It appears Clemson players have been juicing like hell

[Sgt Hulk 13648]

12 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

The reasonable thing would be to stop allowing children to play a sport that damages the brain beyond repair and causes everything from psychosis to memory loss to suicidal depression and then some. 

Reasonable flew out the window a long time ago. In true American fashion we like to be bloodthirsty war mongers yet tell ourselves we're for peace. We like to lock the most people up on the planet yet tell ourselves we're free. 

For once let's just call a spade a fucking spade. If we cared about these college players' wellbeing we wouldn't support their damage and future demise for our own enjoyment. We don't give a shit about them so let's just admit it. 

Back to the flower garden with your Gillette shirt 

[SHOOTER12 8789]

5 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

Pellets. Injected under the skin in the hip area dissolve slowly over time to release steady stream of T

Wow, never heard of that(option), not sure I'd care for that. Thanks Hulk.

[SHOOTER12 8789]

6 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

There's a pretty funny story about her in HG's book. You should check it out. 

HG? As in Gandorf?  Tell me about this book please.

[Junior Miller 1502]

14 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

Back to the flower garden with your Gillette shirt 

Actually I'm the opposite. If it's not my kid and you want to let your kid do it then I'll gladly not give a shit about them. I watch the games because just like everyone else here I don't give a fuck about these players. If they're willing to let themselves be brain dead for my entertainment then I'm all for it. 

I'm just being honest about it while everyone else acts like they give a fuck about then when they really dont. If they did they wouldn't watch or condone this sport. 

I want to see gladiators and blood and massive hits and I don't give a shit. 

[notre dame joe 173]

8 hours ago, sushihorn said:

For those who wish to see altered humans compete, they can probably watch cyborg sports leagues in a decade or two.

I think we'll watch one hoist a trophy Sunday night.

[Doc Sam Beckett 5785]

19 hours ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

Holy shit!

https://www.postandcourier.com/columnists/clemson-s-drug-probe-doesn-t-include-testing-all-football/article_6615cdf8-219d-11e9-9663-cfd49594d1b2.html

Lulz this is the conclusion you came to from reading an article with no new information? Hell, the gamecocks aren't even talking about this and they're more aggy than aggy. Sweet thread title though, it was absolutely worth it to find out that derkagoo believes only a few programs are juicing haha jfc

[Magus Ossis 2784]

We don’t know the true incidence of CTE in former NFL players, college players, or HS. We don’t know how it varies by position. We don’t know a lot of things about it. What we do know is that in a sample of brains donated for exam because of dementia, most had evidence of CTE. That is what is known as a biased sample. To say that we know enough about CTE to judge whether football enthusiasts care about players or whether steroids represent a reasonable risk is to step far beyond what the data can currently support.

[Goo Punch 4275]

What is the name of this book and where might one find a copy?

 

boom:

@shooter12 check it out

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Scooter Monzingo 820]

Lutz, who else remembers the story told by one of the announcers during the Championship game.about how Etinne was continually running out of gas last year late in the game? And how the coaches called him to the side and told him he had to resolve the issue if he wanted to be the go to guy. The bizarre part is he didn’t bother to elaborate on exactly how the young man managed to do that and become the 4th quarter work horse he currently is.

As soon as he told the story I looked around the room at the other 6 or 7 guys who never shut up during a game and everyone went silent. We all were fucking floored the guy had the balls to insinuate that it was the “coaches” who instructed him to either roid up or lose his spot.

Then throw in how Dabo and his staff are starting to look and sound an awful like Armstrong’s crew of merry men did before their shit blew up. Especially the bullshit on how something that is illegal just, you know, happened to get into their food or drinks.

On a positive note. We have one more data point on how Dabo went from “Clemsoning” against West Virginia, to beating Alabama’s ass at their own game.

[Doc Sam Beckett 5785]

1 hour ago, Scooter Monzingo said:

Lutz, who else remembers the story told by one of the announcers during the Championship game.about how Etinne was continually running out of gas last year late in the game? And how the coaches called him to the side and told him he had to resolve the issue if he wanted to be the go to guy. The bizarre part is he didn’t bother to elaborate on exactly how the young man managed to do that and become the 4th quarter work horse he currently is.

As soon as he told the story I looked around the room at the other 6 or 7 guys who never shut up during a game and everyone went silent. We all were fucking floored the guy had the balls to insinuate that it was the “coaches” who instructed him to either roid up or lose his spot.

Then throw in how Dabo and his staff are starting to look and sound an awful like Armstrong’s crew of merry men did before their shit blew up. Especially the bullshit on how something that is illegal just, you know, happened to get into their food or drinks.

On a positive note. We have one more data point on how Dabo went from “Clemsoning” against West Virginia, to beating Alabama’s ass at their own game.

 

Lulz yeah, think you caught them red handed! Travis Etienne, who was a true freshman last year, needed a cocktail of roids to carry the ball 100 more times this year. Bizarre how an extra year out of high school translates to such better performance. Even more bizarre is how Etienne is the only RB in college football who found these magic pills. 

All 8 of you were floored huh? Lulz, yeah roid up, or you're gone buddy! I know you averaged 7.2 ypc and had 12 touchdowns as a true freshman, but we aren't sure, so roid up or get the fuck out! 

[DigglerontheHoof 21080]

21 hours ago, JerryHubbard said:

As both a physician and the father of a Div I athlete, I can’t disagree more.

These are 18yo knuckleheads thrust into a very competitive environment. If steroids are the culture, most will participate or get left behind. And the medical downside for many will not be realized until years later. We are talking about the health of kids. Put me firmly in the “heavy testing, harsh penalty” crowd.

Good post and I agree.

My question is...how?  I don't know how steroid use is detected.  Does one have to be in a "cycle" to get caught?  If not, how long does it stay in someone's system?

I'm assuming medical science knows how to find it; so the next question is how can we ramp up testing for everyone, so that no one can game the system?  Is it economically feasible?  

Next question is...what is the penalty?   If you want to make it effective it should probably be:

1st offense - 1 year suspension 

2nd offense - banned from cfb forever

 

THAT would go a long way in making a dent.  Anything less is bullshit word masturbation. 

[CooterBrown 17943]

Put me in the not surprised if every NFL player isn't using designer steroids pool.

They are. Only truly dumb asses get caught because players are informed of their “random” test date months in advance.

[kopp0e 1135]

13 hours ago, Junior Miller said:

Actually I'm the opposite. If it's not my kid and you want to let your kid do it then I'll gladly not give a shit about them. I watch the games because just like everyone else here I don't give a fuck about these players. If they're willing to let themselves be brain dead for my entertainment then I'm all for it. 

I'm just being honest about it while everyone else acts like they give a fuck about then when they really dont. If they did they wouldn't watch or condone this sport. 

I want to see gladiators and blood and massive hits and I don't give a shit. 

I hope the best for all student-athletes, but...

If the athletes themselves don't care, why should we..? 

[Pam Cummings 9595]

12 minutes ago, kopp0e said:

I hope the best for all student-athletes, but...

If the athletes themselves don't care, why should we..? 

You would know the answer to that question if you just read the posts in the thread you maroon.

[jeevsie 3725]

20 hours ago, Bluemoon3287 said:

I give myself a steroid shot every week.....prescribed by my doctor (Testosterone - my body rejected 7 of 7 implants). The reason why is previous steroid use - about 4 years worth.  I am 57 years old and my nuts are the size of small grapes.  I make more estrogen than I do testosterone (naturally).  My dick apparently doesn’t work as well as all my friends around the same age. So talk to me about the brilliance of young men and the wisdom of their decisions.  It’s life altering and many don’t have the maturity to know it or to care. 

Hats off to you, sir.  Took a lot of balls to post that.

[SHOOTER12 8789]

Drugs are bad, Mkkay?

Question, as I had seen blood doping addressed up thread.   Basically what is it, and how is it detected?  Is it a part of the usual PED testing?

[blutow 222]

24 minutes ago, SHOOTER12 said:

Drugs are bad, Mkkay?

Question, as I had seen blood doping addressed up thread.   Basically what is it, and how is it detected?  Is it a part of the usual PED testing?

It's basically altering your blood to carry more oxygen to your muscles.  EPO is a drug used to do it, but it can also be done via blood transfusions where they use blood with higher red blood cell counts.  Athletes are doing transfusions with mini-fridges full of blood in hotel rooms, crazy stuff.  

Very common in endurance sports (cycling, running, speed skating, xc skiing, etc.), but it's not really going to help with strength and explosiveness like steroids do.  

It's tough to test for, because a transfusion is still all natural (no illegal drugs).  My understanding is that EPO (illegal) doesn't leave a marker or it dissipates so quickly that the chance of detecting it is very low.  The benefits last much longer.  The testing they do is to detect abnornally high hemocrit levels in the blood. The tricky part is determining what is normal because natural levels vary significantly.  I might have natural hemocrit of 43 and use EPO or transfusions to get close to 50 (the limit that triggers a positive), but some people have 50+ naturally.    

[SHOOTER12 8789]

11 minutes ago, blutow said:

It's basically altering your blood to carry more oxygen to your muscles.  EPO is a drug used to do it, but it can also be done via blood transfusions where they use blood with higher red blood cell counts.  Athletes are doing transfusions with mini-fridges full of blood in hotel rooms, crazy stuff.  

Very common in endurance sports (cycling, running, speed skating, xc skiing, etc.), but it's not really going to help with strength and explosiveness like steroids do.  

It's tough to test for, because a transfusion is still all natural (no illegal drugs).  My understanding is that EPO (illegal) doesn't leave a marker or it dissipates so quickly that the chance of detecting it is very low.  The benefits last much longer.  The testing they do is to detect abnornally high hemocrit levels in the blood. The tricky part is determining what is normal because natural levels vary significantly.  I might have natural hemocrit of 43 and use EPO or transfusions to get close to 50 (the limit that triggers a positive), but some people have 50+ naturally.    

Thanks, I was thinking somewhere along those lines but wasn't sure.  So riddle me this,  I mentioned in another thread that I have to have blood drawn monthly (1 to 1 1/2 pints) due to my body for some reason making to much blood resulting in very high red cell/hemoglobin counts.  Would something like that that occurs naturally(?)  trigger a positive test result?  If so, I wonder if anyone has been busted falsely?

Could athletes be tested for high red cell/hemoglobin to test for blood doping, as common or uncommon as it may be?

Edited January 30, 2019 by SHOOTER12

[blutow 222]

Yes, you would likely trigger a positive because your hematocrit is likely above 50 (take a look at one of your blood tests, hematocrit is almost always included).  Some people have naturally high levels and living at high altitude pushes it up a bit. 

If you were a world-class athlete subject to regular testing, you would likely have a "passport" that shows where your normal hematocrit levels are.  Your normal isn't the same as other people's normal. When you are tested, your hemotocrit is compared to the arbitrary trigger point (50), but also compared to your passport number.  So, you might get a pass at a level of 53 (assuming your normal is over 50), while someone else might be suspect at 48 (if their normal level is 41).  As you can imagine, this is a very hard thing to test for and it's somewhat arbitrary.  This type of testing is not reasonable except at the highest levels of sport, and you can understand how people continue work the system.  EPO was a primary drug of choice for Lance during his run of dominance and that's why he never tested positive.  

[irishtexan 11447]

I assume every football player does steroids.

But CTE is the reason that we should be testing pretty much everyone all the time. We really don't need these dudes making themselves any bigger, faster and stronger than they already are. 

[kopp0e 1135]

4 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

You would know the answer to that question if you just read the posts in the thread you maroon.

It would seem I was giving a rhetorical question, followed with an answer of my own opinion, but thanks for playing who wants to call someone a moron this morning, stay blessed my dude...

 

[BadgerHorn 147]

2 hours ago, SHOOTER12 said:

Thanks, I was thinking somewhere along those lines but wasn't sure.  So riddle me this,  I mentioned in another thread that I have to have blood drawn monthly (1 to 1 1/2 pints) due to my body for some reason making to much blood resulting in very high red cell/hemoglobin counts.  Would something like that that occurs naturally(?)  trigger a positive test result?  If so, I wonder if anyone has been busted falsely?

Could athletes be tested for high red cell/hemoglobin to test for blood doping, as common or uncommon as it may be?

1) SHOOTER12 has excess red blood cells

2) Find an unscrupulous, hemocompatible endurance athlete

3) ?

4) Profit

Edited January 30, 2019 by BadgerHorn
grammar

[HornsOverIthaca 2333]

On 1/29/2019 at 10:09 AM, bernorange said:

The all-drug olympics in Bogota where multiple world records have been shattered.

[SHOOTER12 8789]

2 hours ago, blutow said:

Yes, you would likely trigger a positive because your hematocrit is likely above 50 (take a look at one of your blood tests, hematocrit is almost always included).  Some people have naturally high levels and living at high altitude pushes it up a bit. 

If you were a world-class athlete subject to regular testing, you would likely have a "passport" that shows where your normal hematocrit levels are.  Your normal isn't the same as other people's normal. When you are tested, your hemotocrit is compared to the arbitrary trigger point (50), but also compared to your passport number.  So, you might get a pass at a level of 53 (assuming your normal is over 50), while someone else might be suspect at 48 (if their normal level is 41).  As you can imagine, this is a very hard thing to test for and it's somewhat arbitrary.  This type of testing is not reasonable except at the highest levels of sport, and you can understand how people continue work the system.  EPO was a primary drug of choice for Lance during his run of dominance and that's why he never tested positive.  

So, is 88-90 pretty bad?  I would think it would be, as they wanted  me down to around 45.

[HiggyBaby 2517]

[SHOOTER12 8789]

12 minutes ago, BadgerHorn said:

1) SHOOTER12 has excess red blood cells

2) Find an unscrupulous, hemocompatible endurance athlete

3) ?

4) Profit

The bad thing is that I take warfarin....nobody wants my blood 😦

[Cairn Horn88 8204]

Lance says....really?

[Magus Ossis 2784]

The classic disease that causes one to need blood drawn is polycythemia rubra vera. The way blood doping is screened, this would definitely trigger a positive that would have to be addressed as noted above.

EPO (erythropoietin) is legal but only by prescription. It is forbidden in sports because of the competitive advantage of blood that can carry more oxygen.

Steroids can be tested directly and by levels of metabolites. Hair follicle testing leaves a trail long after using. If the will were truly there to crack down on PED use, it could be dramatically reduced. The NCAA members and NFLPA want nothing to do with universal monthly third-party-performed hair follicle collection and storage in case of future allegations or failure of a screening test.

Head trauma could also be dramatically reduced if players wore "Dark Helmet-"sized helmets with multiple layers of soft cushion, firm cushion and shell. To protect necks, they would need to be hooked to a harness around the torso. People keep researching ways to try to get a similar effect without so cumbersome a device. It's physics: how to protect the brain from the accelerations (decelerations) resulting from jarring the skull.

Injury is unlikely to make football go away, but it may and likely will continue to result in change to the rules and the equipment.

[Bullneck 19027]

On 1/29/2019 at 12:00 AM, Hornius Emeritus said:

So, statistically, probably 19-20 players are juicing if three were caught in such a small sample.  I wonder how many of them were starters.

I wonder what we'd see if 100% of Bama's players were tested.

I've been wondering that myself.

[Bullneck 19027]

On 1/29/2019 at 10:30 AM, futureman said:

what the fuck do you have against people altering their bodies?

Because it makes you alter yours as well in order to be competitive.  And those alterations can cause damage. 

[futureman 22420]

3 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

Because it makes you alter yours as well in order to be competitive.  And those alterations can cause damage. 

I agree that alterations can be damaging. 

[JerryHubbard 282]

10 hours ago, SHOOTER12 said:

Question, as I had seen blood doping addressed up thread.   Basically what is it, and how is it detected?  Is it a part of the usual PED testing?

There is method of self blood doping where the athlete trains at altitude (in a low oxygen environment). The red blood cells increase their concentration of 2,3 DPG that decreases hemoglobin affinity for oxygen. That shifts the oxyhemoglobin dissociation curve to the right, allowing more oxygen to be delivered during exercise or competition.

The athlete can bag some of this blood and transfuse it before a competition at sea level.

[Hagbard Celine 10771]

On 1/29/2019 at 10:33 AM, Tex Long said:

Living in a society in which soldiers have been sent into battle wired to the tits for at least the last seventy-plus years, it ill behooves us to decry the identical behavior with pseudo-warriors of the same ages.

"Reality is whatever you can get away with," said Uncle Bob.

Praise Bob.  Praise the Laser Projekt.

[Tex Long 4355]

13 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

Praise Bob.  Praise the Laser Projekt.

PraBob indeed!

[F250 28716]

On 1/29/2019 at 11:40 AM, Bluemoon3287 said:

I give myself a steroid shot every week.....prescribed by my doctor (Testosterone - my body rejected 7 of 7 implants). The reason why is previous steroid use - about 4 years worth.  I am 57 years old and my nuts are the size of small grapes.  I make more estrogen than I do testosterone (naturally).  My dick apparently doesn’t work as well as all my friends around the same age. So talk to me about the brilliance of young men and the wisdom of their decisions.  It’s life altering and many don’t have the maturity to know it or to care. 

[MrPhlegm 3413]

Praise Bob.  Praise the Laser Projekt.

SLACK!

[CfRhTxStBobcats 600]

On 1/29/2019 at 8:46 AM, MrPhlegm said:

So Jack LaLane was right!

Don't know if Jack juiced, but some of his physical achievements were incredible. Especially in that era before fitness became so mainstream.

[CfRhTxStBobcats 600]

9 hours ago, SHOOTER12 said:

So, is 88-90 pretty bad?  I would think it would be, as they wanted  me down to around 45.

You are a walking stroke or heart attack waiting to happen. I never let mine get above 47 because my urologist stays on top of it. If you're going to one of those low-t centers, go to a good urologist for testosterone. You need to give blood asap and get those numbers down.

Spoke too soon, I see you already donate monthly. That's crazy you're levels are so high. How long does it take you to give blood with that red molasses running through your veins?

Edited January 31, 2019 by CfRhTxStBobcats

[SHOOTER12 8789]

6 hours ago, CfRhTxStBobcats said:

You are a walking stroke or heart attack waiting to happen. I never let mine get above 47 because my urologist stays on top of it. If you're going to one of those low-t centers, go to a good urologist for testosterone. You need to give blood asap and get those numbers down.

Spoke too soon, I see you already donate monthly. That's crazy you're levels are so high. How long does it take you to give blood with that red molasses running through your veins?

Well, considering that I'm on warfarin and have veins like pipes,  not long.😁

[SHOOTER12 8789]

Damned edit button,  usually takes about 10-15 minutes.

[TexasMan 10786]

Whoopsie daisy

 

 

 

 

Quote

Dabo Swinney says Clemson may have mistakenly provided PEDs

ByBRAD CRAWFORD 6 minutes ago

 

Clemson may have mistakenly provided performance-enhancing drugs to players, Tigers coach Dabo Swinney acknowledged to The Post and Courier on Saturday.

Defensive tackle Dexter Lawrence, offensive lineman Zach Giella and tight end Braden Gallowayfailed an NCAA drug test ahead of the College Football Playoff Semifinal against Notre Dame in December and did not play in the postseason after testing positive for ostarine.

“Oh yeah, I mean, there’s a chance that it could come from anything,” Swinney said when asked if it’s possible the players ingested ostarine in a Clemson-issued supplement. “They’re going to test everything and look at everything. And that’s the problem. As you really look at this stuff, it could be a contaminant that came from anything, that was something that was cleared and not a problem, and all of a sudden, it becomes there was something.”

It's been over a month since Clemson appealed the three player suspensions to the NCAA and the university is still awaiting word on how the banned substance made its way to players.

Swinney told The Post and Courier that the process is out of his hands and that the university’s legal team is still looking into all possibilities, which includes the chance that Clemson gave the players something the athletic department thought was cleared by the NCAA.

“It’s a huge undertaking, and I really have not been in that loop,” Swinney said of the appeal process, via The State. “I’ve gone and seen Dan maybe like a minute here and a minute there over the last several weeks. I now that they’re all working through that.”

Lawrence has entered the NFL Draft while Galloway and Giella are ineligible to play in games (but can practice) until Clemson's appeal is complete.

"Ostarine is a product used to boost muscle growth and prevent muscle wasting, which is a result you would normally expect from steroids," according to MYNVFI.org. "However, Ostarine differs from traditional anabolic steroids in the way it affects your body. Most notably, with Ostarine you can avoid some of the most common unwanted side effects of steroids."

 

[Magus Ossis 2784]

Ostarine is not approved by FDA to be prescribed or sold in the US despite an application's having been filed. It is thus not legal to sell it. Ostarine in your supplement is not a random "contaminant" like trace minerals in your bottled water. It is a designer drug that is only present in supplements intentionally containing it. There could possibly be contamination if someone were procuring supplements from a large-scale illegal ostarine provider from whom he had ordered legal supplements. Either the Clemson players (or their trainers, nutritionists, etc) were deliberately taking illegal PEDs, or they order their supplements from a large-scale illegal drug operation. Nothing may come of this, but it is almost unquestionably not innocent.

[Sejjr 3246]

Poor Dabo. He didn't know. Was probably at a bible study or something when the tainted supplements arrived.

[Tex Pete 20190]

“Mistakenly.”

Man, I hate it when I accidentally cheat by taking substances that aren’t legally available. Such bad luck. 

[Fondren & Main 6675]

5 hours ago, Magus Ossis said:

Ostarine is not approved by FDA to be prescribed or sold in the US despite an application's having been filed. It is thus not legal to sell it. Ostarine in your supplement is not a random "contaminant" like trace minerals in your bottled water. It is a designer drug that is only present in supplements intentionally containing it. There could possibly be contamination if someone were procuring supplements from a large-scale illegal ostarine provider from whom he had ordered legal supplements. Either the Clemson players (or their trainers, nutritionists, etc) were deliberately taking illegal PEDs, or they order their supplements from a large-scale illegal drug operation. Nothing may come of this, but it is almost unquestionably not innocent.

Well, except, you’re wrong.  The data is already there regarding MULTIPLE UFC fighters...

[52-80 19108]

1 minute ago, Fondren & Main said:

Well, except, you’re wrong.  The data is already there regarding MULTIPLE UFC fighters...

Yeah, those wrestler and combat athletes accidentally ingest tainted supplements all the time.  Why would they ever need to take PEDs

[Magus Ossis 2784]

3 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

Well, except, you’re wrong.  The data is already there regarding MULTIPLE UFC fighters...

I am wrong that it is a synthetic drug, that it is illegal, or in my conclusion that therefore it is obtained only from sources that traffic in illegal drugs? I am guessing number three. Has it been documented to be present in legitimately produced and marketed supplements? I’d be surprised but am willing to look at the evidence.

[Napoleon 8618]

5 hours ago, Magus Ossis said:

Ostarine is not approved by FDA to be prescribed or sold in the US despite an application's having been filed. It is thus not legal to sell it. Ostarine in your supplement is not a random "contaminant" like trace minerals in your bottled water. It is a designer drug that is only present in supplements intentionally containing it. There could possibly be contamination if someone were procuring supplements from a large-scale illegal ostarine provider from whom he had ordered legal supplements. Either the Clemson players (or their trainers, nutritionists, etc) were deliberately taking illegal PEDs, or they order their supplements from a large-scale illegal drug operation. Nothing may come of this, but it is almost unquestionably not innocent.

In late December I asked a doctor friend about "Enobosarm" (a.k.a. "Ostarine"). She is a doctor and does medical research for a living, publishing in several medical journals each year.

Research MD asked: "Why? Are you taking it?"

Napoleon: "I read about some athletes being suspended for having traces of it in their system, so I looked it up to see what it was."

Research MD responded: "It's not on the market. It's only in some supplements -- failed phase III trials. No sane person would take it."

It looks like you have to search for this shit just to get it in your system. It's doesn't seem like it "just shows up". Perhaps Magnus Ossis can explain what "failing phase III trials" means in laymen's terms.
 

[Fondren & Main 6675]

8 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Yeah, those wrestler and combat athletes accidentally ingest tainted supplements all the time.  Why would they ever need to take PEDs

Yeah, well, you’ve made yourself look like a dumbass here.  Tim Means was suspended by USADA for PED’s.  This is a fact.  His suspension was overturned after USADA went to GNC and bought the suspected tainted supplement and sent it to a lab resulting in a positive test for the exact PED that he was suspended for.  So, there is definitely a precedent here.

[52-80 19108]

4 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

Yeah, well, you’ve made yourself look like a dumbass here.  Tim Means was suspended by USADA for PED’s.  This is a fact.  His suspension was overturned after USADA went to GNC and bought the suspected tainted supplement and sent it to a lab resulting in a positive test for the exact PED that he was suspended for.  So, there is definitely a precedent here.

Cool story.  And Sean o malley, Marvin vettori, Tom Lawler, and others popped for it and couldn't prove any tainted supplement excuse.  People just freely sprinkle ostarine in Flintstones chewables all the time.