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Texas recruiting notes 2019

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closetojumping
closetojumping

There's more than just 2019 stuff in this update, but I'm not being paid to post, so I'm dumping it all here and you guys can do with it/disseminate it/ignore it as you like. Regarding the UA guy

Carl Winslow
Carl Winslow

word 😂 brooks not being a take clemson starting rb pistol whipped & robbed his own teammate he lead clemson to a national championship & 3 playoff appearances recruit to wi

RadiologyHorn
RadiologyHorn

Now Mpagi is better than Leal???!???    Guys tell me you’re trolling. Please tell me this isn’t real. I feel like I’m in a Seinfeld bizarro world episode. I can’t take this shit anymore. Whe

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 15235

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, TXpride said:

This. Jettison Meh and  Warehime, move Beck to WR and Meekins back to TE, and hire a competent OC and a Dline coach that can recruit.

The OC is Herman, Beck is fine at QB. If you think Samples can handle the WR job, give it to him, move Meekins back to TE and go hire a 2nd DL coach.

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UncleBuck

UncleBuck 6455

Posted
Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, BrazilHorn said:

The whole "kids weren't born during the last championship run" storyline is played out. How is that any different than the 2000's run? Texas hadn't done much of anything in the 80's & 90's at all and yet somehow strung together a really good run of football with kids that weren't born at the last championship and had lived through some poor UT teams.

Herman needs to have at least 8 wins this year and to show some material progress. If the O still absolutely sucks balls and if he and the staff sleepwalk on teams they feel they should beat (Maryland/Tech etc) then recruiting will have the wheels come off on the offensive side of the ball.

It's not played out when you're trying to convince kids to come to Texas, to the Big 12, to a program that's not been very good for quite some time, who isn't going to allow you to take the field in 27 different sparkly uniform combinations over the extent of your career. 

 

But like you said, there was the 2000s run. It was good recruiting + winning. That's the same thing that has to happen here now. Then maybe you add 2005 etc... to the mix. 

Edited by UncleBuck
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BrazilHorn

BrazilHorn 6852

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, UncleBuck said:

It's not played out when you're trying to convince kids to come to Texas, to the Big 12, to a program that's not been very good for quite some time, who isn't going to allow you to take the field in 27 different sparkly uniform combinations over the extent of your career. 

 

But like you said, there was the 2000s run. It was good recruiting + winning. That's the same thing that has to happen here now. Then maybe you add 2005 etc... to the mix. 

I am just saying it ignores the exact same situation that had happened prior to start the 2000s. UT hadn't won a MNC in 30 odd years.

Maybe not quite the exact same as Mackovic had some success on field unlike Strong/end of tenure FUPM but still it had been a long time since UT was relevant.

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UncleBuck

UncleBuck 6455

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, BrazilHorn said:

I am just saying it ignores the exact same situation that had happened prior to start the 2000s. UT hadn't won a MNC in 30 odd years.

Maybe not quite the exact same as Mackovic had some success on field unlike Strong/end of tenure FUPM but still it had been a long time since UT was relevant.

I gotcha. I just don't think it resonates with kids these days to say, "We did win the National Championship in two thousand and fi.... wow has it really been 13 years? Yah, but anyway, we did do that, so you're coming to a school with tradition.", when there's nothing else to couple it with besides "Have some faith in us." It's gunna be easier to talk about 2005 etc... when you're winning games. They just gotta win now. Please God. 

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ousux

ousux 5639

Posted
Posted
Here's my story on De'Gabriel Floyd's "Austin Family." Enjoy.

https://texas.thefootballbrainiacs.com/2018/08/meet-degabriel-floyds-austin-family/

Awesome story, but the last sentence with "former Lonhorn player Gary Johnson" made my heart skip a beat until I realized he will be by the time Floyd hits campus. Still kinda sucks though..

 

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ousux

ousux 5639

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I gotcha. I just don't think it resonates with kids these days to say, "We did win the National Championship in two thousand and fi.... wow has it really been 13 years? Yah, but anyway, we did do that, so you're coming to a school with tradition.", when there's nothing else to couple it with besides "Have some faith in us." It's gunna be easier to talk about 2005 etc... when you're winning games. They just gotta win now. Please God. 
But it really don't make a shit, look at our #3 class last year after nearly a decade of mediocrity, and aggy this year likely pulling in a top 5 class in spite of nobody alive (or with their full memory still intact) with first hand knowledge their last natty, and that is the only somewhat real thing they can hang their hat on.

But yeah, start winning and things will get even easier on the recruiting trail.
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UncleBuck

UncleBuck 6455

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, ousux said:

But it really don't make a shit, look at our #3 class last year after nearly a decade of mediocrity, and aggy this year likely pulling in a top 5 class in spite of nobody alive (or with their full memory still intact) with first hand knowledge their last natty, and that is the only somewhat real thing they can hang their hat on.

But yeah, start winning and things will get even easier on the recruiting trail.

Yah, last year's Herman and this year's Fisher, coming in guns blazing in their first full recruiting cycles. Selling their hope and change. Whether they were good in 2005 didn't matter last year or this year, because neither program has been in the national conversation for quite a a while now when it comes to contending and winning. Advantage Aggy has is actually putting a decent amount of butts in the NFL in the early rounds, & SECSEC. A big advantage IMO, that only got bigger with Jimbruh being able to show his recent record (Hey let's just ignore last year, Kids). Makes winning all that more important, and the wins should be a bit easier to come by in the Big12 vs. SEC.

 

 

Edited by UncleBuck
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Pato del Muerto

Pato del Muerto 53548

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, UncleBuck said:

I gotcha. I just don't think it resonates with kids these days to say, "We did win the National Championship in two thousand and fi.... wow has it really been 13 years? Yah, but anyway, we did do that, so you're coming to a school with tradition.", when there's nothing else to couple it with besides "Have some faith in us." It's gunna be easier to talk about 2005 etc... when you're winning games. They just gotta win now. Please God. 

The number of teams that can claim a more recent title is 7.  Bama, FSU, tosu, Clemson, auburn, Florida, LSU. 

Though to be fair, Florida and LSU feel like a long time ago. 

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UncleBuck

UncleBuck 6455

Posted
Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

The number of teams that can claim a more recent title is 7.  Bama, FSU, tosu, Clemson, auburn, Florida, LSU. 

Though to be fair, Florida and LSU feel like a long time ago. 

Yes, and Fla and LSU have underachieved recently, and it has shown up in their recruiting. 

Edited by UncleBuck
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UncleBuck

UncleBuck 6455

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

If you think underachieving on the field is the "struggling" that LSU has experiencing lately in regards to their recruiting then you are fucking high. 

For LSU to finish outside of the top 15 in ANY recruiting ranking poll last year isn't "only" on O's goofy ass. Five seasons of finishing tied for third or lower in your conference, I don't care if it's the SEC or not, isn't going to help anyone. 

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satyanash

satyanash 15638

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, UncleBuck said:

Yes, and Fla and LSU have underachieved recently, and it has shown up in their recruiting. 

Florida is in a similar position to us - a lot of their posters are saying the same 'Win and our recruiting struggles go away' line. Like for us, it's also an oversimplification, and Mullen will likely have to make some tough decisions re: his staff.

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UncleBuck

UncleBuck 6455

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, satyanash said:

Florida is in a similar position to us - a lot of their posters are saying the same 'Win and our recruiting struggles go away' line. Like for us, it's also an oversimplification, and Mullen will likely have to make some tough decisions re: his staff.

That is true, but as I hinted at before, you don't always have to have a stellar staff across the whole board when you're pulling wins. 9-10 wins last year would be helping Giles and Meh this year. I think Meh's the easier staff member to throw an "Adios!" to, with Giles being a big plus at, you know, actually coaching. But I'm not opposed to change.

Edited by UncleBuck
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UncleBuck

UncleBuck 6455

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, elguapo said:

Winning 9+ games this season will not change the fact that OU is and has been kicking our ass in DL recruiting and will continue to do so as long as Giles is our primary DL recruiter.

No, but it'll help it be a less of an ass kicking, and I think Giles can actually coach-up whatever talent they do get.

 

Still, like I say, not opposed to change there if it has to happen.

Edited by UncleBuck
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closetojumping

closetojumping 65467

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, UncleBuck said:

For LSU to finish outside of the top 15 in ANY recruiting ranking poll last year isn't "only" on O's goofy ass. Five seasons of finishing tied for third or lower in your conference, I don't care if it's the SEC or not, isn't going to help anyone. 

Wrong. LSU is in a hyper-competitive footprint under attack from all sides. There is no faith in Orgeron from the HS coaching ranks and alums are not going to support a lame duck, especially in a broke ass place like Louisiana. He's struggling to recruit top 5 classes because he's not supported and he was a bad hire. A supported HC at LSU gets damn near everybody they want in Louisiana and winning is secondary. For example, Miles was supported by the HS coaches all the way out the door. Orgeron is going to end up burning that place to the ground before they can afford his buyout. 

You're arguing that "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing" in the one arena in which that isn't necessarily true. Some programs can recruit well with a competent staff no matter what the recent history of that place is - USC, Notre Dame, Texas, etc., and some amazing recruiting staffs can recruit lights out at a dry well of CFB - see Miami under Schnellenberger and Johnson, FSU under early days of Bowden, Oregon under Kelly or Cristobal (yes, there's cheating at these places too, but that's not the primary driver for any of their successes). Some schools cheat their asses off and defy their lot in the landscape and they get busted and sent to the back of the line - see Ole Miss, Baylor (Rape Factory), SMU (Pony Express), North Carolina (Butch Davis football). None of these programs have won first and then crushed it in recruiting. They've gone hand in hand. 

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ousux

ousux 5639

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Posted

Mehringer can go, I won't shed a tear...but if Giles is replaced it better be with someone who is a +recruiter and coach, not the Terry Price types who can recruit but underachieve when it comes to getting the most out of DL recruits.

 

 

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elguapo

elguapo 4620

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Posted

Giles ability to coach-up talent has been severely overblown on this board by those trying to defend his recruiting.  IMO our DL improvement last season was largely due to talent gaining experience and scheme.  Giles is an above average developer of talent but at Texas we should be able to hire a DL coach who excels in both areas  I don't understand this idea that we should hire a special DL recruiting coach to cover up Giles' shortcomings, we should be maximizing all of our available resources.

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golfclap

golfclap 6903

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Posted
11 minutes ago, satyanash said:

Florida is in a similar position to us - a lot of their posters are saying the same 'Win and our recruiting struggles go away' line. Like for us, it's also an oversimplification, and Mullen will likely have to make some tough decisions re: his staff.

Sure. Except for the part where Herman and staff followed their good transition class with a #3 class loaded with talent -- while Florida kids appear to be highly allergic to Mullen and his staff, who spent a lot of time and effort recruiting California when the Florida kids went cold to no avail instead of working to get back in with the Florida kids. Mullen also lost most of the best players in the current class via decommit including a 5 star, 5 4stars, and 3 3 stars (including Marcus Tillman and Andrew Coker).  A top 3 class and a borderline top 25 class is basically the same situation. 

 

 

 

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closetojumping

closetojumping 65467

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, satyanash said:

Florida is in a similar position to us - a lot of their posters are saying the same 'Win and our recruiting struggles go away' line. Like for us, it's also an oversimplification, and Mullen will likely have to make some tough decisions re: his staff.

I don't think Florida and Texas are in very similar spots at the moment. Mullen hasn't had his first season at Florida and they love him there, yet his recruiting is lagging. He's got a weak recruiting staff irrespective of on-field performance. He'll also recruit to his liking and that won't always mash up with the rankings, so the rankings can be deceptive when following a coach like that.

Herman has some lights out recruiters on his staff to go with his 2-3 duds. He had a bizarre headscratcher of a first season. Mullen's lot in the rankings may not change and we don't know yet if that will matter. Herman's got a good crew of evaluators, a mixed bag of developers, and a mixed bag of recruiters. It's unclear what in the fuck is in store for Texas looking forward, 9 wins or not. That said, there is no excuse for Texas not finishing every year with at least a top 10 recruiting class and top 5 finishes should be the expectation. Transition classes excluded, especially with the new early signing period.

One huge mitigation for mediocre coaching is exceptional recruiting, and that should never falter at Texas. Mehringer would be irrelevant if we were landing every WR target we wanted. That isn't happening, and it matters. Getting beat on top targets in the trenches is a dangerous game that requires nearly flawless second level evaluations and excellent development. OU is stockpiling in the trenches. Being weak there on the recruiting front adds wild beta to the future against them, and frankly, it's unnecessary. 

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UncleBuck

UncleBuck 6455

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

Wrong. LSU is in a hyper-competitive footprint under attack from all sides. There is no faith in Orgeron from the HS coaching ranks and alums are not going to support a lame duck, especially in a broke ass place like Louisiana. He's struggling to recruit top 5 classes because he's not supported and he was a bad hire. A supported HC at LSU gets damn near everybody they want in Louisiana and winning is secondary. For example, Miles was supported by the HS coaches all the way out the door. Orgeron is going to end up burning that place to the ground before they can afford his buyout. 

You're arguing that "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing" in the one arena in which that isn't necessarily true. Some programs can recruit well with a competent staff no matter what the recent history of that place is - USC, Notre Dame, Texas, etc., and some amazing recruiting staffs can recruit lights out at a dry well of CFB - see Miami under Schnellenberger and Johnson, FSU under early days of Bowden, Oregon under Kelly or Cristobal (yes, there's cheating at these places too, but that's not the primary driver for any of their successes). Some schools cheat their asses off and defy their lot in the landscape and they get busted and sent to the back of the line - see Ole Miss, Baylor (Rape Factory), SMU (Pony Express), North Carolina (Butch Davis football). None of these programs have won first and then crushed it in recruiting. They've gone hand in hand. 

I'll take your word for it on LSU, but some of you are getting me twisted on my talking points about the 2005 Nat'l championship when it comes to recruiting.

 

Herman finished with a top 3 class last year, crushed it. Jimbruh will finish with a damn fine class this year, doing pretty well, all without winning first, obviously.  Herman will have a top 10 class this year. But to consistently compete for those top 3 finishes in recruiting, wins will have to come sooner or later, and what you did 13 years ago that was followed by years of suck isn't going to help you at all. It's easier to get a kid to buy into whatever your winning tradition was when it's thrown on top of a lot of current winning.

 

No big deal, all good points.

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UncleBuck

UncleBuck 6455

Posted
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, elguapo said:

Giles ability to coach-up talent has been severely overblown on this board by those trying to defend his recruiting.  IMO our DL improvement last season was largely due to talent gaining experience and scheme.  Giles is an above average developer of talent but at Texas we should be able to hire a DL coach who excels in both areas  I don't understand this idea that we should hire a special DL recruiting coach to cover up Giles' shortcomings, we should be maximizing all of our available resources.

Well number 1, I'm not defending his recruiting, so that doesn't apply to me. I think he's an above average developer of talent.

 

Number 2, you also believe he's an above average developer of talent

 

Number 3, name me who that excellent recruiter + DL coach is, and let's hope they get him.

 

Until then, I'll be angry at Giles' recruiting, but happy with his coaching. Not gunna call for his canning just yet.

Edited by UncleBuck
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closetojumping

closetojumping 65467

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, UncleBuck said:

Well number 1, I'm not defending his recruiting, so that doesn't apply to me. I think he's an above average developer of talent.

 

Number 2, you also believe he's an above average developer of talent

 

Number 3, name me who that excellent recruiter + DL coach is, and let's hope they get him.

 

Until then, I'll be angry at Giles' recruiting, but happy with his coaching. Not gunna call for his canning just yet.

There's some other stuff I'm writing right now as several thread starters so I am not really bored enough for a big Giles get down right now, but I do want to point out that you're playing with the false choice premise. We don't have to accept mediocre recruiting for decent development or vice versa. Frankly, what should have already happened is they brought in a rainmaking DT coach, and there are plenty out there and many emerge young in this vein for CFB staffs, and Giles should be coaching DEs, evaluating recruiting targets, and supervising the DL overall while the DT coach works the recruits.

Herman didn't do that though. He didn't do that because he couldn't pawn Mehringer and Warehime off onto anyone else's staff, which he attempted, so he kept them and firmed up his offensive woes by adding Hand. He chose what he perceived to be the least of the evils - keep the staff in tact, help the offense, and deal with weakness at DL recruiting. Frankly, they've decided that they can help on the DL late in the cycle and with late developers that non-Giles staff members can bear hug into signatures. It worked last year. Let's see if it happens again. It fucking sucks missing on top guys though, and that's trending not only for 2019 but 2020 as well. 

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UncleBuck

UncleBuck 6455

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16 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

Frankly, what should have already happened is they brought in a rainmaking DT coach, and there are plenty out there and many emerge young in this vein for CFB staffs, and Giles should be coaching DEs, evaluating recruiting targets, and supervising the DL overall while the DT coach works the recruits.

 

I'm all about this. 

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SydneyCarton

SydneyCarton 49512

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Orange&White said:

Except that last year was Herman's first full recruiting cycle. This is Jimbo's transition year. 

Uh. Wrong buddy. Jimbo Fisher's transition year was last year. This is his first full cycle. Tell the truth, do you understand what Transition Year means, or are you just confused as to what year it is?

 

Head coach at Texas A&M[edit]

On December 1, 2017, Fisher resigned as the head coach at Florida State University to accept the same job at Texas A&M University.[1

 

 

Texas[edit]

On November 27, 2016, Herman was hired as the new head coach at Texas.

Edited by SydneyCarton
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UTEX90

UTEX90 589

Posted
Posted

I think OU's success in recruiting right now is a reflection of recent winning.    The ags are going to get recruits until they lose in year 3 of Jimbo's reign.  He will get a pass the first two years because of their schedules but if he doesn't win in year 3 the recruits are going to not buy the bullshit he is selling this year and will be selling next year.  That is not to say we should sit idly by and not fight for recruits like Leal.   Also keep in mind we have at least 10 -12 more spots to fill.  Let's see who we get and who the ags and OU keep come signing day.  I'm not convinced things are a bleak as some.

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Ricky Butler

Ricky Butler 2809

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

Herman didn't do that though. He didn't do that because he couldn't pawn Mehringer and Warehime off onto anyone else's staff, which he attempted, so he kept them and firmed up his offensive woes by adding Hand. He chose what he perceived to be the least of the evils - keep the staff in tact, help the offense, and deal with weakness at DL recruiting. Frankly, they've decided that they can help on the DL late in the cycle and with late developers that non-Giles staff members can bear hug into signatures. It worked last year. Let's see if it happens again. It fucking sucks missing on top guys though, and that's trending not only for 2019 but 2020 as well. 

Do you feel like Herman gets the current landscape better than Brown and Strong? I see a lot of good organizational signs, but I totally agree with these staff criticisms. I just think for a young coach, they are totally forgivable mistakes in part because they can be fixed so easily. If Herman doesn't fix them next offseason, I'll have a bigger beef. But some on the board read your info and think responding like Veruca Salt is some sort of insightful analysis. So in that spirit, I think Herman should correct all his mistakes and maximize ever inch of the program because I have high standards.

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closetojumping

closetojumping 65467

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

Do you feel like Herman gets the current landscape better than Brown and Strong? I see a lot of good organizational signs, but I totally agree with these staff criticisms. I just think for a young coach, they are totally forgivable mistakes in part because they can be fixed so easily. If Herman doesn't fix them next offseason, I'll have a bigger beef. But some on the board read your info and think responding like Veruca Salt is some sort of insightful analysis. So in that spirit, I think Herman should correct all his mistakes and maximize ever inch of the program because I have high standards.

Multiple data points from various conversations have me believing that Herman is well aware of where things sit. The Maryland game was a splash of ice cold water with a butterfly effect. Mehringer and Warehime supposedly looked around and found no interest in the offseason. I am not a journalist and I cannot verify that with statements from witnesses. But that's the scuttlebutt out there. Those two didn't do that because they were leveraging big performances. They were asked. That didn't pan out, which is an obvious indictment to anyone looking, including Herman. Herman then took steps to mitigate both of their impacts on the program while still being employed. 

Herman did exactly what Charlie Strong did walking through the doors at Belmont - he underestimated the size and scope of his task and the organization he'd be leading. Unlike Strong, Herman has a strong administrative side to him coupled with deep insecurities about being perceived as a junior-level fool, so he can, in part, organize his way out of the fuck up and likely has his hair on fire to do so. If he's aware of the dead weight on staff, and I think he is, then he knows he HAS to upgrade to meet the requirements of this job. If Texas wins this year, I don't think it will be carnage on the staff via terminations. I think it will wind up being a case of those guys getting hired at Directional U for perceived promotions.

This isn't UH. Herman was at UT and Ohio State before, sure, but there is a difference when it comes to being the guy in the chair. Until you have had the buck stop with you with a $100million+ org and a public spotlight on said org, it's hard to truly appreciate what it all means. It is a lonely fucking place, even when people are honestly around you to help (shit, it's lonely on some level being the guy at tiny orgs even when things are going well.) When some of those people around you aren't really there to help, or they're incapable of helping because you've peter principled them, you have to cut ties in some form or you risk losing it all and bringing everyone down with you.

Some guys cut out weakness ruthlessly, and other guys try to find soft landings. You can look at Saban and Meyer as two different guys when it comes to this, and sometimes the sad ramifications for acting like the latter and letting loyalty go too far. I'm on the side of "fire Urban, he lied and covered up for a wifebeater, fuck them both", but I do get the sentiment behind his ill-fated actions. I think Herman is more like Meyer here, as evidenced by behaviors with his bros so far, but he's capable of developing into the former if he feels like he's getting torched on this here. 

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Stampeder

Stampeder 92

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, Butch Had Not said:

I'm hoping CDC is paying attention and understands what needs to be done with this staff and provides a voice of reason to Herman. 

I'm with you on that.  He doesn't seem the type to settle, so hopefully post-season there's that annual review of all things football and the weak spots addressed in short order..

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