Are you rooting for Rick Barnes to win the championship?

[Huckleberry 33099]

We had one disastrous season and 3 mediocre seasons because of Mack. The 3 subsequent disastrous seasons aren’t on him, and that is so fucking tired. 
He didnt war with fans. He showed some thin skin and showed his ass a bit. He earned the right to be extended some latitude. People should be over it. He’s far and away the 2nd best coach in our history and returned us to glory. 

No, you don't ever earn latitude. That is exactly why programs go to shit. Perform or leave.

And he's not far and away our second best coach. He's close with Bible. Two conference championships in 16 seasons doesn't make you far and away the second best.

[Huckleberry 33099]

If it's not a contest it would be because Brown is a distant third. Bible brought Texas and southwestern football from also-ran status to nationally competitive.

[Goo Punch 4275]

12 minutes ago, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

The last 3 months or so I've been in Tennessee a lot and I've heard "The FAKE UT!" and "Thanks for giving us Rick Barnes" so many times, you'd think I'd root against them, but I'm still blandly rooting for them to win it all.
"

yeah, i've visited a couple of their forums a time or two and they are pretty obsessive about that. a whole lotta "without Tennessee Texas would be North Mexico!" and whatnot.

[Gut Wagon 8087]

There’s typically a difference between hating a former coach and being glad he isn’t running your program any more. That’s where I remain with Rick and Mack. 

[immortal13 4059]

Fuck the SEC and Tennessee 

[52-80 19252]

13 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Conference championships: DXB 3/10; Mack 2/16 (this is literally the only criteria Dana wins on, and it's not a huge advantage).

And I'm guessing it's easier to be champion of a conference of 7, rather than a conference of 12.  (and dare I say it, w/o OU....)

 

If we're counting numbers for numbers, in the B12 South with membership of 6, Mack won the Division 4 times and tied another 2 times.  6/16.

 

[Huckleberry 33099]

14 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

This is lunacy.  Below are some comparisons that are apt (Number of x-win seasons and bowl appearances were excluded given the changes between their eras ).

Winning %: DXB .649; Mack .767

National championships: DXB 0; Mack 1

Top 5 Finishes: DXB 1 in 10 seasons; Mack 5/16

Top 10 Finishes: DXB 2/10; Mack 7/16

Losing seasons: DXB 2 /10; Mack 1/16

Conference championships: DXB 3/10; Mack 2/16 (this is literally the only criteria Dana wins on, and it's not a huge advantage).

It's not lunacy at all, it simply requires at least a little knowledge of college football history. The fact you're attempting to use things like winning percentage in straight up comparisons between one coach from the 1930s and 1940s and another from the 2000s shows you have no idea what you're talking about.

It's the equivalent of someone saying Les Miles is clearly a better college football coach than Bill Snyder. Seems reasonable to those who have no clue as to the relative contexts.

Edited February 4, 2019 by Huckleberry

[Valmy77 13273]

I have no ill will for Barnes and I appreciate he was a very good coach here, however I never really cared for his style of play and never really warmed up to him personally. So I wish he and Tennessee well but I don't have much interest.

[4th&Five 41590]

sure.  they won't but better him than anyone else.

[ztejas 43538]

No because I don't give a fuck about Tennessee's basketball program 

[Braff Zacklin 13664]

3 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

It's not lunacy at all, it simply requires at least a little knowledge of college football history. The fact you're attempting to use things like winning percentage in straight up comparisons between one coach from the 1930s and 1940s and another from the 2000s shows you have no idea what you're talking about.

It's the equivalent of someone saying Les Miles is clearly a better college football coach than Bill Snyder. Seems reasonable to those who have no clue as to the relative contexts.

Eh, for a guy who loves objective stats, you suddenly became very subjective when analyzing/comparing Mack. Your argument is terribly thin and, honestly, smacks of agenda/propaganda. 

[Huckleberry 33099]

Just now, Braff Zacklin said:

Eh, for a guy who loves objective stats, you suddenly became very subjective when analyzing/comparing Mack. Your argument is terribly thin and, honestly, smacks of agenda/propaganda. 

It's not subjective at all, it's just data that you're not familiar with.

Keep in mind that I'm not saying Mack Brown clearly isn't the second best coach in Texas history. I argued with the position that he clearly was. I think there is a debate between Bible and Brown for that position and in my opinion it's too close to call.

The inferiority of southwestern, State of Texas, and University of Texas football compared to the national powers before DX Bible is objective fact according to every objective rating system in existence. Bible did not coach teams that were as good as Brown coached, with the exception of the 1941 squad. However, he took not just one school but an entire region of football from a second-rate status to nationally competitive. Those are not subjective arguments as they are supported by the data.

I have no agenda other than educating people who don't understand college football history.

[Machinator 32099]

Mack's run from 1998 to 2009 (particularly 2004 to 2009, which included the national title) makes him the second-best coach in UT history in my eyes. However, I think the gap between DKR and Mack is much larger than that between Mack and the third-best coach.

Also, figures that one of the two threads on this site that's actually intended for Rick Barnes discussion gets derailed by disussion of, well, not Rick Barnes.

Edited February 4, 2019 by Machinator

[Braff Zacklin 13664]

6 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

It's not subjective at all, it's just data that you're not familiar with.

Keep in mind that I'm not saying Mack Brown clearly isn't the second best coach in Texas history. I argued with the position that he clearly was. I think there is a debate between Bible and Brown for that position and in my opinion it's too close to call.

The inferiority of southwestern, State of Texas, and University of Texas football compared to the national powers before DX Bible is objective fact according to every objective rating system in existence. Bible did not coach teams that were as good as Brown coached, with the exception of the 1941 squad. However, he took not just one school but an entire region of football from a second-rate status to nationally competitive. Those are not subjective arguments as they are supported by the data.

I have no agenda other than educating people who don't understand college football history.

The "data" you're using is only subjective, Huck, but by all means, go Derka level with the condescension because you've walked out on a very narrow limb and aren't capable of backing up.

FWIW, I'm familiar with DX Bible and his role in elevating Texas football. For me, he's not unlike Penders in that he put the program on the map, but in no way would I assert that either is the second-best coach in their program's history.

[Huckleberry 33099]

The "data" you're using is only subjective, Huck, but by all means, go Derka level with the condescension because you've walked out on a very narrow limb and aren't capable of backing up. FWIW, I'm familiar with DX Bible and his role in elevating Texas football. For me, he's not unlike Penders in that he put the program on the map, but in no way would I assert that either is the second-best coach in their program's history.

 

 

No, it's not. I alluded to the objective rating systems that support the argument. I don't really feel like linking dozens of computer ratings sets but you can certainly find them pretty easily. Nobody wants me to longcat the thread with that.

 

I'm also not on a narrow limb. Saying that Bible belongs in a discussion on second best Texas coach is not nearly as precarious a position as saying that Brown clearly is and it's lunacy to argue someone else should be discussed.

 

 

I understand it pretty well, but don’t let a sports argument stop you from being a presumptuous prick. Your anti-Brown bias is showing through. Good day sir. 

 

A white flag would have taken less time. Again, I don't have an anti-Brown bias. I mean I'm glad he's gone because his time was up but I also appreciate what he accomplished.

 

 

 

[Rimbo 26122]

On 2/2/2019 at 7:20 PM, TexArcher said:

The Vols are #1 in the country and look like a very legit contender to win the whole thing.

Are you rooting for Barnes?  Does it piss you off that we let him go, or maybe that he let our program go downhill then did his best coaching elsewhere?  Etc...

 

It pisses me off that he's not coaching like this here. Whether this is the result of the problems in our AD at the time affecting his coaching, or him needing a wake-up call to be coaching like this, or whatever it is. I'm pissed that his replacement is an apparent downgrade.

I'm not rooting for him. He's not one of us now, so fuck 'im.

[Michael Knight 12995]

Does Rick Barnes coach for Texas?

1. Yes
   1. Root for Rick Barnes to win the championship
2. No
   1. No , why would I root for a team other than Texas that's just fucking stupid

[JimmyJames 12271]

8 hours ago, ztejas said:

No because I don't give a fuck about Tennessee's basketball program 

Yeah this is the correct answer to this thread. Has nothing to do with Barnes, Derka, or what have you. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

Barnes is a very good coach who was the best basketball coach we’ve ever had, although the bar on that isn’t all that high. 

But he had flaws. Chief among them in my opinion is he wanted every one of his players to play basketball like he apparently did, and if they didn’t he rode their ass until they did are at least attempted to do so. It’s not necessary for the entire team to play that way, in my opinion, especially when, for example, you have a once in a generation offense talent like say, Kevin Durant. 

Second biggest flaw was he would tighten up during the tournament and as a result so would his team. It remains to be seen whether that aspect has changed. 

But he recruited lights out and made all of his players better no doubt. I still remember how pissed off the UNC internet posters and fans were when Durant chose UT instead of them. UNC fans don’t know jack shit about football but they are pretty much experts on basketball players, kind of the opposite of UT fans. And they couldn’t believe it when Durant went to UT and were making all sort of aggy accusation of paid players, corruption, etc. It’s kind of like if Adrian Peterson or Earl Campbell had decided to go to Maryland. 

But what did Barnes do with a once in a generation talent like Durant, with also a NBA quality point guard in Augustine? Got blown out in the second round of the tournament. That was when I first started to doubt Barnes as a coach. The ultimate destruction of the 2011 team that went to number one then collapsed because Barnes hated it was basically the final straw for me.

So will I root for Tennessee? Hell no. Will I root for Barnes? Not really because he coaches for Tennessee. Still like the guy though, and he’s obviously a way better coach than the one we currently got right now. 

[Huckleberry 33099]

46 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

A white flag would have taken less time than the 2 minutes it took for me to pull stats where I destroyed your entirely subjective, anti-Brown, dumbass argument?  

You keep using the term "anti-Brown" and it's making it obvious that you're the one who really, really wants emotion to be a part of this discussion. It's fine with me if you're emotional about it, but just be honest about your perspective.

And you didn't pull any stats that destroyed any arguments and I already explained why. But here, I'll do it in a bit more detail as you're apparently pretty slow to catch on. I'll do it with a mix of cherry picking just like you employed because that seems to be the kind of stat usage you enjoy.

On 2/3/2019 at 5:47 PM, Dr. Beeper said:

This is lunacy.  Below are some comparisons that are apt (Number of x-win seasons and bowl appearances were excluded given the changes between their eras ).

Winning %: DXB .649; Mack .767 Texas WPCT in the 4 preceding years: DXB .475, Brown .622

National championships: DXB 0; Mack 1 Best teams in the country by standard power rating: DXB 1, Brown 1

Top 5 Finishes: DXB 1 in 10 seasons; Mack 5/16 Texas Top 5 finishes in history before said coach started: DXB 0, Brown 14

Top 10 Finishes: DXB 2/10; Mack 7/16 Texas Top 10 finishes before coach: DXB 0, Brown 19

Losing seasons: DXB 2 /10; Mack 1/16 Texas losing seasons in 4 preceding years: DXB 3, Brown 1

Conference championships: DXB 3/10; Mack 2/16 (this is literally the only criteria Dana wins on, and it's not a huge advantage). 

Number of losses by greater than 22 points: DXB 2 (1 of which was to a wartime military installation, not a real college team), Brown 8

Record against Oklahoma; DXB 7-2-1, Brown 7-9

Now, to be clear, I included some less than meaningful stats in here because you did the same. I also intentionally included stats heavily affected by the era in which they coached, hopefully the reason being obvious. The entire point is that context is important. The fact Bible fell short of a national title while Brown had one is so incredibly dependent on the context in which they took over the program that chalking that up as clear evidence Brown was better is absurd. Snyder fell short in 1998, too, but if some guy wins a title at Kansas State in 2062, that doesn't necessarily make it a better accomplishment than what Snyder has done. Same thing with winning percentage, top poll finishes, etc.

You claim to understand that historical context, but you clearly don't.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Huckleberry

[Vic Mackey 47157]

Why the fuck would I root for Tennessee's basketball program? Lmao. Not that I am rooting against him but definitely not actively rooting for him. I could not care less what he does at Tenn. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

On 2/2/2019 at 8:27 PM, Machinator said:

I'm definitely rooting for him to do well, knock off the likes of Duke, Kentucky, and go far in the tourney.

If they win it all though, we as Texas fans will never hear the end of it for firing Barnes, no matter how justified it seemed at the time. I'm not sure I'm ready for that after our football and baseball programs have just now pulled themselves out of tailspins and are no longer targets of national derision.

Honestly this is where I’m at. I originally voted that I don’t care because I have no problem with Barnes. For a stretch, I thought he was the best coach at Texas in all 3 major sports. Shit got stale, and a change needed to happen for both sides. He’s clearly a good coach.

But if you know anybody that is a Tennessee fan, they are fucking insufferable. Especially if they know you’re a Texas fan. We would never hear the end of how “fake UT didn’t appreciate Barnes the way the real UT does.” Fuck Tennessee. Since its become clear they have a championship caliber team, I’m kind of rooting for them to have a collapse of epic proportions. Doesn’t matter if it happens in the first round, or the championship game. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

Also how the fuck did this turn into Mack brown vs Dana Bible?!

[Goo Punch 4275]

38 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Barnes is a very good coach who was the best basketball coach we’ve ever had, although the bar on that isn’t all that high. 

But he had flaws. Chief among them in my opinion is he wanted every one of his players to play basketball like he apparently did, and if they didn’t he rode their ass until they did are at least attempted to do so. It’s not necessary for the entire team to play that way, in my opinion, especially when, for example, you have a once in a generation offense talent like say, Kevin Durant. 

Second biggest flaw was he would tighten up during the tournament and as a result so would his team. It remains to be seen whether that aspect has changed. 

But he recruited lights out and made all of his players better no doubt. I still remember how pissed off the UNC internet posters and fans were when Durant chose UT instead of them. UNC fans don’t know jack shit about football but they are pretty much experts on basketball players, kind of the opposite of UT fans. And they couldn’t believe it when Durant went to UT and were making all sort of aggy accusation of paid players, corruption, etc. It’s kind of like if Adrian Peterson or Earl Campbell had decided to go to Maryland. 

But what did Barnes do with a once in a generation talent like Durant, with also a NBA quality point guard in Augustine? Got blown out in the second round of the tournament. That was when I first started to doubt Barnes as a coach. The ultimate destruction of the 2011 team that went to number one then collapsed because Barnes hated it was basically the final straw for me.

So will I root for Tennessee? Hell no. Will I root for Barnes? Not really because he coaches for Tennessee. Still like the guy though, and he’s obviously a way better coach than the one we currently got right now. 

Where to begin. I guess with your first contention, that he didn't need to ride his players so hard, particularly when he has a once in a lifetime talent like KD. First off, Rick's style is Rick's style, and you take the good with the bad. The same hard coaching that made some guys shrink and other guys transfer also turned a 3-8 team with 7 scholarship players into Big XII champs; it turned PJ Tucker into the Conference POY; turned Royal Ivey into a player who'd become a tenured NBA vet; it's the same thing that's got a bunch players who nobody else wanted playing above their heads and holding the #1 rank in the country for a third straight week. So you can't just decide to enjoy it when it works and then slam him for it when it doesn't, and yet so many of our fans do. Rick has won (a lot) with his style everywhere he's been; his style being too harsh for a few doesn't outweigh how great it worked with the majority. 

Second, I'm not sure why you specify that he shouldn't have been so hard on KD. KD did pretty well at Texas as I recall, and didn't seem to be too hindered by Rick's coaching. Everybody misremembers that season, and every few months here when it gets brought up I have to remind them. That team was never very good, and absolutely did not deserve a four seed. Texas was ranked for two weeks early on, took some losses, and then spent the following three months unranked before surging into the rankings with two weeks left in the season. KD had captured the country's attention, we went on a 5 game win streak down the stretch (best win aside from a&m was vs #58 OU), and suddenly a team that spent 85% of the season unranked and had all of one good win was a 4 seed (aka top 16 team nationally).

That team beat St.John's (129 in KP) by one; they beat Centenary (256) 76-66 at home; they beat 17-15 LSU by one in OT; beat Baylor (107) by one, 68-67; lost at home to K State (57) and on the road to OSU (74); the team had one win against KenPom's top 58 teams, the double OT home win vs an A&M team that dropped 100 on us and beat us by 18 in College Station. We had plenty of poor performances throughout the season, but nobody remembers this because of Bill Simmons and revisionist history. That team played six guys, was all freshmen, had no depth, no experience, and tiny guards. That's "losing in the tourney 101". Not to mention that USC was good, featuring Nick Young and Taj Gibson. Now none of this is to dismiss the loss- it was a horrendous loss- Rick's worst loss in the tourney at Texas. But it was not this cigantic, colossal, unimaginable failure that it's been made out to be. Nobody will ever remember this correctly, but that's the truth of it. And beyond that, we lost KD, grew a year older, added a freshman Gary Johnson, and won 31 games and went to the Elite 8. That's so much more profound than the loss to USC, but nobody remembers it like that. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

Barnes is a very good coach who was the best basketball coach we’ve ever had, although the bar on that isn’t all that high. 

But he had flaws. Chief among them in my opinion is he wanted every one of his players to play basketball like he apparently did, and if they didn’t he rode their ass until they did are at least attempted to do so. It’s not necessary for the entire team to play that way, in my opinion, especially when, for example, you have a once in a generation offense talent like say, Kevin Durant. 

Second biggest flaw was he would tighten up during the tournament and as a result so would his team. It remains to be seen whether that aspect has changed. 

But he recruited lights out and made all of his players better no doubt. I still remember how pissed off the UNC internet posters and fans were when Durant chose UT instead of them. UNC fans don’t know jack shit about football but they are pretty much experts on basketball players, kind of the opposite of UT fans. And they couldn’t believe it when Durant went to UT and were making all sort of aggy accusation of paid players, corruption, etc. It’s kind of like if Adrian Peterson or Earl Campbell had decided to go to Maryland. 

But what did Barnes do with a once in a generation talent like Durant, with also a NBA quality point guard in Augustine? Got blown out in the second round of the tournament. That was when I first started to doubt Barnes as a coach. The ultimate destruction of the 2011 team that went to number one then collapsed because Barnes hated it was basically the final straw for me.

So will I root for Tennessee? Hell no. Will I root for Barnes? Not really because he coaches for Tennessee. Still like the guy though, and he’s obviously a way better coach than the one we currently got right now. 

Second, I'm not sure where you get that he and his teams "tightened up" in the tourney. The man went to five Sweet 16's in six years, and had we not lost PJ and LA half way through 2005 it almost surely would have been 6/6. Thats along with three Elite 8's in five years and a Final Four to boot. That's outstanding tourney performance. His latter teams didn't have tourney success, but that was because they were some combination of not that good and/or toxic chemistry wise. Nothing changed when the tourney rolled around, and none of those teams were the victims of major upsets. They just weren't that good. 

[Braff Zacklin 13664]

First, I'll apologize in advance to everyone else in this thread for participating in the derail. Unfortunately, I am compelled to do it one more time. I'll minimize the irritation with a spoiler tag.

On 2/3/2019 at 4:30 PM, Huckleberry said:

You claim to understand that historical context, but you clearly don't.

This wasn't directed toward me, but seeing as how it is one of the most blissfully self-unaware comments I've read on this site, it needed to be addressed because of the ensuing remark:

On 2/3/2019 at 4:30 PM, Huckleberry said:

Bible brought Texas and southwestern football from also-ran status to nationally competitive.

The second portion of this statement is patently false. Bible did wonders for the Texas program, but football in the Southwest was already nationally relevant prior to Bible's arrival at the Forty in 1937. (TCU and SMU both claimed the 1935 title, and 1939 went to aggy.)

Bible did spend most of the 20s coaching up aggy and did well there, but he left for Nebraska in 1929, so crediting him for the successes of SMU, TCU, and aggy nearly a decade later (if that's what you intended by your "southwestern football" comment) is more than a little ludicrous. It also should have absolutely no bearing on his ranking among Texas coaches since none of it occurred while he was at Texas.

Moving along ...

On 2/3/2019 at 4:30 PM, Huckleberry said:

I alluded to the objective rating systems that support the argument. I don't really feel like linking dozens of computer ratings sets but you can certainly find them pretty easily. Nobody wants me to longcat the thread with that.

The bulk of your case for Bible is based on subjective accomplishments like respect, impact, etc. (see second quote above). Those things cannot be objectively measured, and a stat monkey like you should know better than to claim otherwise. I don't doubt some Poindexter can write an algorithm that he thinks accurately rates such things, but he is chasing rainbows and might as well rank "who is most attractive" or "which foods taste best."

On 2/3/2019 at 4:30 PM, Huckleberry said:

it's making it obvious that you're the one who really, really wants emotion to be a part of this discussion. It's fine with me if you're emotional about it, but just be honest about your perspective.

Again, this wasn't addressed to me but I wanted to address it.

I've seen you say this to people multiple times now, and it strikes me as a bit ironic. Your posts might lack Beeper's profane frustration, but you're fooling yourself if you believe you're not being emotional, as well. Pridefully stubborn is absolutely an emotion. And resorting to blatant falsehoods and condescending insults (you don't understand the data, you don't understand the historical context, etc.) are also indications that you're emotionally invested.

Just a suggestion, but maybe consider heeding your own advice on being honest about your perspective.

Cheers!

 

[52-80 19252]

[Js1 85580]

13 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

Yeah this is the correct answer to this thread. Has nothing to do with Barnes, Derka, or what have you. 

Yep.

Will I actively root for Tennessee/Barnes?  All things being equal, nope.  I don't care, they aren't Texas.

Will I root for Tenn/Barnes if they're matched up against OU, Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, UNCheat? You bet your ass I will.  Will I be actively rooting for them in their first 2 matchups? Nah, baby.  #Chaos

[TwiceHorn 31537]

Because Texas hasn't been relevant in March in forever, I always have to pick some team after the first weekend and devise a rooting interest.  Rick's team is as good as any and better than most.

[Goo Punch 4275]

I don't understand the people who claim not to understand why anyone here would root for Tennessee. Several posters in this thread have incredulously asked why the fuck anyone would do that- really? Y'all really don't know? I find that hard to believe. 

But, at the small chance that y'all are seriously dumbfounded, I guess I'll explain. Some of us like Rick Barnes. Some of us always have. Rick is the best coach in program history by a million miles, and is responsible for, I dunno, 90% or more of our program's greatest accomplishments. Strangely, some of us still appreciate that and still like him and wish him well. Rick is in the group with DKR, Jody Conradt, Cliff Gustafson, Eddie Reese, and any other coach who brought unprecedented success to his or her respective program at Texas. The program was mediocre/middling/not respected nationally when he arrived, and he changed all of that. If you seriously can't understand why some people would appreciate that and root for his success after Texas then I'm not sure what to say.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

For me it’s literally just the Tennessee factor. He could be at auburn or Arizona or something, and I’d feel a lot better about rooting for him. I know too many insufferable, ridiculous, Tennessee fans. I know the ones on this board are fine, but I feel like some of y’all don’t know any Tennessee fans. I can’t be in the minority on this. 

[Js1 85580]

40 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

I don't understand the people who claim not to understand why anyone here would root for Tennessee. Several posters in this thread have incredulously asked why the fuck anyone would do that- really? Y'all really don't know? I find that hard to believe. 

But, at the small chance that y'all are seriously dumbfounded, I guess I'll explain. Some of us like Rick Barnes. Some of us always have. Rick is the best coach in program history by a million miles, and is responsible for, I dunno, 90% or more of our program's greatest accomplishments. Strangely, some of us still appreciate that and still like him and wish him well. Rick is in the group with DKR, Jody Conradt, Cliff Gustafson, Eddie Reese, and any other coach who brought unprecedented success to his or her respective program at Texas. The program was mediocre/middling/not respected nationally when he arrived, and he changed all of that. If you seriously can't understand why some people would appreciate that and root for his success after Texas then I'm not sure what to say.

I understand why you root for him. You have an undying loyalty to Rick Barnes.  I don't really give a flying flip about your unrequited boner for the man.  He's not the head coach of Texas anymore, so I don't really care whether he wins or loses or wins 7 titles or gets fired for cheating.  I root for MY alma mater's team, not some coach who can just as easily leave, get fired or retire.

Do I hope he does well? Sure, because he seems like a decent man who plays the game the right way (cough - Bill Self's whining about the NCAA instead of taking responsibility for recruiting DeSouza), won some good games at Texas, set some high expectations, failed to then live up to them and was asked to move on.  Same with Mack.  But neither are at Texas anymore.  So neither get my rooting interest.  I'm not a fair weather fan, jumping from program to program or franchise to franchise.

There's a huge disconnect between most people's "I wish him well" and Derka's "OH MY GOD WHY CAN'T YOU TEXAS FANS ROOT FOR TENNESSEE BECAUSE RICK BARNES IS THERE NOW?!?!!?!"  Isn't the whole reason why college sports > pro sports is because we have loyalty to the school we attended, instead of fair weathering between pro franchises?

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

If Mack Brown is the second best coach in Texas football history, I really question whether we belong on the top tier of football programs.  At least as it pertains to historical accomplishment. 

[Machinator 32099]

14 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

If Mack Brown is the second best coach in Texas football history, I really question whether we belong on the top tier of football programs.  At least as it pertains to historical accomplishment. 

We're in the bottom tier of blue bloods, but we are still the third-winningest program in football history. I posted this graphic on the football board, but the generally accepted group of blueblood programs can be seen here:

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

Very interesting. Have you done that w/different variables? The AP poll is after all a popularity contest and southern and southwestern programs operated at a disadvantage compared to midwestern programs for several decades. 

[Machinator 32099]

Just now, SwanderedTalent said:

Very interesting. Have you done that w/different variables? The AP poll is after all a popularity contest and southern and southwestern programs operated at a disadvantage compared to midwestern programs for several decades. 

It's not my analysis, but we're also among the top 8 in bowl wins, winning percentage, conference championships, consensus All-Americans, and first-round draft picks.

The only area where we lag the other blue bloods are MNCs, where even Nebraska has us beat though their blue-blood status has come into question.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

39 minutes ago, Machinator said:

We're in the bottom tier of blue bloods, but we are still the third-winningest program in football history. I posted this graphic on the football board, but the generally accepted group of blueblood programs can be seen here:

Man, fuck OU, but if you aren’t impressed by where they’re positioned on this chart, I don’t know what to tell you. The most consistent, top tier program in my lifetime of watching college football, and I just died a little bit on the inside for typing that. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

3 hours ago, Js1 said:

I understand why you root for him. You have an undying loyalty to Rick Barnes.  I don't really give a flying flip about your unrequited boner for the man.  He's not the head coach of Texas anymore, so I don't really care whether he wins or loses or wins 7 titles or gets fired for cheating.  I root for MY alma mater's team, not some coach who can just as easily leave, get fired or retire.

Do I hope he does well? Sure, because he seems like a decent man who plays the game the right way (cough - Bill Self's whining about the NCAA instead of taking responsibility for recruiting DeSouza), won some good games at Texas, set some high expectations, failed to then live up to them and was asked to move on.  Same with Mack.  But neither are at Texas anymore.  So neither get my rooting interest.  I'm not a fair weather fan, jumping from program to program or franchise to franchise.

There's a huge disconnect between most people's "I wish him well" and Derka's "OH MY GOD WHY CAN'T YOU TEXAS FANS ROOT FOR TENNESSEE BECAUSE RICK BARNES IS THERE NOW?!?!!?!"  Isn't the whole reason why college sports > pro sports is because we have loyalty to the school we attended, instead of fair weathering between pro franchises?

yeah i'm the one with the huge disconnect. jlaw.gif 

This shit right here: "OH MY GOD WHY CAN'T YOU TEXAS FANS ROOT FOR TENNESSEE BECAUSE RICK BARNES IS THERE NOW?!?!!?!" 

is so fucking ridiculous I shouldn't even be responding to it, but apparently some people agree with you so here we go.

Name one time I've said anything remotely similar to that. You can't. Because I haven't. You are making up some wild shit that i've never once approached saying and passing it off as fact. That's fucking retarded. Let's keep this discussion based on reality, and not on some fucking fantastical idea where i'm imploring people to root for a coach who doesn't coach their team. fucking christ what a load of horseshit.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Goo Punch

[Goo Punch 4275]

"I don't understand how some of you don't understand why some of us still root for him" 

translates in your brain to:

"OH MY GOD WHY CAN'T YOU TEXAS FANS ROOT FOR TENNESSEE BECAUSE RICK BARNES IS THERE NOW?!?!!?!" 

nah. fuck that. and fuck you for taking it there. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

yeah, let's keep this going, because i'm fucking pissed off right now at how goddamn stupid this baiting shit is. Quote:

"If you seriously can't understand why some people would appreciate that and root for his success after Texas then I'm not sure what to say."

THAT, translates in your brain to you, as this:

"OH MY GOD WHY CAN'T YOU TEXAS FANS ROOT FOR TENNESSEE BECAUSE RICK BARNES IS THERE NOW?!?!!?!" 

nah. not buying it. once again, go fuck yourself @Js1 for taking this there. zero percent chance you actually interpreted my post that way, 100% chance you're just being an asshole because it irritates you that I still root for Rick. Pathetic.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Goo Punch

[Js1 85580]

Yes, it so personally irritates me what you do with your private life and Rick Barnes fandom.  I lay in bed and cry because Rick won't return your phone calls and text messages and love letters and people on Surly are so mean to you and your high school obsession with Rick Barnes. 

Keep on victiming. Woe is Derka. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

5 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Yes, it so personally irritates me what you do with your private life and Rick Barnes fandom.  I lay in bed and cry because Rick won't return your phone calls and text messages and love letters and people on Surly are so mean to you and your high school obsession with Rick Barnes. 

Keep on victiming. Woe is Derka. 

there's that razor sharp brain of yours again. me being pissed at your bullshit makes me a victim? again, jlaw.gif. you absolutely are peeved that I still root for Rick Barnes, and you haven't been able to hide it lately. I made a post about him yesterday that got multiple pos reps and you angrily quoted me with some similar bullshit to the shit you're spewing in here. you're the victim, crying every time you see his name mentioned. don't project that shit onto me, just own your own shit dude.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Goo Punch

[Goo Punch 4275]

Also, let's recap my loyalty to Rick Barnes for the record. This whole "high school crush on Rick Barnes" shit is so off base it's pathetic. You've been around enough to know better, but for those who don't know, here's why I'm personally still passionate about the guy, not that I ever would or ever have expected anyone else to feel the same:

My dad was the basketball SID at Texas in the 80's and 90's, and worked with Texas athletics from the 70's up until just about 2000. Texas basketball is my first love, because I grew up within the program. I'm no different than Rob Lanier's kids, or Eddie Oren's kids, or Todd Wright's kids. My love for this program goes beyond what yours does. My love for this program has been instilled in me my entire life. I was hanging out at UT practices from the time I could walk, and I maintain friendships with a ton of former players and coaches to this day. If you can't wrap your head around why a kid who grew up in my circumstances would be so fanatical about the program and it's best ever coach, you just don't want to.

Beyond that, my connection to the program and to Rick Barnes himself continued even after my dad left UT. During Rick's first year here Cooley Pavilion was under construction, so we had the team come practice at my school. I was there, at every practice during Rick's first year, playing one on one with his son Nick Barnes, talking to Gabe Muoneke, Chris Mihm, and Kris Clack on a daily basis. I knew the man from the first day he arrived in Austin, and proceeded to watch him take the thing that I loved the most in my life and make it 100x better, and I watched it from ground zero. I was there, day to day, a part of the program, happier than I'd ever been to be involved with UT basketball.

Then, when things went south, I had to endure years of people on the internet trashing and destroying this man who I had looked up to and considered a role model or an idol. Beyond that, during Rick's final five years or so Todd Wright's kids attended my school, where his wife was also a teacher. My mom taught both of his daughters and had them in her home room. His son was one of my kids for an entire year, and his entire family are basically the greatest people you'll ever meet. Truly wonderful people. Todd Wright is to this day my mentor, and his wife is one of my mom's best friends, and someone who I still talk to weekly. Our families will remain close regardless of geography, so this shit goes beyond normal fandom.

When our program started going south and the angry mob came out with torches and pitchforks, every single day we all had to live wondering if the coaches and their families were going to lose their jobs and have to move to a new city; and that's exactly what ended up happening. It was a tough time for the families of the coaching staff, and it was a tough time for me and my family as well, as this was much more than just some strangers who we rooted for- these were our long time friends and one time idols who were being destroyed online by our fans, who then got fired and forced to uproot their lives after spending 17+ years here in Austin. All of Coach Wright's kids were born and raised in Austin, Texas, until one day they were uprooted from everything they'd known and forced to move to Philly. So yeah, I took that hard.

Now Coach Wright is thriving in Philly and the 76ers are my NBA team. Now Coach Barnes and Coach Lanier and their families are in Knoxville where they are thriving and once again on top. You're goddamn right that makes me happy. You're goddamn right I'm rooting for them. But you've got me all the way fucked up with this "high school crush on Rick Barnes" shit, and this fantastical idea that I've been imploring everyone else to feel the same way, or that i'm losing my shit on people who don't root for him. That's a bunch of made up bullshit, invented by you because you're irritated that I still mention his name around here. Well you're gonna have to get over it, because I'm not going to stop rooting for him, and I'm not going to stop bringing his name up when it's relevant. And please, do not ever in your life again trivialize my feelings for people who I know personally and who I lived and worked with through the roughest time of their professional lives. You don't have to feel the same way as I do, but you will damn sure respect why I feel the way I do, and cut it out with this high school drama bullshit you're spewing. You can't handle it? Put me on ignore then. But don't trivialize my feelings as if I don't have a whole lot more invested in this situation than you do, or like I have no legit reasons to still support our former coaches and their families. Hell, I rung in the new year this year with Reggie Freeman (among others), and when someone was asking us about how we'd known each other so long despite the age and background difference, the answer was simple: "Not a lot of us around here really really fuck with Texas basketball like we do. There's only a few of us in Austin. It's a family." I take that to heart. Deal with it. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Goo Punch

[Henry Hill 3156]

Derka fucks with Texas basketball. I learned something new today.

[Slacks 6862]

I know what this thread needs...

[Michael Knight 12995]

On 2/5/2019 at 9:19 AM, Goo Punch said:

I don't understand the people who claim not to understand why anyone here would root for Tennessee. Several posters in this thread have incredulously asked why the fuck anyone would do that- really? Y'all really don't know? I find that hard to believe. 

But, at the small chance that y'all are seriously dumbfounded, I guess I'll explain. Some of us like Rick Barnes. Some of us always have. Rick is the best coach in program history by a million miles, and is responsible for, I dunno, 90% or more of our program's greatest accomplishments. Strangely, some of us still appreciate that and still like him and wish him well. Rick is in the group with DKR, Jody Conradt, Cliff Gustafson, Eddie Reese, and any other coach who brought unprecedented success to his or her respective program at Texas. The program was mediocre/middling/not respected nationally when he arrived, and he changed all of that. If you seriously can't understand why some people would appreciate that and root for his success after Texas then I'm not sure what to say.

Some of us actually went to this school and aren't just fans of whatever coach they like. We root for the school, not the coach and not the player. His success does nothing for Texas.

[Goo Punch 4275]

46 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

Some of us actually went to this school and aren't just fans of whatever coach they like. We root for the school, not the coach and not the player. His success does nothing for Texas.

Kevin Durant's championships and MVPs in the NBA do nothing for Texas, and yet countless Texas fans and alumni root for his success. Nothing VY did in Nashville affected Texas football and yet millions never of fans and alumni rooted for him. Essentially every Texas fan I know was rooting very hard for Major Applewhite when he started his coaching career. Should I keep going?

Now stop right there before you even say it- you're going to tell me that it's an apples and oranges comparison because unlike the Titans and Dubs, Tennessee and Texas "are competitors". No we aren't. If we were then this thread wouldn't exist, because nobody, including me, would be rooting for Tennessee to win the national championship if there were even a 1% chance that Texas could do the same.

Nobody here cares or doesn't understand if you aren't rooting for Tennessee, but pretending that there's no conceivable reason for anyone to do so is just silly. Fun team, lowly recruited players playing above their ceiling, not a traditional power, coached by Rick Barnes and Rob Lanier. Don't act like you can't comprehend why some would root for them.

 

Edited February 9, 2019 by Goo Punch

[Michael Knight 12995]

7 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

Kevin Durant's championships and MVPs in the NBA do nothing for Texas, and yet countless Texas fans and alumni root for his success. Nothing VY did in Nashville affected Texas football and yet millions never of fans and alumni rooted for him. Essentially every Texas fan I know was rooting very hard for Major Applewhite when he started his coaching career. Should I keep going?

Now stop right there before you even say it- you're going to tell me that it's an apples and oranges comparison because unlike the Titans and Dubs, Tennessee and Texas "are competitors". No we aren't. If we were then this thread wouldn't exist, because nobody, including me, would be rooting for Tennessee to win the national championship if there were even a 1% chance that Texas could do the same.

Nobody here cares or doesn't understand if you aren't rooting for Tennessee, but pretending that there's no conceivable reason for anyone to do so is just silly. Fun team, lowly recruited players playing above their ceiling, not a traditional power, coached by Rick Barnes and Rob Lanier. Don't act like you can't comprehend why some would root for them.

 

Durant and Vince are Longhorns and always will be. We root for Longhorns, even Roger Clemens. Rick Barnes is a competitor. You want to find Tennessee fans maybe you should frequent their boards

Edited February 9, 2019 by Michael Knight

[Machinator 32099]

9 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

Durant and Vince are Longhorns and always will be. We root for Longhorns, even Roger Clemens. Rick Barnes is a competitor. You want to find Tennessee fans maybe you should frequent their boards

Look, I don't idolize Rick like some do but I think it's reasonable for people to root for him, and it's equally reasonable for people to not care about how he does outside Texas.

[Goo Punch 4275]

56 minutes ago, Machinator said:

Look, I don't idolize Rick like some do but I think it's reasonable for people to root for him, and it's equally reasonable for people to not care about how he does outside Texas.

that's all i'm saying.