2019 ATH Bru McCoy

[TKthunder2 5059]

34 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

3rd School??   Guess you're counting decommit from aggy.

Won't be popular on this thread, but Tate may have a better case than Bru to get his waiver granted by the NCAA since Tate was eligible to graduate this May and already spent two years in Columbus.

I disagree.  The fact that he was eligible to graduate in May means he could have completed his degree and transferred immediately.  The fact that he bailed on his final semester before getting his degree isn’t a point in his favor and forces the NCAA to make a ruling.  The NCAA doesn’t want to encourage the student athletes to not get their degrees and by giving Tate the waiver that exactly what they’d be doing and all of this could have been avoided if he just finished his degree like the vast majority of other student athletes that finish their degrees and become graduate transfers (like Shane).

Bru’s decision doesn’t negatively impact his status as a student and Tate’s does.  I think the NCAA is going to look more favorably on Bru especially after the quick coaching change and doesn’t want to look hypocritical when comparing students to coaches.

[LTtxfan 49989]

1 hour ago, TKthunder2 said:

I disagree.  The fact that he was eligible to graduate in May means he could have completed his degree and transferred immediately.  The fact that he bailed on his final semester before getting his degree isn’t a point in his favor and forces the NCAA to make a ruling.  The NCAA doesn’t want to encourage the student athletes to not get their degrees and by giving Tate the waiver that exactly what they’d be doing and all of this could have been avoided if he just finished his degree like the vast majority of other student athletes that finish their degrees and become graduate transfers (like Shane).

Bru’s decision doesn’t negatively impact his status as a student and Tate’s does.  I think the NCAA is going to look more favorably on Bru especially after the quick coaching change and doesn’t want to look hypocritical when comparing students to coaches.

Hey I hope Bru gets waiver...

But..... Bru is a 1st year college student, still has up to 4yrs of playing time ahead and has not even completed a semester of college.

It's much easier for the NCAA to justify a denial of Bru's request than Tate's because of Tate's two years already spent in the ohio state football program.  

 

[jofus 2269]

the problem with approving Bru is the precedent it sets. What’s the point of NSD1 if players can just immediately transfer out? Sure, he felt lied to, but this time of year is when coaching turnover happens. This would start happening all the time unless Bru can come up with a non-generic excuse that the NCAA can use to say this isn’t setting a precedent. 

[cochamps 1885]

Bru's experience is why waivers are being given.  He was misled, and the coach is allowed to take off for a pile of money.

It's why SC did not contest his transfer and why he should get a waiver.  This should not be one-sided.

 

 

[Napoleon 8828]

1 hour ago, jofus said:

the problem with approving Bru is the precedent it sets. What’s the point of NSD1 if players can just immediately transfer out? Sure, he felt lied to, but this time of year is when coaching turnover happens. This would start happening all the time unless Bru can come up with a non-generic excuse that the NCAA can use to say this isn’t setting a precedent. 

If anything, Bru's case will prevent colleges from "hiring" a mercenary coach for a month just to seal a signature before that coach then takes off for another job without ever having coached a single practice.

[BigHorn'13 3494]

15 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Hey I hope Bru gets waiver...

But..... Bru is a 1st year college student, still has up to 4yrs of playing time ahead and has not even completed a semester of college.

It's much easier for the NCAA to justify a denial of Bru's request than Tate's because of Tate's two years already spent in the ohio state football program.  

 

You're completely ignoring the point he's making. Tater is transferring without a degree. Doesn't matter how long he was there or how close he is to graduating. Technically (as the wording currently reads,) Bru is a transfer, too. 

Now, where the argument for Bru is is that he committed (possibly signed idk) when Kliff was hired and was sold a bill of goods on his role with the program. Once he realized the facade, he wanted out and, by all accounts, didn't hesitate and wanted to choose his 'runner up' school. No precedent but the circumstances I think should win this one over. 

Tater being the spoiled little Bieber wannabe he is jumped the gun by a semester and is hiring an attorney to create a facade of deception in not anticipating meyer's departure, when anyone who half ass pays attention to CFB knew he was gone. And even if he didn't know, it's still the same fucking staff minus the head man. So no, his case isn't stronger. He just wanted to transfer as soon as possible so he could be enrolled at da U and get started learning plays. 

And that's fine by me and is probably the smarter move in knowing that the NCAA won't do shit about it. I guess the biggest difference is one is slimy and trying to bend the rules utilizing his privileged upbringing and the other was lied to, realized it quickly, and got out as soon as possible. 

Completely different. 

[BigHorn'13 3494]

1 hour ago, jofus said:

the problem with approving Bru is the precedent it sets. What’s the point of NSD1 if players can just immediately transfer out? Sure, he felt lied to, but this time of year is when coaching turnover happens. This would start happening all the time unless Bru can come up with a non-generic excuse that the NCAA can use to say this isn’t setting a precedent. 

I mean, sure... Position coaches make lateral moves or move on to bigger things. Coordinators are much of the same. But those guys recruit the player for at least a year, if not more, to their program. Remember it's not just Kliff, Tee Martin plays a role in all this as well. You can't tell me if you're a recruit and your recruiter from your dream school has been recruiting you for the past couple of years but leaves, then a new guy comes in who's one of the hottest offensive minds out there gets hired, tells you how much better things are going to be, then splits not even a month later after you bought what he sold, and you're supposed to chalk it up as a life lesson or some such? 

Fuck that noise. I think a little more leeway should be given to teenagers being deceived by millionaires. 

[Chuckie Finster 23038]

the problem with approving Bru is the precedent it sets. What’s the point of NSD1 if players can just immediately transfer out? Sure, he felt lied to, but this time of year is when coaching turnover happens. This would start happening all the time unless Bru can come up with a non-generic excuse that the NCAA can use to say this isn’t setting a precedent. 

What’s so bad about establishing this as precedent? If he’s able to make to another school in time to be a full time student in the same semester, why does it matter? He hasn’t lost any time towards his degree and he never even put pads on for USC. Seems like forcing him to sit out is just enforcing a rule for rule’s sake, without any actual consideration for what the rule was meant to prevent.

[LTtxfan 49989]

2 hours ago, jofus said:

the problem with approving Bru is the precedent it sets. What’s the point of NSD1 if players can just immediately transfer out? Sure, he felt lied to, but this time of year is when coaching turnover happens. This would start happening all the time unless Bru can come up with a non-generic excuse that the NCAA can use to say this isn’t setting a precedent. 

Spot On^^^

Again I hope Bru gets waiver approval, but believe Tate's waiver request is easier for the NCAA to approve.

I remember Patterson thought Freshmen should not be allowed to enter the transfer portal...... something has to be done to avoid total free agency in CFB.

Edited February 10, 2019 by LTtxfan

[Stampeder 92]

The NCAA should just approve a one-time transfer, no questions and no limitations, per student athlete and call it good.  

[hookem48 4839]

59 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

You're completely ignoring the point he's making. Tater is transferring without a degree. Doesn't matter how long he was there or how close he is to graduating. Technically (as the wording currently reads,) Bru is a transfer, too. 

Now, where the argument for Bru is is that he committed (possibly signed idk) when Kliff was hired and was sold a bill of goods on his role with the program. Once he realized the facade, he wanted out and, by all accounts, didn't hesitate and wanted to choose his 'runner up' school. No precedent but the circumstances I think should win this one over. 

Tater being the spoiled little Bieber wannabe he is jumped the gun by a semester and is hiring an attorney to create a facade of deception in not anticipating meyer's departure, when anyone who half ass pays attention to CFB knew he was gone. And even if he didn't know, it's still the same fucking staff minus the head man. So no, his case isn't stronger. He just wanted to transfer as soon as possible so he could be enrolled at da U and get started learning plays. 

And that's fine by me and is probably the smarter move in knowing that the NCAA won't do shit about it. I guess the biggest difference is one is slimy and trying to bend the rules utilizing his privileged upbringing and the other was lied to, realized it quickly, and got out as soon as possible. 

Completely different. 

Isn't SC's staff the fucking same minus the offensive coord?

[tittiesandbeer 85]

11 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Spot On^^^

Again I hope Bru gets waiver approval, but believe Tate's waiver request is easier for the NCAA to approve.

I remember Patterson thought Freshmen should not be allowed to enter the transfer portal...... something has to be done to avoid total free agency in CFB.

For comparisons sake, Tate's situation is your run of the mill transfer.  A kid attends a school 2 to 3 years, doesn't see the field, roster/personnel changes, becomes unhappy and wants to bolt.

Bru on the other hand never stepped on a practice field, didnt know where he was on the depth chart, was probably lied to several different ways.  There's an argument that can be made for Bru that his decision to transfer isnt even driven by football.

[markstanco 12786]

something has to be done to avoid total free agency in CFB.

Approving Bru and Tate will help lead to that very thing. It's going to be hard to put that jeanie back in the bottle.

Imagine if Bru would have done this very thing but went to Norman instead. The opinions on this would be different.

[texifornia 59010]

13 minutes ago, hookem48 said:

Isn't SC's staff the fucking same minus the offensive coord?

Yeah, but they've flipped through two of them - his primary recruiter (Tee Martin) and then "the guy who's going to turn the whole ship around!" (Kliff)

[hookem48 4839]

3 minutes ago, texifornia said:

Yeah, but they've flipped through two of them - his primary recruiter (Tee Martin) and then "the guy who's going to turn the whole ship around!" (Kliff)

obviously we all want Bru to get the waiver but comparing losing a multiple time championship head coach you've had for 2 years to a coord who was a failed head coach and has never even coached you for one practice is retarded and Martin was gone before he signed so that's not even in the discussion.

[EastTexan 672]

Why are we debating what the ncaa will do? We don't know and ncaa sure as hell doesnt know.

Edited February 10, 2019 by EastTexan

[Vertigo 20492]

26 minutes ago, markstanco said:

 

 

Approving Bru and Tate will help lead to that very thing. It's going to be hard to put that jeanie back in the bottle.

Imagine if Bru would have done this very thing but went to Norman instead. The opinions on this would be different.

 

Long term, my hope is that he doesnt get the waiver. The immediately gratified fan in me wants him to get it.

There has to be some sort of protection for schools for coaching turnover because it happens at every school and there is nothing any school can do about it. The nature of that turnover is different if the staff is being deceptive. For what it’s worth I dont believe Helton was being overtly deceptive. I think he was just naive that Kliff was going to actually coach there on his sinking ship as the hottest coaching free agent on the market. However, I have no doubts that Kliff lied to the McCoys when he wasn’t 100% solid in staying.

[LTtxfan 49989]

45 minutes ago, markstanco said:

Approving Bru and Tate will help lead to that very thing. It's going to be hard to put that jeanie back in the bottle.

Imagine if Bru would have done this very thing but went to Norman instead. The opinions on this would be different.

Agree with statement that Horns Fans (me)  are biased on Bru's situation. 

Really enjoying the open discussion on waiver requests on this thread.  There is a need (on an exception basis) to allow some players the freedom to transfer and play immediately..... but imo waiver approvals should not be the norm.

Maybe the NCAA  will establish a rule for immediate eligibility for ALL transfers that are Seniors or Grad Transfers and require all Conferences to follow this transfer rule??

Also maybe the NCAA might need to adjust their transfer portal rules to have specific times that portal is available.  For example Nov 1st to Jan 15th, and May 1st to August 31st??  This would help by providing less distractions during most of the Season and Spring workouts and give players time to decide before the Fall/Winter semesters start.

Edited February 10, 2019 by LTtxfan

[LTtxfan 49989]

25 minutes ago, EastTexan said:

Why are we debating what the ncaa will do? We don't know and ncaa sure as hell doesnt know.

Great Post ^^^^

[Tony Two K 605]

If a party lies to another to get them to enter into a contract, and that lie is material,  it’s called fraud in the inducement. The party who was lied to can void that contract.

[Chuckie Finster 23038]

Long term, my hope is that he doesnt get the waiver. The immediately gratified fan in me wants him to get it.
There has to be some sort of protection for schools for coaching turnover because it happens at every school and there is nothing any school can do about it. The nature of that turnover is different if the staff is being deceptive. For what it’s worth I dont believe Helton was being overtly deceptive. I think he was just naive that Kliff was going to actually coach there on his sinking ship as the hottest coaching free agent on the market. However, I have no doubts that Kliff lied to the McCoys when he wasn’t 100% solid in staying.

Or it will just force schools to be up front about potential coaching changes and drop the charade of everything staying the same until NSD.

[Vertigo 20492]

8 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Or it will just force schools to be up front about potential coaching changes and drop the charade of everything staying the same until NSD.

Other schools neg recruit top coordinators by saying they will be gone, and many times there is no way to know.  That top coordinator may only want to leave for a handful of jobs. Say the coach of one of those jobs gets poached by the NFL unexpectedly and there is an opening. One position coach at another school may have no intentions of leaving but the coordinator is a long time friend with a fresh major. Said friend comes calling offering a raise and promotion to coordinator. Does that mean the coach or school was being deceptive even though the coach left? Situations change at a moments notice during the coaching carousel. 

Edited February 10, 2019 by Vertigo

[Huckleberry 34578]

Those of you acting like McCoy's situation is a more dangerous precedent than Martell's are out of your minds. You think it's a bigger threat to the status quo to approve an early enrollee's transfer prior to class registration closing at the new school than it is to approve a transfer of a third year player because the head coach changes?

 

McCoy's situation might affect a maximum of a half dozen players on a team. Martell's would make the entire roster of a football program free agents if the head coach leaves.

 

The question of whether free agency is a problem that should be stopped is a separate discussion.

 

 

[Foosters 18269]

49 minutes ago, Vertigo said:

Long term, my hope is that he doesnt get the waiver. The immediately gratified fan in me wants him to get it.

There has to be some sort of protection for schools for coaching turnover because it happens at every school and there is nothing any school can do about it. The nature of that turnover is different if the staff is being deceptive. For what it’s worth I dont believe Helton was being overtly deceptive. I think he was just naive that Kliff was going to actually coach there on his sinking ship as the hottest coaching free agent on the market. However, I have no doubts that Kliff lied to the McCoys when he wasn’t 100% solid in staying.

Protection for the schools and the adults but not the students.

[Chuckie Finster 23038]

Those of you acting like McCoy's situation is a more dangerous precedent than Martell's are out of your minds. You think it's a bigger threat to the status quo to approve an early enrollee's transfer prior to class registration closing at the new school than it is to approve a transfer of a third year player because the head coach changes?
 
McCoy's situation might affect a maximum of a half dozen players on a team. Martell's would make the entire roster of a football program free agents if the head coach leaves.
 
The question of whether free agency is a problem that should be stopped is a separate discussion.
 
 

Yes, lumping the two scenarios together is crazy to me.

[Vertigo 20492]

29 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Protection for the schools and the adults but not the students.

There should be protection for both, but let’s not pretend that giving 18 year old kids the unfettered ability to leave situations that aren’t exactly what they were picturing is a good idea.

[hookem48 4839]

4 hours ago, EastTexan said:

Why are we debating what the ncaa will do? We don't know and ncaa sure as hell doesnt know.

why do we debate anything?

[RollLeft 5090]

3 minutes ago, hookem48 said:

why do we debate anything?

Are we debating?  

[NorLa Horns 1458]

4 minutes ago, RollLeft said:

Are we debating?  

I dont see anybodies mom being mentioned. So obviously not. 

[txhorns 2421]

It's not hard to figure out a solution to this.  If a coach is hired and then leaves the school before having coached a game then any player who signed after that coach was hired she be allowed to leave.  Players must be from the coaches position group or side of the ball is a coordinator.  Player is able to play immediately as long as they are able to enroll at their new school in time.

[SaucyJack 3519]

NCAA Transfer and Eligibility Rules

From Subtitle F; Sec.69-Automatic Waivers

D(c)3- .......The University of Texas may exercise its right if an F-250 is involved  (PLAY 8).

[Tex Pete 21483]

7 hours ago, markstanco said:

Approving Bru and Tate will help lead to that very thing. It's going to be hard to put that jeanie back in the bottle.

Imagine if Bru would have done this very thing but went to Norman instead. The opinions on this would be different.

 

That’s an absurd scenario. Players who transfer to OU are always granted immediate eligibility, without a loss of a year no matter what the circumstances are. 

[Bevo14 8468]

7 hours ago, markstanco said:

 

 

Approving Bru and Tate will help lead to that very thing. It's going to be hard to put that jeanie back in the bottle.

Imagine if Bru would have done this very thing but went to Norman instead. The opinions on this would be different.

It wouldn't be the same thing. Going to OU is a poor life decision.

[Katfid54 9005]

9 hours ago, markstanco said:

It's going to be hard to put that jeanie back in the bottle. 

Its "genie," you pisssipping sociofuck.

[futureman 22691]

1 hour ago, Katfid54 said:

Its "genie," you pisssipping sociofuck.

all that hate’s gonna burn you up, kid. 

[markstanco 12786]

2 hours ago, Katfid54 said:

Its "genie," you pisssipping sociofuck.

I didnt call you a racist. Others did. Dont take it out on me. 

[Pato del Muerto 53455]

If someone were to decide to write an article about the bru situation in 5 years, and they ask the usc registrar for his info, what would show up?  A list of classes with notes that they were dropped?  Or an empty page?  

Its not the same kind of transfer as most college transfers, athlete or not, because there’s no credits to transfer. Texas admission is based on his high school transcripts and test scores. 

If it weren’t for the student aid distribution, there may be no proof that bru was ever at usc. 

[Wiler77 1628]

14 hours ago, jofus said:

the problem with approving Bru is the precedent it sets. What’s the point of NSD1 if players can just immediately transfer out? Sure, he felt lied to, but this time of year is when coaching turnover happens. This would start happening all the time unless Bru can come up with a non-generic excuse that the NCAA can use to say this isn’t setting a precedent. 

Bru never actually signed a NLI at USC, did he?  That's a pretty big difference between most cases and his.

He enrolled at USC, said fuck this shit I'm going to Texas, and transferred before classes closed at Texas.

This should be a no-brainer

[sushihorn 3249]

Just now, Wiler77 said:

Bru never actually signed a NLI at USC, did he?  That's a pretty big difference between most cases and his.

He enrolled at USC, said fuck this shit I'm going to Texas, and transferred before classes closed at Texas.

This should be a no-brainer

There has been a lot of confusion on this issue.  Nearly all reports claim that Helton and USC released Bru from his LOI.  OTOH, there are several articles saying that a NLI was never filed with the NCAA.  If that is the case than an LOI might exist somewhere without ever being valid.  We don't even have a clear set of FACTS in this case so it's particularly useless to speculate on what the NCAA might decide based on whatever the facts are.

[Burt Macklin 19230]

18 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

There has been a lot of confusion on this issue.  Nearly all reports claim that Helton and USC released Bru from his LOI.  OTOH, there are several articles saying that a NLI was never filed with the NCAA.  If that is the case than an LOI might exist somewhere without ever being valid.  We don't even have a clear set of FACTS in this case so it's particularly useless to speculate on what the NCAA might decide based on whatever the facts are.

This is kind of missing the point though. Even if he signed it, USC released him. An NLI is meaningless and recruits don’t even have to sign them.  The only meaningfully operative fact is that he attended class. Once he does that, under the rules, he’s no longer a recruit, he’s now a student athlete and can’t transfer freely without a waiver.

[sushihorn 3249]

4 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

This is kind of missing the point though. Even if he signed it, USC released him. An NLI is meaningless and recruits don’t even have to sign them.  The only meaningfully operative fact is that he attended class. Once he does that, under the rules, he’s no longer a recruit, he’s now a student athlete and can’t transfer freely without a waiver.

True in that without the attendance there wouldn't even be a discussion.   OTOH, I think the (non)existence of a valid NLI could and likely should have a bearing on whether or not the waiver is granted.

[Burt Macklin 19230]

5 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

True in that without the attendance there wouldn't even be a discussion.   OTOH, I think the (non)existence of a valid NLI could and likely should have a bearing on whether or not the waiver is granted.

Why would that have any affect? USC released home even if there was one. Going to class makes the issue of whether or not he signed an NLI completely irrelevant. 

[sushihorn 3249]

1 minute ago, Burt Macklin said:

Why would that have any affect? USC released home even if there was one. Going to class makes the issue of whether or not he signed an NLI completely irrelevant. 

No valid LOI and enrolling at Texas for the Spring Semester brings in the Baker Mayfield precedent.

[TexasFan21 1275]

Take this to the ‘19 thread. Your contributions would mean more there. #1000

[ausjala 101]

4 hours ago, Katfid54 said:

Its "genie," you pisssipping sociofuck.

Probably just dreaming of Jeanie . . .

[Napoleon 8828]

1 hour ago, sushihorn said:

No valid LOI and enrolling at Texas for the Spring Semester brings in the Baker Mayfield precedent.

I think that the “He should not be eligible “ crowd keeps forgetting that he didn’t sign an LOI. 

He was basically a non-athlete student who then said “Ummmm... no.”

If it were a marriage, an annulment would be a no brainer. 

In Tate’s case, it’s a divorce. 

Edited February 11, 2019 by Napoleon

[LTtxfan 49989]

5 hours ago, Napoleon said:

I think that the “He should not be eligible “ crowd keeps forgetting that he didn’t sign an LOI. 

He was basically a non-athlete student who then said “Ummmm... no.”

If it were a marriage, an annulment would be a no brainer. 

In Tate’s case, it’s a divorce. 

NCAA may see Bru's situation as  (using your terms) a divorce as well.

Previous post.... From the NCAA website:

 A transfer student is a student who transfers from a collegiate institution after having triggered any of the conditions:

• Enrolled full-time during any term and attended class or in Division I if you are enrolled full time and are on campus on the opening day of classes.
• Reported for a regular squad practice.
• Practiced or competed while enrolled less than full-time..
• Received institutional financial aid while attending summer school.

Edited February 11, 2019 by LTtxfan

[AugieBall 237]

Why is it being accepted that Tate is transferring because of a head coaching change?  It seems to me he is transferring for no reason other than that Fields is transferring to tOSU.  If fleeing competition is grounds for a waiver, the floodgates are well and truly open.  

[LTtxfan 49989]

6 minutes ago, AugieBall said:

Why is it being accepted that Tate is transferring because of a head coaching change?  It seems to me he is transferring for no reason other than that Fields is transferring to tOSU.  If fleeing competition is grounds for a waiver, the floodgates are well and truly open.  

Here yah go....

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2019/01/101777/tate-martell-considered-transfer-before-the-2018-season-attorney-says-coaching-turnover-played-a-major-role

[Huckleberry 34578]

1 hour ago, AugieBall said:

Why is it being accepted that Tate is transferring because of a head coaching change?  It seems to me he is transferring for no reason other than that Fields is transferring to tOSU.  If fleeing competition is grounds for a waiver, the floodgates are well and truly open.  

In reality he's fleeing competition but the coaching change will be the argument and the basis for the decision.