CC Carroll being rebuilt in Navy Flight Accident Potential Zone

[Beau Vine 55193]

What a shitshow...

Quote

The location of a new Southside school campus could threaten the future of the Navy’s investment in South Texas.

“Everyone I’ve talked to from the Pentagon to the local base commanders (say) encroachment is their number one concern,” said Dick Messbarger, chairman emeritus of the Texas Defense Aviation Aerospace Alliance.

Messbarger has spent the past 28 years working to defend and expand naval base and air installations in Kingsville and Corpus Christi. He’s also sat through more than two dozen hearings for base realignment and closure, also  known as BRAC.

Encroachment is what the Navy considers unwanted development near an airfield, and that’s what the new Mary Carroll High School would become if it’s built on land already purchased by Corpus Christi Independent School District.

“The fact that the Navy sent a letter that was very clear to the school district that they thought this was a bad idea and recommended against it, I think is significant,” Messbarger said.

In March, the Navy sent CCISD a letter recommending the school campus not be built on a 60-acre site on Saratoga Boulevard near the intersection of Weber Road because it was in a Navy Accident Potential Zone (APZ). In response, the school district re-configured the campus site plan and switched the school building with the parking lot and athletic fields. That updated plan means the athletic fields and parking lots will be built in the accident potential zone.

(Editorial note: Holy shit, what a bunch of rubes.  😲)

CCISD board members have finalized the purchase of the land, according to Leanne Libby, spokeswoman for CCISD. And in November, voters agreed to pay for the new campus, an estimated $175 million.

The campus would be in an accident potential zone for the nearby Cabaniss Field, which is where student pilots train on multi-engine aircraft. Much of the public concerns voiced at recent school board meetings have been about student safety, but there is another significant issue at play. It’s one that South Texas Military Installations Task Force member Loyd Neal raised back in November.

Plans for the new campus are now moving toward construction. If the campus is built on that site, Messbarger said there could be big consequences.

“This is the only base the Navy does multi-engine training at, and if you took multi-engine training away. If they felt like there was too much encroachment, that’s one thing and I’m not going to play Chicken Little with you, but I’m just telling you that’s a factor that could lead to the possible relocation.”

No one knows for sure if relocation or base closure could happen, but Messbarger said officials at the Pentagon are paying attention, but it could take years to find out if anything will come of it.

“You know, (the Navy) won’t stop flying, but you’re going to have better than 50,000 flights going over this area, every year, and in a time of evaluation and analysis that could become a factor,” he said.

Corpus Christi ISD declined an interview for this news article, and instead sent a statement that read in part that at no point during the land evaluation process “were concerns expressed regarding encroachment.”

The Navy’s official stance has not changed. 

In October, a spokesperson for the Navy said it had recommended the new campus not be built in that area. The concerns were for the safety of students and noise from low-flying aircraft.

 

[Armybrat 41078]

So CCISD lied about there being no concerns expressed about encroachment.

somebody ought to see what relationships there were between the school board members and the property seller.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Armybrat

[MissingInAction 25343]

Stinks of the usual corruption, people will die because of it, and those responsible will not be held accountable. 

Rinse 

Repeat

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4983]

If the Navy is so concerned about accidents in this zone, why have they not bought the land themselves?

[shnsajax 3592]

Carroll sucks, but this seems appropriate for CCISD.

[MAROON 445]

CCISD football stadium and athletic facility is right next to Cabaniss.  Was it an issue when those were built?

 

Here's an idea - sell Cabaniss and combine its operations with one of the other fields down there - CC, Kingsville, Orange Grove, Waldren.  Or sell Cabaniss and move it to more rural location 

[Hate 20178]

We're probably all better off if a few schools in Corpus get taken out.

[Helobious 9525]

The current school is kind of old, but what’s wrong with just giving it some renovations. CC Vets opening took care of overcrowding  issues, they shouldn’t need a brand new school.

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3868]

CC is going on 50-60 years of the worst local government. How hard is it to make a place on the Gulf within a 4 hour drive of both Austin and SA, and only 90 minutes further than Galveston for many Houstonians, a real tourist destination?

Edited January 22, 2019 by ShaggyBevo RIP

[El Diablo 4232]

49 minutes ago, MAROON said:

CCISD football stadium and athletic facility is right next to Cabaniss.  Was it an issue when those were built?

 

Here's an idea - sell Cabaniss and combine its operations with one of the other fields down there - CC, Kingsville, Orange Grove, Waldren.  Or sell Cabaniss and move it to more rural location 

That's a lot of money that the community would likely miss, don't you think?

[Trey3216 15392]

If we committed to consuming more cannabis near Cabaniss, the level of emotional turmoil regarding this ordeal would drastically decrease. 

[MAROON 445]

what money are you referring to?

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

1 hour ago, shnsajax said:

Carroll sucks, but this seems appropriate for CCISD.

Pretty much. It always blew my mind that King and Carroll were in the same district. One is a reasonable facsimile of an okay kind of school building, the other was always out of date, from the second it opened, and would probably be subpar as a prison, let alone as a school.

[shnsajax 3592]

21 minutes ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

CC is going on 50-60 years of the worst local government. How hard is it to make a place on the Gulf within a 4 hour drive of both Austin and SA, and only 90 minutes further than Galveston for many Houstonians, a real tourist destination?

Spoiler

 

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

39 minutes ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

CC is going on 50-60 years of the worst local government. How hard is it to make a place on the Gulf within a 4 hour drive of both Austin and SA, and only 90 minutes further than Galveston for many Houstonians, a real tourist destination?

I was 8 years old when we moved to Kingsville, and the big news story every single night was the continuing saga of Lester Roloff. Any community that idolizes a walking, talking piece of shit like him? Yeah, they are not likely to do much of anything particularly well.

[Beau Vine 55193]

2 hours ago, Hate said:

We're probably all better off if a few schools in Corpus get taken out.

Palabra.

 

[Spaulding Smails 1584]

2 hours ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

CC is going on 50-60 years of the worst local government. How hard is it to make a place on the Gulf within a 4 hour drive of both Austin and SA, and only 90 minutes further than Galveston for many Houstonians, a real tourist destination?

This is the correct answer.  That school board and city council are beyond laughable and have been since my parents were kids in CC.  That city should be overflowing with financial success stories based on it's proximity to natural resources, location on the gulf / major waterways, military presence, tourist potential, affordable housing and affordable labor.  Instead, both the city and school district are perpetually teetering on the brink of bankruptcy due to corruption and bad decisions.  

[OrangEngr 1035]

1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

Palabra.

 

10 seconds. I'm out

[HornsOverIthaca 2339]

Buccaneer stadium is a turd.

[Not a cat 5742]

If they could build the school all over, it wouldn't matter anyway...

[Beau Vine 55193]

56 minutes ago, Spaulding Smails said:

This is the correct answer.  That school board and city council are beyond laughable and have been since my parents were kids in CC.  That city should be overflowing with financial success stories based on it's proximity to natural resources, location on the gulf / major waterways, military presence, tourist potential, affordable housing and affordable labor.  Instead, both the city and school district are perpetually teetering on the brink of bankruptcy due to corruption and bad decisions.  

Truth.  

 I don't have the data to back this up, but I'm convinced that the #1 cause of a city turning to shit is poor public school systems.  Bad public school systems create so many negative externalities that it becomes impossible to fix the city without fixing the schools first.  

[Spaulding Smails 1584]

11 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Truth.  

 I don't have the data to back this up, but I'm convinced that the #1 cause of a city turning to shit is poor public school systems.  Bad public school systems create so many negative externalities that it becomes impossible to fix the city without fixing the schools first.  

I agree with you for the most part.  The peripheral school districts in the Coastal Bend (GP, Calallen, Tuloso-Midway) are decent, but CCISD is abysmal.  I was there through middle-school.  Even at that age, I knew it was bad.  And according to most of my family that still lives there, it's gotten worse.  My cousins all went to King or Incarnate Word, so they were spared the worst of it.  Based on the stories I've heard, I can't fathom going to Miller or Moody.

One interesting contradiction to your theory, however, is Austin.  I believe AISD has declining enrollment, and although I wouldn't consider it a shitty school district, it's certainly not a banner system.  I don't want to derail the thread, but that generalization seems to be more aligned with small to mid-sized cities where the anchor school district for that geographic area constitutes the majority of the enrolled students.

[Beau Vine 55193]

5 minutes ago, Spaulding Smails said:

One interesting contradiction to your theory, however, is Austin.  I believe AISD has declining enrollment, and although I wouldn't consider it a shitty school district, it's certainly not a banner system.  I don't want to derail the thread, but that generalization seems to be more aligned with small to mid-sized cities where the anchor school district for that geographic area constitutes the majority of the enrolled students.

Can I throw a corollary in?

* Unless your city is also home to a major research university.  See Austin, Seattle.

[Parliament 14430]

This place where they wanna build a school or whatever is not safe because of Navy fighter jets.

Would you say it is a...

Danger Zone?

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

1 hour ago, Parliament said:

This place where they wanna build a school or whatever is not safe because of Navy fighter jets.

Would you say it is a...

Danger Zone?

And is there a highway to it? 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Parliament said:

This place where they wanna build a school or whatever is not safe because of Navy fighter jets.

Would you say it is a...

Danger Zone?

new Mascot:  Mavericks

[Not a cat 5742]

I'd go with Archers, but Mavericks is a good choice too.

[shnsajax 3592]

Buccaneer stadium is a turd.

True but thinking about it makes me miss Old Mexico.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Archer 474]

44 minutes ago, Not a cat said:

I'd go with Archers, but Mavericks is a good choice too.

I’d second that. 

[TornACL 7767]

Fun fact : At least once, a commercial flight has accidentally landed at Cabaniss Field instead of the CC Int'l Airport.

The incident I recall was a Continental flight. That's a pretty big oops. 

[SquishMitten 10474]

what money are you referring to?

I think he’s referring to the money that would leave the community if the base closed and/or had a significant number of its operations relocated. That would lead to a lot fewer personnel living, eating, spending, etc in the area. It’s the “threat” mentioned near the end of the article.

[Nolacycling 893]

On 1/22/2019 at 1:43 PM, Helobious said:

The current school is kind of old, but what’s wrong with just giving it some renovations. CC Vets opening took care of overcrowding  issues, they shouldn’t need a brand new school.

Presently teach @ Carrol. Personally, I love Carroll's building. I have 8 ft windows looking out on courtyards and large trees. It's set up like an old motel where my door opens onto a open-air walkway. Looks as if it was built in 60's. I can't guess at the costs to bring the building into the 21st century, but probably extensive. 

Vets solved overcrowding until now. They have grown and would be classified as the only 6a school in the Coastal Bend come next Spring w/UIL realignment.. CCISD will not allow this to happen because of the costs and time  involved in bussing students involved in activities to the Valley or San Antone. There is a huge school board battle on the horizon as Vets boundaries will change and people who bought homes in order to attend the "good" school will be pissed. 

The new Carroll is meant to appease them. Also it is so easy to sell the safety issue these days. As far as airplane parts dropping on the property, I don't know who to believe. Funny note- designers were instructed to move the practice fields in harm's way rather than the building. I've only been here two years and can't confirm the stories of who are getting various contracts or who owned the land.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Nolacycling

[Nolacycling 893]

23 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Truth.  

 I don't have the data to back this up, but I'm convinced that the #1 cause of a city turning to shit is poor public school systems.  Bad public school systems create so many negative externalities that it becomes impossible to fix the city without fixing the schools first.  

Chicken or egg? Does a school become shitty and underserve the population or does  a shitty population make it a shitty school?

[Your Mom 4897]

TLDR:

CCISD: Request permission to build school near the tower.

US Navy:  Negative Ghostrider, the pattern is full.

[Beau Vine 55193]

4 hours ago, Nolacycling said:

Chicken or egg? Does a school become shitty and underserve the population or does  a shitty population make it a shitty school?

Chicken.  Seattle is a ridiculously rich city, but their public schools have been awful since I lived there.  

[Nolacycling 893]

Yes, but is it a particular part of the city? Houston ISD considered lame, but suburban schools generally good. 

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3868]

On 1/24/2019 at 7:53 AM, Nolacycling said:

Yes, but is it a particular part of the city? Houston ISD considered lame, but suburban schools generally good. 

HISD has excellent magnet programs as well.

[Nolacycling 893]

HISD has excellent magnet programs as well.

Totally agree. HSPVA, etc. are wonderful. Our IB program at Lamar was very challenging. But they exist so a student can dodge Milby or Kashmere or Sterling or... being in the regular program at Lamar. I'm an egg person. If you were going to make the same $ wherever you taught would you choose Highland Park or SOC? If Churchill was told they were going to exchange 1000 students w/ a SSAISD school, what would parents do?

[Nueces River Rat 5619]

On 1/22/2019 at 2:02 PM, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

CC is going on 50-60 years of the worst local government. How hard is it to make a place on the Gulf within a 4 hour drive of both Austin and SA, and only 90 minutes further than Galveston for many Houstonians, a real tourist destination?

Pretty much on target.  I live here and while it's better than it was 20 years ago when I established residency here, it's still has a way to go.

I've heard many stories and accounts of how Corpus has shot itself in the foot so many times, you want to cry at the opportunities that have been missed because a certain establishment controls the real estate market and decides who comes into town and who doesn't.   Recently we had Costco wanting to build and our then  Mayor went on TV and said they couldn't receive the same tax incentives which were used to revitalize  two other shopping venues in the city.   Guess what?  She works for a big real estate title company and three years later no Costco.  The same has happened to other chances to have private investment on our Bayfront and Downtown.  It's real frustrating seeing SA to the north  and the RGV to the south  getting retail, entertainment, and dining establishments which a city of 350K should have as well just because our stupid city leaders of the past damaged our reps.  I know the sales tax leakage has to be significant to those two regions from Corpus which should be kept here to help pay for repairing our crappy streets for one.

Despite all of that, the oil and gas industry is bringing new people to town and the region in general.  But like someone posted above, they are seeking out the Calallen, Flour Bluff, GP and London ISD's to establish roots.  I live in the Calallen ISD which is the northwest part of the city and we don't even fell like we are part of CC out here.  We like it just because of that fact and the school system is good on the academic and athletic part of the equation.   But we in no way do we get our return in our city taxes out here.  Not even close.

We have 5 years to go here and we are moving somewhere in the Austin/ San Antonio area.   We sold our business a year ago and I'm starting a new venture which I hope to have a location or two in the Austin/ SA area as well as here.  My last child has five years until she graduates and we've kind of decided to let her finish here instead of up rooting her and making her start somewhere else and disrupt her life.  We can stick it out another few years which is ok because we can find some land and build a home up in that area to our specs and take our time doing it if need be vs being rushed.  

[Nueces River Rat 5619]

On 1/22/2019 at 1:17 PM, MAROON said:

CCISD football stadium and athletic facility is right next to Cabaniss.  Was it an issue when those were built?

 

Here's an idea - sell Cabaniss and combine its operations with one of the other fields down there - CC, Kingsville, Orange Grove, Waldren.  Or sell Cabaniss and move it to more rural location 

From what I understand, it's not in the approach area vs the Carroll proposed location.  Really the location is crap location with or without the Navy being a factor.  Building a new school on one of the busiest connecting streets to Southside is a traffic headache. 

You do bring up a good point about the other auxiliary fields as you call them.   They used to do touch and goes at the CC Airport, but I don't know if air  traffic has increased to the point where that is prohibitive?  They should look at some of the county airports which have expanded their runways around here.  

[EZ$ 2109]

On 1/23/2019 at 6:00 AM, TornACL said:

Fun fact : At least once, a commercial flight has accidentally landed at Cabaniss Field instead of the CC Int'l Airport.

The incident I recall was a Continental flight. That's a pretty big oops. 

Pilot probably just drunk...no big deal.