White. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

This is the NFL. Im not sure discussing the per year value of a contract is a worthwhile endeavor. The only thing important to Dak is the guaranteed money and like the article surmised that figure is probably coming up woefully short of what he wants.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

Yeah I’m sure Dak does want as much guaranteed money as a guy who won a fucking MVP and made it to a super bowl. Dak is not Matt Ryan. He’s just not. If you want to argue Wentz (even though IMO he’s better than Dak when healthy), fine. There is no argument for Matt Ryan.

Edited August 12, 2019 by youdunnf'dup

['stache 21743]

Then give him more guaranteed, fine. But he's not Matt Ryan and his agent knows that.

[tokamak 6350]

22 minutes ago, totallynotabuttpirate said:

I think he genuinely wants to be here. Letting him hit FA will and seeing what offers he gets will set his contract numbers. I just don't see any team offering him a crazy contract.  

Of course there's significant risk involved with that approach. Probably too much, considering he's the only legitimate option outside of Mike White. 

It only takes 1 team out of 32 to go crazy. I think we'd all be surprised by what he'd get if he hit the open market. QB is just so, so important.

Of course, it's not gonna happen under any circumstance, so it's pointless to talk about.

[Dr Fear 1265]

 

[Surly Bevo 24692]

Cowboys don’t need to do shit with Dak or Zeke at the moment. The Zeke thing being well hashed out and as far as Dak let’s let him roll Zekeless again for at least a few weeks and if it isn’t any better than 2017 fuck him and his agent and whatever they are asking for.

[Vic Mackey 46919]

9 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

Cowboys don’t need to do shit with Dak or Zeke at the moment. The Zeke thing being well hashed out and as far as Dak let’s let him roll Zekeless again for at least a few weeks and if it isn’t any better than 2017 fuck him and his agent and whatever they are asking for.

This is so fucking flawed it isn't even funny. This offense was created solely for a bell cow RB and OL. No shit Dak isn't going to succeed without Zeke. It isn't possible with the offense they created. This offense is not anywhere near catered to Dak's strengths. Taking away easily the most important player on the team, it's obvious we will struggle.

Dallas is trying to win with an outdated 90s offense that relies on the run game. The league is set up to where passing is as easy as its ever been and actually makes sense to rely on that more than the pass but we refuse (due to Garrett). 

Dak is running the same stale offense that has been here for Romo since 2007. 

 

[LurkingHorn 1044]

32 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

This is so fucking flawed it isn't even funny. This offense was created solely for a bell cow RB and OL. No shit Dak isn't going to succeed without Zeke. It isn't possible with the offense they created. This offense is not anywhere near catered to Dak's strengths. Taking away easily the most important player on the team, it's obvious we will struggle.

Dallas is trying to win with an outdated 90s offense that relies on the run game. The league is set up to where passing is as easy as its ever been and actually makes sense to rely on that more than the pass but we refuse (due to Garrett). 

Dak is running the same stale offense that has been here for Romo since 2007. 

 

Then why pay Dak like he's Matt Ryan? If, like you say, Zeke is the most important person on the team then it stands to reason we should be more willing to pay him instead of overpaying Dak. 

My guess is Zeke will come around and sign, but I think Dak is going to finish out this contract and both sides will evaluate from there. I think the Cowboys are in a pretty good position here. If they go 9-7 or worse and Dak has an average year,  you fire Garrett and have the next guy come in and decide if Dak is his guy. If that scenario happens then Dak is going to have zero leverage because we will tag him or sign him to a deal that's probably similar to the one we're offering him now. 

If you have a great year then Dak will have proven he's worth the monstrous contract and you feel a little better about paying him--even if the prices goes up some. 

 

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

2 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

This is the NFL. Im not sure discussing the per year value of a contract is a worthwhile endeavor. The only thing important to Dak is the guaranteed money and like the article surmised that figure is probably coming up woefully short of what he wants.

This is correct.  Players/agents look at the two numbers.  The total value but also more importantly, the guaranteed amount.  For all we know, it's a 4 year extensions with the last two years being worth 40 million per but not guaranteed.  That 30m contract was leaked by the front office and IMO, it's bad business.  It makes Dak's camp defensive and hardens their stance to be called out in public.  Just do your business and do it quietly.

 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

Yeah, I don’t understand that argument. The offense is the offense. That’s the offense he plays in. That’s the situation he’s playing in. That’s the situation he’s always played in. We’ll see if that changes at all under Moore, but you can’t use that as an excuse for why he won’t play well this year. That same offense has helped Dak succeed as a 4th round pick, helped him have the 2nd most wins in the league over the last 3 years, and so on. Dak has limitations. He has room to improve. But you can’t just pay him like he’s Matt Ryan. The eagles had the luxury of extending Wentz after he was getting #2 overall pick money. We aren’t in a position to do that.

 

That was in reference to Vic’s argument 

Edited August 12, 2019 by youdunnf'dup

[Gene Parmesan 3992]

There is really no correct answer with Dak.  Waiting just increases the price and doing a deal early just locks you into a limited QB.  You guys really think the market is going to crash for Dak because they go 9-7 next year? 

[hookem48 4631]

1 hour ago, LurkingHorn said:

Then why pay Dak like he's Matt Ryan? If, like you say, Zeke is the most important person on the team then it stands to reason we should be more willing to pay him instead of overpaying Dak. 

My guess is Zeke will come around and sign, but I think Dak is going to finish out this and see Jones family dies and  contract and both sides will evaluate from there. I think the Cowboys are in a pretty good position here. If they go 9-7 or worse and Dak has an average year,  you fire Garrett and have the next guy come in and decide if Dak is his guy. If that scenario happens then Dak is going to have zero leverage because we will tag him or sign him to a deal that's probably similar to the one we're offering him now. 

If you have a great year then Dak will have proven he's worth the monstrous contract and you feel a little better about paying him--even if the prices goes up some. 

 

Unless all the Jones family dies no one is coming in and deciding anything.

[Bone3421 716]

To the waiting it out on Dak....which team would pay him if he hit FA

 

Denver would be only real competition i think and thats if they dont like Flacco or Lock next year. I feel they think they have a window but i honestly feel the window is shut

 

Tennessee is other option but Mariota has played ok when healthy. This year will be telling.

 

Oakland would be longshot....

 

Cant see any other teams giving up on current guy or young guy they just got for signing Dak 30-40m

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

1 hour ago, Bone3421 said:

To the waiting it out on Dak....which team would pay him if he hit FA

 

Denver would be only real competition i think and thats if they dont like Flacco or Lock next year. I feel they think they have a window but i honestly feel the window is shut

 

Tennessee is other option but Mariota has played ok when healthy. This year will be telling.

 

Oakland would be longshot....

 

Cant see any other teams giving up on current guy or young guy they just got for signing Dak 30-40m

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Miami, Cincinnati, maybe a team like San Diego if Rivers (38 by end of season) crashes hard or New Orleans if Brees (41 end of season) does the same .  Maybe the Giants if they don't like what they see from Jones or Tampa if Winston doesn't put up this year..  It's hard to know because front offices may be turning over but at least half of dozen teams or more are possible.  I'd imagine the Jones' would slap a tag on him, even if just transitional.

 

[Nicole44 22023]

Lol. He wants $40 million a year?

 

Okeedokee! 

 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

Beat me to it.

hahaha franchise tag this fool until you can’t anymore, and move on unless he proves he’s worth that. That is just hilarious 

Edited August 12, 2019 by youdunnf'dup

[Underdog 28437]

Hell, i want $40 million a year...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and to bang Ms. Jane Slater. 

[Radical Larry 28523]

He’s not getting $40 million a year and he knows it. They’ll settle somewhere in between.

[Machinator 32097]

Lol

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

Bro, you’re sponsored by dannon yogurt and chunky soup. You don’t get those sponsors unless you’re qb of the Dallas Cowboys. Fuck outta here. Dumbest shit I’ve heard in a long time. I don’t care if it is just posturing. 

[LurkingHorn 1044]

6 minutes ago, Radical Larry said:

He’s not getting $40 million a year and he knows it. They’ll settle somewhere in between.

Let's say you're right. Do you feel good about Dak at $35 million per year?

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

4 minutes ago, LurkingHorn said:

Let's say you're right. Do you feel good about Dak at $35 million per year?

Anything over 32mil a year is ridiculous, and even that is pushing it. 30mil is a great contract for him

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

Feel like this is blowback from leaking about the 30 million dollar offer.  Agent says, fuck that, we'll tell them we want 40 million.  Part of the game.  And no, I would not give Dak anymore close to a 40 million dollar AAV contract.  I would really have a hard time giving him 30/32 million guaranteed in AAV.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

5 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Feel like this is blowback from leaking about the 30 million dollar offer.  Agent says, fuck that, we'll tell them we want 40 million.  Part of the game.  And no, I would not give Dak anymore close to a 40 million dollar AAV contract.  I would really have a hard time giving him 30/32 million guaranteed in AAV.

I took that as the cowboys camp leaked that just to show everyone why these negotiations aren’t going anywhere. This is laughable from all angles. Not sure why his agent would want to go public with that 

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Did Stephen Jones start laughing?

I wouldn't give him more than what Wentz got and even that is pushing it

['stache 21743]

$30 mil is fair. If it takes $32 to get it done, fine. But he ain't getting $40. Might as well hold out for a trade.