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Mizzou really is SEC now

mdmost

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rickyspub

rickyspub 801

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The NCAA isn't some organization put on top of the universities by some outside power. It is an organization of their own creation. The fact that it sucks is at least in small part Texas's fault. Mizzou is part of the organization so if they want to bitch about their penalties they can also look in the mirror. The organization sucks in part because its membership doesn't want to harm itself with penalties. Mizzou's ban affects the rest of the SEC and the SEC's bowl partners. I am sure schools in the other conferences are just as squeamish about this, which is why we see the standards for punishment rise and fall like the tides. With Penn State, Baylor and UNC issues the pendulum has swung back towards harsher punishment and Baylor looks to be the only one of the three in line for the potentially harsher punishment. (Pretty convenient, no?!)

The other issue that plagues the NCAA is the lack of subpoena power. Players are generally the only ones under scrutiny because the NCAA can dole out punishment knowing that few NCAA athletes have the means to lawyer up. When they do, penalties magically disappear. The Universities will never give up the power to govern themselves to some government agency that could compel testimony and evidence, so the NCAA sucks at enforcement largely by design.

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AUS-97HORN

AUS-97HORN 11,672

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25 minutes ago, WBT said:

I was about to post something similar.  I keep reading that they got hammered and shouldn't have cooperated.  It's 4 scholarships and they have to skip their bowl loss to a middling big 12 team this December.  Big deal

Not sure what you consider getting hammered, but they got hammered

its not just football

Three sports got hit with the same ruling.  thats actually a pretty big deal.   Football, baseball and softball

and its not just the loss of 5% of scholarships and a post-season ban for next year, the rest of the ruling is:

 

Recruiting restrictions for each of the football, baseball and softball programs during the 2019-20 academic year, including:

A seven-week ban on unofficial visits.

[A 12.5 percent reduction in official visits.

A seven-week ban on recruiting communications.

A seven-week ban on all off-campus recruiting contacts and evaluations.

A 12.5 percent reduction in recruiting-person or evaluation days.

A fine of $5,000 plus 1 percent of each of the football, baseball and softball budgets.

 

almost all of those hurt- ESPECIALLY in football, Mizzou has to go weeks without begin able to contact recruits while other schools can contact those kids, plus they lose OV's and the $$$ fine sure as hell isnt insignificant, its $5k per sport  PLUS a 1% loss of budget for each of those sports.    Last year Mizzou reported having over $100M in rev come in, but took a $4M loss  considering Football represents about half that budget, it means Mizzou is now forced to pay a fine of somewhere between $4-6M

 

Thats a huge fucking hit for athletes that arent with the school anymore, and for a self-reported violation that was immediately acted upon.  Mizzou didnt hide this for years and get outed, they literally reported it the week it happened, and made damn sure to fire the tutor involved.

 

a loss of 1 scholly and maybe some recruiting restrictions is all that anyone expected- for football only. instead they got wacked in 3 sports.

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MonkeyDoughnut

MonkeyDoughnut 10,139

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The lady has admitted she was never actually asked to do any of it, she just felt she needed to as was the only way to help the players pass. She also has multiple misdemeanor unrelated fraud charges and multiple bankruptcies.  She was paid to help them but has stated she took it upon herself to do the things they are now being penalized for.

NCAA brought down a Thor hammer for what has to be some of the weakest self reported attempts of after the fact so called "cheating".

Real cheaters would have paid her requested 3k ransom and gone on their way for the mess she created, which I assume Missouri will likely do in the future.

Would be much better off not reporting and just denying everything if it ever came to light.

 

 

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Walden Ponderer

Walden Ponderer 12,639

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I'm just floored by people comparing sanctions (or lack thereof) for other schools when arguing what ought to be done in this case. The NCAA was wrong regarding the handling of the UNC scandal; does that excuse them from doing the correct thing with Missouri?

Fuck no.

The solution to an incompetent and inconsistent system is to fix the competence and consistency, not to just decide the rules don't matter anymore.

I know three different people who got caught cheating on tests (actually, just one test each, but three separate offenders) at UT. All three were expelled, and were not allowed to transfer their credits to any other university in the state of Texas. Seems to me that at bare minimum, the offenders at Missouri ought to be gone from school and have their scholies tied up for the amount of eligibility they had left, plus a bowl ban for that amount of time, too. You want to get serious about academic dishonesty? Then do something about it.

UNC, of course, ought to have gotten the death penalty. But the fact that they didn't doesn't mean that "Missouri got hammered." It just means that UNC didn't.

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sushihorn

sushihorn 3,233

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13 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

Um, the schools don't want to get serious about academic dishonesty.  That's why the NCAA is such a mess.  They schools want the illusion of integrity, not the actual practice of it.

The NCAA is the TSA of college athletics: Enforcement Theater.

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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1,062

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40 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

I'm just floored by people comparing sanctions (or lack thereof) for other schools when arguing what ought to be done in this case. The NCAA was wrong regarding the handling of the UNC scandal; does that excuse them from doing the correct thing with Missouri?

Fuck no.

The solution to an incompetent and inconsistent system is to fix the competence and consistency, not to just decide the rules don't matter anymore.

I know three different people who got caught cheating on tests (actually, just one test each, but three separate offenders) at UT. All three were expelled, and were not allowed to transfer their credits to any other university in the state of Texas. Seems to me that at bare minimum, the offenders at Missouri ought to be gone from school and have their scholies tied up for the amount of eligibility they had left, plus a bowl ban for that amount of time, too. You want to get serious about academic dishonesty? Then do something about it.

UNC, of course, ought to have gotten the death penalty. But the fact that they didn't doesn't mean that "Missouri got hammered." It just means that UNC didn't.

Logic really doesn't apply on to Surlistanis. Do you mean shocked, shocked like there's gambling going on in here?

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satyanash

satyanash 14,281

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1 hour ago, Walden Ponderer said:

I'm just floored by people comparing sanctions (or lack thereof) for other schools when arguing what ought to be done in this case. The NCAA was wrong regarding the handling of the UNC scandal; does that excuse them from doing the correct thing with Missouri? Fuck no.

UNC, of course, ought to have gotten the death penalty. But the fact that they didn't doesn't mean that "Missouri got hammered." It just means that UNC didn't.

The issue is that it's a blatant double-standard.

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MonkeyDoughnut

MonkeyDoughnut 10,139

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Posted
1 hour ago, Walden Ponderer said:

I'm just floored by people comparing sanctions (or lack thereof) for other schools when arguing what ought to be done in this case. The NCAA was wrong regarding the handling of the UNC scandal; does that excuse them from doing the correct thing with Missouri?

Fuck no.

The solution to an incompetent and inconsistent system is to fix the competence and consistency, not to just decide the rules don't matter anymore.

I know three different people who got caught cheating on tests (actually, just one test each, but three separate offenders) at UT. All three were expelled, and were not allowed to transfer their credits to any other university in the state of Texas. Seems to me that at bare minimum, the offenders at Missouri ought to be gone from school and have their scholies tied up for the amount of eligibility they had left, plus a bowl ban for that amount of time, too. You want to get serious about academic dishonesty? Then do something about it.

UNC, of course, ought to have gotten the death penalty. But the fact that they didn't doesn't mean that "Missouri got hammered." It just means that UNC didn't.

The problem is the punishment was expanded to include groups that were not found to be involved.  If your 3 friends were in a fraternity if would be similar to the school punishing their fraternity for their cheating even if they did it on their own, including limiting engagements as well as fining the fraternity.

From the NCAA's own investigation: "...according to the committee’s report, the investigation did not support that her colleagues directed her to complete the student-athletes’ work..... It continued that the tutor engaged in the activity despite receiving extensive and comprehensive education on appropriate tutoring practices."

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Fudge Nuggets

Fudge Nuggets 19,146

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On 1/31/2019 at 6:30 PM, Laxtonto said:

UNC skated for 2 reasons:

1. They had to be dealt with under the old system not the new penalty matrix that is much more hard core

2. The NCAA had to punt on the issue of clustering and class work because they could not get anyone to roll that this was purely a no show gig for athletes. Lots of smoke, but not fire which was required under the old system.

3.  Their basketball team brings in a shit ton of money to the NCAA.

How can you leave off the most important reason?

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DanRydell

DanRydell 799

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Posted
I'm just floored by people comparing sanctions (or lack thereof) for other schools when arguing what ought to be done in this case. The NCAA was wrong regarding the handling of the UNC scandal; does that excuse them from doing the correct thing with Missouri?

Fuck no.

The solution to an incompetent and inconsistent system is to fix the competence and consistency, not to just decide the rules don't matter anymore.

I know three different people who got caught cheating on tests (actually, just one test each, but three separate offenders) at UT. All three were expelled, and were not allowed to transfer their credits to any other university in the state of Texas. Seems to me that at bare minimum, the offenders at Missouri ought to be gone from school and have their scholies tied up for the amount of eligibility they had left, plus a bowl ban for that amount of time, too. You want to get serious about academic dishonesty? Then do something about it.

UNC, of course, ought to have gotten the death penalty. But the fact that they didn't doesn't mean that "Missouri got hammered." It just means that UNC didn't.

 

Per the NCAA’s findings, the offending student-athletes were all suspended by the school immediately after she came forward.

 

And of course comparisons to other sanctions matter. If 99 people are convicted of shoplifting and get sentenced to 12 months probation and the 100th gets sentenced to 5 years in prison, that’s cause for alarm, even if you think 5 years is an appropriate sentence.

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DanRydell

DanRydell 799

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Not the same thing.

 

The individual player suspensions were already adjudicated by the NCAA. Each either left the school or was suspended for the length of time the NCAA mandated after being suspended pending the NCAA ruling on their eligibility.

 

Now, as a university, I would hope they would expel each student involved. But from an NCAA perspective, the school certainly shouldn’t be punished for suspending the players for the amount of time the NCAA said they should be suspended.

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AUS-97HORN

AUS-97HORN 11,672

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55 minutes ago, Richard Kimball said:

Does anyone think Alabama would get a bowl ban for this kind of infraction? 

Alabama wouldnt have been stupid enough to have self-reported. They would have suspended the athletes for undisclosed reasons, and we never would have heard another thing about it. 

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 53,985

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On 2/1/2019 at 9:06 AM, WBT said:

I was about to post something similar.  I keep reading that they got hammered and shouldn't have cooperated.  It's 4 scholarships and they have to skip their bowl loss to a middling big 12 team this December.  Big deal

It's a postseason ban on three sports.  

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 53,985

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On 2/1/2019 at 9:11 AM, Armybrat said:

Remember how well the real self-reporting worked out for Jim Wacker at TCU a few decades ago? And he was a pretty good man & straight shooter.

Lolwut??!?!  TCU was cheating their asses off, and the only reason they "self-reported" was because SMU was about to blow the whistle on them. 

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Napoleon

Napoleon 8,600

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On 1/31/2019 at 2:49 PM, SwanderedTalent said:

I don't think any conference really fits for Missouri. They were just sort of there in the Big 12. They're too rednecky white trash for the Big Ten (grandfathering in Ohio State) and not rednecky white trash enough for the SEC. Maybe they could bounce down to C-USA.

WRONG!

The state of Missouri is a little rednecky white trash, but MIZZOU is most definitely NOT "too rednecky white trash for the Big Ten".

The college is on par with Indiana, Nebraska (but less white trash), less white trash than Michigan State, Ohio State, or Iowa.

Missouri was traditionally a basketball powerhouse with a relatively mediocre football team. They had a Detroit pipeline (most probably paying a fixer) and were like a smaller version of Kansas & Indiana, but a far superior basketball power to Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Minnesota, Michigan, & Michigan State.

Things changed in the late '80s, Norm Stewart got in a little recruiting trouble, then the Big 8 became the Big 12 and things changed again, then Nebraska & Colorado disappeared and things changed again, and finally Missouri sold their soul and went to the SEC... and they are so NOT "SEC". Aggie is SEC wannabe, but Mizzou is Big 8/Big 10-ish... Midwestern farmers with a massive German immigrant influence. "All-American Kids"

Mizzou would get tons of students from the St. Louis area, which was kind of like a mini-Chicago (but without the Poles). It's the city where the Missouri River meets the Mississippi River and where Budweiser was king. Just like Big 10 schools, Mizzou pulled their students from across their farming state, but had a major industrial city with loads of wealth that provided loads of funds and city students... which again, is absolutely NOTHING like the SEC, but is exactly like the Big 10.

(There is even a massive FORD Plant in the Kansas City area, so again... they were just like the Great Lakes states where car manufacturing was a major part of their industry.)

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SwanderedTalent

SwanderedTalent 5,761

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6 hours ago, Napoleon said:

Missouri was traditionally a basketball powerhouse with a relatively mediocre football team. They had a Detroit pipeline (most probably paying a fixer) and were like a smaller version of Kansas & Indiana, but a far superior basketball power to Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Minnesota, Michigan, & Michigan State.

I probably should just leave this alone, because I can see the bone you have to pick already, but there is no universe in existence where Missouri was at any time a "far superior basketball power" to Illinois, Michigan, or Michigan State. 

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Armybrat

Armybrat 40,725

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

TCU was paying 29 guys, and at least one of their board members knew about it  They should have gotten hammered harder than SMU: 

https://www.nytimes.com/1985/09/25/sports/payoffs-at-tcu-listed-by-booster.html

According to your link, Lowe said Wacker didn’t know anything about the payoffs. It was originally instigated by Coach Dry.

Otherwise yes, they should’ve been reamed out as hard as SMU.

Edited by Armybrat
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mulletpelini

mulletpelini 5,209

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Mizery gets what Mizery gives.  I dislike Miami, Michigan State, Notre Dame, Colorado...but all those combined wouldn't equal the dislike that I have for the armpit of hell.  It is a shithole within a shithole.  Somehow on my near 50 years on this planet, I have somehow managed to not be physically attacked, ever, except for twice during the 4 years I lived in said shithole state.

During the Nebraska Mizery game of '97, my then very pregnant wife and I attended the game and had fantastic seats right behind the Mizery bench at about the 40 yard line.  Unfortunately we were surrounded by the most ignorant, ugly, stupid, dumb, incestuous fans I've ever had the unfortunate obligation to sit next to.  When Nebraska scored to have a chance to tie the game, they cheered, not surprisingly, too stupid to realize their defeat was about to be snatched from the jaws of victory, and looked on in bewilderment as I was hugging my wife, knowing we were about to beat these mouthbreathers and stay undefeated.  It wasn't until after Texan Kris Brown nailed the extra point that they were mumbling amongst themselves and decided with a collective IQ of 72 that the game wasn't actually over.

As the game ended, and the mizery of defeat was apparent, they pushed and stomped on my wifes feet as we tried to exit, during the course of which I had to push 2 mfers to get them the fuck back off of her.  I'm pretty sure one of them had two heads.

Outside of the mizery side of KC, which isn't a real fantastic place itself, there is not one redeeming value of the waste of land known as Mizery.  Don't give a fuck how nice the lakes area is you're still dealing with the scum of the fucking earth.

On 1/31/2019 at 11:48 AM, Bill Lumbergh said:

The fact that Herman ever got any shit for mocking this is ridiculous. 

You do dumb look at me shit like this, you get what's coming to you. 

Now having said all that, there is not one team on the fucking planet I would rather see anyone mock than fucking mizery.  What Herman did, was exactly what I'd expect a coach from mizery to do, not Texas.  Maybe that makes me old school, maybe that makes me a prude.  Texas kicked their ass up and down the field that night, that was all the "fuck you" Tom Herman had to send across the field to mizery.

You're 40, you're a man, act like it.

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 53,985

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2 hours ago, Armybrat said:

According to your link, Lowe said Wacker didn’t know anything about the payoffs. 

 

Quit being obtuse.  Everyone knew about the payoffs.  Kenneth Davis, from a poor family with 12 kids was driving a Mercedes at TCU.  Anyone who didn't "know" didn't want to know.

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Magus Ossis

Magus Ossis 2,783

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Posted (edited)

Once upon a time I worked as a tutor for a D1 athletics department. The same pool of tutors helped all sports, sometimes even smart kids. I helped one with calculus 2. We all understood that some of my “colleagues” were doing the work for the athletes, but my knowledge was never direct enough to make an accusation. The cheaters were smart enough to do it out of sight and not confess.

edit: I knew a former swimmer, and her work was done for her regularly. She picked it up in a box every day. Neither of these programs was UT.

Edited by Magus Ossis
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Napoleon

Napoleon 8,600

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Posted
2 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Damn. Mizzou is shit already. Imagine how bad they'd be without cheating.

Another way to look at it is...
 

"Imagine how long they could have gotten away with this cheating if they were a blue blood... they probably would have never been caught."

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Nivek

Nivek 16,852

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Mizery gets what Mizery gives.  I dislike Miami, Michigan State, Notre Dame, Colorado...but all those combined wouldn't equal the dislike that I have for the armpit of hell.  It is a shithole within a shithole.  Somehow on my near 50 years on this planet, I have somehow managed to not be physically attacked, ever, except for twice during the 4 years I lived in said shithole state.
During the Nebraska Mizery game of '97, my then very pregnant wife and I attended the game and had fantastic seats right behind the Mizery bench at about the 40 yard line.  Unfortunately we were surrounded by the most ignorant, ugly, stupid, dumb, incestuous fans I've ever had the unfortunate obligation to sit next to.  When Nebraska scored to have a chance to tie the game, they cheered, not surprisingly, too stupid to realize their defeat was about to be snatched from the jaws of victory, and looked on in bewilderment as I was hugging my wife, knowing we were about to beat these mouthbreathers and stay undefeated.  It wasn't until after Texan Kris Brown nailed the extra point that they were mumbling amongst themselves and decided with a collective IQ of 72 that the game wasn't actually over.
As the game ended, and the mizery of defeat was apparent, they pushed and stomped on my wifes feet as we tried to exit, during the course of which I had to push 2 mfers to get them the fuck back off of her.  I'm pretty sure one of them had two heads.
Outside of the mizery side of KC, which isn't a real fantastic place itself, there is not one redeeming value of the waste of land known as Mizery.  Don't give a fuck how nice the lakes area is you're still dealing with the scum of the fucking earth.
Now having said all that, there is not one team on the fucking planet I would rather see anyone mock than fucking mizery.  What Herman did, was exactly what I'd expect a coach from mizery to do, not Texas.  Maybe that makes me old school, maybe that makes me a prude.  Texas kicked their ass up and down the field that night, that was all the "fuck you" Tom Herman had to send across the field to mizery.
You're 40, you're a man, act like it.

Mizzou is fine. I have been there before. They didn’t eat my dog Rusty.
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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 48,962

Posted
Posted (edited)

Stumbled on this Mizzu article.  Reunion of Brick, Jordan Elliot and Chris Daniels together for 2019 Season...

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/sec/university-of-missouri/article228154794.html

Missouri has held two and a half weeks of spring football practices, which is more than enough time for defensive line coach Brick Haley to acknowledge he is facing a new problem.

Haley used to coach at Texas, and the Tigers had one of his former Longhorns players last season in Jordan Elliott. Now they have another, as defensive tackle Chris Daniels joined the team earlier this year. And the two defensive linemen make it tough for the coach to concentrate because of their combined sense of humor, just like they did in Austin.

“There’s a lot of jokes,” Haley told The Star. “Chris is a barrel of fun. He’s a prankster. He does a lot of stuff that irritates the crap out of me.”

Edited by LTtxfan
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