Best American Songwriter?

[Al_4_ISU 12484]

1 hour ago, G650 said:

Full Moon Fever was one of the first CD's I ever got, I actually don't believe I ever had it on cassette now that I think about it.

It was the first album I bought with my own money.  On cassette in 1994, probably.

I was in pre-school when it was released and my old man was a Petty fan, so he had it on CD right away.  4 year old Al was obsessed with Free Fallin', and one day at pre-school the teacher asked us to sing our favorite nursery rhymes.  Apparently I said I didn't know any, and proceeded to sing Free Fallin'.  When my mom picked me up that day, the teacher had a stern conversation about what I was learning at home.

Literally as long as I can remember, Petty's been either my favorite artist, or right fucking there.

[G650 14277]

17 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

It was the first album I bought with my own money.  On cassette in 1994, probably.

I was in pre-school when it was released and my old man was a Petty fan, so he had it on CD right away.  4 year old Al was obsessed with Free Fallin', and one day at pre-school the teacher asked us to sing our favorite nursery rhymes.  Apparently I said I didn't know any, and proceeded to sing Free Fallin'.  When my mom picked me up that day, the teacher had a stern conversation about what I was learning at home.

Literally as long as I can remember, Petty's been either my favorite artist, or right fucking there.

Not going to lie, that's pretty awesome.

[Al_4_ISU 12484]

8 minutes ago, G650 said:

Not going to lie, that's pretty awesome.

I'll always be proud of it.  I don't really remember it happening, but my mom's told the story ever since.  Apparently when she picked me up, the teacher had no clue what I was singing, and had written the name down on a sheet of paper.  When she read "Free Fallin by Tom Petty" she stated it like a question.  Had absolutely no clue what it was, but was definitely concerned that a 4 year old was singing about being a bad boy that doesn't even miss her, a bad boy for breaking heart.

[GhostOfTomJoad 9351]

Full Moon Fever was one of the first CD's I ever got, I actually don't believe I ever had it on cassette now that I think about it.

"Hello CD listeners. We've reached the point where those listening on cassette or vinyl will need to get up and switch over..."

Still cracks me up.

[dcbc 14509]

2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I'll always be proud of it.  I don't really remember it happening, but my mom's told the story ever since.  Apparently when she picked me up, the teacher had no clue what I was singing, and had written the name down on a sheet of paper.  When she read "Free Fallin by Tom Petty" she stated it like a question.  Had absolutely no clue what it was, but was definitely concerned that a 4 year old was singing about being a bad boy that doesn't even miss her, a bad boy for breaking heart.

Hopefully, this was your mom's precise response.

 

 

[Al_4_ISU 12484]

13 minutes ago, dcbc said:

Hopefully, this was your mom's precise response.

 

 

She's far too polite.  Canadian national who grew up in the Midwest.  She does that Stan Marsh shut your eyes and grab your nose thing when she's annoyed or embarrassed.  I'd imagine that's what went down.

[tbone_ 14161]

Love that story Al. But damn I was a junior at UT when that album came out.

[Al_4_ISU 12484]

I've been thinking about the Petty vs Springsteen thing.  I love them both, deeply.  I think they've both wrote a lot of ubiquitous hits that capture these big universal sentiments.  I think they both have these criminally underrated album cuts that should have been as big of hits as the songs that became the hits.  They are both uniquely and undeniably expressions of different versions of working class America.

I've been a massive Petty fan for as long as I can remember, as I detailed earlier.  I didn't really have an obsessive Springsteen phase until I was probably 23 or 24 (my wife will absolutely lose her shit if she hears Thunder Road because I ran it into the ground in the summer of 2010).  Outside of a few big hits (BTR, Glory Days, Hungry Heart, Dancing in the Dark, Born In The USA) you didn't hear him much on rock radio in the Midwest - 10,000 Maniacs cover of "Because the Night" was bigger in the 90's around here thany Boss track.  There were probably 10-15 Petty songs you'd hear nearly every day.  My dad was a big Petty fan, and I don't think he even had a Boss album.  Petty was just more ubiquitous in my life.  His songs, more than anyone's, have been the soundtrack of my life.

I found Springsteen as a young adult - at the place in my life that the people in his best work find themselves.  Because it was less ubiquitous in the world around me, it felt like it belonged to me in a more personal sense.  I also realized what a massive influence he was on the modern artists I was getting into (Drive-By Truckers, The Hold Steady) at that time.  As a composer, Springsteen is light years ahead of Petty and Campbell.  There's nothing comparable to Jungleland, Rosalita, or New York City Serenade in the Petty canon.  There are a lot of bands that sound like The Heartbreakers.  No one sounds like The E Street Band.

But Tom Petty could take a simple statement, a slight turn of phrase, and just wring a gut punch out of it.  "You don't know how it feels to be me".  There is nothing profound about pointing that out, but when Petty did it, it hits different.  As amazing as the big soundscapes, yearning passion, and general grandiosity of Springsteen at his peak are, that little shit just gets me.

I love them both, I refuse to choose, and I'm extremely suspect of anyone who dislikes either.

[Paul Wesley 3289]

Great post. 

[G650 14277]

1 minute ago, Paul Wesley said:

Great post. 

I second that

[GhostOfTomJoad 9351]

49 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

 Outside of a few big hits (BTR, Glory Days, Hungry Heart, Dancing in the Dark, Born In The USA) you didn't hear him much on rock radio in the Midwest - 10,000 Maniacs cover of "Because the Night" was bigger in the 90's around here thany Boss track.  There were probably 10-15 Petty songs you'd hear nearly every day. 

Holy shit did this age me. As a kid in MN in the late '70s - early '80s you were pretty much guaranteed to hear a Bruce track every 90 minutes or so on the local AOR stations (K101 and KQ92, for those who go back that far).  Plus covers of his songs by the Greg Kihn Band, Manfred Mann, etc. Then Rush broke big and ya know, the hoopleheads in Minnesota pretty much adopted dem dere Canadians as  family.

 

[Al_4_ISU 12484]

6 minutes ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

Holy shit did this age me. As a kid in MN in the late '70s - early '80s you were pretty much guaranteed to hear a Bruce track every 90 minutes or so on the local AOR stations (K101 and KQ92, for those who go back that far).  Plus covers of his songs by the Greg Kihn Band, Manfred Mann, etc. Then Rush broke big and ya know, the hoopleheads in Minnesota pretty much adopted dem dere Canadians as  family.

 

I was born in '85 and my first real vivid memories are probably from '88 or so.  By the time the radio was something I paid attention to (probably 1991 or 1992) you had the end of hair metal and coming of grunge. 

Laser 101.7 out of Rochester was the big rock station for us growing up.  Then 103.7 in Mason City kinda overtook them by the turn of the century even though both still exist and are popular today.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Al_4_ISU

[G650 14277]

16 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I was born in '85 and my first real vivid memories are probably from '88 or so.  By the time the radio was something I paid attention to (probably 1991 or 1992) you had the end of hair metal and coming of grunge. 

Laser 101.7 out of Rochester was the big rock station for us growing up.  Then 103.7 in Mason City kinda overtook them by the turn of the century even though both still exist and are popular today.

 

I think one thing that is interesting on your previous post is listening to your perspective coming to their music later as opposed to experiencing it in real time as I did, and having similar responses to their music for some similar and some different reasons. Petty, to me, was a rocker from the south, which informed a lot of my identity coming up. Bruce was obviously out there, I mean you couldn't avoid him in the Born in the USA era, but I felt more affinity for Petty. As I got older, the themes in Bruce's work became a lot more relevant.

[stc 1465]

23 hours ago, G650 said:

Even as a Petty fan I don't find Wildflowers that great. The title track and You Wreck Me are pretty mych the only real winners for me on that album.

 

The thing you have to remember with Petty too is he had Campbell which is an amazing asset.

the only explanation is that you are stan lynch. otherwise, wtf?

[G650 14277]

2 minutes ago, stc said:

the only explanation is that you are stan lynch. otherwise, wtf?

Uh, dunno? I find latter Petty plodding. Songs like Good to be King are are just really uninspired and draggy. When Petty is class is when he has urgency. I Need to Know, Listen to Her Heart, Don't Come Around Here No More, Rebels (the last two are like 1A and 1B in greatest Petty songs), Jamming Me, Kings Highway etc....

[Al_4_ISU 12484]

Good To Be King is one of my least favorite songs on Wildflowers.

I love Wildflowers, but I've just never gotten why so many people view that as top shelf Petty.

[GhostOfTomJoad 9351]

"Honey don't walk out 'cuz I'm too drunk to follow" is one helluva way to open an album. 

[Al_4_ISU 12484]

I think Highway Companion is Petty's latter day masterpiece and it mostly feels loose and breezy, as opposed to dragging (the way King does).

[G650 14277]

12 minutes ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

"Honey don't walk out 'cuz I'm too drunk to follow" is one helluva way to open an album. 

 

I remember peeling the plastic wrapping off the cassette and popping it in the player to this day.

Like I said earlier, top ten album for me.

[G650 14277]

Drive By Truckers do a fantastic cover of Rebels as well.

 

 

[Al_4_ISU 12484]

I've been lucky enough to see them play it before.

On my 25th birthday I saw DBT open for Petty.  One of the greatest concert experiences of my life.

[locodos 5393]

Alt Country really isn't my bag, but The Drive by Truckers are playing a gig at a smallish venue about 2 miles from the house.  Been toying with the idea to go see them with some friends and check out the vibe.  

[G650 14277]

Just now, locodos said:

Alt Country really isn't my bag, but The Drive by Truckers are playing a gig at a smallish venue about 2 miles from the house.  Been toying with the idea to go see them with some friends and check out the vibe.  

I'm not sure I'd call the Truckers alt country really. I'd definitely go see them, they are magnificent

[cactusflinthead 27602]

4 minutes ago, locodos said:

Alt Country really isn't my bag, but The Drive by Truckers are playing a gig at a smallish venue about 2 miles from the house.  Been toying with the idea to go see them with some friends and check out the vibe.  

Got my ticket to the Grenada show. Saw Cooley solo earlier this winter.

[stc 1465]

14 minutes ago, G650 said:

 

I remember peeling the plastic wrapping off the cassette and popping it in the player to this day.

Like I said earlier, top ten album for me.

yeah, we definitely differ on the rankings of his discography. southern accents has more clunkers on it than a majority of his albums. personally it's one of my least favorites.  

[Al_4_ISU 12484]

7 minutes ago, locodos said:

Alt Country really isn't my bag, but The Drive by Truckers are playing a gig at a smallish venue about 2 miles from the house.  Been toying with the idea to go see them with some friends and check out the vibe.  

They're one of my favorite bands.  You should go.

I would call them alt country, but live they spend more time just rocking balls than anything.  75% of the set is going to be loud ass rock and roll.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Al_4_ISU

[G650 14277]

12 minutes ago, stc said:

yeah, we definitely differ on the rankings of his discography. southern accents has more clunkers on it than a majority of his albums. personally it's one of my least favorites.  

Hey, all good. Whatever floats your boat.

 

To me it has his best two songs ever, plus Southern Accents that none other than Johnny Cash covered, Dogs on the Run, Make it Better. Just an insanely good album.

 

ETA:The Mike Campbell wah wah on the end of Don't Come Around Here No More is the apotheosis of Petty imo.

Edited February 13, 2023 by G650

[stc 1465]

it's the horns that really turn me off, never felt like they fit the songs. i much prefer the live versions of songs from that album. 

[Paul Wesley 3289]

"Southern Accents" is definitely the most nostalgic Petty record for me.  I camped out in the parking lot of the local mall with my best friend to be in line for tickets the next morning (still can't believe my parents allowed that).  Spent all the money we had getting tickets for us and our friends.  On the night of the show, we were lucky that someone's parents were out of town, so that's where the pre-party was.  Invited some beautiful girls (who were into it too), wore the concert shirts to school on Monday... It was everything good about coming-of-age... friendships, girls, freedom, rock music...

But with some perspective, it's definitely the most stylistically uneven Petty record.  He set out to do a tribute to his home state and to the South, hired a couple guys from The Band, then hooks up with an English synth-pop dude in leather pants (who ends up co-writing a bunch of the songs).  Hey, we should hire horns!  In the words of the Surly:  "What are you doing, Tom Petty?"

I agree that the title track and "Dogs on the Run" are underrated deep cuts.  The drums and rhythm guitar intro to "Rebels" just instantly takes me back to all the excitement and possibilities of youth.  "Best of Everything" is a great ballad.  That's four pretty solid songs.  I actually like "Don't Come Around Here" if only for the sneering spitefulness of the lyric.   It has no business on a record that's a tribute to the South, but it's redeeming.  Then there are a few songs that aren't at all southern... and they're really not even good songs ("Mary's New Car").  

If I were a music critic, I'd put it middle-of-the-pack - easily behind "Torpedos," "Full Moon Fever," and "Wildflowers."  As a mile marker of my life, it was (and is) bigger than all of them.

[G650 14277]

24 minutes ago, Paul Wesley said:

English synth-pop dude in leather pants

 

The Eurythmics are one of my all time favorites but I am not sure I'd call them synth pop.

Anyhow, that's a good summary of the album. I think it's diversity is part of what makes it his greatest album, and moreso what makes it is I think it's the most punk rock Tom Petty album by a mile.

 

To me, when he gets into Full Moon Fever its pretty much full in Whitey Suburbia McWhiterson music. Into the Great Wide Open stepped back to a better version of Petty but it was basically a slow decline from there to me.

[tbone_ 14161]

Just the fact that you guys are talking about so many Petty tunes and albums over such a long period of time is a big part of why his body of work is just flabbergasting to me.

And Al’s comment above about Petty being able to deliver a seemingly simple phrase in a way that no one else could is a big part of his genius imo. Much like Mike Campbell never wasted a note on the guitar, Petty never wasted a word either. What might seem so simple on the surface is just sublime in his hands.

[Massive Horn 41]

Jason Molina

Mark Kozelek

David Berman

Britt Daniel

Kool Keith

Jerry Cantrell

Ric Ocasek

Ronnie James Dio

 

[Massive Horn 41]

And I fucking forgot Lou Reed. 

[Al_4_ISU 12484]

11 hours ago, Massive Horn said:

Jason Molina

Mark Kozelek

David Berman

Britt Daniel

Kool Keith

Jerry Cantrell

Ric Ocasek

Ronnie James Dio

 

Neither of these guys gets enough credit.  Straight up tortured geniuses.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

On 2/12/2023 at 3:25 PM, ztejas said:

Springsteen is a better composer and like others have said more eloquent and verbose lyrically. 

Thunder Road is a movie script in the making. 

 

Show a little faith, there's magic in the night
Ain't a beauty, but hey you're alright

 

Yeah, we've all been there.

[Horndog 2228]

On 2/10/2023 at 11:09 PM, Paul Wesley said:

Paul Simon

Bob Dylan

Tom Petty

Willie Nelson

 

 

That's a pretty good list. Hard to argue with any of those names. 

Has Kristofferson been mentioned?  He's in the same league.

"I ain't saying I beat the devil. But I drank his beer for nothing. Then I stole his song."

On 2/10/2023 at 11:09 PM, Paul Wesley said:

 

 

[ztejas 43537]

On 2/13/2023 at 1:56 PM, Al_4_ISU said:

As a composer, Springsteen is light years ahead of Petty and Campbell.  There's nothing comparable to Jungleland, Rosalita, or New York City Serenade in the Petty canon.  There are a lot of bands that sound like The Heartbreakers.  No one sounds like The E Street Band.

But Tom Petty could take a simple statement, a slight turn of phrase, and just wring a gut punch out of it.  "You don't know how it feels to be me".  There is nothing profound about pointing that out, but when Petty did it, it hits different.  As amazing as the big soundscapes, yearning passion, and general grandiosity of Springsteen at his peak are, that little shit just gets me.

Similar take to what I posted. "Light years" is a bit much as far as composition goes in my book. Part of the genius of composition is taking something simple and straightforward and elevating it. Bruce is obviously a more complex and grandiose musician - I'm not sure that makes him a better one. More impressive? Probably. 

But - again - it's all relative and depends on what you value. 

[ztejas 43537]

5 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Part of the genius of composition is taking something simple and straightforward and elevating it.

"Learning to Fly" is a great example of this and one of my favorite Petty songs despite being much later and on a weaker album. 

It couldn't be more unassuming. A 12 year old with 3 years of guitar lessons could write and play the chord progression. 

But it's so fucking brilliant.

That's what Petty is to me.

[G650 14277]

10 hours ago, ztejas said:

weaker album

 

I dunno, Into the Great Wide Open is one of his best imo. The only latter day Petty album that I rate.

[Post Oak 20272]

Agree on Petty.  I was just listening to There's A Break in the Rain this morning with my 7 year old daughter. 

I don't think anyone thinks it's one of his best songs. But there is beauty in it's humbleness.  Nothing is wasted . 

There's a break in the rain
I'm gonna go outside
Stand in the sunshine for a while

There's a break in the pain
I'm gonna take a ride
Honey, I love to see you smile

And may my love travel with you everywhere
Yeah, may my love travel with you always
And may my love travel with you everywhere
Yeah, may my love travel with you always

 

[stc 1465]

Agree on Petty.  I was just listening to There's A Break in the Rain this morning with my 7 year old daughter. 
I don't think anyone thinks it's one of his best songs. But there is beauty in it's humbleness.  Nothing is wasted . 
There's a break in the rain
I'm gonna go outside
Stand in the sunshine for a while

There's a break in the pain
I'm gonna take a ride
Honey, I love to see you smile

And may my love travel with you everywhere
Yeah, may my love travel with you always
And may my love travel with you everywhere
Yeah, may my love travel with you always
 

One of the most interesting parts about the wildflowers box set is hearing the use of familiar lyrics in different songs. Listen to "have love will travel" for the same chorus in a completely different song.

[Al_4_ISU 12484]

Great Wide Open was the final Jeff Lynne album, right?

It comes out the gates on absolute fire, but falls off a bit until Built to Last comes in at the end.  There are great songs there (King's Highway is one of the most underrated Petty tunes) but the sequencing isn't great.

Learning to Fly/King's Highway is as good of a 1-2 punch to start an album as anyone's laid down.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Al_4_ISU

[G650 14277]

10 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Great Wide Open was the final Jeff Lynne album, right?

It comes out the gates on absolute fire, but falls off a bit until Built to Last comes in at the end.  There are great songs there (King's Highway is one of the most underrated Petty tunes) but the sequencing isn't great.

Learning to Fly/King's Highway is as good of a 1-2 punch to start an album as anyone's laid down.

Kings Highway is actually the only Petty tune I have in my daily playlist. Just phenomenal song.

 

Going back to earlier, one thing that kind of goes without saying about Petty, at least I think most people know, is his raison d'etre was "Fuck you, that's why". He was notoriously thin skinned and had a massive chip on his shoulder, and I think that edge is what made his work great. Also why I don't really rate his latter work. Laconic Petty doesn't do much for me. The fire of his first decade was unmatched and kind of peaked with Southern Accents.

 

I will say there is something to what @Paul Wesley said though about time and place with Southern Accents, I definitely have an association with it. Though I really do feel my appreciation for it has actually grown over the years. Plus, I love horn sections.

[Al_4_ISU 12484]

Southern Accents was the classic era Petty album I heard the least growing up, and really came to appreciate later in life.  Honestly probably through Cash's "American Recordings" sessions.

You could make a pretty cogent argument that the title track is the best song he ever wrote.  I'm not saying it's my vote, but if it's your vote I'm not arguing against it.

[G650 14277]

8 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Southern Accents was the classic era Petty album I heard the least growing up, and really came to appreciate later in life.  Honestly probably through Cash's "American Recordings" sessions.

You could make a pretty cogent argument that the title track is the best song he ever wrote.  I'm not saying it's my vote, but if it's your vote I'm not arguing against it.

I love that song for sure, but I think Rebels is probably his best song, though Don't Come Around Here No More and Jammin' Me are close. Kings Highway, Listen to Her Heart and Here Comes My Girl are all in the conversation as well.

 

The video for Don't Come Around Here No More is also an old MTV classic. That was everywhere.

 

 

[Al_4_ISU 12484]

1 minute ago, G650 said:

I love that song for sure, but I think Rebels is probably his best song, though Don't Come Around Here No More and Jammin' Me are close. Kings Highway, Listen to Her Heart and Here Comes My Girl are all in the conversation as well.

 

The video for Don't Come Around Here No More is also an old MTV classic. That was everywhere.

 

 

I like Rebels more, and listen to it more.  But just from fitting excellent lyrics, to a great melody and really painting this picture of a person and place, Southern Accents is top shelf.

[G650 14277]

I will say Refugee was ubiquitous as shit in my youth too, so I always have a soft spot for that one.

[Al_4_ISU 12484]

3 minutes ago, G650 said:

I will say Refugee was ubiquitous as shit in my youth too, so I always have a soft spot for that one.

As urgent and feral as Petty gets.

[hullabelew 3724]

On 2/13/2023 at 4:42 PM, Al_4_ISU said:

I think Highway Companion is Petty's latter day masterpiece and it mostly feels loose and breezy, as opposed to dragging (the way King does).

For me, this is his most underrated album.  So many GREAT songs, all built around going back to Florida.  

[hullabelew 3724]

On the song Southern Accents, Petty said that when he was in Europe (France or Italy...can't remember) a fan told him how much that song meant to him.  Petty asked if the guy had lived in the US.  He said no....lived her all my life.  The people in the northern part of the country thing all of the people in the southern part or stupid, backwards trash.    

For me, the comparison between Springsteen and Petty is that Petty is relatable by everyone while Springsteen, especially early stuff, has a much more limited fanbase.  Not a bad thing.  Just the way I see it. 

And one the Wildflowers album.....I think that a lot of the glowing reviews had to do more with the subject matter and how he was processing this life at the time.   I have everything Petty ever released (at least I think I do) and I love EVERY album of his.  I can't say that about any other artist. 

Oh, Mojo is also an incredibly underrated album.     

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by hullabelew