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5 HPD Officers Shot

Lobwedgephil

By Lobwedgephil
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Deej
Deej

Do they know how many were shot by their fellow officers?

PilotsError
PilotsError

...

hayden_horn
hayden_horn

https://abc13.com/2-suspects-identified-in-drug-house-shootout-that-left-5-officers-injured-/5111659/ look, if they've evidence that these folks were drug dealers, fair play to the police. 

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Steel Shank

Steel Shank 9552

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Orange&White said:

Ive always assumed the shots that were fired well after the event were the cops shooting each other because they realized how bad they fucked up. 

 

Is is it the general consensus that the cops executed the owners 30 minutes after the event ended?

Another possibility is that the cops discharged Tuttle's gun (if there even was one), so that it indicated "he fired at the cops". Scattershooting w/ Blackie Sherod Steel Shank

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Reagan1k

Reagan1k 3042

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The forensic investigation or lack there of will render any conclusion about whether Tuttle ever engaged them as undetermined. 

The team his family hired found bullets still imbedded in walls and bloody evidence still lying around days later.  

I’d be shocked if there is ever anything close to a  full ballistics report unless the feds somehow come in and cobble something together by analyzing what HPD and the private team collected.  HPD will not release anything on that willingly  considering how they’d stalled their hometown DA prior to this point. 

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Posted (edited)

It would be helpful for the good cops, the Chiefs, the D.A.'s et. al. to just lay out the "unwritten rules" to the bad cops.  Shit, the public would be cool with most of these:

If there's $1.0mm in drug money seized, you can take $5,000 before it gets booked into evidence.  If there's a bar that's a known ring for hookers and drugs, you can look the other way in exchange for free drinks anytime for you and your partner.  If there's a bunch of hookers working an area, you get can get free head for not busting them.  If there's some asshole giving you attitude and you wanna take one swing at him---it's fine.  Those are fine, we're all fine with that kinda shit.  You shouldn't do it, we'd all get in trouble for it, but if you need a little venting for the tough gig-we get it.  You're there when I need you, and for that--fuck it...take a little something extra for you and your family.  Unwind your nerves, be celebrated a little bit, live it up after hours,   We get it.  

All we're really asking you not do, is three really simple things:

-Fabricating warrants/Planting evidence.  That causes so much more rot to the integrity of Judicial System/Rule of Law than your tiny brain realizes.  It's not just about dicking over that one darker colored person.  It ripples with a magnitude throughout all of that community or state.  Stop treating people's rights as a punchline.  

-Stop escalating situations that don't need to be escalated.  You turn the most mundane, routine shit into a fucking Univision Telenovela.  Your literal job description is "To de-escalate potentially dangerous situations."  You see a dark person in the street and your first fucking instinct, "Yep, today needs lots of yelling, drawn weapons, random questions, and lots and lots of ID!....woo-hoo!"  Y'all remind me of that John Mulaney bit about his girlfriend wanting to meet his parents.  "Things have been going pretty hot and heavy tonight.  You know what would make this night even more special?  Charles and Ellen Mulaney.  Yeah, let's get two older Catholic people in the mix."  That's you guys half the day, people just enjoying their lives and for some ungodly reason, you just decide for no reason to insert yourself into their life; thinking you're doing everybody a favor, and you just show up and shit all over everything.  Be thankful for those quiet times between calls.  Shit, go have a cocktail or get a handjob from a massage parlor.  

-Again, see my first paragraph.  We're all mostly okay with you taking a few liberties here and there.  But you have just got to stop shooting innocent people.  I mean, it's got to stop.  90% of the shitty cops in those videos harassing innocent people who they felt look "suspicious."  They all say the same, incredibly dangerous thing...some version of, "We have to investigate/identify/detain/harass/arrest/murder you, because what you're doing is suspicious to us and with all the violence going on against police...we gotta take steps to protect ourselves."  Y'all say some version of that every fucking time.  Your excuse for politely asking for ID all the way through the gamut  through multiple .40 caliber rounds to the face and back shouldn't be the same fucking thing.  You literally have the same mentality and same script for people filming shit with their phones, as you do for people who are actively trying to kill police officers.  You may want to look into that.  I  am distraught by the fact that people kill police in this country every year.  But not everybody you stop was in on those heinous crimes.  You can't use those tragedies to justify murdering innocent people.  Some people are totally innocent, some are assholes, some are committing crimes that very likely do not include murdering cops, and there's hundreds of millions more just living their life.  Learn to read a room guys, not everybody was in on it.

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Iceman

Iceman 2978

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1 hour ago, PilotsError said:

If the people claiming to be good cops don't ever arrest the bad cops, and tolerate them and protect them, that makes them bad cops.  

It's really not difficult to understand.  

 

If their bosses are the bad guys, that's why outside organizations( ie  the FBI) need to take out the bosses.

 

It didn't happen without the bosses knowing.  and if it did, they get paid to know.  It's on them.  Goines is but a pawn.

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Cajun

Cajun 11772

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, PilotsError said:

If the people claiming to be good cops don't ever arrest the bad cops, and tolerate them and protect them, that makes them bad cops.  

It's really not difficult to understand.  

 

Boggles my mind that so many who white knight cops seem abolutely void of the basic common sense it takes to understand this coming right out of the gate. 

You say it and they're like a dog hearing a high-pitched whistle with the head tilt.

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hopkinsnhorns

hopkinsnhorns 533

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I talked to someone more intimately informed on this case.  I asked why it took so long to bring the charges, and was told that there were behind the scenes negotiations with two other officers from the raid to secure their immunity in exchange for testimony.  Supposedly, they knew the warrant was BS but still went along with it anyway.  I was told to hold steady, there will be more bombshells dropping about this in the news as soon as the end of this week.

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immortal13

immortal13 4059

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8 minutes ago, hopkinsnhorns said:

I talked to someone more intimately informed on this case.  I asked why it took so long to bring the charges, and was told that there were behind the scenes negotiations with two other officers from the raid to secure their immunity in exchange for testimony.  Supposedly, they knew the warrant was BS but still went along with it anyway.  I was told to hold steady, there will be more bombshells dropping about this in the news as soon as the end of this week.

Wow

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NeverMarryAStripper

NeverMarryAStripper 22273

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If the two officers charged were the only two bad apples in the entire HPD then why did they have to offer immunity?  I like to think the officers busted into the house and killed the residents and then got in an argument about what to do and started blasting each other.

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SHOOTER12

SHOOTER12 8886

Posted
Posted
On 8/23/2019 at 4:59 PM, Steel Shank said:

Hope the DA offers the two officers a deal if they'll dish on the rest of the cops.

And then when the officers roll on every last damned one of them... crawfish on the deal and drill that old devil in the ass,.,...........

 

 

 

 

 

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WBT

WBT 20963

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On 8/25/2019 at 3:50 PM, Lobo said:

It would be helpful for the good cops, the Chiefs, the D.A.'s et. al. to just lay out the "unwritten rules" to the bad cops.  Shit, the public would be cool with most of these:

If there's $1.0mm in drug money seized, you can take $5,000 before it gets booked into evidence.  If there's a bar that's a known ring for hookers and drugs, you can look the other way in exchange for free drinks anytime for you and your partner.  If there's a bunch of hookers working an area, you get can get free head for not busting them. 

Or they could just do their jobs and be held to the same standards as everyone else?

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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At this point in my life as a brown person in a big city, I'm gonna trade them skimming/cheating a bit in exchange for them not opening fire on me in front of my children...ya know...so they can get home at night.  

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DigglerontheHoof

DigglerontheHoof 21548

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On ‎8‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 5:09 PM, thestud said:

 

 

You won’t get any argument from me that Art is a shit bag, Goines and the other guy whose name escapes me are also shitbags. What remains to be seen is who else involved are shit bags and who are the good guys. Unlike a lot of folks around here, I do believe there are good cops. Are there shitty, crooked, evil motherfuckers that have no business wearing a badge? Absolutely, but I’m just not willing to paint them all with that broad brush because there are some out there that do the job for the right reasons. Are there as many good cops as the bootlickers will have you believe? No. Are there as many horrible evil asshole cops out there as Pilotserror and some others around here would have you believe? I don’t think so.

 

That’s my $0.02 on it. Another $0.48 and you can get a double Bellows and Coke at Guitars and Cadillac’s on Thursday night from 6-8.

 

 

Edit: scummy union douchecanoe. He can eat a dick too. Lots of them. Maybe even choke on one if we’re lucky.

 

Those "good" cops you believe in?  Guess what, every damn one of them knows of illegal activities that their colleagues are committing and hardly any...hell, I might even venture zero, turn them in or try to get them off the force.  And if you're a "good" cop who looks the other way, while your fellow cops are breaking the law, you cease being a good cop.

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SHOOTER12

SHOOTER12 8886

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3 hours ago, Xian said:

wait. This cop that just got arrested??  You have history with him?

No, no should have included more detail.

My truck was broken into 7/8/2012 and my 1911 was stolen.  A little over a year later it was recovered during an arrest.  HPD told me once it was clear from being involved in a crime I could get it back.  Several months later an HPD officer called and gave me a claim/case number and the phone number to call to arrange for pick up.  So I called, idiots at the property room claimed they knew nothing about it, no case number matched etc etc.  I chased it down for a year and finally said to hell with it.

It was an awesome Springfield 1911 that 10-Ring Precision had done some great work on it.  I know one of those bastards saw what a nice pistol it was and decided to keep it.

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immortal13

immortal13 4059

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10 minutes ago, SHOOTER12 said:

No, no should have included more detail.

My truck was broken into 7/8/2012 and my 1911 was stolen.  A little over a year later it was recovered during an arrest.  HPD told me once it was clear from being involved in a crime I could get it back.  Several months later an HPD officer called and gave me a claim/case number and the phone number to call to arrange for pick up.  So I called, idiots at the property room claimed they knew nothing about it, no case number matched etc etc.  I chased it down for a year and finally said to hell with it.

It was an awesome Springfield 1911 that 10-Ring Precision had done some great work on it.  I know one of those bastards saw what a nice pistol it was and decided to keep it.

Fuck those pieces of shit. You can bet your ass that one of those assholes has that 1911 in his gun safe. That shit makes me ragey as fuck. Cops steal more property than the rest of the population combined

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Player

Player 4609

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Mario Diaz with Ch.2 continues to hammer away at Acevedo's bullshit "we still had probable cause" lies. Good for him. 

https://www.click2houston.com/news/investigates/harding-street-investigation-and-questions-surrounding-probable-cause

The confidential informant was a fiction of Goines' imagination, so NOTHING in the affidavit that was presented to the judge to obtain the warrant is credible. Art needs to burn at the stake for perpetuating his righteous indignation over legitimate questions about HPD's tactics. 

I'm still at a loss to explain what may have motivated Goines to frame Tuttle and Nicholas. Given his prior road rage shooting, it won't surprise me if it was something petty that Goines considered to be a personal affront. 

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rtchorn

rtchorn 15

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It’s covered earlier in this thread, but there is a similar address, 7815 Hardin St, which appears to be an actual drug house. A tip came in and the person receiving the tip botched the street name. Going’s didn’t find it necessary to do any actual police work. No need for any other motive.

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Are you saying that it’s statically possible that out of every two homes in America, possibly one or even zero of them are drug stash houses?  Lies!  Why won’t you back the blue!?!? 

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hopkinsnhorns

hopkinsnhorns 533

Posted
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On 8/30/2019 at 11:04 PM, rtchorn said:

It’s covered earlier in this thread, but there is a similar address, 7815 Hardin St, which appears to be an actual drug house. A tip came in and the person receiving the tip botched the street name. Going’s didn’t find it necessary to do any actual police work. No need for any other motive.

Initial speculation was 7815 Hardy St., which is definitely fits the stereotype for a drug house, but I don't think anything came of that hypothesis.  There is no Hardin St. in Houston.

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rtchorn

rtchorn 15

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On 2/14/2019 at 3:13 PM, hopkinsnhorns said:

News Now Houston posted a video that suggests HPD hit the wrong house.  They raided and murdered the occupants of 7815 Harding St.  This guy, based on the description of the home presented by Chief Acevedo, thinks they intended to raid 7815 Hardy St, which actually appears to be a drug den, with fences and high tech/night vision security cameras.  If this is true, holy fucking shit.  I hope the dead have some very litigious surviving family members to seek justice on their behalf.
 

 

Here is the earlier video where the guy showed the 7815 Hardy Rd address which is more likely to be a drug house. The google maps images indicate the fence was added fairly recently. Seems pretty odd to buy a new metal fence and outfit it with surveillance cameras for such a dilapidated property.

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SMUlawUTgrad

SMUlawUTgrad 81

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Posted

I've not been posting much recently. I do criminal defense work in Harris County and this is true. I have clients who get things "lost" all of the time and there is jack-shit we can do most of time unless we go to trial and get the officer to admit it. 

On 8/29/2019 at 6:35 PM, immortal13 said:

Fuck those pieces of shit. You can bet your ass that one of those assholes has that 1911 in his gun safe. That shit makes me ragey as fuck. Cops steal more property than the rest of the population combined

 

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PW119

PW119 167

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Not being argumentative, but I don't believe the whole "wrong street" theory.  There was no Confidential Informant (just some bullshit that Goines created to get the warrant) so it doesn't matter whether the street was Harding or Hardy  The cops had drugs to plant.  And there is the kill shot to Tuttle long after the raid began.  These assholes wanted Tuttle and Nicholas dead for some reason.

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immortal13

immortal13 4059

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46 minutes ago, SMUlawUTgrad said:

I've not been posting much recently. I do criminal defense work in Harris County and this is true. I have clients who get things "lost" all of the time and there is jack-shit we can do most of time unless we go to trial and get the officer to admit it. 

 

My brother lost a very very nice Browing .270 and a sig P239, plus a couple of other guns because of some bullshit like this. His then wife claimed he pointed a gun at her. This was all fallout from a divorce/custody dispute that she was unhappy about. The claim was an unsubstantiated lie and was not proven in court, however my brother was never able to recover the guns that were confiscated from him. Total bullshit. We all know some loser cop(s) added them to his collection

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immortal13

immortal13 4059

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21 minutes ago, PW119 said:

Not being argumentative, but I don't believe the whole "wrong street" theory.  There was no Confidential Informant (just some bullshit that Goines created to get the warrant) so it doesn't matter whether the street was Harding or Hardy  The cops had drugs to plant.  And there is the kill shot to Tuttle long after the raid began.  These assholes wanted Tuttle and Nicholas dead for some reason.

This is my take as well

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Iceman

Iceman 2978

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23 minutes ago, PW119 said:

Not being argumentative, but I don't believe the whole "wrong street" theory.  There was no Confidential Informant (just some bullshit that Goines created to get the warrant) so it doesn't matter whether the street was Harding or Hardy  The cops had drugs to plant.  And there is the kill shot to Tuttle long after the raid began.  These assholes wanted Tuttle and Nicholas dead for some reason.

Either that or they were so comfortable with their ‘authority’ that it fit right into their SOP to not worry about little details like addresses.

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rtchorn

rtchorn 15

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 9/4/2019 at 10:36 AM, hopkinsnhorns said:

Let's not forget the narrative that the mom of the deceased Nicholas supposedly had called in a wellness check (about her daughter's supposed rampant drug use) that prompted this whole investigation.  Meanwhile, the mom denies ever making such a call.

 

On 9/4/2019 at 11:28 AM, PW119 said:

Not being argumentative, but I don't believe the whole "wrong street" theory.  There was no Confidential Informant (just some bullshit that Goines created to get the warrant) so it doesn't matter whether the street was Harding or Hardy  The cops had drugs to plant.  And there is the kill shot to Tuttle long after the raid began.  These assholes wanted Tuttle and Nicholas dead for some reason.

The initial tip was from a woman who called saying her daughter was doing drugs in the house. I think it was initially stated it was Nicholas’s mother, but I don’t think that’s been said since. The court documents claim a street cop investigated the house, found nothing suspicious. The strange part is the department’s claim is that the investigating officer called the mother back. That would imply the officer had the tipster’s contact info. The tipster and the CI were different people. I suppose they could’ve made up the tip too, but so think that’s unlikely, because it would require too many people to be involved.

But the real reason I doubt Goines had it in for Tuttle and Nicholas is that he had a pattern of faking CI buys to obtain no knock warrants. There were 109 cases where Goines claimed the informant observed guns but no guns were recovered in the the raid. I think this time it went sideways when they shot the dog and the other officers got spooked and started firing. There’s no need for a conspiracy here; there’s enough arrogance and stupidity in the police department to explain this debacle.

Edited by rtchorn
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Iceman

Iceman 2978

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8 hours ago, rtchorn said:

 

. There were 109 cases where Goines claimed the informant observed guns but no guns were recovered in the the raid. I think this time it went sideways when they shot the dog and the other officers got spooked and started firing. There’s no need for a conspiracy here; there’s enough arrogance and stupidity in the police department to explain this debacle.

That's 109 reasons to ask WTF were his supervisors doing?

As old Mike Leach says, you're either coaching it or allowing it to happen.

The bosses are absolutely guilty of neglecting their responsibilities if one doesn't want to believe they were complicit in Goines' bullshit.

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rtchorn

rtchorn 15

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Iceman said:

That's 109 reasons to ask WTF were his supervisors doing?

As old Mike Leach says, you're either coaching it or allowing it to happen.

The bosses are absolutely guilty of neglecting their responsibilities if one doesn't want to believe they were complicit in Goines' bullshit.

Nicholas's family's lawyer filed a petition to depose Goines supervisors to ask exactly that question, along with a bunch of other questions that imply there was a complete lack of oversight in the narcotics division.  The DA is now reviewing 1,400 convictions and 14,000 cases.

Quote

It is hard to see how that can be true. According to Acevedo, Goines' investigation of alleged drug dealing at the Harding Street house was triggered by a tip from a patrol officer who had responded to a January 8 call in which an unnamed woman reported that her daughter "was in there doing heroin." At a press conference three days after the raid, Acevedo described the call this way: "The caller wanted to remain anonymous but said that her daughter was inside the residence 'doing drugs, and they have a lot of guns in the residence.' She stated there was also a female in the house." The woman said she had looked through a window, and she saw that "her daughter was in the house, and there were guns and heroin."

When two patrol officers arrived in response to that call, the woman was nowhere to be found. According to Acevedo, they questioned a passer-by and afterward heard her say into her cellphone, "Hey, the police are at the dope house." When the officers called the woman who had made the report, Acevedo said, "She stated she did not want to give any information because they were drug dealers and they would kill her. She wanted the officers to go into the house and get her daughter." The officers explained that they had no authority to enter the house.

This shit is super fucking puzzling to me.  How did they call the "unnamed woman" back if she refused to give her information?  The police don't have the ability to do a reverse look-up on a phone number?  Seems like it would be really simple to figure out who she was.

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Lobwedgephil

Lobwedgephil 1146

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According to this guy, looks like the homeowners didn't even fire a shot. 

 

https://www.click2houston.com/news/investigates/debacle-forensic-investigator-reveals-his-findings-on-the-harding-street-raid

HOUSTON - It has been more than six months since forensic investigator Michael Maloney first stepped inside 7815 Harding St.

His mission? Far from simple, as he is working to discover the truth.  

Hired by the families of Dennis Tuttle and Rhogena Nicholas, Maloney and his team recovered several rounds, months after the deadly botched raid. Maloney told KPRC 2 Investigates in May that, "This was surprising for a scene that was already processed."

Maloney is a decorated forensic investigator with nearly 30 years of experience. During his spring visit, he reconstructed bullet trajectories and carefully examined the inside of the now-infamous home where Houston Police Department narcotics officers carried out the deadly botched raid. After spending four days at the home last spring, Maloney is now talking in his first sit-down interview.  

Maloney made his intimate knowledge of his work clear.

"I knew where he spent his final moments as he laid dying and his teeth were still there," Maloney said. "How do you come in and process a scene and leave part of a victim lying on the floor in a puddle of blood?"

KPRC 2 Investigates traveled to Missouri last week to speak with Maloney. It did not take long for him to be blunt with his assessment.  

When asked if the narrative he has heard from HPD matches up in any way, in his opinion? Maloney said, "No it doesn't."

One of the biggest discoveries for Maloney was that the round he said killed Nicholas also has the DNA of Tuttle on it.

"I was very surprised when it ended up having a minor contributor of Dennis Tuttle," Maloney said. "I was also very pleased, because it allows us to then position Dennis Tuttle at some point during the dynamic shooting event."

The wound reveals not only where Tuttle was inside the home, but also the view an HPD officer had when he fired the shot, according to Maloney.

"What we have to realize is that this bullet is fired from outside of the house. There's not a view inside of the house," Maloney said. "Rhogena Nichols is shot blind. That means Tuttle was shot, at least by that grazing wound across his forearm, blind, as well. They didn't see him."

At the time of death, Tuttle weighed only 112 pounds, he had his right hand bandaged and his leg in a brace. However, HPD said he was still capable of hitting four trained officers after surprising him with a no-knock warrant.  When asked if he has discovered anything that shows Dennis Tuttle fired off a round, Maloney said: "I have not discovered any evidence that he has fired off a round, nor has any evidence been made available to me that would indicate that he fired."

Friendly fire has also been a question asked by many following the shooting. In the hours after former narcotics officer Gerald Goines was charged with two counts of murder, HPD Chief Art Acevedo said, "I stand by our investigation, and I can tell you there is no evidence of friendly fire in this case."

Maloney's reaction? "It's easy to say there is absolutely no indication of friendly fire but for transparency's sake, when you have such a debacle at the doorway, with shots raining in against the house that aren't being aimed at individuals but are just shooting a structure and everything else, you would think that rather than just state 'There is no evidence,' we would see that evidence."

When asked about his viewpoint regarding the raid being a complete debacle, Maloney said: "I believe I am completely justified in viewing it as a debacle."

Acevedo did not want to sit down with KPRC 2 Investigates for an interview. He said in a text to KPRC 2 Investigates, "The Department is not going to engage in public comment and jeopardize the pending criminal prosecution."

 

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Player 4609

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Posted

Damn, Tuttle only weighed 112 lbs at the time, and had a bum leg. Despite these frailties, and being surprised by his door getting kicked in, Art still contends that Tuttle shot 4 cops, but there’s no forensic evidence to support that claim.

Fuck Acevedo- he needs to be fired.

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NorthLoop

NorthLoop 14457

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Player said:

Damn, Tuttle only weighed 112 lbs at the time, and had a bum leg. Despite these frailties, and being surprised by his door getting kicked in, Art still contends that Tuttle shot 4 cops, but there’s no forensic evidence to support that claim.

Fuck Acevedo- he needs to be fired.

At this point Acevedo needs to be arrested. 

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