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~95K noncitizens registered to vote, ~58k voted in the last Texas election

Thetexashammer

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gmr548

gmr548 16590

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I don’t think the #s are made up, as the Tribune wouldn’t report on it otherwise. The interpretation of “what it means” by the Trump/Abbott crowd is hilarious Bc if true, then it would be proof that strong voter ID laws enacted by a state with GOP control since 94 was a huge spectacular failure. 

That's what I mean, the intensity of the reaction. It's like no one decided to a bit of 6th grade arithmetic before getting on twitter. Trumpkins will eat it up all the same though.

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scottsins

scottsins 1968

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Posted
2 hours ago, Thetexashammer said:

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brookings-now/2013/10/03/what-percentage-of-u-s-population-is-foreign-born/

If I was imprecise in my terminology I apologize. But that is what I was getting at. It's not a disputed number.

Scottsins, there was no lying, but please do have a lovely evening.

Negged again for lying about previous lying not being lying.

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Mole

Mole 4333

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Posted (edited)

So the headline should be "ACCOUNTING CRISIS: 58K people who at one point were non-citizens or have similar names to non-citizens may have voted sometime in the last 20 years; they may or may not have been citizens at the time of voting." 

Edited by Mole
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Judge Roybeanbag

Judge Roybeanbag 11819

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One part of the Tribune article is very important and underscores the absolute dipshittery and dishonesty of the people pushing this.   My sister works for the Texas Civil Rights Project and pointed out that people going through the naturalization process can get a drivers license through DPS.  That doesn’t have to be updated for 6 years.  In the meantime they become citizens and registered to vote.  But the DPS database doesn’t reflect that.   

So, fake news.  And the people pimping it damned well know it. Fuck them. Paxton belongs in jail.

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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

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2 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

You could just stop posting because you contribute nothing of value. I imagine that’s what everyone would prefer.

I did want to circle back to this one. I promise to do better. I will start contributing more, in accordance with your stated preference.

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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

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2 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Then your bitch, if you choose to believe those numbers, is the Texas GOP, considering they hold everything in the state and have controlled every election for decades now.

 

So is it your assertion that the Texas GOP has failed the state of Texas?

 

I don't really have a dog in that fight. I'm not on a team. Are politicians liars and are governments generally incompetent? Yup. That's why I quoted HuffPo in the OP. I don't trust Paxton anymore than I would trust HuffPo. They're all dicks.

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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

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8 hours ago, Thetexashammer said:

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/politics/58000-Non-US-Citizens-Voted-in-Texas-State-Elections-Attorney-General-Paxton-Says-504879201.html

HuffPo made a valid point that not all are noncitizens. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-texas-voter-fraud_us_5c4dceb4e4b06ba6d3be02e8

So certainly some of them became citizens, since they where identified in the past as legal residents. However, this methodology also ignores illegal aliens who can register, based on a mere "statement" that they are citizens, since they never would have been in that database. So there are both type I and type II errors here.

All of this simply speaks to massive incompetence. Why are we registering voters who can't prove citizenship? There are 40 million noncitizens in the US. We just trust them to be honest? Fuck that. I mean, no offense, I don't trust actual citizens either. In the immortal words of Depeche Mode, people are people.

I mean fuck it lets just make voting into an online poll so that the Aggies can win it all by cheating.

 

box-of-hammers.jpg

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High Plains Drifter

High Plains Drifter 11050

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Thetexashammer said:

It was an estimate reported by the Texas AG. Therefore I described it as an estimate. I elucidated why it could be lower, then described why it could be higher. What else would you have me do?

Here is something to always keep in mind: The Texas AG is a lying sack of shit who shouldn't be trusted to walk your dog. Anytime you base a post on something that felon said, you are knowingly posting something that is probably false.

Since I can't tell him to fuck off in this thread, I'll tell you to fuck off.

Fuck off.

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Js1

Js1 85451

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Of course local AM radio this morning is blasting this story, without bothering to explain any of the facts that have been discussed on this thread.  Fear and hate mongering should be a crime.

I don't understand what they think is going to happen.  What's the endgame?  SUPER DOUBLE TRIPLE STRONGER THAN STEEL VOTER ID LAWS WILL FIX THIS.

It would be 100% that the GOP "leadership" in this state has failed since the mid-90s.  It would be 100% proof that "strong voter ID" laws don't work. 

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

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13 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I don't understand what they think is going to happen.  What's the endgame?  SUPER DOUBLE TRIPLE STRONGER THAN STEEL VOTER ID LAWS WILL FIX THIS.

It would be 100% that the GOP "leadership" in this state has failed since the mid-90s.  It would be 100% proof that "strong voter ID" laws don't work. 

The endgame is to keep Latino citizens from voting.  People named Smith will file for voter IDs and get smooth sailing. People named Rodriguez will have their IDs suspended with a required paper recheck before reinstatement.  Papers can't be recertified at the polls. And that will happen days before every election with no prior notification. 

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SmokeyTheBear

SmokeyTheBear 5562

Posted
Posted

The end game is to control voting to maximize their viewpoint over any others. It is why gerrymandering is such a big part of their strategy, along with the ridiculous voter ID laws and misinformation campaigns. Their ideas are not popular enough to win out in fair elections, so they game the system. The GOP is anti-democracy. 

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SuingToGetAMessageBoard?

SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861

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I laughed when I saw TT tweet this.  Not only are they working to get real information out there, but the tweet was immediately after the numbers came out and before people were running stories on it.  They knew people would be lying about these numbers.  IOW, the Tribune knows texashammer.

 

 

"New information came out.  Welp, let's get ready for the lies."

 

I will say this though, this is the best (only) evidence anyone has bothered providing that shows more than one-off illegal votes.  Looks like it could be 2,000, 3,000, 10,000 votes a year.  Something like that.  Finally starting to get to something.

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relapse98

relapse98 634

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11 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

I laughed when I saw TT tweet this.  Not only are they working to get real information out there, but the tweet was immediately after the numbers came out and before people were running stories on it.  They knew people would be lying about these numbers.

Texas Tribune is the go to source for any state government news. They are pretty damn good.

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NameAlreadyInUse

NameAlreadyInUse 5114

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After reading this thread I have 2 questions.

My first questions is, Ken Paxton was under indictment before he got elected the first time, and he's since been re-elected.  How in the hell has his constitutional right to a speedy trial not gotten him in front of a jury already so he could once and for all prove his innocence go to jail?

And my second question, How is it that so many people buy these stories from Republicans, when its clear that they are misrepresenting the truth in the best case scenario, and at worst, flat out lying on a consistent basis to win election?  This is the moral majority that continues to vote for the party where the end justifies any means.  And moral folks ought to know better than to go down that path.  So since they ought to know better, and since you have to just flat out have to be either not paying attention or super dumb not to see that's the case, why do so many keep falling for it?  And by the way, this is not rhetorical, I genuinely struggle with understadning this.

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13515

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

After reading this thread I have 2 questions.

My first questions is, Ken Paxton was under indictment before he got elected the first time, and he's since been re-elected.  How in the hell has his constitutional right to a speedy trial not gotten him in front of a jury already so he could once and for all prove his innocence go to jail?

And my second question, How is it that so many people buy these stories from Republicans, when its clear that they are misrepresenting the truth in the best case scenario, and at worst, flat out lying on a consistent basis to win election?  This is the moral majority that continues to vote for the party where the end justifies any means.  And moral folks ought to know better than to go down that path.  So since they ought to know better, and since you have to just flat out have to be either not paying attention or super dumb not to see that's the case, why do so many keep falling for it?  And by the way, this is not rhetorical, I genuinely struggle with understadning this.

For your first question, he doesn't want a trial.  He wants to wait it out for a favorable DA to drop the case.  I would imagine that the current DA doesn't necessarily want to prosecute the state AG.

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

Posted
Posted
After reading this thread I have 2 questions.
My first questions is, Ken Paxton was under indictment before he got elected the first time, and he's since been re-elected.  How in the hell has his constitutional right to a speedy trial not gotten him in front of a jury already so he could once and for all prove his innocence go to jail?
And my second question, How is it that so many people buy these stories from Republicans, when its clear that they are misrepresenting the truth in the best case scenario, and at worst, flat out lying on a consistent basis to win election?  This is the moral majority that continues to vote for the party where the end justifies any means.  And moral folks ought to know better than to go down that path.  So since they ought to know better, and since you have to just flat out have to be either not paying attention or super dumb not to see that's the case, why do so many keep falling for it?  And by the way, this is not rhetorical, I genuinely struggle with understadning this.



Because they WANT it to be true.

If thousands of brown people are flooding over our borders daily, it helps them feel better about the animus they have towards brown people.

They do it with stats about black people and crime and Muslims and terrorism and gays and sex crimes and women and rape.

Gross people like Texas politicians or Trump or Fox News holler about manipulated or downright fake stats that seem to support their feelings that these OTHERS are dangerous so that makes it okay for them to feel a certain way.

See, they want them deported/jailed/punished/detained because they’re DANGEROUS not because they’re OTHER! They aren’t bigoted! They have FACTS and STATS!
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scottsins

scottsins 1968

Posted
Posted
After reading this thread I have 2 questions.

My first questions is, Ken Paxton was under indictment before he got elected the first time, and he's since been re-elected.  How in the hell has his constitutional right to a speedy trial not gotten him in front of a jury already so he could once and for all prove his innocence go to jail?

And my second question, How is it that so many people buy these stories from Republicans, when its clear that they are misrepresenting the truth in the best case scenario, and at worst, flat out lying on a consistent basis to win election?  This is the moral majority that continues to vote for the party where the end justifies any means.  And moral folks ought to know better than to go down that path.  So since they ought to know better, and since you have to just flat out have to be either not paying attention or super dumb not to see that's the case, why do so many keep falling for it?  And by the way, this is not rhetorical, I genuinely struggle with understadning this.

 

There is all sorts of bullshit going on with his criminal case. Primarily, a fight about whether the special appointed prosecutors can be paid more than a grand or 2 for the entirety of their work.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.texastribune.org/2018/11/21/ken-paxton-texas-criminal-case-attorneys-fees/amp/

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Celery Man

Celery Man 20981

Posted
Posted
34 minutes ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

After reading this thread I have 2 questions.

My first questions is, Ken Paxton was under indictment before he got elected the first time, and he's since been re-elected.  How in the hell has his constitutional right to a speedy trial not gotten him in front of a jury already so he could once and for all prove his innocence go to jail?

 

i believe it's a long winding story and I'd like to refresh, but at least part of it is the GOP starving the office prosecuting him of funds

 

 

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relapse98

relapse98 634

Posted
Posted

You would think the party of law and order would want to get to figure out if the state's top law enforcement officer actually broke the law or not.

But all I hear from them is crickets. I'm beginning to think the law and order part is a bunch of bullshit.

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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

After reading this thread I have 2 questions.

My first questions is, Ken Paxton was under indictment before he got elected the first time, and he's since been re-elected.  How in the hell has his constitutional right to a speedy trial not gotten him in front of a jury already so he could once and for all prove his innocence go to jail?

And my second question, How is it that so many people buy these stories from Republicans, when its clear that they are misrepresenting the truth in the best case scenario, and at worst, flat out lying on a consistent basis to win election?  This is the moral majority that continues to vote for the party where the end justifies any means.  And moral folks ought to know better than to go down that path.  So since they ought to know better, and since you have to just flat out have to be either not paying attention or super dumb not to see that's the case, why do so many keep falling for it?  And by the way, this is not rhetorical, I genuinely struggle with understadning this.

There's plenty of evidence, but most of it is indirect. To take one example, in San Diego, the jury rolls are created from the voter rolls. In one year, 50k people declined jury duty because they were not citizens. Quite obviously, Democratic politicians in CA don't want to find out how many noncitizens voted, since they mostly voted Democrat. So we don't know the answer.

You see the same problems in Texas. Do the voter rolls even have enough information to determine is someone is illegal? Apperently not. But anyone, and I mean anyone, can show up and register to vote. 

I am reminded of an old Project Veritas stunt where they got Eric Holder's ballot by just asking for it. The system is rife with corruption until proven otherwise. BOTH SIDES DO IT!!!!! (<<<just cause you guys hate that but they do). Just like both sides are incompetent.

There are likely quite a few noncitizens voting in Texas. Again, it's all circumstantial, but I have more evidence than those who think there are no noncitizens voting, which (besides being a totally absurd proposition because it flies in the face of human nature) is no evidence at all

Edited by Thetexashammer
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elfenix

elfenix 34331

Posted
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

There's plenty of evidence, but most of it is indirect. To take one example, in San Diego, the jury rolls are created from the voter rolls. In one year, 50k people declined jury duty because they were not citizens. Quite obviously, Democratic politicians in CA don't want to find out how many noncitizens voted, since they mostly voted Democrat. So we don't know the answer.

except that they're mostly created from the driver's license rolls.  and instead of 50k it was 32k, so you're off by 50%.  which is probably an improvement in accuracy for you.

 

Edited by elfenix
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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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5 minutes ago, elfenix said:

except that they're mostly created from the driver's license rolls.  and instead of 50k it was 32k, so you're off by 50%.  which is probably an improvement in accuracy for you.

 

Since when did a fact like that matter to a known liar like the Texas hammer. Fucking pathetic really. 

The trumplicans desperation to somehow prove their shitty views are not in the minority would be sad if it wasn’t also so dangerous. They deserve no quarter as liars who are a threat to democracy.

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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

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5 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Since when did a fact like that matter to a known liar like the Texas hammer. Fucking pathetic really. 

The trumplicans desperation to somehow prove their shitty views are not in the minority would be sad if it wasn’t also so dangerous. They deserve no quarter as liars who are a threat to democracy.

Technically, you're accusing Snopes of lying.

Of course, Snopes is an actual liar so you're not wrong. From the link:

Quote

However, they are ineligible for jury duty and cannot register to vote in U.S. elections.

Followed by:

Quote

In San Diego County, the state’s second-largest court, 32,290 people were specifically removed from the juror pool between 1 January 2018 and 11 December 2018 for not being U.S. citizens.

So you can't do it, but they actually do it. Make up your mind you clever devils!!! It's almost as if they have an agenda other than truth. 

Edited by Thetexashammer
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SuingToGetAMessageBoard?

SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861

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Pretty sad article.  Here come the voter purges in Texas.  

This is where local elections really matter.  If you get some right wing operative in there, you get the Galveston solution.  Mail letters out, if you don't provide proof of citizenship in a month, you are off the voter rolls. Anyone want to make a bet whether more legitimate folks are denied the right to vote or illegal voters are stopped?

 

https://www.texastribune.org/2019/01/28/some-texas-voters-are-already-being-asked-prove-their-citizenship-foll/?utm_campaign=trib-social&amp;utm_content=1548726334&amp;utm_medium=social&amp;utm_source=twitter

 

Quote

Following the state’s announcement that it was flagging tens of thousands of registered voters for possible citizenship checks, some Texas voters could be receiving requests to prove their citizenship this week.

Local election officials have received lists of individuals whose citizenship status the state says counties should consider checking. Officials in some of Texas’ biggest counties said Monday they were still parsing through thousands of records and deciding how best to verify the citizenship status of those flagged by the state. But in Galveston County, the first batch of “proof of citizenship” letters were scheduled to be dropped in the mail Monday afternoon.

Those notices start a 30-day countdown for a voter to provide proof of citizenship such as a birth certificate, a U.S. passport or a certificate of naturalization. Voters who don't respond will have their voter registration canceled.

The Texas Tribune reached out to 13 of the 15 counties with the most registered voters on Monday; Galveston was the only one that indicated it would immediately send out letters, even as more than a dozen civil rights groups warned the state and local election officials that they risked violating federal law by scrutinizing the voters flagged by the state.

 

Cheryl Johnson, who oversees the voter rolls in Galveston County as its tax assessor-collector, said she was simply following state law by starting to send letters to the more than 830 people the state flagged.

Those voters are among the approximately 95,000 registered voters who the state said provided the Texas Department of Safety with some form of documentation, such as a green card or a work visa, that showed they were not citizens when obtained a driver license or ID card.

It’s unclear exactly how many of them are not actually U.S. citizens. Legal permanent residents, also known as green card holders, who become naturalized citizens after obtaining driver licenses are not required to update DPS on their citizenship status, according to voting rights lawyers.

Past reviews of the voter rolls by other states ultimately found that a much smaller number of the thousands of voters initially flagged were actually non-citizens. Civil rights groups have pointed to Florida, where a similar methodology was used to create a list of approximately 180,000 registered voters that officials claimed were non-citizens — the number was ultimately reduced to about 85 voters. Amid a court fight, Florida eventually agreed to reinstate 2,600 voters who were mistakenly removed from the rolls because the state classified them as non-citizens.

Bruce Elfant, Travis County’s tax assessor-collector and voter registrar, indicated he was concerned about the accuracy of the data because the county has previously received data from DPS that was “less than pristine.” County officials vowed to review the list of 4,547 registered voters they received but were still trying to convert the data into a usable format.

He said he also wanted more information about the methodology the Texas Secretary of State’s office used to compile the list, pointing out that naturalized citizens may have obtained their driver licenses before becoming citizens.

“The state is responsible for vetting for citizenship” during the voter registration process, Elfant said. “I would be surprised if that many people got through it.”

Other county officials echoed Elfant’s point about naturalized citizens. Collin County’s election administrator, Bruce Sherbert, said they had received a list of approximately 4,700 names and would consider them on a case-by-case basis, checking for cases in which a voter might have already provided some form of proof they are citizens.

“It can be a process that takes several months to go through,” Sherbert said. “We’re just at the front side of it.”

Facing a list of 2,033 individuals, Williamson County officials said they were considering ways in which they could determine citizenship without sending notices to voters. Chris Davis, the county’s election administrator, said some naturalized citizens could have registered to vote at naturalization ceremonies in other counties, so their files might indicate their registration applications were mailed in from there.

 

“We want to try to avoid sending notices to folks if we can find proof of their citizenship, thereby they don’t have to come in and prove it themselves or mail it,” Davis said.

Election officials in Fort Bend County said they had received a list of about 8,400 voters, though they noted some may be duplicates. El Paso County officials said their list included 4,152 voters.

Harris County officials did not provide a count of voters the state flagged on its rolls, but Douglas Ray, a special assistant county attorney, said they were treading carefully because of previous missteps by the state.

“To be quite frank, several years ago the secretary of state did something very similar claiming there were people who were deceased,” Ray said. “They sent us a list and the voter registrar sent confirmation notices and it turned out a lot of people identified on the list were misidentified. A lot of the people who received notices were very much alive.”

 

Ray said the county plans to examine the identities of voters on the list, reviewing registration information on file and proceeding with the confirmation process if they have “serious questions” about a voter.

“We don't want non-citizens voting any more than anyone else does,” Ray said. “What we're skeptical of is the quality of information we’re being given.”

Election officials in Dallas, Tarrant, Bexar, Hidalgo, Montgomery and Cameron counties did not respond to questions about the lists they received. The state declined to provide specifics about the list on Friday and directed the Tribune to file an open records request.

 

 

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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

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https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/do-illegal-votes-decide-elections

Quote

A postelection survey conducted by Americas Majority Foundation found that 2.1% of noncitizens voted in the Nov. 8 election. In the battleground states of Michigan and Ohio, 2.5% and 2.1%, respectively, of noncitizens reported voting. In 2013, pollster McLaughlin & Associates conducted an extensive survey of Hispanics on immigration issues. Its voter-profile tabulation shows that 13% of noncitizens said they were registered to vote. That matches closely the Old Dominion/George Mason study, in which 15.6% of noncitizens said they were registered.

13% of noncitizens ACTUALLY ADMIT TO VOTING!!! No evidence though. None. Not even a scintilla.

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SuingToGetAMessageBoard?

SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861

Posted
Posted
Just now, Thetexashammer said:

https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/do-illegal-votes-decide-elections

13% of noncitizens ACTUALLY ADMIT TO VOTING!!! No evidence though. None. Not even a scintilla.

Just say what it actually says.  Not everyone here is to propagandize.  Some want to actually learn.  2.1% vote.  13% registered to vote.  That's important information we need to deal with.  Unless you are Roger Stone or something and you make money by lying to people on here, please stop.  If it is your job, of course, by all means don't let me stop you.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18940

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/do-illegal-votes-decide-elections

13% of noncitizens ACTUALLY ADMIT TO VOTING!!! No evidence though. None. Not even a scintilla.

"This bi-lingual national survey of 800 Hispanics was conducted from June 5th through June 16th, 2013. Interview selection was within predetermined census units of Hispanic adults. 560 interviews were conducted via landline telephone by professional interviewers. To increase coverage, this landline sample was supplemented with 240 interviews, 30 %, conducted via internet of cellphone only users. 64% of all respondents use cell phones. 60% of all interviews were conducted in Spanish. 93% of all respondents speak at least some Spanish at home. These samples were then combined and structured to correlate with actual adult Hispanic census population. This poll of 800 Hispanic adults has an accuracy of +/- 3.4% at a 95% confidence interval. Within the sample, 470 of the Hispanic adults are also registered voters. For this subsample the accuracy is +/- 4.5% at a 95% confidence interval."

Good job.

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17627

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Posted
13 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

OK, so if you get jury duty every ten years, that's ~300k registered in San Diego. 

And again, you fucking idiot, drivers license rolls and voter rolls are completely fucking different. Literally they have no relationship to each other. Being on the drivers license rolls says fuck all about your ability to vote or participate in jury duty. They just use those rolls because they contain the broadest pool of residents to pull from. 

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bolverk

bolverk 29700

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

 

What?

He's lying again. 

8 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

Its voter-profile tabulation shows that 13% of noncitizens said they were registered to vote.

I'm surprised that percentage isn't higher, given the amount of misinformation and misunderstanding there is out there.

Regarding the Texas-specific issue, someone explained it with some very nice clarity on KUT. The list that's being floated is likely more or less a list of citizens who've become naturalized in the last 22 years. 

Edited by bolverk
negged boxofhammers for lying...again.
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SuingToGetAMessageBoard?

SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/do-illegal-votes-decide-elections

13% of noncitizens ACTUALLY ADMIT TO VOTING!!! No evidence though. None. Not even a scintilla.

Until you provide any evidence that this might be accurate, I'm downgrading to "fake news."  Not only does your link say the 13% is who is registered to vote (as opposed to actually voted), the survey has no reference at all that supports even the "registered" part, let alone the "actually voted" part.  It's disappointing to see when you are dealing with straight up lies on this.  

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