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Let’s discuss the reasons NOT to start the impeachment PROCESS

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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The clock is ticking.

I stress the word PROCESS because that means addressing certain articles through hearings, evidence, and testimony on things like emoluments, obstruction, and conspiracy.  

There is more than enough material in the public view to start the process on numerous fronts.

The PROCESS could take the better part of a year before an actual vote is taken in the House.

The Mueller report can be incorporated into the process should it emerge.

What are the good reasons NOT to start the process now? 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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3 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

A failed effort would make Trump look strong going into 2020.

IMO it’s unrealistic to think airing out all of Trump’s dirty laundy would result in making him stronger going into an election, even in an unsuccessful removal vote.

Also, even in a failed conviction, we will at least have every Senator on record of where they stand with regards to their oath of office. 

"I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God."

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Patrick Bateman

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10 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

A failed effort would make Trump look strong going into 2020.

Probably don't have the ability to compare notes with Mueller until Mueller is done.

If they wrap up too quickly, they'll pass it to Senate while Trump's approval rating is too high, guaranteeing he'll survive.

This is is partly correct..... Only fools rush in.  Let it take course and become more in focus.

 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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Let’s say the president fired the FBI director and the Attorney General to protect himself and Russia from criminal investigation?

Because he’s already done that.

 

I don’t think the goal of impeachment should necessarily be removing Trump.  I think the goal should be slowing him down.  Prevent him from further abusing his power.

Trump loves to fight.  Let’s give him the fight of his life. Someone has to put him on the defensive. 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105136

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8 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

This is is partly correct..... Only fools rush in.  Let it take course and become more in focus.

 

 

7 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

 

These.

Take your time.  Take as much time as you need.  A good sniper team may spend days waiting for the 5 second window when their target presents a shot.  A hunter may have eyes on a buck for an hour before he takes the shot.  Aim.  Breathe.  Kill.

AND....remember, we're not just aiming at one target here.  This is where the old bull/young bull joke comes in.  Don't run down there and fuck one of them. Walk down there, and fuck ALL of them.

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Mole

Mole 4333

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7 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

IMO it’s unrealistic to think airing out all of Trump’s dirty laundy would result in making him stronger going into an election, even in an unsuccessful removal vote.

David was a man after God’s heart. He was also a murderer and an adulterer. Surely revealing Trump to be more corrupt would make him more like David, right? David was a great leader, therefore the more corrupt Trump is, the greater leader his is. QED

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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Just now, Biff Tannen said:

This

It’s hilarious y’all think that’s going to make a fucking difference. The Senate Rs will bitch about the democrats jumping the gun no matter when they start the process.

Being intimidated by the reaction/response from Republicans is exactly what they what.  “Don’t overplay your hand democrats, you might get burned.”

Democrats should be like “Bitch, the president is a renegade criminal hurting Americans right now.  Go fuck yourselves with that bullshit you fucking cowards.”

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45683

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1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It’s hilarious y’all think that’s going to make a fucking difference. The Senate Rs will bitch about the democrats jumping the gun no matter when they start the process.

Being intimidated by the reaction/response from Republicans is exactly what they what.  “Don’t overplay your hand democrats, you might get burned.”

Democrats should be like “Bitch, the president is a renegade criminal hurting Americans right now.  Go fuck yourselves with that bullshit you fucking cowards.”

My thought is I want the Senate Rs to have to own their No votes on removal.  If it gets to the Senate before Mueller's report comes out, they can say, "oh, well had I known THAT stuff, I totally would have voted to remove him!"

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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11 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

How will starting the impeachment process now slow him down or prevent him from abusing his power?

It could actually accelerate it which would be even better.  The sooner we confront this monster the more likely we avoid a real war.  

Allowing him to keep slowly deteriorating the institutions will make them much more difficult to repair.  It also allows him to keep consolidating his power.  

If something isn’t done soon, we really will be Russia when he starts knocking off journalists and dissenters.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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Dertyberd

Dertyberd 394

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The longer you wait, the more political it is.  I understand you only get one shot at this, but you also don't get to choose the perfect shot when it comes to the President blatantly running train on Congressional hearings/testimony/investigations.  

After Cohen testifies in Feb. and you have evidence that the President obstructed, you go.  This can't be seen as a game and I don't think the Senate R's believe D's have the balls to stand up and do the right thing.  R's see it as wholly political (I get that it is not a criminal proceeding), but you have to administer it as a function of necessary oversight and to carry out the duties you're sworn to do.  

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29354

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I think now is the time to begin the process (which will be long). Further delays will only lend credence to the argument that they're simply doing it for political reasons. Right now, after it's been reported that he's suborned perjury and while we're in the midst of the longest ever government shutdown entirely due to his stupid tantrum, they can argue that they have a Constitutional duty to act. There's already way more than enough shit in the public record to justify impeachment, and a shitload more will come to light during the process regardless of whether they begin holding hearings tomorrow or a year from now.

The longer they wait, the more successful the Republican argument that it's all just a political stunt will be with potential swing voters (and potential Republican to abstaining voters). Unfortunately, those are the people whose opinions matter. Mueller's investigation is first and foremost an investigation into Russian activities, both completed and ongoing activities. That means he won't be finished any time soon. The Dems should coordinate with him to make sure they don't jump the gun and fuck up any pending indictments or prosecutions, but they can't wait on him to wrap everything up, and there's more than enough material completely separate from Mueller's investigation that they need to begin publicly discussing as valid bases for impeachment (such as Trump's 1,400 conflicts of interest). 

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Bama Chick

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“Don’t do it too soon!”

“Don’t wait too long!”

All anyone’s worrying about is the optics for the Democrats - not the optics of a traitor as president.

You do it when you have the evidence to prove the charges.

With Mueller, without Mueller, tomorrow, next year......doesn’t make a shit.

You do it when you can prove it.

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Hugo Stiglitz

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Just now, Henry Hill said:

Probably need more than a Buzzfeed News report. Probably.

There is enough in his twitter feed alone to convince a jury he’s guilty of obstruction of justice and witness tampering.

The evidence is in his public statements, actions, and already existing court documents.

You don’t need a single smoking gun when there is an armory on fire with multiple cannons going off.

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Jack Straw

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4 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

“Don’t do it too soon!”

“Don’t wait too long!”

All anyone’s worrying about is the optics for the Democrats - not the optics of a traitor as president.

You do it when you have the evidence to prove the charges.

With Mueller, without Mueller, tomorrow, next year......doesn’t make a shit.

You do it when you can prove it.

“Let’s wait til we can get the traitors on board!”  

The process of removing Trump should have been started within an hour of him stepping off the stage in Helsinki.  

You don’t wait on traitors to do the right thing, to do the right thing yourself.  

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Henry Hill

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Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

There is enough in his twitter feed alone to convince a jury he’s guilty of obstruction of justice and witness tampering.

The evidence is in his public statements, actions, and already existing court documents.

You don’t need a single smoking gun when there is an armory on fire with multiple cannons going off.

So BuzzFeed News and tweets. Got it.

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retread

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25 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Does Trump need to be held accountable for crimes?

How can Trump be held accountable for crimes?

This isn’t difficult 

Since Rosenstein is comfortable leaving, I assume that Mueller is getting near the end. Nadler (House Judicial) said that he would subpoena the Mueller Report if Barr tried to hide anything.

It seems that Cheeto is cooked on the federal level. He'll be impeached -- convicted only if there is a lot of evidence to satisfy the traitorous Rs in the Senate.

If Pence survives, he'll pardon him.

If they really start turning the screws on him/Jr/Ivanka, I could see him resigning in exchange for the SDNY charges going away.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13195

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55 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It could actually accelerate it which would be even better.  The sooner we confront this monster the more likely we avoid a real war.  

Sentence 1: "I was wrong in the thing I said."

Sentence 2: "Let me make this even more melodramatic!"

Quote

If something isn’t done soon, we really will be Russia when he starts knocking off journalists and dissenters.

Jesus Christ, Hugo.

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Pig Bellmont

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26 minutes ago, Henry Hill said:

Probably need more than a Buzzfeed News report. Probably.

1) do you believe the article is based on documents and testimony to federal prosecutors?

2) do you believe that one article is the summation of all high crimes and misdemeanors for which this president could be impeached?

never mind. You’re trolling 

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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Who else is gonna serve Mickey D’s at the White House?

Seriously, if you’re looking to convict Jamal the gangbanger from south dallas you’ve got more than enough to convict him of anything  and send him to the chair in Huntsville. 

If you’re looking to convict a rich white guy that at least 35 percent of the country worships as a God, however, even if he’s a total piece of shit, then you’re gonna need more than some tweets and a news article.

Mueller has it. I have no idea why but he’s waiting for a reason. Probably due to that super duper secret subpoena fight currently in front of PJ, squee , Donkey Kong Doug and the rest of the Supreme Court. My guess is that may not just be the smoking gun, but be the total smoking 35 strong cannon fire.

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Biff Tannen

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4 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Who else is gonna serve Mickey D’s at the White House?

Seriously, if you’re looking to convict Jamal the gangbanger from south dallas you’ve got more than enough to convict him of anything  and send him to the chair in Huntsville. 

If you’re looking to convict a rich white guy that at least 35 percent of the country worships as a God, however, even if he’s a total piece of shit, then you’re gonna need more than some tweets and a news article.

Mueller has it. I have no idea why but he’s waiting for a reason. Probably due to that super duper secret subpoena fight currently in front of PJ, squee , Donkey Kong Doug and the rest of the Supreme Court. My guess is that may not just be the smoking gun, but be the total smoking 35 strong cannon fire.

*Donkey DONG Doug.  Don't forget Gangbang Greg.

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Goredho

Goredho 17405

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"The special counsel’s office learned about Trump’s directive for Cohen to lie to Congress through interviews with multiple witnesses from the Trump Organization and internal company emails, text messages, and a cache of other documents. Cohen then acknowledged those instructions during his interviews with that office."

Banana in the tailpipe.  Mueller is not finished and you run the risk of aborting a series of events like the one described above in the buzzfeed article.  Let Mueller do his job.  Let him apply pressure outside of the limelight so as to be able to surface all the damning facts there are.  Start aubpoening shit and calling for public testimony now and you stand a good chance of preventing the next domino from dropping that either further implicates Trump, or perhaps more importantly others involved in a Russian conspiracy within the GOP, etc...

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13195

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You wait for the Mueller report to impeach. You don't wait for the report to decide to impeach, that's a fait accompli. But there's really no reason to start it before the report drops, unless the report takes another year or if the AG tries to bury it.

Right now, however, you can start the messaging. The overwhelming message should be "We do not need to wait for this report. That report is coming from the Executive branch and we are a co-equal branch of government sworn to a Constitutional oath to impeach a criminal president."

But you still wait.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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5 minutes ago, Goredho said:

"The special counsel’s office learned about Trump’s directive for Cohen to lie to Congress through interviews with multiple witnesses from the Trump Organization and internal company emails, text messages, and a cache of other documents. Cohen then acknowledged those instructions during his interviews with that office."

Banana in the tailpipe.  Mueller is not finished and you run the risk of aborting a series of events like the one described above in the buzzfeed article.  Let Mueller do his job.  Let him apply pressure outside of the limelight so as to be able to surface all the damning facts there are.  Start aubpoening shit and calling for public testimony now and you stand a good chance of preventing the next domino from dropping that either further implicates Trump, or perhaps more importantly others involved in a Russian conspiracy within the GOP, etc...

The Mueller investigation can go on for years and Trump’s toadies hold the keys to whatever is released. 

Democrats need to operate in a world where the Mueller investigation doesn’t exist, or at least act like it.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Gonna be awesome to hear from all these “let’s wait for Mueller” folks when Trump fires Mueller and burns the report.  

Holy fuck we deserve Trump.

No we don’t.  If the Republican Party were to take over the country completely now then I guess you could somehow make that argument. That hasn’t happened. 

You’ve become slightly schizophrenic lately. 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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14 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Something happened in November that was kind of important.

I can't remember what it is.

And Trump fired the Atttorney General the day after for no reason except the obvious one...because of Mueller investigation.

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