Texas recruiting notes 2019

[UT Lawnghorn 758]

11 minutes ago, GlenFromTheMailRoom said:

Can you guys please take this shit to the football board?

[Machinator 32099]

1 minute ago, T-dog said:

Because last year's sample was pretty much shit. You had two young QBs starting continuously getting banged up because the oline couldn't block. You had freshmen starting at virtually every position throughout the offense at some point because of shitty depth. And then our oline woes made it really hard to execute plays. Imo play calling wasn't the biggest issue, but oline play and execution (some of it attributable to youth). Our offense is going to be better this year and if not, I'm totally for a change. Oline was the biggest issue and TH tackled that one in the off-season. But Beck has done a tremendous job on the recruiting trail hauling in 3 stud QBs so far and is closing in on the next cycle right now. This year will be the make and break year for him, but I am confident that we will see improvement based on those factors 

This would be a more defensible position if Beck had not failed at his previous two stops where he had more to work with.

And Beck's work on the trail is why I'm OK with putting him somewhere else on the staff (like WRs coach, which he has experience with) and not just canning him.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Machinator

[UT Lawnghorn 758]

1 minute ago, T-dog said:

Because last year's sample was pretty much shit. You had two young QBs starting continuously getting banged up because the oline couldn't block. You had freshmen starting at virtually every position throughout the offense at some point because of shitty depth. And then our oline woes made it really hard to execute plays. Imo play calling wasn't the biggest issue, but oline play and execution (some of it attributable to youth). Our offense is going to be better this year and if not, I'm totally for a change. Oline was the biggest issue and TH tackled that one in the off-season. But Beck has done a tremendous job on the recruiting trail hauling in 3 stud QBs so far and is closing in on the next cycle right now. This year will be the make and break year for him, but I am confident that we will see improvement based on those factors 

Of course we'll see improvement due to better personnel, but this offense could improve a decent bit and still be really bad.  No one doubts there were personnel issues last year, but the staff did nothing to help with that. They ran 11 personnel without a decent TE all year. Beck called plays that everyone knows we couldn't execute over and over, and while there were limited plays we could execute, there were some. But instead of sticking to stuff our offense could run, Beck called for plays over and over everyone know we couldn't, like expecting Garret Grey to block a TE or Tristan Nickelson to be able to block outside zone. The reality is Beck has underperformed everywhere he's been as an OC and he did the same last year. There's not reason to expect he quits doing that now. There's no reason this year has to be make or break for him. It's been break for Beck for many years now.  Beck will always hold this team back, regardless of whether our personnel improves.  There's plenty of evidence to make that conclusion. One more year isn't necessary.

It's cool that he's recruited well, but when you're talking about a coordinator, coaching trumps recruiting every time.

[SquishMitten 10408]

Awesome..
Austin forecast calls for thunderstorms Friday, but otherwise partly sunny, mid 80's through the weekend.
Yeah, I know only message board geeks obsess over the weather and shit for recruiting weekends, but nice weather is never a bad thing.

We’ve had some real shitty weather on big recruiting weekends this year. Hope this one is nice. When you’re in College Station, it’s probably nice to get rained out. But when part of the pitch is the city itself, it’s kinda important if they can get out and see it.

[Ricky Butler 2723]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

Herman hasn’t won me over yet. This year makes or breaks him at Texas. It’s funny talking to other Texas fans. Most have drank the kool-aid as most fans do with a new coach. They want their team to win. They want this hire to be the right guy. I do too. I just haven’t seen the results and have seen some questionable decisions. 

I'm one of these fans because I feel like he came in with a plan to optimize the institutional advantages at Texas. It's passive income. Plant the seed and let it grow. I don't think he's beyond reproach, though. He's made staff hiring mistakes. At some point, we need to give a coach with a good plan time, let him make mistakes, and see if he can grow into the job. I really hope Del Conte helps with this. He's seen what worked at TCU.

[lemonandaturd 4285]

After reading this shit you would think we hired Bo Pellini as head coach.  

[Elmer_Fudd 22259]

18 minutes ago, Fud said:

Three years in a row, actually 

How is last years class going to hurt?  We signed arguably, and IMO, the 3 best DL in-state.  I don't care if Brown and Wright were rated higher than Ossai and/or Ojomo, Brown has bust written all over him and looks lazy and seems to have more interest in kneeling during the anthem than playing football.  And Wright has already blown out both knees and we've seen how that worked out for Justin Dunning.  And the 2 OOS guys are solid prospects as well with Carson being one of our earliest offers.

Now I'm not giving Giles all the credit for getting these guys, but I don't think last years DL class is going to set us back.

[Machinator 32099]

2 minutes ago, Elmer_Fudd said:

How is last years class going to hurt?  We signed arguably, and IMO, the 3 best DL in-state.  I don't care if Brown and Wright were rated higher than Ossai and/or Ojomo, Brown has bust written all over him and looks lazy and seems to have more interest in kneeling during the anthem than playing football.  And Wright has already blown out both knees and we've seen how that worked out for Justin Dunning.  And the 2 OOS guys are solid prospects as well with Carson being one of our earliest offers.

Now I'm not giving Giles all the credit for getting these guys, but I don't think last years DL class is going to set us back.

Yeah, last year was fine, but we succeeded in spite of Giles, not because of him.

[Hank Scorpio 17729]

1 minute ago, Elmer_Fudd said:

 Brown has bust written all over him and looks lazy and seems to have more interest in kneeling during the anthem than playing football

Hell yes. Let's get this shit going up in here. Lazy good for nothing hates the troops kneeling 17 year old piece of shit. Fuck him. 

[Ricky Butler 2723]

1 minute ago, Machinator said:

Yeah, last year was fine, but we succeeded in spite of Giles, not because of him.

Hopefully our player development is better under Herman. If a few of these 3-stars turn into NFL players, I think we'll all relax a little bit.

[Ricky Butler 2723]

2 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Hell yes. Let's get this shit going up in here. Lazy good for nothing hates the troops kneeling 17 year old piece of shit. Fuck him. 

I didn't even catch that the first time. Good God.

[GW Hayduke 1953]

3 minutes ago, Elmer_Fudd said:

How is last years class going to hurt?  We signed arguably, and IMO, the 3 best DL in-state.  I don't care if Brown and Wright were rated higher than Ossai and/or Ojomo, Brown has bust written all over him and looks lazy and seems to have more interest in kneeling during the anthem than playing football.  And Wright has already blown out both knees and we've seen how that worked out for Justin Dunning.  And the 2 OOS guys are solid prospects as well with Carson being one of our earliest offers.

Now I'm not giving Giles all the credit for getting these guys, but I don't think last years DL class is going to set us back.

It is hard to look at last year’s DL play and recruits and think we need to fix things at this point. 

[Machinator 32099]

7 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

Hopefully our player development is better under Herman. If a few of these 3-stars turn into NFL players, I think we'll all relax a little bit.

Giles is a good coach, Orlando is still on the staff, and the staff overall seems to be pretty good at evaluation. I would not be surprised to see our 2018 DL class be the lynchpin of future Big 12 championship teams. But our aspirations are higher. Coached up 3-stars (although some of the guys last cycle were certainly underrated) can only do so much when we're going against teams with coached-up 5-stars.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Machinator

[UT Lawnghorn 758]

7 minutes ago, lemonandaturd said:

After reading this shit you would think we hired Bo Pellini as head coach.  

1. I haven't seen a single person say they think he should be fired or that he's a bad coach.

2. Pellini's not a good coach, but he did go 9-4, 10-4, 10-4 in his first three years.  I doubt Herman will have 29 wins by the end of his first three years. 

Just now, GW Hayduke said:

It is hard to look at last year’s DL play and recruits and think we need to fix things at this point. 

Again, I didn't say Giles should be fired.  He can absolutely coach and that has value, but he needs help recruiting and Herman's not doing enough at this point to help him. IT's been covered endlessly in shaggy recruiting threads that Giles wasn't the main reason we recruited well on the DL last year.  Giles's weakness is that he's not a good recruiter, and Herman needs to identify that weakness and shore up the problem.

[Elmer_Fudd 22259]

Maybe if the Ogre gets canned we can hire him as DL coach just to recruit.  Sure, he's a clown as a HC, but just having him recruit would be a plus.

[lemonandaturd 4285]

Is Gerry Faust dead?  He would be great at recruiting because he was a high school coach.  I bet he can still coach 'em up good.  We could have Ogre as D coordinator and Johnny Manziel as OC.  

[Ricky Butler 2723]

9 minutes ago, Machinator said:

Giles is a good coach, Orlando is still on the staff, and the staff overall seems to be pretty good at evaluation. I would not be surprised to see our 2018 DL class be the lynchpin of future Big 12 championship teams. But our aspirations are higher. Coached up 3-stars (although some of the guys last cycle were certainly underrated) can only do so much when we're going against teams with coached-up 5-stars.

Let's learn to crawl before we walk. And I'm not talking about an entire roster of 3-stars. I'm saying good player development makes the difference between Jackson Jeffcoat and Breckyn Hager workable.

[GW Hayduke 1953]

9 minutes ago, UT Lawnghorn said:

Again, I didn't say Giles should be fired.  He can absolutely coach and that has value, but he needs help recruiting and Herman's not doing enough at this point to help him. IT's been covered endlessly in shaggy recruiting threads that Giles wasn't the main reason we recruited well on the DL last year.  Giles's weakness is that he's not a good recruiter, and Herman needs to identify that weakness and shore up the problem.

I understand you want Giles to get help recruiting. I also understand that last year Giles got help recruiting and we landed a great set of recruits on the DL.

[Machinator 32099]

4 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

I understand you want Giles to get help recruiting. I also understand that last year Giles got help recruiting and we landed a great set of recruits on the DL.

So ask yourself this: are we going to be able to land the best possible classes every year by letting Giles putter around for 11 months then unleashing Carrington for a few weeks?

[GW Hayduke 1953]

4 minutes ago, Machinator said:

So ask yourself this: are we going to be able to land the best possible classes every year by letting Giles putter around for 11 months then unleashing Carrington for a few weeks?

The options are 1) we get rid of Giles and get a guy that is great at recruiting or 2) we have folks help him recruit. 

I understand that carrington, Orlando, and Herman all weighed into landing last years DL class. 

If folks are saying that Giles needs MORE help, then sure, why not. 

[UT Lawnghorn 758]

7 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

I understand you want Giles to get help recruiting. I also understand that last year Giles got help recruiting and we landed a great set of recruits on the DL.

Great is taking it pretty far. The reality is we missed out on a lot of our top targets and were able to salvage a good class late.  A guy like Ojomo won't pop up with two months to go every year. Carson and Williams are projects. We don't get Ossai if there's no coaching change, and we were fortunate Coburn went to Westfield.

We scraped together a DL class but that kind of thing isn't sustainable.  We've missed out on our top target already this year. Stripling is likely not coming here. I expect us to get Nana, but it's hard to say the reason we get him is because of Giles. A better recruiting effort probably means Nana is already a sure thing. Mowry is already committed to aggy. That's the top 4 DL in the state. 3 are close to guarantees not to come here and the fourth is still up in the air. Now, I see us offering OOS 3 stars. This is not the optimal way to handle DL recruiting every year. Herman needs to recognize this and address it. So far, he has not.

[Machinator 32099]

Just now, GW Hayduke said:

The options are 1) we get rid of Giles and get a guy that is great at recruiting or 2) we have folks help him recruit. 

I understand that carrington, Orlando, and Herman all weighed into landing last years DL class. 

If folks are saying that Giles needs MORE help, then sure, why not. 

What others are trying to say is that Giles needs permanent help. If Herman doesn't have the time or willingness to take the lead on DL recruiting throughout the year (which is likely), then find a position coach who can - not necessarily instead of Giles, but in addition to him.

[UT Lawnghorn 758]

1 minute ago, GW Hayduke said:

The options are 1) we get rid of Giles and get a guy that is great at recruiting or 2) we have folks help him recruit. 

I understand that carrington, Orlando, and Herman all weighed into landing last years DL class. 

If folks are saying that Giles needs MORE help, then sure, why not. 

That's exactly what I said. Also, the most obvious option is to use the 10th assistant spot on a second DL coach who can recruit, rather htan wasting 3 spots to coach TEs and WRs. Keeping the dead weight of Mehringer and Warehime is absolutely affecting this team and the "consistency" argument is a joke.  They both had their jobs changed over the offseason.

[Machinator 32099]

1 minute ago, UT Lawnghorn said:

The reality is we missed out on a lot of our top targets

Who were our realistic top targets that we missed out on, and that we had a realistic chance of landing (before factoring in Giles)? I can only think of Perkins - unless you think we had a legitimate shot at keeping Tatum?

[Sgt. Slaughter 2841]

[UT Lawnghorn 758]

2 minutes ago, Machinator said:

Who were our realistic top targets that we missed out on, and that we had a realistic chance of landing (before factoring in Giles)? I can only think of Perkins - unless you think we had a legitimate shot at keeping Tatum?

Perkins, Brown, and Wright.  I'm fine with not landing the last two, but they were absolutely priority targets at the start of the cycle. I'd also add that Ossai was a top target we missed on until Sumlin's incompetence saved the day. Coburn is the only guy you could say was a top target from the start that we landed, and the Meekins-Westfield connection did most of the leg work there.

[coachkiss 166]

1 hour ago, UT Lawnghorn said:

None of the OL cared that they got a new OL coach. I can promise you the WRs wouldn't give a shit.  Mehringer/Beck's god awful rotation of WRs is more harmful than changing position coaches. 

Beck was a terrible hire when it happened, and he's still a bad OC. He's likely going to get let go at hte end of the year, so why leave a bad coach in place? I don't usually advocate for change, but when the coach has been poor everywhere he's gone and he was poor for your team last year, what evidence do you have to expect a better result this year?

Everywhere he has gone as offensive coordinator his offense has averaged better results per S&P metrics than Orlando's defenses have when he was defensive coordinator.  Now, you might can attribute it to Beck having more talent than some places than Orlando did or small sample size, but you can't deny that Orlando has been poor some, too.  However, he gets the free pass.  Why?  Because of the part of your sentence "last year."  Orlando's results say he may throw out a stinker, but you feel that he is on an upward trajectory because his most recent results have been good.

Maybe, just maybe, Todd Orlando is getting better at his job the longer he does it.  This is year 17 for him as a defensive coordinator.  Maybe he is continuing to learn and grow.  Maybe Beck in his 8th year as OC will start to have similar luck.  Maybe he won't.  We were all pretty damn sure that Manny _iaz was a fool just a few short years ago.  The guy wondering if we can hold onto Orlando for five more years might be wanting to seem him fired after game 1 next year.   

To sum up, I don't think anyone on this staff deserves kudos or a firing based on what they did last year.   

[EastTexan 662]

2 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

If we allow him to come out of the recruiting process believing that Notre Dame is substantially more diverse than the University of Texas, then we deserve to lose.

 

He needs to read surly. Can't get more diverse than this collection of asses.

[Machinator 32099]

2 minutes ago, coachkiss said:

Now, you might can attribute it to Beck having more talent than some places than Orlando did

I'd say Beck getting to work with the talent at Nebraska and Ohio State is a pretty fucking big advantage compared to working with the talent at Utah State and Houston.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Machinator

[coachkiss 166]

1 minute ago, Machinator said:

I'd say Beck getting to work with the talent at Nebraska and Ohio State is a pretty fucking big advantage compared to working with the talent at Utah State and Houston.

But...aren't they playing stronger talent each week than Houston and Utah State?  So, doesn't that kind of cancel out?

[Bevo 13577]

Fuck this shit. I'm going to the Eskimo Hut.

[GW Hayduke 1953]

9 minutes ago, UT Lawnghorn said:

That's exactly what I said. Also, the most obvious option is to use the 10th assistant spot on a second DL coach who can recruit, rather htan wasting 3 spots to coach TEs and WRs. Keeping the dead weight of Mehringer and Warehime is absolutely affecting this team and the "consistency" argument is a joke.  They both had their jobs changed over the offseason.

The consistency argument isn’t a joke. It does require an acknowledgment that our oline played poorly, we upgraded our oline coaching, we were decimated by injuries, we started freshmen at RB QB RT TE, we were playing with a new offense, seniors had played under 4 different offenses, and that overhauling offensive staff would further stunt development. 

[Machinator 32099]

Just now, GW Hayduke said:

The consistency argument isn’t a joke.

It is with regard to the specific cases of Mehringer and Warehime (more so the latter). If we had done a 1-to-1 replacement of Warehime and Hand, then only the OL would have had to deal with a new coach. Instead, by keeping Warehime, now we have three position groups with new coaches - OL, TE and WR.

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13097]

7 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Fuck this shit. I'm going to the Eskimo Hut.

Don’t forget to write a review of your experience.

[Enchubben 5510]

I think the "help" Giles needs comes when we start winning games. Giles didn't all of a sudden become a crappy recruiter, and when Texas was winning 10-11 games we were still recruiting elite defensive lineman like Henry Melton, Eddie Jones, Lamaar Houston, Sam Acho, Alex Okafor, Jackson Jeffcoat, Reggie Wilson, Cedric Reed etc with Giles as the DE coach.

He may not be the preferred option when we can't sell recent success - but if and when that comes, I'd rather have the guy that can develop that talent in NFL draft picks and a great d-line. His recruiting as of now is not holding the team back; W/L's are.

As much as I question the Beck, Mehringer and Warehime hires (and did so at the time of hire), perhaps Herman is just honoring this supposed 2 year deal someone mentioned on a past page. Maybe once consistency is achieved, we can then pick and choose and replace assistants as the perfect opportunities or candidates arise.  This seems like a better strategy than firing 3 assistants one year into his stint as HC here.

[Ricky Butler 2723]

29 minutes ago, UT Lawnghorn said:

The reality is we missed out on a lot of our top targets and were able to salvage a good class late.  A guy like Ojomo won't pop up with two months to go every year. Carson and Williams are projects. We don't get Ossai if there's no coaching change, and we were fortunate Coburn went to Westfield.

You realize this is an interpretation of reality.

[GW Hayduke 1953]

6 minutes ago, Machinator said:

It is with regard to the specific cases of Mehringer and Warehime (more so the latter). If we had done a 1-to-1 replacement of Warehime and Hand, then only the OL would have had to deal with a new coach. Instead, by keeping Warehime, now we have three position groups with new coaches - OL, TE and WR.

Keeping warehime (considering the cards he was dealt last season) maintains more offensive consistency that Herman has stated he wants. Shifting coaches doesn’t result in entirely new faces who aren’t familiar with the offense or the players. The answer to a poorly performing unit isn’t always to fire the coach. 

[coachkiss 166]

2 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Surly's answer to a poorly performing unit is always to fire the coach. 

FIFY

[Dbeasy 15052]

3 hours ago, closetojumping said:

Tom Herman is yet another dumbfuck who has shown up on a bigger stage with the mistaken belief that what got him there will continue to elevate him going forward. So he brought his bros in and lived within the bubble that a pre-Del Conte regime was all to willing to accommodate.

They were utterly fucking shocked when Maryland publicly humiliated them. He was perplexed with the Horny blowback. He was surprised when players didn’t just bask in the glow of his brilliance with runny eggs and constant hazing about water consumption and just generally mistrusting them all as bitchy idiots.

Maybe he’s learned some things, but narcissists usually don’t. I look at what he did with his staff this offseason and see nothing but blind arrogance that will probably cost him his job or at least put some scars on his regime. He’s done all of this because he knows better. Warehime is loyal and Mehringer is a protege. You and I may be too stupid to understand why that’s all Herman needs while his mind handles the rest and, well, that’s our problem. 

Weren’t you just a few days ago telling the board to calm down and let the recruiting process play out? Because you sound like you’re panicking. And that’s not going to be a positive signal for this board. They can’t handle that. 

[GW Hayduke 1953]

1 minute ago, Ricky Butler said:

You realize this is an interpretation of reality.

Consciousness is a tragic misstep in our evolution.

 

[closetojumping 62740]

1 minute ago, Dbeasy said:

Weren’t you just a few days ago telling the board to calm down and let the recruiting process play out? Because you sound like you’re panicking. And that’s not going to be a positive signal for this board. They can’t handle that. 

I wrote that calmly and with a long term outlook. That’s also part of what flew by Machinator. Not everything is about a single 9 month stretch when considering the future.

1 minute ago, GW Hayduke said:

Consciousness is a tragic misstep in our evolution.

 

Do you think we should do the honorable thing and elect to stop reproducing and go out all together?

[Machinator 32099]

6 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

You realize this is an interpretation of reality.

What is your interpretation of how the DL recruiting process went down?

[Machinator 32099]

Just now, closetojumping said:

That’s also part of what flew by Machinator.

Didn't fly by me, man. I agree that this is going to be a good class overall, because although I think we underperform our potential (8 wins vs. 10-11) it might be a fringe top 10 class rather than another fantastic one like last year. I was addressing your comments on the prognosis for the program. 

[Ricky Butler 2723]

4 minutes ago, Machinator said:

What is your interpretation of how the DL recruiting process went down?

I don't have one. I'm saying, don't say, "the reality is..." and then explain away recruiting results because they don't align with your predispositions.

The truth is somewhere in the middle.

[GlenFromTheMailRoom 1612]

14 minutes ago, coachkiss said:

16 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Surly's answer to a poorly performing unit is always to fire the corch. 

FIFY

FIFY

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

50 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Fuck this shit. I'm going to the Eskimo Hut.

Need to evacuate your bowels, eh?

[UT Lawnghorn 758]

29 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

You realize this is an interpretation of reality.

 

13 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

I don't have one. I'm saying, don't say, "the reality is..." and then explain away recruiting results because they don't align with your predispositions.

The truth is somewhere in the middle.

WTF are you talking about? This has nothing to do with my predispositions. At the start of the recruiting cycle, the staff prioritized Brown, Wright, Coburn and Ossai as in-state targets.  All the evidence shows this.  The staff's visits, tweets, offers, etc.  Not to mention it was corroborated by 9.95ers, including reliable ones like TFB, CTJ and others.  

This has nothing to do with my predispositions. I don't even know what you are assuming my predisposition is in your comment.  Saying the truth is in the middle is a weak cop out by someone who has no idea about the situation.  There's no truth in the middle. Those were the staff's priority targets for in-state DL. The staff was going to miss out on 3  out of 4 of those until Sumlin was clearly going to be fired. Fast forward to this year and we are very likely to miss out on 3 out of 4 of the best DL in state this year.  

[Chopper 17236]

Damn you guys are so busy arguing over whether to fire someone you have no way to get fired you didn't even bother to look up the young woman Jordan Whittington is apparently salivating over on twitter. It's like I don't even know you people anymore. 

[TXs 226]

Herman's not turning over his offensive staff at then end of year 1. He'd be torpedoing himself by doing that (Riley would for sure use that to negative recruit us).

Most likely he's banking on more wins this season and letting Beck take another opportunity at the end of the year. That way the perception is were replacing because of success not desperation.

Edited May 4, 2018 by TXs

[Mother mopar 3319]

Take it to the football board, damn. Where's BL with the ban hammer.