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Posted
  On 5/11/2018 at 3:58 PM, closetojumping said:

I appreciate the work TFB does. I think they're the best of the $9.95ers and I'd consider subscribing when I have time for another board again.

That considered, I really don't like to see non-scientific thinking applying correlation to a disparate set of facts. It creates a narrative that isn't correct.

Mack Brown didn't go out of state in part because he woke a sleeping giant, sure, and in part because he got very lazy, very early, and harmed the program accordingly. I'll argue he was lazy-ish about his recruiting approach from the moment he realized he could fill an entire class of Texans and legacy UT people. By the time even 2005 rolled around, he'd cemented the premise that if someone wanted to come to Texas from OOS, they were going to have to recruit Texas aggressively, versus the other way around. As a result, Texas signed virtually no one from OOS for years. Mack Brown failed to exploit the national reach of the UT program out of sheer sloth and hubris, and then he bragged about it, and the press coverage rewarded his idiocy by lavishing him with praise. The program would have been stronger and deeper if Brown had taken a sweeping approach to recruiting the best players available after setting a Texas foundation in each class. Had he done so, Texas would have never run into QB, TB, WR, DL, or LB depth issues during his tenure. UT has been at or near the top in global merchandise sales and viewership from 2000 forward and Brown did little to exploit that national reach. I view it as a sin.

Now consider Tom Herman's approach. What he's doing now is nothing different in landscape view than Meyer at OSU or Florida, Saban at Bama, Fulmer at Tennessee, ND ever, Miami under Johnson, Erickson, and Davis, and particularly Bowden at FSU and Carroll at USC. Bowden and Carroll are the best analogs to me because they'd created national programs, or took over national programs, inside a recruiting hotbed. They built every class with a foundation of local talent that could compete at their level and continue to keep the program elite. Then they went out and went hunting for the best of the best at either positions of weakness within their own local realm, or simply because they could and felt they needed to in order to win titles. Herman's approach appears to be similar and I hope that continues to develop as he achieves higher levels of performance success at the helm of Texas. 

So, I agree that Strong did what he felt he had to do out of necessity. I disagree that Mack Brown stayed largely within the Texas border merely because he soundly could. He could have done more, and he didn't. I disagree that Herman is a) doing something OOS out of semi-desperate necessity and b) will change his current approach once he's in a spot to dictate his class with Texas talent alone.  If he does get lazy or myopic about his recruiting needs/reach, history dictates that we should know better, unite as recruitniks, storm the Belmont fortress, and cast him and his minions over the top of the upper westside deck. 

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I agree, Bama could not sustain their dominance without a huge influx of OOS talent each year. As rich of a territory as Texas is for recruiting, the best of the best at each position don't always live here every cycle. 

Posted (edited)

Looking at that graph, I think the labels are incorrect. Three-year win % average is labeled as % OOS recruits, and vice versa.

Edit: looks like they fixed it on the site

uiDBJDj.png

Edited by Machinator
Posted
  On 5/11/2018 at 2:02 PM, Machinator said:

TFB Open Post: http://texas.thefootballbrainiacs.com/2018/05/open-post-weekend-may-11th-13th/

  Reveal hidden contents
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Fixed the graph because I am an idiot. Disregard my stupidity and listen to me. Thank you.

uiDBJDj.png

Posted
  On 5/11/2018 at 3:58 PM, closetojumping said:

The program would have been stronger and deeper if Brown had taken a sweeping approach to recruiting the best players available after setting a Texas foundation in each class. Had he done so, Texas would have never run into QB, TB, WR, DL, or LB depth issues during his tenure. UT has been at or near the top in global merchandise sales and viewership from 2000 forward and Brown did little to exploit that national reach. I view it as a sin.

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I disagree with this. Mack was never willing to discard dead weight the way Alabama does. Sure, the weak spots in the roster were somewhat due to only recruiting Texas. However, I think a bigger issue was that we had so many players on the roster who were non-contributors. Dumping those guys and signing max classes would have surely helped.

Posted
  On 5/11/2018 at 4:23 PM, Bevo said:

I disagree with this. Mack was never willing to discard dead weight the way Alabama does. Sure, the weak spots in the roster were somewhat due to only recruiting Texas. However, I think a bigger issue was that we had so many players on the roster who were non-contributors. Dumping those guys and signing max classes would have surely helped.

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They're not mutually exclusive issues. I don't even follow your thinking. 

Posted

IT

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Posted
  On 5/11/2018 at 4:55 PM, TrojanPrincess said:

Oh please.  Everyone out here is now saying Smith is all UT.  All I provide is what we hear at the moment out here.  He loved Austin, loved the college town feel, that doesn't negate what I posted earlier, that USC was a dream school, kids say that stuff all the time, wear their team gear, then fall in love with another program.  Kids out here are falling in love with UT.  That's why there is no such thing as a lock.

the last thing I worry about is skilled player recruitment for USC,  this early in the game, as in previous years, USC always start slow to end top 5.

i have zero animosity, or ill wishes toward UT, USC will get who they're meant to get, as you will. Both programs will end with top 5 recruiting classes.

 

 

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well yeah but thats just your opinion....and stop being so reasonable and stuff man, not cool.... not cool.... SC fan... you guys just dont get it!

Posted
  On 5/11/2018 at 4:55 PM, TrojanPrincess said:

Oh please.  Everyone out here is now saying Smith is all UT.  All I provide is what we hear at the moment out here.  He loved Austin, loved the college town feel, that doesn't negate what I posted earlier, that USC was a dream school, kids say that stuff all the time, wear their team gear, then fall in love with another program.  Kids out here are falling in love with UT.  That's why there is no such thing as a lock.

the last thing I worry about is skilled player recruitment for USC,  this early in the game, as in previous years, USC always start slow to end top 5.

i have zero animosity, or ill wishes toward UT, USC will get who they're meant to get, as you will. Both programs will end with top 5 recruiting classes.

 

 

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This is not going to go well for you, madam, if you continue to take me this seriously. 

  • Haha 1
Posted
  On 5/11/2018 at 4:55 PM, TrojanPrincess said:

i have zero animosity, or ill wishes toward UT, USC will get who they're meant to get, as you will. Both programs will end with top 5 recruiting classes.

 

 

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TrojanPrincess's vagina not nearly as sandy as the rest of Surly's.  No wipes needed. 

  • Haha 1
Posted
  On 5/11/2018 at 4:33 PM, closetojumping said:

They're not mutually exclusive issues. I don't even follow your thinking. 

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Probably a better way to state it is that I partially agree with what you wrote.

Although not perfect, I think we would have been okay staying in state if Mack Brown was more willing to trim the roster. Ideally, Herman will recruit nationally to bring in elite recruits at every position and trim the roster liberally to maximize the talent under the 85 man limit.

Posted
  On 5/11/2018 at 5:13 PM, Bevo said:

Probably a better way to state it is that I partially agree with what you wrote.

Although not perfect, I think we would have been okay staying in state if Mack Brown was more willing to trim the roster. Ideally, Herman will recruit nationally to bring in elite recruits at every position and trim the roster liberally to maximize the talent under the 85 man limit.

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I am interested in seeing how Herman manages the roster in terms of attrition. It's mid-May and Surly has already identified a number of players that are potential attrition candidates. Herman's connections to other schools around the state (Texas Lutheran, Sam Houston St, Texas St, and UH) might help in finding soft landing spots for these players. Is Herman going to do it and if so, when?

Posted
  On 5/11/2018 at 4:01 PM, Vertigo said:

giphy.gif

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Not the "Charlie critics are racist" crap again...

Tom Herman has consistently engaged Texas High School coaches on a level Charlie never did or would have.  Herman has clearly shown how thinks very highly of Texas recruits.  Maybe Charlie thought the same, but he certainly didn't make it as evident as Herman.

  • Fuck You 8
Posted
  On 5/11/2018 at 4:23 PM, Bevo said:

I disagree with this. Mack was never willing to discard dead weight the way Alabama does. Sure, the weak spots in the roster were somewhat due to only recruiting Texas. However, I think a bigger issue was that we had so many players on the roster who were non-contributors. Dumping those guys and signing max classes would have surely helped.

Expand  

Since this is Surly, I DISAGREE WITH THIS!!! ... sort of.  

Mack not pushing guys out probably had a tiny bit to do with the state of the roster but really, with the kind of classes Mack was taking during the last third of his tenure here, signing a max class every year wouldn't have done a whole lot to help. Most of those classes were full of bread at the bottom already. If Mack had more space, he would've been adding more guys like he had at the bottom of those classes not the top, which basically would've resulted in getting rid of a Junior JAG and replacing him with a Freshman JAG.  I think the lack of national recruiting had much more to do with roster issues than not pushing as many guys out as he could have.  

Posted (edited)
  On 5/11/2018 at 5:27 PM, CBHorn said:

Not the "Charlie critics are racist" crap again...

Tom Herman has consistently engaged Texas High School coaches on a level Charlie never did or would have.  Herman has clearly shown how thinks very highly of Texas recruits.  Maybe Charlie thought the same, but he certainly didn't make it as evident as Herman.

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Does someone want to tell him?

I'll volunteer for this one.

JFC man. He was making a joke about the "no existing credit history" line, not saying CTJ or TFB were racist for criticizing Strong. You're the one who just started that discussion.

Edited by UT Lawnghorn
Posted
  On 5/11/2018 at 4:55 PM, TrojanPrincess said:

Oh please.  Everyone out here is now saying Smith is all UT.  All I provide is what we hear at the moment out here.  He loved Austin, loved the college town feel, that doesn't negate what I posted earlier, that USC was a dream school, kids say that stuff all the time, wear their team gear, then fall in love with another program.  Kids out here are falling in love with UT.  That's why there is no such thing as a lock.

the last thing I worry about is skilled player recruitment for USC,  this early in the game, as in previous years, USC always start slow to end top 5.

i have zero animosity, or ill wishes toward UT, USC will get who they're meant to get, as you will. Both programs will end with top 5 recruiting classes.

 

 

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Hey we like you too! Now let us have Bru and Smith please. 

Posted

The new CBs for Jake Smith, they are mostly flip picks from USC, is that correct? Sweet

 

Is he going to be our offensive savior, a missing piece, like a white 3 point shooter that can hit lights out while you're concentrating on everyone else? 

Posted (edited)
  On 5/11/2018 at 4:56 PM, Machinator said:

IT

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

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If Leal is 280 lbs.+ no way he plays DE in a 4-man front.  Another lie from bimbo.  He'll be sent with the DT's the 1st day he steps on campus, if he sticks with them.  They have told Stripling he'll play SDE as well.

Edited by Elmer_Fudd
Posted
  On 5/11/2018 at 6:24 PM, Elmer_Fudd said:

If Leal is 280 lbs.+ no way he plays DE in a 4-man front.  Another lie from bimbo.  He'll be sent with the DT's the 1st day he steps on campus, if he sticks with them.  They have told Stripling he'll play SDE as well.

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agreed. he will be a monster as a DT in a 4-3 or boundary 4i in our scheme. at DE, he is just another guy.

Posted
  On 5/11/2018 at 4:33 PM, closetojumping said:

They're not mutually exclusive issues. I don't even follow your thinking. 

Expand  

A program is going to hit on some busts in recruiting whether they are coming from in state or OOS. Mack could have mitigated on some of his busts by cleaning house every offseason like other coaches are known to do.

Posted
  On 5/11/2018 at 3:58 PM, closetojumping said:

I appreciate the work TFB does. I think they're the best of the $9.95ers and I'd consider subscribing when I have time for another board again.

That considered, I really don't like to see non-scientific thinking applying correlation to a disparate set of facts. It creates a narrative that isn't correct.

Mack Brown didn't go out of state in part because he woke a sleeping giant, sure, and in part because he got very lazy, very early, and harmed the program accordingly. I'll argue he was lazy-ish about his recruiting approach from the moment he realized he could fill an entire class of Texans and legacy UT people. By the time even 2005 rolled around, he'd cemented the premise that if someone wanted to come to Texas from OOS, they were going to have to recruit Texas aggressively, versus the other way around. As a result, Texas signed virtually no one from OOS for years. Mack Brown failed to exploit the national reach of the UT program out of sheer sloth and hubris, and then he bragged about it, and the press coverage rewarded his idiocy by lavishing him with praise. The program would have been stronger and deeper if Brown had taken a sweeping approach to recruiting the best players available after setting a Texas foundation in each class. Had he done so, Texas would have never run into QB, TB, WR, DL, or LB depth issues during his tenure. UT has been at or near the top in global merchandise sales and viewership from 2000 forward and Brown did little to exploit that national reach. I view it as a sin.

Now consider Tom Herman's approach. What he's doing now is nothing different in landscape view than Meyer at OSU or Florida, Saban at Bama, Fulmer at Tennessee, ND ever, Miami under Johnson, Erickson, and Davis, and particularly Bowden at FSU and Carroll at USC. Bowden and Carroll are the best analogs to me because they'd created national programs, or took over national programs, inside a recruiting hotbed. They built every class with a foundation of local talent that could compete at their level and continue to keep the program elite. Then they went out and went hunting for the best of the best at either positions of weakness within their own local realm, or simply because they could and felt they needed to in order to win titles. Herman's approach appears to be similar and I hope that continues to develop as he achieves higher levels of performance success at the helm of Texas. 

So, I agree that Strong did what he felt he had to do out of necessity. I disagree that Mack Brown stayed largely within the Texas border merely because he soundly could. He could have done more, and he didn't. I disagree that Herman is a) doing something OOS out of semi-desperate necessity and b) will change his current approach once he's in a spot to dictate his class with Texas talent alone.  If he does get lazy or myopic about his recruiting needs/reach, history dictates that we should know better, unite as recruitniks, storm the Belmont fortress, and cast him and his minions over the top of the upper westside deck. 

Expand  

And as I put in the article, there are plenty of other major variables in this. I didn't say there was a causation. I just said there is a correlation and that it's interesting. Also I know if Brown was being lazy recruiting back in 2002-2007.

Posted
  On 5/11/2018 at 6:42 PM, TrojanPrincess said:

Who do you want respect from?  Frankly, you won't get it from the simple minded, uninformed fans of other programs with no sense of history and tradition, and what that means.

You've always had it from fellow Blue Blood (except maybe the Okies) programs that are smart enough to know that CFB success is cyclical, but the blue bloods have an almost guaranteed chance to come back to championship level.

How did we treat the Texas fans and players in L.A.?  With respect, because we know it's just a matter of time before Texas is Texas again.

wouldn't give the clowns another thought.

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I meant that I respect how you handle a loss. 

Posted
  On 5/11/2018 at 6:47 PM, Ricky Butler said:

I bet OU is going to get annoyed once they convince kids to leave Cali, but then they end up picking UT because Austin feels like less of a culture shock.

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OU has always drawn from the part of California - like the Fresno area, referred to as "Fresneck" or guys with character issues.  Parts of California no one wants to live.

You'll be competing directly with us...smart kids that want a good education and a class program.  Okies lose on both.

 

  • Like 5
Posted
  On 5/11/2018 at 6:37 PM, GlenFromTheMailRoom said:

There should be some type of friendly wager between @closetojumping and @TrojanPrincess for Texas/USC .   Someone has to use the other school's avatar or something.

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I like where your heads at here. @TrojanPrincess can write a board post in recruiting forum proclaiming my wisdom, purported sexual prowess, magnanimity in wealth, and good looks if USC loses. If Texas loses, I'll pose pics of me, topless, riding off on Traveler just before the cops arrested me. 

  • Haha 1
Posted
  On 5/11/2018 at 6:54 PM, closetojumping said:

I like where your heads at here. @TrojanPrincess can write a board post in recruiting forum proclaiming my wisdom, purported sexual prowess, magnanimity in wealth, and good looks if USC loses. If Texas loses, I'll pose pics of me, topless, riding off on Traveler just before the cops arrested me. 

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I've lied and made those same proclamations before, to a few past loves.  Words are empty, darling!  Lol.

  • Like 1
Posted
  On 5/11/2018 at 6:53 PM, TrojanPrincess said:

OU has always drawn from the part of California - like the Fresno area, referred to as "Fresneck" or guys with character issues.  Parts of California no one wants to live.

You'll be competing directly with us...smart kids that want a good education and a class program.  Okies lose on both.

 

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I'm thinking of SoCal kids. I was mentioning it because someone posted a link for Stephon Wright, and he has USC and OU as likely destinations.

Posted
  On 5/11/2018 at 6:56 PM, billfromlaketravis said:

Traveler should come down to Austin. It would be fun. 

USC please beat Stanford to give our game the attention it deserves. 

In the same vein, we better beat Maryland. 

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With no QB distinguishing himself for the starting QB job, and all hopes hanging on a true freshman that requalified from the 2019 class to 2018 to forego his senior year at Mater Dei, to come in as the savior in June?  We may lose to both Stanford and UT.

Posted (edited)
  On 5/11/2018 at 6:57 PM, TrojanPrincess said:

I've lied and made those same proclamations before, to a few past loves.  Words are empty, darling!  Lol.

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Then put your purse down and put the money on the table.  Anonymity is your friend here.  Otherwise, half the demented fucks that post here would have been in jail a long time ago.

Edited by GlenFromTheMailRoom
Posted (edited)
  On 5/11/2018 at 7:09 PM, TrojanPrincess said:

I'm not stupid, see my post above.  

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At least you're a realist.  Which is why most of us respect your opinions.  You have a seat in the pantheon of posters from other schools that don't get random scat gifs sent to them.

and changing avatars is playing with internet dollars.  

Edited by GlenFromTheMailRoom
Posted
  On 5/11/2018 at 7:06 PM, TrojanPrincess said:

With no QB distinguishing himself for the starting QB job, and all hopes hanging on a true freshman that requalified from the 2019 class to 2018 to forego his senior year at Mater Dei, to come in as the savior in June?  We may lose to both Stanford and UT.

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I disagree.

 

You are going to get skullfucked by both.

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