Tommy Nobis and CTE

[futureman 22,464]

7 minutes ago, Native Horn said:

The article clearly states that Nobis had the severest form of CTE, which is caused by repeated blows to the head.  And which explains the behaviors he exhibited.  

all it shows is that he had CTE.  it doesn’t explain anything.  

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

21 hours ago, Richard Kimball said:

In his book, Time Enough to Win, Roger Staubach disclosed that he took a baseline neurological test prior to his career and repeated it after every season. The first time the test came back with an indication of a decline, he retired. He said the decline was a tiny decline in his twitch reaction. He did this on his own, and not with the team. He's approaching 77 now and still appears mentally sound. 

Doing baseline and annual neurological testing on athletes would lead to shorter careers and longer lives. It's not a cure all, as some damage won't show up until years later, but athletes will hide symptoms. When a decline shows up, retirement should be mandatory. 

Slorch thinks Roger Staubach is a pussy.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

31 minutes ago, futureman said:

all it shows is that he had CTE.  it doesn’t explain anything.  

Alzheimers and CTE aren't the same thing.  You get CTE from prolonged cranial impact and multiple concussions.  

It's not a coincidence in 9,999,999 out of a 1,000,000.  We're going to see many many more in the coming years.

[Tex Long 4,400]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Alzheimers and CTE aren't the same thing.  You get CTE from prolonged cranial impact and multiple concussions.  

It's not a coincidence in 9,999,999 out of a 1,000,000.  We're going to see many many more in the coming years.

9,999,999 out of 1,000,000? Say... you aren't a lawyer, by any chance?

[capnamerca 571]

49 minutes ago, futureman said:

all it shows is that he had CTE.  it doesn’t explain anything.  

You're playing the card that the two aren't related? This disease that is pretty universally understood to arise from repeated blows to the head (especially cumulative effects of lots and lots and lots of small blows, rather than one single traumatic event)? And it having a link to a game where you literally  put on a helmet and run your head into other people, starting at a young age? Bold move, Cotton. Although I guess you're probably right, I'm not really convinced that smoking leads to increased risks of lung cancer. I mean, I know lots of smokers that don't have lung cancer!

Edited January 30, 2019 by capnamerca

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

12 minutes ago, Tex Long said:

9,999,999 out of 1,000,000? Say... you aren't a lawyer, by any chance?

D'oh.....  999,999.999 out of 1,000,000

 

I hate the maths.............

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

futureman logic is an amazing thing to witness.

[Tex Long 4,400]

22 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

D'oh.....  999,999.999 out of 1,000,000

 

I hate the maths.............

I'll take that as a Yes...

[PRONG HORN 3,146]

20 hours ago, SHOOTER12 said:

Did you read the families account of life with him?  No, I didn't think so.

 

Yeah I read it.  Sad.  It wasn't football.  It was already in him.  Football probably did damage his brain, but it didn't make him who he is.  Seau killed himself.  Nobis terrified children etc.   A person can still choose.  

[capnamerca 571]

3 minutes ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

Yeah I read it.  Sad.  It wasn't football.  It was already in him.  Football probably did damage his brain, but it didn't make him who he is.  Seau killed himself.  Nobis terrified children etc.   A person can still choose.  

wwwwwow.

[PRONG HORN 3,146]

1 minute ago, capnamerca said:

wwwwwow.

 

You think the brain damage took his ability to choose his  actions?  The only thing fueling his behavior was a sick and damaged brain?  He was totally gone, a vegetable unable to choose?  Sounds like our hero was a bit of an A hole and some people want to place all the blame on football.  

[AUinHsv 579]

6 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Slorch thinks Roger Staubach is a pussy.

I believe that was Alex Hawkins who said something like that on air - about the last time he was heard on air

[capnamerca 571]

Just now, PRONG HORN said:

 

You think the brain damage took his ability to choose his  actions?  The only thing fueling his behavior was a sick and damaged brain?  He was totally gone, a vegetable unable to choose?  Sounds like our hero was a bit of an A hole and some people want to place all the blame on football.  

I don't pretend to know your station in life, or your experiences. I can only talk to mine. Having seen my grandfather gradually succumb to dementia is something that will stay with me forever. This man built houses for forty years. At times, quite literally by himself. Farm stock from Ohio, never depended on anyone for anything a day in his life, until suddenly he couldn't feed himself anymore. Fell in the bathroom. Stopped being able to drive. Couldn't sign his name to a check, lost control of his finances, accused his oldest son of stealing money (when in truth, my dad was paying for his care from the bank account that he'd been given stewardship of). HIS BRAIN CHANGED. My grandfather wasn't an asshole. He saw both of my kids born, he was Santa Claus at Christmas, he traveled thousands of miles a year to see our family in Ohio, North Carolina, Tennessee, Florida and Texas. And at the end, he wasn't that guy any more. HIS BRAIN CHANGED.

Another family friend was textbook alzheimers. Assistant chief of police at the University of Texas for decades. He probably arrested and/or lectured SEVERAL people on this website, in fact :). This man couldn't remember the names and faces of his own children and grandchildren. HIS BRAIN CHANGED.

CTE changes the brain. It's selfish, short-sighted, and irresponsible for you to equate CTE with "oh, that guy was just always an asshole" because you like gladiator circuses every Sunday.

[PRONG HORN 3,146]

14 minutes ago, capnamerca said:

HIS BRAIN CHANGED.

 

You didn't have to capitalize just for dramatic effect did you?  Doc just posted a link that clearly states the pathophysiology etc. is different in CTE than it is in Dementia.  They effect the brain differently.  I just want to know if you think the damage made Nobis go ape shit on a two year old.  Do you think he had no choice at all?  Do you think he could have stopped himself?  

[CooterBrown 18,014]

futureman logic is an amazing thing to witness.

Logic isn’t what I’d call that.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18,549]

11 minutes ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

You didn't have to capitalize just for dramatic effect did you?  Doc just posted a link that clearly states the pathophysiology etc. is different in CTE than it is in Dementia.  They effect the brain differently.  I just want to know if you think the damage made Nobis go ape shit on a two year old.  Do you think he had no choice at all?  Do you think he could have stopped himself?  

So your stance is that mental illness isn't really an illness, it's a choice? 

[YChang 3,446]

There's still so much about how our brain works that scientist are still discovering. For those that are skeptical about CTE and it's impact on behavior... it's quite possible Nobis didn't have a choice as he aged and the effects of the disease worsened because it may not even be a conscious act for him by then. 

[capnamerca 571]

10 minutes ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

You didn't have to capitalize just for dramatic effect did you?  Doc just posted a link that clearly states the pathophysiology etc. is different in CTE than it is in Dementia.  They effect the brain differently.  I just want to know if you think the damage made Nobis go ape shit on a two year old.  Do you think he had no choice at all?  Do you think he could have stopped himself?  

Yes. The I 100% believe CTE changed Nobis' ability to emotionally regulate himself. It doesn't absolve him of responsibility; the article is pretty clear that no one that knew him liked him much after football, but it seems a little willfully absurd to think that he was just choosing to be an asshole for fun, to his entire family and everyone that ever knew him.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

52 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

Logic isn’t what I’d call that.

I'm not sure how you could argue with:

My Grandmom has dementia so football can't cause brain trauma.

[PRONG HORN 3,146]

1 hour ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

So your stance is that mental illness isn't really an illness, it's a choice? 

 

Mental illness doesn't choose for us.  Is that how you feel about child molesters?  They have no real ability to stop playing with kids because their illness has left them incapable of choosing?

[SHOOTER12 8,810]

4 minutes ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

Mental illness doesn't choose for us.  Is that how you feel about child molesters?  They have no real ability to stop playing with kids because their illness has left them incapable of choosing?

No offense, but that is an apples to eggplants comparision.

[PRONG HORN 3,146]

1 hour ago, capnamerca said:

Yes. The I 100% believe CTE changed Nobis' ability to emotionally regulate himself. It doesn't absolve him of responsibility; the article is pretty clear that no one that knew him liked him much after football, but it seems a little willfully absurd to think that he was just choosing to be an asshole for fun, to his entire family and everyone that ever knew him.

 

You're choosing to arbitrarily 100% believe that CTE took his ability to choose how he would react to his emotional flux.  Let science make that determination.    

[PRONG HORN 3,146]

1 minute ago, SHOOTER12 said:

No offense, but that is an apples to eggplants comparision.

 

And I suppose the molesters are the eggplants?  You barbarian.  

[SHOOTER12 8,810]

2 minutes ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

And I suppose the molesters are the eggplants?  You barbarian.  

I'm a sorry sob, not a barbarian.

[Tex Long 4,400]

1 hour ago, SHOOTER12 said:

I'm a sorry sob, not a barbarian.

You can be a sorry SOB and a Barbarian, as long as you quit shaving.

[SHOOTER12 8,810]

2 minutes ago, Tex Long said:

You can be a sorry SOB and a Barbarian, as long as you quit shaving.

Welp, I've got it covered then.

[Tex Long 4,400]

4 minutes ago, SHOOTER12 said:

Welp, I've got it covered then.

All good, Ali Baba.

[SHOOTER12 8,810]

7 minutes ago, Tex Long said:

All good, Ali Baba.

More like Satan Claus, lulz

[Tex Long 4,400]

1 minute ago, SHOOTER12 said:

More like Satan Claus, lulz

So... Beard and a tail?

[SHOOTER12 8,810]

9 hours ago, Tex Long said:

So... Beard and a tail?

No tail, but do have cloven hooves...

[capnamerca 571]

13 hours ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

You're choosing to arbitrarily 100% believe that CTE took his ability to choose how he would react to his emotional flux.  Let science make that determination.    

Not arbitrarily. I'm believing the science that says CTE is in the family of influences that include Alzheimers and dementia, in that physical changes to portions of the brain are highly correlated with behavioral changes. You know, from doctors and stuff. I'm also not sure what the "100%" is supposed to imply, because I"m not waving my hand and absolving Nobis (or Seau, or others) of their behavior, I'm just acknowledging that there are a set of inputs involved in their decision making beyond just "self control." There's an analogy here to alcoholism, bi-polar disorder, ADHD, etc - they're still all making choices (to drive, to fidget, etc) but science has proven that there are other inputs in their brains that make their decision making more difficult, and there are treatments for those situations that vastly improve their quality of life. In the case of CTE, that treatment is "maybe don't play football ..." which is something we have to seriously consider as rational adults.

 

Very honestly, I can't see your angle here. What are you actually arguing? That the game is safe? That the data doesn't show that repeated head injuries cause behavioral changes? (forget "CTE" as a target ... people with multiple concussions very consistently report changes in mood, behavior, emotional regulation, and more than just football. Soccer players are apparently VERY affected).

Edited January 31, 2019 by capnamerca

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

9 minutes ago, capnamerca said:

Not arbitrarily. I'm believing the science that says CTE is in the family of influences that include Alzheimers and dementia, in that physical changes to portions of the brain are highly correlated with behavioral changes. You know, from doctors and stuff. I'm also not sure what the "100%" is supposed to imply, because I"m not waving my hand and absolving Nobis (or Seau, or others) of their behavior, I'm just acknowledging that there are a set of inputs involved in their decision making beyond just "self control." There's an analogy here to alcoholism, bi-polar disorder, ADHD, etc - they're still all making choices (to drive, to fidget, etc) but science has proven that there are other inputs in their brains that make their decision making more difficult, and there are treatments for those situations that vastly improve their quality of life. In the case of CTE, that treatment is "maybe don't play football ..." which is something we have to seriously consider as rational adults.

 

Very honestly, I can't see your angle here. What are you actually arguing? That the game is safe? That the data doesn't show that repeated head injuries cause behavioral changes? (forget "CTE" as a target ... people with multiple concussions very consistently report changes in mood, behavior, emotional regulation, and more than just football. Soccer players are apparently VERY affected).

I call it whistling past the graveyard........

[Felix 607]

I call it trolling.

[capnamerca 571]

12 minutes ago, Felix said:

I call it trolling.

Yeah, but at least I look like the reasonable one, which is rare :).

You got any more of that family moonshine?

[Felix 607]

I have a jar.  My bro has been working out of state for a while so pickin's are slim right now.  I'm hoarding it.

[Felix 607]

Come to think of it, that might cause CTE/Dementia.

 

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

Just now, Felix said:

Come to think of it, that might cause CTE/Dementia.

 

Ahhhhhh, but what a way to go.........

[Felix 607]

Could be worse!

[capnamerca 571]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Ahhhhhh, but what a way to go.........

I know I still haven't recovered. One eyebrow will always be slightly smaller than the other after getting my face too close to the mason jar.

[YChang 3,446]

Not sure if already posted but an interesting story about CTE:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/31/sports/cte-football-hairston-super-bowl.html?action=click&module=Editors Picks&pgtype=Homepage

 

 

[PRONG HORN 3,146]

8 hours ago, capnamerca said:

Not arbitrarily. I'm believing the science that says CTE is in the family of influences that include Alzheimers and dementia, in that physical changes to portions of the brain are highly correlated with behavioral changes. You know, from doctors and stuff. I'm also not sure what the "100%" is supposed to imply, because I"m not waving my hand and absolving Nobis (or Seau, or others) of their behavior,  I'm just acknowledging that there are a set of inputs involved in their decision making beyond just "self control." There's an analogy here to alcoholism, bi-polar disorder, ADHD, etc - they're still all making choices (to drive, to fidget, etc) but science has proven that there are other inputs in their brains that make their decision making more difficult, and there are treatments for those situations that vastly improve their quality of life. In the case of CTE, that treatment is "maybe don't play football ..." which is something we have to seriously consider as rational adults.

 

Very honestly, I can't see your angle here. What are you actually arguing? That the game is safe? That the data doesn't show that repeated head injuries cause behavioral changes? (forget "CTE" as a target ... people with multiple concussions very consistently report changes in mood, behavior, emotional regulation, and more than just football. Soccer players are apparently VERY affected).

 

Are you saying that because some of the symptoms of CTE are personality changes, and aggression, that it means that they are a direct and unavoidable result of the disease itself.  They're symptoms for now.  I believe that for now, with the science still incomplete on the subject, that the aggression and personality changes are more likely the result of choices made.  It's like if someone who is experiencing stress, pain, and depression decides to lash out at a two year old.  We don't blame the stress, pain, and depression.  Those are only the symptoms.  A person still chooses to react.  Whatever that reaction may be, it's a result of a choice.

You're also jumping around quite a bit with what you're trying to say starting at post #60 (how interesting) when you first reacted to one of my statements.  Do you believe that football and especially CTE made his choices for him in his after football life?  You also said in this thread that you know people who smoke but who don't have lung cancer.  Do you know people with CTE who don't blow up on children?  Do you think it's possible to have CTE and not blow up on a kid?  You typed that the disease makes "their decision making more difficult".  So it seems that you agree that Nobis was making choices.  That's why I'm confused about your reaction to post 60.  Do you think that the symptom of aggression is an actual result of the disease removing the individuals ability to choose how to react to a circumstance which could cause someone to be aggressive?

Also, in some posts it seems you want to believe that whatever Nobis did in the interaction with the two year old in the article is the disease.  My stance is that he made a choice while experiencing some of the symptoms caused by the disease.  

 

 

 

[bullet 1,597]

4 hours ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

Are you saying that because some of the symptoms of CTE are personality changes, and aggression, that it means that they are a direct and unavoidable result of the disease itself.  They're symptoms for now.  I believe that for now, with the science still incomplete on the subject, that the aggression and personality changes are more likely the result of choices made.  It's like if someone who is experiencing stress, pain, and depression decides to lash out at a two year old.  We don't blame the stress, pain, and depression.  Those are only the symptoms.  A person still chooses to react.  Whatever that reaction may be, it's a result of a choice.

You're also jumping around quite a bit with what you're trying to say starting at post #60 (how interesting) when you first reacted to one of my statements.  Do you believe that football and especially CTE made his choices for him in his after football life?  You also said in this thread that you know people who smoke but who don't have lung cancer.  Do you know people with CTE who don't blow up on children?  Do you think it's possible to have CTE and not blow up on a kid?  You typed that the disease makes "their decision making more difficult".  So it seems that you agree that Nobis was making choices.  That's why I'm confused about your reaction to post 60.  Do you think that the symptom of aggression is an actual result of the disease removing the individuals ability to choose how to react to a circumstance which could cause someone to be aggressive?

Also, in some posts it seems you want to believe that whatever Nobis did in the interaction with the two year old in the article is the disease.  My stance is that he made a choice while experiencing some of the symptoms caused by the disease.  

 

 

 

You make the choice to be ignorant.  If you read the article and read about the changes in him, you might not be so willing to make yourself look like an idiot.  Or maybe you are a victim of CTE and can't concentrate.

 

One things for certain.  You have absolutely zero experience with anyone who had dementia or Alzheimer's or CTE.

[PRONG HORN 3,146]

17 minutes ago, bullet said:

You make the choice to be ignorant.  If you read the article and read about the changes in him, you might not be so willing to make yourself look like an idiot.  Or maybe you are a victim of CTE and can't concentrate.

 

One things for certain.  You have absolutely zero experience with anyone who had dementia or Alzheimer's or CTE.

 

You mentioned the "changes in him"  Were these changes choices or was the CTE making the choices?  Do you see what I'm asking?  I actually have a lot of experience with two immediate relatives with dementia and other brain issues.  They never lost the ability to be kind even when they felt like shit.  Maybe Nobis lost that ability.  What do you think?  

[Magus Ossis 2,800]

On 1/30/2019 at 4:06 PM, PRONG HORN said:

 

Yeah I read it.  Sad.  It wasn't football.  It was already in him.  Football probably did damage his brain, but it didn't make him who he is.  Seau killed himself.  Nobis terrified children etc.   A person can still choose.  

 

On 1/30/2019 at 4:15 PM, PRONG HORN said:

 

You think the brain damage took his ability to choose his  actions?  The only thing fueling his behavior was a sick and damaged brain?  He was totally gone, a vegetable unable to choose?  Sounds like our hero was a bit of an A hole and some people want to place all the blame on football.  

 

On 1/30/2019 at 4:40 PM, PRONG HORN said:

 

You didn't have to capitalize just for dramatic effect did you?  Doc just posted a link that clearly states the pathophysiology etc. is different in CTE than it is in Dementia.  They effect the brain differently.  I just want to know if you think the damage made Nobis go ape shit on a two year old.  Do you think he had no choice at all?  Do you think he could have stopped himself?  

 

On 1/30/2019 at 6:34 PM, PRONG HORN said:

 

Mental illness doesn't choose for us.  Is that how you feel about child molesters?  They have no real ability to stop playing with kids because their illness has left them incapable of choosing?

 

On 1/30/2019 at 6:40 PM, PRONG HORN said:

 

You're choosing to arbitrarily 100% believe that CTE took his ability to choose how he would react to his emotional flux.  Let science make that determination.    

 

On 1/30/2019 at 6:40 PM, PRONG HORN said:

 

And I suppose the molesters are the eggplants?  You barbarian.  

 

4 hours ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

Are you saying that because some of the symptoms of CTE are personality changes, and aggression, that it means that they are a direct and unavoidable result of the disease itself.  They're symptoms for now.  I believe that for now, with the science still incomplete on the subject, that the aggression and personality changes are more likely the result of choices made.  It's like if someone who is experiencing stress, pain, and depression decides to lash out at a two year old.  We don't blame the stress, pain, and depression.  Those are only the symptoms.  A person still chooses to react.  Whatever that reaction may be, it's a result of a choice.

You're also jumping around quite a bit with what you're trying to say starting at post #60 (how interesting) when you first reacted to one of my statements.  Do you believe that football and especially CTE made his choices for him in his after football life?  You also said in this thread that you know people who smoke but who don't have lung cancer.  Do you know people with CTE who don't blow up on children?  Do you think it's possible to have CTE and not blow up on a kid?  You typed that the disease makes "their decision making more difficult".  So it seems that you agree that Nobis was making choices.  That's why I'm confused about your reaction to post 60.  Do you think that the symptom of aggression is an actual result of the disease removing the individuals ability to choose how to react to a circumstance which could cause someone to be aggressive?

Also, in some posts it seems you want to believe that whatever Nobis did in the interaction with the two year old in the article is the disease.  My stance is that he made a choice while experiencing some of the symptoms caused by the disease.  

 

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

You mentioned the "changes in him"  Were these changes choices or was the CTE making the choices?  Do you see what I'm asking?  I actually have a lot of experience with two immediate relatives with dementia and other brain issues.  They never lost the ability to be kind even when they felt like shit.  Maybe Nobis lost that ability.  What do you think?  

1. You are wrong.

2. Post less tearing down those who can’t defend themselves, especially in cases covered by (1) above.

3. Everyone responds to brain disease differently, but there are a number of known patterns. Chronic progressive encephalopathies like CTE impair function of the amygdala and prefrontal cortex, among others. This is a biological change to actual brain tissue that would otherwise perform functions like regulating emotions and exercising restraint. People with advanced disease frequently have their rights curtailed and are assigned custodians as if they were children. God alone knows exactly how bad Nobis’ or anyone else’s disease is until autopsy, but the history I read suggests that Tommy Nobis suffered from a long and devastating biological loss of brain function.

4. If you have actual medical training that qualifies you to question the scientific literature on this topic, I am all ears. Otherwise, let’s please stick with the science and drop the personal attacks. Let us please extend them the benefit of the doubt and Mortui requiescant in pace.

[PRONG HORN 3,146]

53 minutes ago, Magus Ossis said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. You are wrong.

2. Post less tearing down those who can’t defend themselves, especially in cases covered by (1) above.

3. Everyone responds to brain disease differently, but there are a number of known patterns. Chronic progressive encephalopathies like CTE impair function of the amygdala and prefrontal cortex, among others. This is a biological change to actual brain tissue that would otherwise perform functions like regulating emotions and exercising restraint. People with advanced disease frequently have their rights curtailed and are assigned custodians as if they were children. God alone knows exactly how bad Nobis’ or anyone else’s disease is until autopsy, but the history I read suggests that Tommy Nobis suffered from a long and devastating biological loss of brain function.

4. If you have actual medical training that qualifies you to question the scientific literature on this topic, I am all ears. Otherwise, let’s please stick with the science and drop the personal attacks. Let us please extend them the benefit of the doubt and Mortui requiescant in pace.

 

 

Smart post but I don't think you read everything I said.  I've been saying that we don't know until science gives us an answer.  Until then, It's my opinion that when confronted with the fork in the road of choosing to be kind, or be an ass, he chose ass a good amount of the time.  I'm posting these opinions here because of the thread title.  So what's your opinion Magus?  Does damage from CTE in it's most advanced cases remove the ability to choose one's actions and responses?  

[Magus Ossis 2,800]

2 minutes ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

Smart post but I don't think you read everything I said.  I've been saying that we don't know until science gives us an answer.  Until then, It's my opinion that when confronted with the fork in the road of choosing to be kind, or be an ass, he chose ass a good amount of the time.  I'm posting these opinions here because of the thread title.  So what's your opinion Magus?  Does damage from CTE in it's most advanced cases remove the ability to choose one's actions and responses?  

Yes. Have you seen someone with a tremor? They aren’t choosing to shake. Motor function, emotion, speech; it is all run from the brain. Grand Mal seizures are more profound than mild baseline chorea, and impaired inhibitions are not as severe as total prefrontal dysfunction. The disease progresses. If you are a dualist, the disease disconnects the body (mouth, etc) from the soul. If you are a materialist, the process of consciousness progressively breaks down.

[PRONG HORN 3,146]

I think a lot of the guys with CTE won't get old enough to completely lose the connection.  Eventually I think that last thread connecting his intent with the ability to act on that intent may have snapped, but thankfully his never did.  He never got physical as far as we know.  He knew when to quit.  He knew when to choose to limit his rage and aggression.  As far as I know there is not a lot of research or data to show that the ability to choose completely disappears.

 

 

[SHOOTER12 8,810]

2 hours ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

Smart post but I don't think you read everything I said.  I've been saying that we don't know until science gives us an answer.  Until then, It's my opinion that when confronted with the fork in the road of choosing to be kind, or be an ass, he chose ass a good amount of the time.  I'm posting these opinions here because of the thread title.  So what's your opinion Magus?  Does damage from CTE in it's most advanced cases remove the ability to choose one's actions and responses?  

Brain damage=impaired cognitive function=poor decisions. A, B, C.  Few words to the point.

[Machinator 32,099]

From Nobis' daughter: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/football-nfl-were-my-dad-s-world-head-injuries-intrinsic-ncna966041

Football and the NFL were my dad's world. But the head injuries intrinsic to the game ruined his life.

American football — a simple game in which a pig-skinned ball is thrown by muscle-bound men and one of the most popular and lucrative sporting activities in this country — is often marketed as a reflection of the brutal Roman gladiators, armed men who fought for the entertainment of crowds of people. The gladiators fought with spears and swords; American football players often use their heads (which house one of our most important organs) as their weapon in combat. Gladiators ultimately lost their lives in bloody combat; American football players often first lose their minds and then, ultimately, their lives.

My dad, Tommy Nobis, was one such fighter.

He had a lot of nicknames in his life: The Gentle Giant, Big Red, #60, Mr. Falcon, Huckleberry Finn with muscles, cowboy, Daddy, Good Samaritan. And there were so many other words to describe him: Prankster, dedicated, strong, humble, intense, unstable, full of rage, scared, paranoid, lost, sad, childlike and despondent.

But what we know now is that maybe none of us got to know the man he really was or could’ve been: A pathology report completed by Boston University’s CTE center after his death shows that he had stage four chronic traumatic encephalopathy, the most severe version of a condition caused by repeated blows to the head, and the worst the center had ever seen.

American football is an integral part of our society: It is our entertainment on a crisp fall Friday night, Saturday morning and Sunday afternoon; we use it to teach our children discipline, competition, and teamwork. It is the result of a strong brotherhood lured by the thrill of the battle; it is a diversion from the rest of our mundane lives.

Football was the air my father breathed, and therefore the air we as his family breathed. It was my father’s identity, career, passion, and ultimately the cause of his death. He was trained to hit with his head, and he was good at it. From little league football to the National Football League, he played with reckless abandon. But every tackle was one more insult to his brain, which eventually became a muddled mess (not to mention his body).

Many memories of a childhood as my father’s daughter are as lost to me now as they were to my father before he passed; when you spend your early years on the defense, your only focus is to get through the experience, not delight in the moment. My father’s outbursts were not discussed but “brushed under the rug,” after which life went on without apologies.

Maybe he picked that up at work: A lineman who, at full speed, launches himself at his opponent knows that pain and injury might be a byproduct of the attack, but the harder the attack the better, and no apologies. But no one tells his family of the need for armor; we learned that the hard way

My father’s ability to remember anything faded slowly. As a motivational speaker, he was able to fool those who listened to him from the podium because he had a script, which was similar to his life. But, eventually, even having script began to fail him.

In his spare time, he helped found the Tommy Nobis Center — his second love — to help people with disabilities. But despite his love for the work, he had to scale back his participation in his last 10 years, and was unable to be involved at all for the last 5 years of his life.

Meanwhile, he became hostile and, many times violent. During his brief moments of clarity, he became more depressed about the reality of his loss of control. He became less “good” at things he used to be great at, like being a father or grandfather. In fact, for a period of 2 years, his children made the difficult decision to separate ourselves from my father’s volatile and aggressive behavior to protect our own kids.

By the end, my dad had lost the ability to remember where he lived, where he went to church, what meal he had eaten last. Before his death, he lived many days in a fog. Some days, we would find him in his favorite chair, either staring at the television or into space. Others, I’d wonder why my father had spent so many hours in the yard raking and sweeping; now I realize that it is a mindless activity. He was lost.

Chronic traumatic encephalopathy, caused by a career doing the thing he loved, robbed my father of his life long before he died. Although he finally lost his last battle at the age of 74, he fought like a gladiator with CTE for nearly half of those years. He was a true warrior who lived a life of humility, never crying out for the help we now know he deeply needed.

CTE has far reaching effects: Violence, crime, substance abuse, paranoia, depression and, ultimately, death. I find it increasingly difficult to believe that the game of football is worth it.

One day, maybe Americans become as wise as the Emperor Honorius, who closed the gladiator schools and ultimately prohibited gladiator contests. If we can’t end the game, then let’s at least stand firm to change this gladiator-like sport that calls our sons, brothers, husbands and fathers to sacrifice their lives for our passing entertainment. Our children would benefit; I know I would have.

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On 1/31/2019 at 11:44 PM, Magus Ossis said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. You are wrong.

2. Post less tearing down those who can’t defend themselves, especially in cases covered by (1) above.

3. Everyone responds to brain disease differently, but there are a number of known patterns. Chronic progressive encephalopathies like CTE impair function of the amygdala and prefrontal cortex, among others. This is a biological change to actual brain tissue that would otherwise perform functions like regulating emotions and exercising restraint. People with advanced disease frequently have their rights curtailed and are assigned custodians as if they were children. God alone knows exactly how bad Nobis’ or anyone else’s disease is until autopsy, but the history I read suggests that Tommy Nobis suffered from a long and devastating biological loss of brain function.

4. If you have actual medical training that qualifies you to question the scientific literature on this topic, I am all ears. Otherwise, let’s please stick with the science and drop the personal attacks. Let us please extend them the benefit of the doubt and Mortui requiescant in pace.

And the article talks about how articulate he was and then how he couldn't get a sentence out.  There was a massive change in him.  And he wasn't an "asshole to everyone."  He seemed to keep it together most of the time.  But a family sees you all the time.

For CTE and Alzheimer's, getting out of control is one of the most common symptoms.  And I've seen relatives who were once very nice, get very mean and difficult to be around after Alzheimer's  I've spent a lot of time visiting relatives on those locked wards and in nursing homes and seen older people get that way.  I'm sure they weren't all "assholes to everyone" all their life.