Fyre Fraud

[Knoxtnhorn 6066]

Reading the thread on Fyre on TOS was fantastic.  I knew Netflix was coming out with a doc soon.  When I came across Hulu's Fyre Festival, I assumed it was the same doc and that Hulu had just released it earlier; however, they're entirely different documentaries.  (The Netflix version is "Fyre".)  Anyway, I'm watching the Hulu version and it's absolutely fascinating.  Most of the stuff I/we read on TOS was in real time as the festival was crashing and burning.  Thus far into Fyre Festival, the content has been the lead-up.  Amazingly, this thing was a much, MUCH bigger disaster before anyone got to the island.  I'm perplexed that - in a time when social media can dominate a story and give info in real time - nobody seemed to catch onto this thing until it actually started.  I thought the guy just over-promised and under-delivered and things spun out of control.  I didn't realize that he was engaging in full fledged fraud, tampering (documents), etc...

Edited January 15, 2019 by Knoxtnhorn

[Parliament 14333]

I'm perplexed that - in a time when social media can dominate a story and give info in real time - nobody seemed to catch onto this thing until it actually started. 

New flash: People are stupid

[Bama Chick 28596]

I just finished it and holy shit.

That McFarland guy is not only a certain conman but a legitimate sociopath.

And Ja Rule is a complete and utter moron.

I won’t comment on anything else since it just came out today and I don’t want to spoil the fun for those of y’all who haven’t watched yet but I can’t wait for more of y’all to see it to discuss it.

Crazy shit yo.

[Zepol87 9192]

Hell yea thanks for the heads up

[Not a cat 5711]

10 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

I just finished it and holy shit.

That McFarland guy is not only a certain conman but a legitimate sociopath.

And Ja Rule is a complete and utter moron.

I won’t comment on anything else since it just came out today and I don’t want to spoil the fun for those of y’all who haven’t watched yet but I can’t wait for more of y’all to see it to discuss it.

Crazy shit yo.

Yeah, what Bamachick said.  

I'm sure it's because I'm an old fart gen Xer, but I just don't get all this influencer stuff.  

Also, it noted that the netflix documentary is being produced by the guys from Jerry Media who were heavily involved in the shitshow that was Fyre so it will be interesting to see their spin.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Yeah the Instagram Influencer culture is nuts.

Fucking Kendall Jenner gets $250,000 for ONE Instagram post.

ONE

And one of the marketing people in the documentary said that was a bargain compared to traditional media. That her followers are are such a large specific audience and that a traditional commercial would cost way more and never achieve the kind of precise audience targeting they get with one of her posts.

The JennerDashians are everything wrong with America but those bitches are some marketing and PR geniuses.

[Knoxtnhorn 6066]

I barely give a shit about what my own family members say.  I truly do not understand why a social media post by Kendall Jenner can be important to anyone's personal life.

[BurdineBandit 815]

16 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

That McFarland guy is not only a certain conman but a legitimate sociopath.

And Ja Rule is a complete and utter moron.
 

I couldn't help but laugh at every clip they showed of McFarland and Ja Rule together getting interviewed. They ask Ja Rule anything about the festival and he just smiles and says some random general shit ("it's revolutionary" type shit) and hoped the CEO would take over.

Won't spoil it yet but the last 15 minutes made me just as happy as when it was happening in real-time on twitter. Rich kids spending silly money to feed their egos and got Kraft Single sandwiches (not even cheddar)? Show me more, please.

[satyanash 14636]

19 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

That McFarland guy is not only a certain conman but a legitimate sociopath.

Apparently Hulu paid him a good sum of money to interview him for the documentary, which kinda calls their earnestness of their documentary into question...

[AUS-97HORN 11824]

1 hour ago, satyanash said:

Apparently Hulu paid him a good sum of money to interview him for the documentary, which kinda calls their earnestness of their documentary into question...

I read an article on both the "documentaries" and it pointed out that the Netflix version tried to interview McFarland and he demanded $2M to do the interview- they passed.

did Hulu really pay $2M to a fucking convicted fraud artist to get his side of the story? that news would interest me if true

[Buzzrock 14945]

I thought there were laws against profiting off of criminal activity. Maybe it doesn’t apply here.

[satyanash 14636]

55 minutes ago, AUS-97HORN said:

I read an article on both the "documentaries" and it pointed out that the Netflix version tried to interview McFarland and he demanded $2M to do the interview- they passed.

did Hulu really pay $2M to a fucking convicted fraud artist to get his side of the story? that news would interest me if true

Yeah, any criticisms they have of McFarland kind of ring hollow if that's the case...

[Bama Chick 28596]

And he didn’t say jack shit when they questioned him either!

He either repeated all his bullshittery that he’s been spewing all along or said he couldn’t comment.

And then when they apparently presented him with his lies when he challenged them to “Show me where I’ve lied!”, the motherfucker got up and left!

And they paid him for that????

Jeez, I’m even more glad his conman ass is in the clink.

[Buzzrock 14945]

Looks like $250K, not $2M. Still.

https://themuse.jezebel.com/billy-mcfarland-was-paid-an-undisclosed-amount-to-appea-1831765055

[Knoxtnhorn 6066]

He's got to keep the Russian/Ukranian hottie on a leash somehow.  He was obviously getting paid because there was a part where he got a question he absolutely didn't want to answer but he couldn't just get up and leave.

Finished the end with my wife.  Kind of disappointed that there wasn't more footage of the actual event and subsequent disaster.  IIRC, it got far from comical after the 1st day (what was shown in the doc re: those leaving on the plane).  I also thought it was kind of b.s. for all the hanger's on to throw him under the bus know full well they were also complicit.  Of course, they're probably not in the business of admitting fault with all the lawsuits going on.

[Buzzrock 14945]

I wonder what the history books will say about social media. If we survive it.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19146]

The Hulu doc is HILARIOUS. Holy shit at the influencers. Billy McFarland is so not self aware.

[Neonmoon 38130]

I’m so happy I’m too old for this social media generation shit. Influencers.The whole Kardashian’s family. Selfies every second. It’s just exhausting to even read about. I couldn’t imagine being in that world. 

 

[RPM 26358]

Haven't seen the Hulu doc, but the Netflix one was excellent. For the record, I would not take one for the team.

[3adays 454]

I was surprised to see the connection between Chesapeake Energy’s Aubrey McClendon and McFarland. I guess these conns just flock to each other. 

[Patrick Bateman 3933]

Watched the Hulu version with the Millennial girlfriend.   I found it hilarious although I think frauds like Billy McFarland or Jordan Belfort (WoWS) who cajole, lie, cheat, and steal their way to unearned riches deserve much harsher sentences.  These people destroy other people's lives, futures, and families with no thought of their impact.  6 years is bullshit, he should have gotten 30 years in "pound me in the ass" prison, as should have Belfort.  I also don't get the "Influencer" status.  These are vapid people who others use as some sort of authority on subject matters?  Why?  And how these people aren't liable sort of blows my mind.  I'm going to tell all of these people who subscribe to me to go fly a kite in a lightning storm because I get paid to do so without understanding or caring about the risks, and I have no liability?  There's not a ton of accountability in the entire set up.  I felt bad for the staff on the app side and the staff on the island, other than that.... it was hilarious seeing foolish people (many with money none of them earned) get taken to the money woodshed.... Thoroughly amused.  And how did Ja Rule not get in any trouble.  Fuck that guy.  Carnival Barkers....

 

Edited January 22, 2019 by Patrick Bateman

[Art Vandelay 1712]

1 hour ago, RPM said:

Haven't seen the Hulu doc, but the Netflix one was excellent. For the record, I would not take one for the team.

I watched the Netflix doc first then the Hulu doc. Both were good but I thought Netflix was better overall and went into more detail on how it all unfolded. Hulu went more in-depth on millennials and social media culture, influencers, etc. If you're only going to watch one, I recommend the Netflix doc.

[Patrick Bateman 3933]

1 hour ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Watched the Hulu version with the Millennial girlfriend.   I found it hilarious although I think frauds like Billy McFarland or Jordan Belfort (WoWS) who cajole, lie, cheat, and steal their way to unearned riches deserve much harsher sentences.  These people destroy other people's lives, futures, and families with no thought of their impact.  6 years is bullshit, he should have gotten 30 years in "pound me in the ass" prison, as should have Belfort.  I also don't get the "Influencer" status.  These are vapid people who others use as some sort of authority on subject matters?  Why?  And how these people aren't liable sort of blows my mind.  I'm going to tell all of these people who subscribe to me to go fly a kite in a lightning storm because I get paid to do so without understanding or caring about the risks, and I have no liability?  There's not a ton of accountability in the entire set up.  I felt bad for the staff on the app side and the staff on the island, other than that.... it was hilarious seeing foolish people (many with money none of them earned) get taken to the money woodshed.... Thoroughly amused.  And how did Ja Rule not get in any trouble.  Fuck that guy.  Carnival Barkers....

 

BTW, I should say I watched the Netflix version.....

I'm surprised anyone would still use gofundme, but maybe some justice?  Maybe.... What about the day workers now?

 

[RPM 26358]

I'd like to see the locals paid what they're owed. It wasn't their fault.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8822]

If you're an investor and billy pitches you an idea about a music festival taking place on an island with barely any plumbing and electricity without the infrastructure to host 100 guests at a time none the less 10,000...wouldn't you want to know a little more before you give him hundreds of thousands/ millions? How the hell did they buy the island so fast anyways? I thought it took upwards to a year if you have the finances

 

I mean for stupid. Some of that has to fall back on deaf ears. Billy still got off wayyyy too easy with 6 and no doubt he'll be back to slinging shit but using that Frank guy as his mouthpiece.

 

 

 

[Buzzrock 14945]

They didn’t buy an island, they ended up going with a site next to an established resort.

Social media is still a pretty new phenomenon and we still don’t know the long term effects of giving every blithering idiot from the president to a pre-teen girl the same ability to reach billions of people. I think in many cases we’ll look and see how damaging it was. Kendall Jenner makes $1M per Instagram post. Why?

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19146]

They didn’t buy an island, they ended up going with a site next to an established resort.

Social media is still a pretty new phenomenon and we still don’t know the long term effects of giving every blithering idiot from the president to a pre-teen girl the same ability to reach billions of people. I think in many cases we’ll look and see how damaging it was. Kendall Jenner makes $1M per Instagram post. Why?

Because people are sheep.

[Quagmire 2147]

I’m curious in the Netflix one , who was filming that shit at the end when they already were on bail? Why would you allow someone to film the illegal shit you are doing.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8822]

I’m curious in the Netflix one , who was filming that shit at the end when they already were on bail? Why would you allow someone to film the illegal shit you are doing.

Because netflix probably paid them and they desperately needed money? Haha

[troph 24912]

Because netflix probably paid them and they desperately needed money? Haha

 

How’d ya think he paid for that penthouse when out on bail yo?

 

I watched the Netflix one last night - honestly was leaving open the possibility he is a green, myopic, delusional idiot. Then I saw the NYC VIP shit ... on camera. Straight up sociopathic crook. Wow.

[wild_turkey 3182]

1 hour ago, Quagmire said:

I’m curious in the Netflix one , who was filming that shit at the end when they already were on bail? Why would you allow someone to film the illegal shit you are doing.

I was curious why that was on camera as well. Then Billy himself said something to the effect of "If I've one learned thing in this, it's good to always be shooting footage." I'm not sure what his intent was, but he seems to think it's a good idea to record his criminal activity.

[sidis 9832]

On 1/15/2019 at 1:15 PM, Knoxtnhorn said:

I barely give a shit about what my own family members say.  I truly do not understand why a social media post by Kendall Jenner can be important to anyone's personal life. 

 

[Goredho 17421]

Spoilers below, so skip this post if you don't want to see them.

I watched the Netflix doc last night.  I don't feel that bad for the investors and employees.  I mean, this is not an atypical startup story.   Every startup is some borderline sociopath founder's "vision" that does not exist, investors giving them money to make that vision a reality and a push by some talented people in the trenches to try to deliver it.  Most of these endeavors wind up not being worth everyone's money or energy.  At any time any one of the people above or below Billy could have said, "Fuck this shit, I'm out" and they didn't.  The investors basically just took his word about revenue, didn't do any due diligence to validate his claims or determine if he had people capable of pulling off a large-scale music festival.  And had the event not been a complete and utter fiasco, they would be singing Billy's praises all the way to the bank without a second thought about who might have gotten hurt in the process.  So I don't really feel sorry for them one bit, even though I think Billy is definitely a liar and a crook devoid of conscience.  I think the documentary missed a narrative here about the dark-side of start-up entrepreneurship that the Fyre Festival is a good example of.

Ja Rule seems to have gotten off light.  The documentary had him right there with Billy through a lot of the lead up, then he disappeared for the disaster, then he's on the company call trying to spin what happened.  WTF was Ja Rule doing during that time?  Why isn't he being held accountable to a fraction of the degree that Billy is?

There is undeniable schadenfreude in watching a bunch of urban 6-figure salaried, 20-something festival-goers walking around a post-Katrina Nawlins setting with their selfie-sticks while muttering "Oh. Em. Gee." over and over.  But there was another angle here lightly touched on but largely missed:  The social experiment of taking these young, relatively wealthy hipsters out of their first-world+++ environment and throwing them in a 3rd world setting and how they reacted to that.  The only thing approaching this was the one guy talking about how his group destroyed the tents around them with one of his buddies pissing on the beds.

I am 99% sure that dude actually did blow the Bahamian official to get the water.  NTTTIAWWT.

The locals got the shaft big time.  The only moment I really felt sorry for anyone in the whole ordeal was when the Bahamian lady was talking about how she had to pay workers $50,000 out of her savings for their wages.

 

[RPM 26358]

1 hour ago, Goredho said:

The only thing approaching this was the one guy talking about how his group destroyed the tents around them with one of his buddies pissing on the beds.

That was the epitome of FUPM. Destroying tents and mattresses so you can have a no neighbor zone. Those asshole should have had to swim back to the US.

[cabowabo 4514]

Who the fuck would pay any money to see Blink 182 anyway?

[wild_turkey 3182]

9 minutes ago, cabowabo said:

Who the fuck would pay any money to see Blink 182 anyway?

The teenage version of myself paid to see them in 2001. I remember the restrooms and food being fine at the amphitheater.

[Hugh G. Rection 156]

2 hours ago, Goredho said:

Spoilers below, so skip this post if you don't want to see them.

I watched the Netflix doc last night.  I don't feel that bad for the investors and employees.  I mean, this is not an atypical startup story.   Every startup is some borderline sociopath founder's "vision" that does not exist, investors giving them money to make that vision a reality and a push by some talented people in the trenches to try to deliver it.  Most of these endeavors wind up not being worth everyone's money or energy.  At any time any one of the people above or below Billy could have said, "Fuck this shit, I'm out" and they didn't.  The investors basically just took his word about revenue, didn't do any due diligence to validate his claims or determine if he had people capable of pulling off a large-scale music festival. 

 

Valley of the Boom has a good story unfolding now, a parallel to this where the feeding frenzy makes people do dumb stuff.  Greed and fear make the world go 'round, especially fear of missing out.

[Llano Estacado 1257]

I watched the Netflix doc last night.  I don't feel that bad for the investors and employees.  I mean, this is not an atypical startup story.   Every startup is some borderline sociopath founder's "vision" that does not exist, investors giving them money to make that vision a reality and a push by some talented people in the trenches to try to deliver it.  Most of these endeavors wind up not being worth everyone's money or energy.  At any time any one of the people above or below Billy could have said, "Fuck this shit, I'm out" and they didn't.

The problem with that is 75% of those employees were performing the job they got hired for, developing and launching the Fyre app “talent booking Uber”. The CEO goes down a wormhole project you aren’t in any way involved in or have a any view of trying to launch said app. The engineers, programmers, project controllers, etc were doing their jobs while management is telling them “the books are fine, we have influencers and marketing way ahead of the game, and this kickass festival is going to ensure everyone downloads our app on day 1. Keep coding, coders.” Is it the Coke delivery guy’s fault New Coke is on the shelf but Coke Classic has been pulled and way under-inventoried? He’s just doing his job.

All that said, payroll starts being missed and you better take a close look at what management is doing at any company.

[henrygandorf 29195]

re: social media influencers - my wife works in a field where they use influencers here and there.  there are a bunch of legit ones in the world of fashion, and these people spend a ton of time getting the required numbers, engaging their following, prettying up their grid, whatever the fuck they have to do to be considered an "influencer".  the ones that do it professionally have agencies they go thru that get them work and negotiate their deals.  most of the actual "influencers" are not celebrities from some other field (modeling, reality tv, music).  there are people that aren't that talented or hot or famous, but they have over a million followers, get paid a lot, and you've never heard of them.  

the answer to the question "why does so and so get paid all this money to make a twitter/instagram post" is "because it's worth it."  brands do it because that shit works.  a directed message and a tagged brand sends hordes of people to a company's site, and spikes their numbers and sales.  is it silly?  of course, but it works. 

now, if you want to question the system that allows talent-less nobodies to get themselves in position to charge $5,000-$1mm+ to make a social media post, then that's a totally different question.

[henrygandorf 29195]

oh, and as far as the "i can't believe these people would buy tickets and spend all this money without some due diligence" - that's adorable.  we all have friends that believe what they want to believe.  and the more outlandish, the more they believe it.  when they hear about some crazy concert on some private island, they instantly believe it's real and it will be amazing.  give that person a little too much money, and here you are. 

the reality is that these people live in america, they haven't had to work hard for anything, rarely have they faced adversity, and cool shit happens around them all the time.  we're not conditioned to question everything around us or assume shit is a scam.  i didn't hear about the festival until shit went sideways, but if i had, i would've probably assumed it was some crazy-ass shit in the bahamas that was paid for and organized like other high end concert/festival experiences.  when you see a website selling tickets, you don't instantly see red flags.  it's a lot easier now to say, "of course it wasn't real, duh."

also as someone who had a boss who many believed "owned his own island", i would've assumed it was just some property near a beach, not some crazy small private island that barely had an air strip.  i'm shocked they were able to get so many people there without the ability to get them out of there.

oh, and i still don't understand his earlier credit card business.  what the f was that shit?

[Junior Miller 1502]

11 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

They didn’t buy an island, they ended up going with a site next to an established resort.

Social media is still a pretty new phenomenon and we still don’t know the long term effects of giving every blithering idiot from the president to a pre-teen girl the same ability to reach billions of people. I think in many cases we’ll look and see how damaging it was. Kendall Jenner makes $1M per Instagram post. Why?

Many humans are influenced greatly by social media because it taps into the human instinct to "get along" in "tribes" for survival. Before modern technology (last 80 or so years) the entirety of human history required people to band together in tribes/families and work together for basic survival. You had to find your place in the heiarchy of the tribe and follow the leaders (be it the father or other patriarch/occasionally matriarch) in order to survive. Going against the tribe and being ostracized meant almost certain death. 

Now social media hits that evolutionary spot so hard it can get people to follow almost anyone. It's so strong it got the citizens of America to elect a completely idiotic con man with zero morals or experience to lead their country. 

It also is the leading contributor to a major spike in teen and pre teen girl's mental illness and suicide since 2012. Girls bully each other socially as opposed to physically like boys do so social media takes that female bullying and intensifies it a million fold. If you have a daughter the last thing you should do is let her use social media until she's close to if not out of high school. The risk of suicide and self mutilation is showing to be increased by well over 1000 percent with social media. 

[Goredho 17421]

1 hour ago, Llano Estacado said:

 

The problem with that is 75% of those employees were performing the job they got hired for, developing and launching the Fyre app “talent booking Uber”. The CEO goes down a wormhole project you aren’t in any way involved in or have a any view of trying to launch said app. The engineers, programmers, project controllers, etc were doing their jobs while management is telling them “the books are fine, we have influencers and marketing way ahead of the game, and this kickass festival is going to ensure everyone downloads our app on day 1. Keep coding, coders.” Is it the Coke delivery guy’s fault New Coke is on the shelf but Coke Classic has been pulled and way under-inventoried? He’s just doing his job. 

All that said, payroll starts being missed and you better take a close look at what management is doing at any company.

 

When you accept a job, you should have vetted your employer.  When you take a job at a start up, you are accepting a large amount of risk for the potential of a giant payoff.  Just like the investors.  This does not make the crazy CEO right, but start-up life is start-up life.  If you don't want this risk, you need to get a job at Google or some other established company.

[Neonmoon 38130]

I googled the credit card business and that’s just as big of a scam. It wasn’t a credit card. It was a membership program for $250. You still had the same account at your same bank at Wells Fargo or Chase. Magnesis just copied the electromanic strip off your bank card and our in onto the metal card so it looked nice. Then they held an event at a club every month or two you could attend. That’s it. For $250, you got a cheap piece of metal and an invitation to a bar. 

 

[henrygandorf 29195]

39 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

Many humans are influenced greatly by social media because it taps into the human instinct to "get along" in "tribes" for survival. Before modern technology (last 80 or so years) the entirety of human history required people to band together in tribes/families and work together for basic survival. You had to find your place in the heiarchy of the tribe and follow the leaders (be it the father or other patriarch/occasionally matriarch) in order to survive. Going against the tribe and being ostracized meant almost certain death. 

Now social media hits that evolutionary spot so hard it can get people to follow almost anyone. It's so strong it got the citizens of America to elect a completely idiotic con man with zero morals or experience to lead their country. 

It also is the leading contributor to a major spike in teen and pre teen girl's mental illness and suicide since 2012. Girls bully each other socially as opposed to physically like boys do so social media takes that female bullying and intensifies it a million fold. If you have a daughter the last thing you should do is let her use social media until she's close to if not out of high school. The risk of suicide and self mutilation is showing to be increased by well over 1000 percent with social media. 

while i'm sure this is part of the subconscious, allow me to take the contrarian view - people are stupid, weak, and lazy.  they can swipe their screen, press an icon, and see what celebrities are doing/buying/wearing.  if there's some product they like that the celebrity/influencer is using, and they've been paid to tag that product, the lazy idiot can press a couple more buttons and have this product at their door in 48 hours without even having to reach into their wallet/purse. 

it comes down to marketing, advertising, availability, and accessibility.  just like it has for 75+ years.  in a couple weeks, we'll see what millions of dollars can buy during commercial breaks of the superbowl.  is that somehow 'more' worth it?

[Knoxtnhorn 6066]

37 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I googled the credit card business and that’s just as big of a scam. It wasn’t a credit card. It was a membership program for $250. You still had the same account at your same bank at Wells Fargo or Chase. Magnesis just copied the electromanic strip off your bank card and our in onto the metal card so it looked nice. Then they held an event at a club every month or two you could attend. That’s it. For $250, you got a cheap piece of metal and an invitation to a bar. 

 

Yep.  This aspect was so stupid, I thought I was missing something.  But, I guess it goes along with the rest of the discussion on this page.  "Ooooh.  I want to be so cool and for people to notice me!"

Of course, I was in a fraternity at UT, so I'm not so sure I should cast stones.

[Parliament 14333]

I always assumed those "social media personality" chicks with fake boobs were sugar babies and outright prostitutes.

[Deej 76944]

The giveaway for anyone seeking employment with them should have been fire spelled with a Y.

[wild_turkey 3182]

I googled the credit card business and that’s just as big of a scam. It wasn’t a credit card. It was a membership program for $250. You still had the same account at your same bank at Wells Fargo or Chase. Magnesis just copied the electromanic strip off your bank card and our in onto the metal card so it looked nice. Then they held an event at a club every month or two you could attend. That’s it. For $250, you got a cheap piece of metal and an invitation to a bar. 

Honest question, what made that a scam? People pay money to be members of exclusive clubs all the time and it sounds like that’s what Magnises was, basically a social club for NYC millennials. I don’t see a big problem with that, but admittedly I don’t know any details about it.

From what I read, Magnises was doing fine and then it failed when Billy went down after the Fyre Festival. I could be wrong but it sounds like it was somewhat sustainable as a business otherwise.

[RPM 26358]

The whole thing went to hell from word go. They lost the island because they broke an agreement. The backup plan was lie, scam and pray at the last minute.

[Goredho 17421]

The Magnises card is brilliant in its way.  Stylish, meaningless, you offer nothing really and they pay you handsomely for it.  Why?  I have no clue. Something about the “what is THAT?!” it would elicit when thunked down to pay a check, I imagine.  Or maybe that it let you project an image of being connected when getting others into some “exclusive” party that you are paying for in some fashion.  Whatever, I don’t understand it, but it did seem to tap into something in the hipster crowd that most can’t identify.

Also, it basically took skimming technology used to steal people’s account information and leveraged it for a legitimate purpose.  Maybe.  If I ever owned a Magnises card, this would scare the shit out of me:  I gave Billy McFarland digital access to one of my lines of credit.